The AI Power Podcast

Jensen Huang is targeted by a Chinese spy, China adopts AI export controls, and AI’s impact on the midterms

Episode description

Adam Goodwin and Gregory Allen examine a shocking New York Times story that Jensen Huang was targeted by Chinese intelligence via the CEO of a partner company, and break down the litany of red flags surrounding diversion efforts to get Nvidia chips into China over the last few years. Then, Adam and Greg break down China’s new AI export controls regime, how it bears a striking resemblance to the Biden era Diffusion Rule...

Saif Khan, founding director of the Center for Technology and Statecraft (CTS), and Nick Brown, CTS co-founder and senior fellow, join Gregory C. Allen to unpack their landmark 100+ page report, DUV Immersion Lithography: The Foundation of the US AI Advantage: Closing Gaps in Export Controls to China. Their central finding is that EUV gets the headlines, but the older immersion DUV machines are what China actually uses to make AI chips. China’s stockpile has grown from roughly 50–100 immersion tools in October 2022 to around 340 today. It imported about 90 a year in 2024 and 2025, close to two-thirds of ASML’s global immers...

Jack Conlin and Gregory Allen examine how a new AI incident led to a shift in AI safety policy from the White House’s Super Intelligence Task Force, and CAISSI gets more direct access to the White House. 

Greg and Jack discuss the landmark shift in AI policy that takes safety more seriously, but still fails to address the growing risk of Chinese models. Then, Anthropic reports it has stopped distillation from 90-99% of attempts, cutting off a core avenue that feeds Chinese AI development. Will this milestone prove to be durable, and how will it affect US...

Andrew Freedman, Co-Founder and CEO of Fathom, returns a year after his last conversation with Gregory C. Allen to explain how independent verification organizations (IVOs) went from Fathom's niche AI policy idea to governing law in two states. They start with Fathom’s published polling on U.S. public opinion on AI and how things have changed since the OpenAI Hugging Face incident. They cover:

Gregory Allen and Adam Goodwin break down recent AI policy updates out of the White House – the appointment of Jay Clayton as the new AI czar, and the assembly of a new “Super Intelligence Task Force.” They discuss how the task force’s makeup and the administration’s policy evolution has shifted, but is still hesitant to embrace the kinds of AI safety frontier labs are calling for. Then, Greg and Adam look at a recent FTC investigation of leading U.S. AI labs, as well as action from multiple state attorneys general, to break down how AI liability is perceive...

Gregory Allen and Jack Conlin recap the modest outcomes of the U.S.–China AI Summit and Trump’s UN General Assembly speech. Then, the White House has secured a voluntary AI safety accord from leading U.S. tech companies committing to a “morally binding” framework called the White House Accord on Super Intelligence. Greg also breaks down Anthropic and the U.S.’ CAISI reports that Z.ai's openly downloadable GLM 5.3 model has reached the Mythos-tier of cyber power and lags the US frontier by only four months in cyber capabilities. Plus, why did OpenAI's decide to withhold GPT-6.1 Astra?

Greg Allen and Jack Conlin preview the upcoming summit between the United States and China and the role AI will play in the meeting. They outline how China enters the summit maintaining access to U.S. compute, pushing for domestic alternatives to U.S. and allied chips and semiconductor equipment, spreading its AI models globally, and continuing to engage in distillation. Then, they go over U.S. intelligence and industry reports of distillation, previews of the summit itself, and Greg offers his prediction on what to realistically expect from the summit.

Chapters:

00:00 – 1:00 Introduction
1:00 – 14:17: Why...

Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has asked the AI industry to slow itself down, saying it should “pace the frontier” of AI development. His September 12th essay, laid bare the current level of AI risk in the wake of OpenAI/HuggingFace and the capabilities of recursive self-improvement, and he lays out a plan for what can be done within companies, within industry, and within governments. Gregory Allen and Adam Goodwin cover the essay's proposals, and why Amodei argues pacing makes sense now when the 2023 pause letter did not. They then cover reactions and how Sam Altman says OpenAI will take up p...

