Insights To Live By
This perfect blend of substance, fun and inspiration uncovers new pearls of wisdom to put into action. We all have our Insights to Live By. Be they life lessons, credos, mantras, guiding principles or by any other name, these are those core values most often shared to positively impact others. Hosted by Matt Zinman, author of Z-isms, the show features both solo and guest episodes. Matt’s book, podcast, courses and speaking engagements represent his devotion as a difference-maker to personally enrich the lives of at least 25 million people by 2030. Show guests come from all walks of life. These may be...
EPISODE 122 [GUEST] – How Underdogs Win: Leading with a Healthy Mindset (Mike Hartman)
What does it take for an underdog to win their face-off against adversity? Former NHL enforcer and Stanley Cup winner Mike Hartman joins the show to share his journey from house league long shot to professional athlete and how mindset made all the difference. Now as founder of the Healthy Mindset App, Mike is guiding both corporate and professional athletes to lead with purpose and mental toughness. He’s also trained an AI version of himself to deliver real-time coaching anytime, anywhere. With Matt also a lifelong player, the episode includes behind-the-scenes moments with Gretzky, leadership insights from Messier, an...
EPISODE 121 [guests]: Thrive or Survive: HR’s New AI Reality with Jason Walker and Rey Ramirez
As the mind-boggling pace of AI continues, how can a self-respecting HR professional keep pace? More to the point, how can one find ways to thrive rather than just survive or, worse yet, become irrelevant? Joining the show for this powerful conversation, Jason Walker and Rey Ramirez, co-founders of Thrive HR Consulting, unpack how artificial intelligence is reshaping everything from recruitment and workforce planning to learning and development along with the increasing role of AI for mental health support. We take on the rise of agentic AI and HR chatbots, job displacement and how professionals can stay ahead by...
EPISODE 120 [guest] - Shifting from Fear to Fire with Heather Hansen O'Neill
In this high-energy episode, award-winning speaker, TEDx powerhouse, and leadership igniter Heather Hansen O’Neill talks about how to stop letting fear run the show and start leading with fire through purpose, passion, and action. From literally flying on the trapeze to metaphorically helping leaders leap into their fullest potential, Heather shares her unconventional path to becoming a best-selling author, adventurer and creator of the Elements of Adventure framework. We explore how to build resilience through uncertainty, inspire teams in the face of apathy and reframe leadership as a human-first, joy-driven experience. Whether you're a team leader, entrepreneur, or so...
EPISODE 119: [guest] Being a Limitless Leader with Dr. Mary Hemphill
What does it take to become a truly limitless leader? Joining the show is Dr. Mary Hemphill, a global leadership strategist and founder of The Limitless Leader. Mary shares game-changing insights about self-leadership, human-centered growth, and the courage to unlearn what no longer serves us. From conducting a “human audit” of your life to redefining the role of tech in personal well-being, she offers a powerful framework to help leaders thrive in all areas of life.
00:07 – Welcome & Guest Intro
Matt welcomes listeners and introduces Dr. Mary Hemphill and her background.
01:22 – Setting the Tone
Mary sha...
The Audiobook - Z-isms: Insights to Live By

BOOK CAPSULE: Richly authentic, deeply personal and highly motivating, Z-isms offers new ways to better ourselves, our experiences and our encounters.
Matt keeps it casual, as though in private conversation with readers, freely sharing his life experiences as an entrepreneur, athlete, single parent, caregiver and nonprofit founder with practical insights and ways to help navigate and overcome common challenges we all face.
TRACKS BY CHAPTER:
00:17 - BACKSTORY
06:41 - INTRODUCTION
22:46 - EARNED CONFIDENCE
57:57 - BE AWARE OF SPIDERS
1:40:34 - A DOSE OF PREVENTION
2:22:44 - PERCEPTION IS
3:00:11 - MINDING...
EPISODE 118 [solo]: Z-isms 5th Anniversary Special
The show is BACK! Following a record hiatus, Matt reemerges to explain where he’s been, what’s happened since, what’s occurring now and what lies ahead. These include his relocation, progress with THE BRIGHT SIDE (newsletter for LinkedIn), two high-profile upcoming presentations, show plans for 2025-2026, and a special announcement in concert with Z-isms turning 5. The reveal: the audiobook is about to grace the podcast.
