No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

This is Part 1 of our unabridged interview with Iain McGilchrist.

Modernity has helped us to use the world. We have reduced it to resources to extract, data to process, problems to solve. While it has made us powerful, it has also left the world feeling flat, and left us feeling eerily like machines ourselves.

Dr. Iain McGilchrist says this reduction is a habit of attention, and it has everything to do with the two hemispheres of the brain. One half grasps, isolates, and uses. The other holds things together, sees the whole...

This is Part 2 of our unabridged interview with Iain McGilchrist.

Modernity has helped us to use the world. We have reduced it to resources to extract, data to process, problems to solve. While it has made us powerful, it has also left the world feeling flat, and left us feeling eerily like machines ourselves.

Dr. Iain McGilchrist says this reduction is a habit of attention, and it has everything to do with the two hemispheres of the brain. One half grasps, isolates, and uses. The other holds things together, sees the whole...

It's the day we've all (mostly Savannah's) been waiting for. This week, Lee and Savannah do a deep dive into Brandon Flowers’ THRASHER!

It's a record about belonging and nostalgia, and it was recorded live in Nashville by some of the greats. It's unexpectedly profound, and, in the end, Savannah just wants you to love this record as much as she does.

Things we mentioned in this episode:

Brandon Flowers' THRASHER

Jackson Browne's The Pretender

Sinners movie Dir. Ryan Coogler

Against th...

Modernity has helped us to use the world. We have reduced it to resources to extract, data to process, problems to solve. While it has made us powerful, it has also left the world feeling flat, and left us feeling eerily like machines ourselves.

Dr. Iain McGilchrist says this reduction is a habit of attention, and it has everything to do with the two hemispheres of the brain. One half grasps, isolates, and uses. The other holds things together, sees the whole, and senses what is alive. He argues that we've been handing the world over to...

This is our unabridged interview with Alister McGrath.

Science can explain the world in an incredibly helpful way, but scientific facts alone can't tell us what our lives are for. In a world shaped by modernity, it can be wildly tempting to chuck religion altogether. But with science alone, we end up in what Max Weber called the iron cage: a world fully explained, but emptied of meaning.

Dr. Alister McGrath grew up in Belfast during the Troubles, amidst conflict across political and religious lines. He became an aggressive Marxist atheist, convinced...

Meryl Streep is the voice of Aslan in Greta Gerwig's Narnia adaptation. Is this a threat to Christian orthodoxy or another culture-war distraction?

This week on The Subtext, Savannah and Lee discuss the casting controversy and dive into bigger questions about gender and how we imagine God. From C.S. Lewis' POV to feminine depictions of God in Scripture and church history, they explore what Christian humility, artistic freedom, and a more faithful public witness might look like.

Things we mentioned in this episode:

NARNIA: THE MAGICIAN’S...

Science can explain the world in an incredibly helpful way, but scientific facts alone can't tell us what our lives are for. In a world shaped by modernity, it can be wildly tempting to chuck religion altogether. But with science alone, we end up in what Max Weber called the iron cage: a world fully explained, but emptied of meaning.

Dr. Alister McGrath grew up in Belfast during the Troubles, amidst conflict across political and religious lines. He became an aggressive Marxist atheist, convinced that religion caused violence and science had made it obsolete. Then, as a...

This is our unabridged interview with Belle Tindall-Riley.

Institutional religion is off the menu for many these days. But walk to the edge of the Glastonbury music festival, and you'll find a packed field people waiting an hour in line to buy crystals, get tarot readings, and have a sound bath from a healer with singing bowls. Our religious impulses didn’t go away. They just got transferred.

It seems, consumerism and individualism are so deeply ingrained that we now pay for membership in whatever community we subscribe to. We buy their tr...

Is a $4,500 networking trip to Mar-a-Lago okay if it's for the kingdom? This week on The Subtext, Lee and Savannah unpack problematic Christian wealth seminars promising financial success for “kingdom impact." They explore the power of proximity, the dangers of “kingdom washing,” and what the early church might have to say about business, debt, and the pursuit of influence. Is Christian language transforming business, or simply baptizing capitalism?