0:00 – The ITLB Sabbatical
1:30 – COVID Reflections
2:32 – The Queen City
4:20 – Looking on The Bright Side
6:43 – The Big Events
9:18 – Anniversary Announcement
10:25 – Matt’s Focus
1...
ON BREAK - A Few Special Announcements and Insights
Though the show is on break until Fall, there’s no shortage of opportunity to enjoy the old and new. This brief recording gets right to the point with some special announcements and recommendations to navigate whatever content and format you like most. See you soon – ENJOY!
EPISODE 117 [solo]: THE BRIGHT SIDE Audio Newsletter v2
https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-bright-side-7153431826336759809/
EPISODE 116 [guest] – Being an Effective Presenter with Shawn Doyle
Few professionals enjoy giving presentations. In fact, most people find public speaking to be anxiety-ridden, yet necessary to advance their career. Here to help make that happen is Shawn Doyle, a Certified Professional Speaker (CSP), Executive Coach and a prolific author of 24 motivational books. He is also a contributing writer for Inc. Magazine, The Huffington Post, and Entrepreneur Magazine. Shawn’s “Presentation Power” training program provides sage insights that embody his decades of experience in serving some of the world’s leading companies. If you speak, you’ll be glad you listened.
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:50 – Introduction...
EPISODE 115 [guest]: Accessing Mental Healthcare in a Broken System with Dr. Alice Feller
The show takes an investigative yet practical slant in the heart of Mental Health Month. Joining the conversation is Dr. Alice Feller, author of the newly released book, “American Madness: Fighting for Patients in a Broken Mental Health System.” She’s seen it all through five decades of work within hospital wards, private practice, public clinics and beyond. Among that discussed: knowing when to act, medication management, telehealth and the importance of families. If you or a loved one are – or at some point may be – in need of care, you’ll find some essential answers here.
EPISODE 114: [guest] Elevating Your Workplace Vibes with Hanan Harb Sahourieh
Are you ready to Vibe-UP? Joining the conversation is friend of the show, Hanan Harb Sahourieh. She’s a Content Marketing and Learning Strategist as well as the author of her new book, "Everybody, Be Cool!" (Amazon link and Review below). It features six exclusive personal development secrets turned easy-to-digest lessons to spark your insight, compassion, and curiosity. You can apply these lessons to develop yourself-in the workplace and life. Elevate YOURSELF by opening your mind to new possibilities and ways of being-at work and home.
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:55 – Birthing the Book
2:15 – Workplace Matter...
EPISODE 113 [guest] Monetizing the Microphone with Antoniette Roze
What does it take to unleash your speaking potential? How do you go from being a hidden gem to a household name while impacting people’s lives? Here with those answers and more is powerhouse speaker agent and success architect, Antoniette Roze. She’s also the host of the SPEAKPact podcast and leads a community of influencers to land dream stages and live their dream life. With unselfish vulnerability, Antoniette then shares her recovery story that is nothing short of miracle and has inspired her as a difference-maker for the wellbeing of others. And, as is easy to expect, she...
EPISODE 112 [guest]: Hacking Your Subconscious with Tina-Nomad Higgens
What does it take to unleash the latent power of the human mind? Given her proven outcomes with renowned athletes, musicians, millionaires (and billionaires), Tina-Nomad Higgens may well be the most successful subconscious biohacker and reprogrammer in the world. As an amplifier and actualizer of human potential, she tailors her work in mind mastery for an extensive array of areas, including: anxiety, depression, trauma, fears/phobias, memory/recall, addictions, capabilities (motivation, focus), habits (e.g., nail-biting), confidence and self-esteem, skill improvement, weight loss, medical issues, and much more. Join the conversation with your ultimate guide in the journey towards...
EPISODE 111 [solo]: The Bright Side Audio Newsletter v1
Welcome to the first installment of the audio version of The Bright Side, covering the first 7 issues of Matt’s newsletter on LinkedIn. These are: The 2 Skills to Enrich Your Life for Good; The Pursuit of Happierness; The Power of Earned Confidence; Outsmarting Your Worries and Assumptions; Trusting Your Intuition to Tame Overthinking; Putting Your Perception into Perspective; and, Kindness Pays Forward.
The Bright Side embodies an abridged version of some of the key concepts from the Z-isms book and courses to make them most accessible, consumable and practical intended to improve mindset, wellbeing and personal effectiveness. If...
EPISODE 110: Creating Meaning at Work with Steve Van Valin
Does your company embody a culture that’s innovative, agile and energized and what does it take to do? Joining the show to answer those questions and share his insights is the founder of Culturology, Steve Van Valin. He’s a culture-shaping strategist, engagement expert and author of the new book, “The Search for Meaning at Work, Unleashing the Hidden Power of Purpose to Engage Your Workforce.” For 14 years, Steve led the culture initiatives at QVC to make collaboration their ultimate strategic advantage. Here we discuss amplifiers of meaning to create cohesiveness, especially for hybrid cultures to thrive.
TOPIC...
EPISODE 109 [guest]: Practical Productivity with Sarah Ohanesian
If you’re seeking lots of tangible tips to improve productivity and bring more joy to your work, you’ll discovery them in this ‘must listen’ conversation with Sarah Ohanesian, a keynote speaker and the founder of SO Productive. When everything feels urgent and overwhelming, Sarah shares how to get out of survival mode and into greatness. Put another way, she explains how to "Command the Chaos" to feel accomplished, fulfilled, and joyful every day. Within these insights are sub-topics about avoiding burnout, adapting for neurodiversity and creating space to stay on top of priorities.
TOPIC TIME CODES
EPISODE 108 [guest]: Forging Genuine Connections with Rob Lawless
It’s ironic. Our world is more connected than ever and yet loneliness has reached epidemic proportions. So, what does take to forge genuine connections? Rob Lawless is on a mission to find out. He’s set an intention to spend 1 hour, 1-on-1 with 10,000 different people. As the founder of Robs10kFriends, he’s already met more than 6,000 people from all walks of life across nearly 90+ countries. Through it all, Rob believes that every human interaction holds the potential to change lives. Genuine connections are about treating interactions as an experience rather than a transaction and creating empathy through conver...
EPISODE 107 [guest] On the Move at Work with Laura Putnam
We are more creatures of culture than we are of habit. This means a healthy workplace is less about self-care as it is team-care. Joining the show to delve into the nuances of what matters most is Laura Putnam. She’s the Founder and CEO of Motion Infusion and creator of a leadership training program, “Managers on the Move.” Laura works with hundreds of companies to infuse a culture of wellness and, by extension, a culture of motion. In addition to insights of value to any wellness-devoted employer, this conversation provides a wealth of guidance for individuals willing to do a l...
EPISODE 106 [guest] Beating Burnout for Good with Dr. Sharon Grossman
Optimize your life. She’s an international keynote speaker and the founder of the Warrior Institute, but Dr. Sharon Grossman is known as The Burnout Doc. She also hosts the "Decode Your Burnout" podcast and is the best-selling author of “The 7E Solution to Burnout: Transforming High Achievers from Exhausted to Extraordinary.” Needless to say, Sharon is the ideal guest to provide insights about ways to beat burnout – be that through recovery or prevention. For that, we explore how to be productive without overwhelm, boost energy by shifting mindset and transform anxiety into resilience. Whether it’s healthy habits, healthy bo...
Episode 105 [guest] Mastering Your Superpowers with Alice Inoue
In a world where clarity often seems elusive, Alice Inoue stands as a beacon of wisdom and guidance, inspiring us all to navigate life's challenges with grace, courage, and happiness. With her nine groundbreaking books, Alice's insights have become a staple for those seeking guidance. Alice’s latest book, “Mastering Your Superpowers,” combined with its sophisticated archetypes assessment, sets a new standard for personal clarity and more productive interactions. She is also the founder of Happiness U, an educational establishment that provides answers and solutions to the everyday challenges that individuals and organizations face. With its integrated approach promoting the ha...
EPISODE 104 [guest] Aging Youthfully – The Swiss Way
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:42 – Introduction
1:50 – Ellen
3:12 – Dominique
5:55 – Origin Story
8:50 – Swiss Secrets
13:20 – The Five Dimensions
13:45 – The Intellectual Dimension
16:00 - The Physical Dimension
18:40 – Keys to Happiness
19:53 - The Emotional Dimension
22:35 - The Spiritual Dimension
26:10 - The Financial Dimension
29:10 – The Happiness Index
31:20 – 50+ Entrepreneurship
33:33 – How Gears Interact
36:0...