Things we mentioned in this episode:

Come see Ira Glass on No Small Endeavor Live at the Symphony!

Friendly Atheist “Christian evangelist defends...

Institutional religion is off the menu for many these days. But walk to the edge of the Glastonbury music festival, and you'll find a packed field people waiting an hour in line to buy crystals, get tarot readings, and have a sound bath from a healer with singing bowls. Our religious impulses didn’t go away. They just got transferred.

It seems, consumerism and individualism are so deeply ingrained that we now pay for membership in whatever community we subscribe to. We buy their trinkets, their supplements, and their merch as symbols of our belonging.

Dr...

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Kobes Du Mez.

That "Live, Laugh, Love" sign at Target isn't just decor. It's a theological statement, and it has a 150-year history most of us have never heard.

Historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of the New York Times bestseller Jesus and John Wayne, argues that American Christian women have been formed more by the gift aisle than by the seminary. In her new book, Live, Laugh, Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made, she traces a 19th-century...

This week on The Subtext: Macklemore, Ed Sheeran, free speech, and the billionaire power behind the music business. Lee and Savannah unpack the controversy, looking to Dolly Parton as a guide.

What happens when public outrage becomes a purity test? Is it all just “vanity politics,” or what are we actually doing about the things we say we care about?

Things we mentioned in this episode:

M*A*S*H*

All in the Family

Olivia Fox Cabane (on the science of charisma) on Armc...

That "Live, Laugh, Love" sign at Target isn't just decor. It's a theological statement, and it has a 150-year history most of us have never heard.

Historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of the New York Times bestseller ⁠Jesus and John Wayne⁠, argues that American Christian women have been formed more by the gift aisle than by the seminary. In her new book, ⁠Live, Laugh, Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made⁠, she traces a 19th-century promise, that submission and a positive attitude will be rewarded with blessing, as it merges with the...

This is our unabridged interview with Annie F. Downs.

What's holding you back from your dreams? Annie F. Downs wants to help you diagnose and respond to that question. She says often what’s holding you back is rooted in something that was either stolen, killed, or destroyed. 

In this conversation, the New York Times bestselling author and Lee talk about her new book, Don't Let That Hold You Back.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Annie F. Downs

Thank you to our sponsors:

It’s the first birthday of The Subtext! Savannah and Lee celebrate with an “Ask Us Everything” episode, answering listener questions about Bible translations, music, patriotism, how to leave your church community, and more.

Thank you to everyone who made year one of The Subtext special. We love you! Send your AMA questions anytime to us @thesubtextshow on Instagram or to [email protected]

Things we mentioned in this episode:

Join us for No Small Endeavor Live November 22 - The Schermerhorn Symphony Center

Méditation from the...

What's holding you back from your dreams? Annie F. Downs wants to help you diagnose and respond to that question. She says often what’s holding you back is rooted in something that was either stolen, killed, or destroyed. 

In this conversation, the New York Times bestselling author and Lee talk about her new book, ⁠Don't Let That Hold You Back⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Annie F. Downs⁠

Thank you to our sponsors:

The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Anni...

This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Franco.

Attachment theory is trendy right now, and the goal is often the coveted title of "securely attached." If you’re that, then you're always calm, never spiraling, never needing anyone to hold your feelings for you. Psychologist Marisa Franco built her career studying attachment, but when she started to look at the parts of her that weren’t so secure, she began to “approach these parts of myself that I struggle with as these parts are perfect, too.”

Franco is a psychologist and assistant clinical...

Turns out, Gen Z is talking less, scrolling more, and forgetting how to be human.

This week, Savannah and Lee unpack the surprising decline in everyday conversation and why talking to strangers actually matters. Then a listener’s question prompts them to revisit Nate Bargatze drama. Does calling in vs. calling out work with public figures? 

And things get spicy when they dive into Meta’s $17 billion child-safety settlement, social media addiction, kids and algorithms, free speech, government regulation, and the complicated question of who gets to shape us online. 

Tell u...