EPISODE 103 [guest]: Fearless Leadership with Adrian Koehler
TOPIC TIME CODES
1:35 – Introduction
2:45 – Eclectic Experiences
5:55 – Being fearless with fearless leaders
9:10 – Fierce advocacy
13:10 – Making conversations meaningful
19:01 – Pinpointing pain points
24:40 – Negotiating styles
28:33 – Getting out of your own way
30:02 – Gut checks
36:06 – Insights about Adrian
39:09 – Adrian’s Insights to Live By
47:10 – Final thoughts
SOURCES:
https://takenewground.com/
https://www.instagram.com/adrian.k/
http...
EPISODE 102 [guest] Authentic Networking with Ivan Misner
TOPIC TIME CODES:
0:59 – Introduction
2:12 – Entrepreneurial Beginnings (The Lollipop Story)
4:28 – Bring BNI to Life
8:01 – Push Marketing vs. Pull Marketing
9:33 – Ground-Level BNI Networking
13:23 – Diversifying Your Networking Portfolio
17:35 – The Networking Disconnect
19:10 – The VCP Process (Visibility, Credibility, Profitability)
20:25 – The Death of Cold Selling
23:35 – Providing a Value-Add
26:20 – In-depth Networking
28:40 – Future Astronaut
32:00 – Branson Insights
33:40 – Insights A...
EPISODE 101 [guest]: A New Era of Talent Development with Lorri Freifeld
TOPIC TIME CODES
1:21 – A Day in the Life
2:40 – Awards Acumen
6:48 – Distinguishing Greatness
9:45 – The Pendulum Swings
12:01 – post-Pandemic
14:02 – World-Class Training Programs
17:58 – Holistic Shift
20:25 – May Leadership Development issue
22:30 – Health and Wellness Shortfalls
24:34 – Modeling Empathy Leaders
28:40 – A.I. Impact on Training (ChatGBT)
32:32 – Insights About Lorri
35:35 – Lorri’s Insights to Live By
42:10 – Final Thoughts
...
EPISODE 100 [solo]: Z-isms 3.0: Give Yourself a Mindset Reset
TOPIC TIME CODES:
1:00 – Setting the Bar
2:15 – Taming Your Distractions
4:24 – High Praise
9:22 – WellBeing Reset
11:45 – Commercial Break: Abundant Mindset
18:28 – Z-isms 3.0: Mind Your Mindset
22:00 - Mindfulness
25:30 – The BIG Idea (Ep. 31)
27:30 – What’s Different?
29:55 - Matt’s Most Daring Feat
31:10 – No Substitute for Experience
32:45 – Lived Experiences
34:35 – Ground Requests (not rules)
36:00 – ZU/Potential Learned Outcomes
37:55 – 3 Pursuits for Happierness
38:34 – Filters that Shape Reality
50:30 – 3 Forces of Distraction
53:52 – 3 Mindset Reset Life Skills
SOURCES
MattZinman.co...
EPISODE 99 [guest] Leveling Up Your Career with Andy Storch
0:00 - Introduction
4:11 - Andy’s Background
7:17 - Talent Development
13:25 - Managerial Support
17:33 - Wellness Programming
24:09 - Taking Control of your Career
34:25 - Insights about Andy
39:07 - Andy’s Insights to Live By
46:10 - Final Thoughts
SOURCES
https://andystorch.com/
https://tdtt.us/ (Talent Development Think Tank)
Ownyourcareerownyourlife.com (Andy’s book)
SOCIAL MEDIA
IG: @andy_storch
Twitter: @andystorch
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andystorch/
EPISODE 98 [solo]: Be Aware of Spiders (UPDATED ENCORE)
Time Code Topics
1:40 – Commemoration
4:20 – Personal Invitation to Loyal Listeners
5:30 – Impacting Lives
6:55 – Reflections
9:47 – Practical Guidance (Hater Handler)
12:29 – Reinforce Your Armor
13: 40 – The Hater Repeller
16:35 – The Greatest Accomplishment
18:22 - Interaction challenges
22:34 - A Certain Character Trait
28:12 - Identifying Spiders
31:39 - In the Workplace
34:22 - Now What?
38:47 - “Spider Senses” Exercise
EPISODE 97 [guest]: Choosing Words Wisely with Stacey Hanke
TOPIC TIME CODES:
00:43 - Introduction
2:40 - Recent shifts in influence and communication
6:20 - Creating a personalized virtual space
13:22 - Practicing influence
23:33 - Intentional communication
31: 45 - Personal branding
40:36 - Improving Zoom presence
42:00 - Insights about Stacey
44:32 - Stacey’s Insights to Live By
50:52 - Self-kindness matters (Matt)
52:34 - Final thoughts
SOURCES:
https://staceyhankeinc.com
https://www.facebook.com/StaceyHankeInc?ref=hl
https://twitter.com/StaceyHankeInc
https://www.youtube.com/sta...
EPISODE 96 [GUEST]: Instilling Psychological Safety with Newton Cheng
TOPIC TIME CODES:
1:06 - Introduction
6:22 - Switching careers from engineering to health and wellness
10:05 - Supporting health and wellness at Google
15:20 - The loneliness epidemic and human connectivity
21:23 - Being a leader beyond Google
24:41 - Opening up about mental health
30:42 - Companies preventing burnout
35:48 - Problem-led change
39:04 - Leadership and change
41:03 - Newton’s Insights to live by
47:52 - Final thoughts
SOURCES:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/newtoncheng/
https://www.instagram.com/ne...
EPISODE 95 [guest] Being Intentionally Present with Joel Bennett
TOPIC TIME CODES
00:23 - Introduction
2:03 - Neurotheology
4:19 - Organizational Wellness and Learning Systems (OWLS)
7:37 - The Connoisseur of Time (book discussion)
11:13 - Visualization and intention of time
19:22 - Soul in cultures
25:47 - Time and wellbeing
36:55 - Intentional presence
41:24 - Joel’s Insights to Live By
46:10 - Insights About Joel
48:14 - Final thoughts
SOURCES:
SITES:
www.presencequest.life
https://organizationalwellness.com/
SOCIAL MEDIA:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/d...
EPISODE 94 (GUEST): Putting the “H” Back into HR with Mindy Honcoop
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:50 - Introduction
2:28 - Reshaping HR leaders
6:23 - Advising Companies with HR
7:20 - Breaking into the HR Technology Community
9:46 - Future of Work and Workplace Wellbeing
13:58 - Addressing Employee Needs
17:38 - Counseling for Employee Needs
23:13 - Wellness and Connection
28:50- Insights about Mindy
33:00- Mindy’s Insights to Live By
39:20 - “It’s a Beautiful Day”
40:10 - Final Thoughts
SOURCES:
SM Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindyhoncoop...
HOLIDAY BREAK: RETURNING 1/11/23
Episode 93 [guest] Aligning with Your Soul with Kute Blackson
TOPIC TIME CODES
1:49 - Early Start
3:36 - Raised with a Sense of Possibility
5:30 - Choosing his own path
8:20 - Pursuing his Dream
10:00 - Kute’s Big Break
11:41 - Aligning with Your Soul
13:10 - Being Still to Listen
18:22 - The Magic of Surrender
22:48 - Change since the pandemic
25:58 - Fear and surrender
30:08 - Being true to yourself
33:21- Insights about Kute
40:44 - Kute’s Insights to Live By
48:16 - Final Thoughts
SOURCES...