Attachment theory is trendy right now, and the goal is often the coveted title of "securely attached." If you’re that, then you're always calm, never spiraling, never needing anyone to hold your feelings for you. Psychologist Marisa Franco built her career studying attachment, but when she started to look at the parts of her that weren’t so secure, she began to “approach these parts of myself that I struggle with as these parts are perfect, too.”

Franco is a psychologist and assistant clinical professor at the University of Maryland and the author of the New York Tim...

This is our unabridged interview with Steve Cuss.

Anxiety is contagious, and most of us catch it without noticing: from a tense meeting, a hard conversation, a parent, a group chat. After an emergency, an ER doctor pulled a young hospital chaplain aside and gave him some life-changing advice: anytime somebody's heart stops, first take your own pulse. He learned that, in order to help, he needs to first notice what’s going on inside of him.

Steve Cuss is a pastor, leadership coach, and author of Managing Leadership Anxiety and The Ex...

Six 'English' strangers try to go Amish for a month, surfacing big questions about autonomy, conformity, vanity, and discernment.

This week we're talking about TLC's Suddenly Amish, a (very scripted) reality show where six outsiders spend a month living in an Amish community to see if they could actually join the church. Lee and Savannah use Suddenly Amish as a foundation for conversations around appearance and vanity, the "if it doesn't affect you, why does it matter" ethic of modern individualism, what Christian teaching has to say about all this, and whether any real community can exist...

Anxiety is contagious, and most of us catch it without noticing: from a tense meeting, a hard conversation, a parent, a group chat. After an emergency, an ER doctor pulled a young hospital chaplain aside and gave him some life-changing advice: anytime somebody's heart stops, first take your own pulse. He learned that, in order to help, he needs to first notice what’s going on inside of him.

Steve Cuss is a pastor, leadership coach, and author of⁠ Managing Leadership Anxiety⁠ and⁠ The Expectation Gap⁠. He spent a crucible year as a chaplain in a level one trauma...

This is our unabridged interview with Michele Norris.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Cariad’s summer staff pick — Michele Norris: Race, Your Story, 6 Words, Please Send

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.” - Michele Norris. 

Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Nor...

In this episode, Lee and Savannah talk about the ways Lindsay Clancy’s trial is sparking conversations around mental health, justice, and culpability. 

This week, we tackle a story listeners have been asking us to cover: the case of Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts mother who killed her three children in 2023 after months of worsening psychiatric symptoms and a cocktail of nine prescribed medications. We dig into postpartum psychosis and postpartum depression, why true-crime audiences reach for alternate-perpetrator theories even when a defendant has admitted to the act, and how mental health plays a role in seeking justice ami...

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Cariad’s summer staff pick — Michele Norris: Race, Your Story, 6 Words, Please Send

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.” - Michele Norris. 

Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcard...

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Jakob’s summer staff pick — Kristin Neff: The Power of Self Compassion

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing or rather a hindrance?

“The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, an...

This week, we look at AI purity tests and mass surveillance, then circle back to an ongoing conversation: should social media commentary on people's bodies be off-limits?

We're digging into the Hank Green AI backlash and how AI use has become a sort of cultural purity test that nobody can actually pass. Then we break down Flock’s license-plate cameras and whether safety and privacy can coexist at scale. Last, we revisit our Ariana Grande body conversation to sit with the pushback we got, and clarify our thoughts from an earlier episode.

Th...

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Jakob’s summer staff pick — Kristin Neff: The Power of Self Compassion

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing or rather a hindrance?

“The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.

Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the Universi...

This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Lee’s co-host on The Subtext Savannah’s summer staff pick — Oliver Burkeman.

In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?

"The world is bursting...

Lee and Savannah discuss Christopher Nolan's Odyssey – both the social media storms that started before it hit theaters, and lessons inside the film itself.

Christopher Nolan's Odyssey is a blockbuster hit, and has caused a few waves in culture. Elon Musk wants his own "historically accurate" AI version, translator Emily Wilson says the film loses the "wily" Odysseus that exists in the original, and a Christian review site suggests it is blasphemous. Savannah and Lee dig into what these reactions reveal, then talk about the film itself.

Things we mentioned in this episod...