EPISODE 92 [guest]: Remedying Burnout for Good with Julie Turney
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:58 - Introduction
3:00 - HR Career and Trends
7:30 - The Burnout Epidemic
13:24 - Handling Burnout
16:20 - The Values Shift at Work
22:30 - Burnout and HR
28:40 - Coaching Endeavors
35:46 - Insights about Julie
39:12 - Julie’s Insights to live by
SOURCES:
www.hratheart.co
https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjulieturney/
https://www.instagram.com/iamjulieturney/
Episode 91 [guest] - Why Culture Wins with Delise Simmons
TOPIC TIME CODES
1:30 – Delise’s endeavors
2:50 – New Beginnings at JetBlue
4:10 – The Epitome of Culture
5:30 – PeopleInk – charting values and culture
8:00 – Burnout Factors
10:35 – Culture as a Competitive Advantage
13:00 – Validation Metrics with Walmart Canada
15:15 – Putting Data into Action
19:30 – Wellbeing at the Forefront
22:00 – Achieving Organizational Alignment
23:30 – Middle Management and Mental Wellness
26:00 – Equipping People to Solve
27:40 – Culture Defined
29:35 – Insights About Delise
32:27 - Delise’s 1st Insight to Live By
34:40 – Delise’s 2nd Insight to Live By
37:20 - Delise’s 3rd Insight to Live By
41:44 – A Shared Passion with Matt
44:39 – Wrap Up
EPISODE 90 [guest] Harnessing Wisdom for Wellbeing & Connection
TOPIC TRANSITION TIME CODES
0:30 - Introduction
1:40 - What is LifeGuides
4:14 - Derek's Entrepreneurial Journey
9:00 - High Praise Leader
12:03 - A CEO’s Day Management
16:30 - LifeGuides’ Goals and Resources
22:05 - Handling Sales/Marketing
26:45 - The Essence of LifeGuides
29:10 - How to Become a LifeGuide
35:53 - Insights About Derek
39:45 - Derek's First Insight to Live By
43:52 - Derek's Second Insight to Live By
46:40 - Derek's Third Insight to Live By
49:23 - Wrap-up
SOURCES
www.lifeguides.com
@LifeGuidesNow
EPISODE 89 [guest]: Empowering Women Making a Difference with Maricella Herrara
TOPIC TRANSITION TIMES
1:00 - Introducing Maricella
2:10 - What is Ellevate Network
5:00 - Becoming part of the Ellevate community
7:20 - The Evolution of ERG’s
13:00 - Taking a stance: Roe v. Wade and women's rights
18:30 - Responsibility to address social issues
24:00 - Intersection between wellbeing, professional development and purpose
29:10 - Insights about Maricella
32:10 - Maricela's Insights To Live By
41:18 - Revisiting the Wheel of Insights
42:20 - Final thoughts
45:20 - Goodbye
SOURCES:
https://ww...
EPISODE 88 [SOLO] Matt’s Favorite Episodes
TOPIC TIME CODES
0:20 - Introduction
1:40 - Taking a break
2:10 - The shift of the show
4:00 - Defining Z-isms
4:40 - 8 is infinity
5:20 - Number 8 in Numerology
6:53 - Life Path Number 8
8:00 - Enneagram 8
10:33 - A certain ring to it
12:00 - Getting steered toward starting a podcast
13:10 - Audiobook
13:50 - Journey into Publishing
14:30 - Harnessing Earned Confidence for Life Enrichment
15:07 - Be Aware Of Spiders
15:45 - A Dose of Prevention
16:13...
Episode 87 [guest]: Transforming Organizations with Matt Burns
CONVERSATION TOPIC TIME CODES:
1:00 - Introduction
1:38 - Matt’s Career Journey
3:39 - Tracking Trends and Technology with BentoHR
7:48 - Challenges of Remote Work/ Disconnecting from Remote Work
13:45 - Resignation Uproar
16:25 - Generational Shift in the Workplace
19:00 - Technology and Work Life Balance
20:37 - Employee Lifetime Value
25:17- Employers Assess Value of Employee (KPIs)
28:48 - Wellbeing in the Workplace
34:20 - Statistics about Employee Engagement
37:17 - Helping Creating Better Technology AND Wellness
38:45 - Insights About Ma...
EPISODE 86 [guest]: Reimagining Workplace Wellbeing with Dr. Jessica Grossmeier
TOPIC TIME CODES:
0:40 - Introduction
2:20 - More about Jessica
4:50 - Workplace Well-being during Covid
6:00 - Are Companies actually Supporting Workplace Well-being?
7:08 - Growth in Strategy Levels for Well-being
8:15 - Defining the Evolution of Workplace Well-Being
11:30 - Organizations Acknowledging Mental Well-Being
17:45 - Creating a Safe Environment
19:4 5 - Jessica’s Groundbreaking Book
22:50 - Spirituality in the Workplace
24:48 - Spirituality and Religion
25:40 - Wellbeing Aspects that Companies Prioritize
28:00 - Abandoning Terminology
31:50 - Making Space an...