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest, we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Lee’s co-host on The Subtext Savannah’s summer staff pick — Oliver Burkeman.

In an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?

"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to...

This is our unabridged interview with the Hillbilly Thomists.

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Lee’s summer staff pick—The Hillbilly Thomistis: Bourbon, Bluegrass, and The Bible.

There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists.

“A Thomist is someone who follows...

What does our fascination with true crime say about us? This week, Lee and Savannah tackle listener questions. First up, they talk about the upcoming JonBenét Ramsey Netflix series, the line between justice and entertainment, and whether stories about evil can actually shape us for good. 

Speaking of shaping us, how does city planning around data centers form our community and character? What about Israel's conquest narratives in the Old Testament and what they mean for modern conversations about colonialism? Pack your swimtrunks, folks, because we're diving beneath the headlines in this episode!

As we practice the good life with a bit of rest we asked four of our team members to choose one of their favorite episodes and explain why. Lee’s summer staff pick—The Hillbilly Thomistis: Bourbon, Bluegrass, and The Bible.

There aren’t many Billboard-charting bluegrass bands made up entirely of Catholic Dominican Friars, who play their shows clad in white tunics and rosaries. In fact, there is precisely one such band: the Hillbilly Thomists.

“A Thomist is someone who follows the thought and theological teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas,” they explain. “We combine it with a li...

This is our unabridged interview with Danielle Chapman.

There is a fear that keeps most of us from looking too hard at where we come from: that we will turn over the wrong rock and find something we cannot carry. In the South, a holler is the tangled place on the riverbank you are told not to go. It is also a primal yell, and, as it happens, the sound Marines make. 

Danielle Chapman is a poet, a lecturer at Yale, and the author of the memoir Holler: A Poet Among Patriots. S...

Can I just say something? No, really! What are the boundaries of free speech these days? The conversation continues between Lee, Savannah, and Jacob Mchangama, Founder and Executive Director of The Future of Free Speech. Whether you're a free speech absolutist, a skeptic, or somewhere in between, this episode will challenge your assumptions about the topic. Stay tuned for Lee and Savannah's debrief at the end of the episode! 

And remember, if you want to keep engaging with the conversation in person, you're invited to The Future of Free Speech - Global Free Speech Summit, Oct. 2-3, 2026. 

There is a fear that keeps most of us from looking too hard at where we come from: that we will turn over the wrong rock and find something we cannot carry. In the South, a holler is the tangled place on the riverbank you are told not to go. It is also a primal yell, and, as it happens, the sound Marines make. 

Danielle Chapman is a poet, a lecturer at Yale, and the author of the memoir ⁠Holler: A Poet Among Patriots⁠. She was raised largely by her grandfather, a four-star general and former Commandant of th...

This is our unabridged interview with Annie Jacobsen.

Wouldn't you rather not know how the world ends?

Nine nations hold nuclear weapons, and every one of them is watched, counted, and deterred. A biological weapon needs no nation, no missile, and no submarine. The delivery system is a pair of lungs, and the barrier to entry is a working knowledge of biology and a computer. That asymmetry is why the journalist who wrote the definitive account of how the world ends in seventy-two minutes has spent the last two years on something...

Most people who share misinformation already suspect it is false. 

This is a short preview of Lee's conversation with philosopher Christian B. Miller, from Books You Should Know, our quarterly series on NSE+. His new book, The Honesty Crisis, skips the easy target of lying public figures to ask a harder question: what kind of people do we become when deception gets cheap, convenient, and almost impossible to catch?

The full conversation is available now on NSE+, along with ad-free episodes, bonus content, and exclusive series. 

Giveaway! Every NSE+ member is entered to wi...

Nikki Minaj thanked Elon Musk for saving free speech, so naturally, Lee and Savannah had to phone a friend to learn more about what is going on. Jacob Mchangama, Founder and Executive Director of The Future of Free Speech sat down with The Subtext to discuss everything from social media and censorship to hate speech, political polarization, and the First Amendment. They examine the real costs of protecting speech we disagree with and why history suggests those costs may still be worth paying.

Want to keep learning more? Well, you're in luck because Jacob's organization is hosting...