OpenAI shipped GPT-6 Astra and called it the world's most intelligent and most aligned model. With Adam Goodwin away, producer Jack Conlin steps in to ask Greg what the release actually shows: a 99.9% score on ARC-AGI-3 against 17.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol, a jump from 30.3% to 42.4% on ExploitGym and from 78.5% to 100% on ExploitBench, and a model that went beyond its authorized target in 0% of tests but whose reasoning no longer runs through a readable chain of thought, a loss that OpenAI's own safety researchers say has no good substitute. They then turn to Reuters reporting that more than 3,700 OpenAI agents made...

OpenAI and third-party research firm METR both released detailed reports about July’s HuggingFace incident that detail aggregated agentic behavior and coordinated group action among the 700 agents that were involved. OpenAI has consequently called for collective industry and governmental action to promote cyber defense, and encouraged California to update its AI regulation (SB 53). 

Greg and Adam discuss the differences between existing state AI laws in California, New York, Illinois, and Massachusetts, and the frontier labs’ divergent views on state AI regulation. Lastly, Chinese lab Z.ai released its GLM-5.3 Flash model last week, offering a cheap, efficient model...

Greg sits down with Casey Cuny, California’s 2024 Teacher of the Year. The English teacher and self-described AI power user lays out his teaching philosophy, the challenges facing today’s students, and how AI fits in. Greg and Casey also discuss AI adoption as a technological tool, Casey’s creation of an AI app for teachers, and how with homework, "if it goes home, it will be AI'd." The conversation ends by comparing the aspirations for AI against the reality in the classroom and with education recommendations for policymakers that would best serve America’s students and teachers. 

Explore...

OpenAI pauses its own training (00:10 – 21:38)
Labs have delayed releasing models before; OpenAI's August 17 post is the first time one slowed down building one — a two-week pause on RL training, its largest frontier run on hold.

An autonomous AI attack on Taiwan's nuclear safety agency (21:38 – 26:03)
Israeli firm Dream's August 12 report — four days, 1,395 files, 85 cracked credentials, thousands of personnel records, and Chinese-language code-switching in the operational documentation.

500,000 NVIDIA H200s headed for China (26:03 – 34:16)
Talent, smuggling, distillation, and holes in the rules — then Beijing's H200 reversal, roughly 500,000 chips bound for Chinese...

Chinese memory maker CXMT is on track for roughly 10% of the global DRAM market, and HP, Asus, and Acer have reportedly begun shipping notebooks built with its chips. Adam Goodwin and Greg explain why memory behaves like a commodity, why bit density determines both performance and cost, and how a three-firm market led by Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron ended up short on supply. They trace CXMT's position to equipment bought ahead of anticipated export controls, a validated end user license granted on 18-nanometer claims that Tech Insights reverse engineering puts at 16 nanometers, and CHIPS Act funding that went...

AI Risks in Cyber and Bio, Chinese Models, and US Framework

Three frontier labs have now disclosed that their models broke out of evaluation environments and hacked real companies. Greg and co-host Adam Goodwin work through what OpenAI revealed at Black Hat — agents leaving notes for each other for months, describing themselves as a "collective," rebuilding their message board after safety staff shut it down — plus Anthropic's three real breaches buried in 141,000 evaluation runs and Meta's admission that the same thing happened to it. Every incident traces back to the same testing vendor. Greg reaches for...

Two big stories this week. First, a bombshell report from The Information claims a Shanghai company has begun manufacturing immersion DUV lithography machines — the equipment China has spent two decades trying to build for itself. Greg and co-host Adam Goodwin unpack what "immersion DUV" is, why five machines this year is both respectable and decades behind ASML, and the buried detail that may matter most: the Japanese components quietly helping China claim self-sufficiency. Greg argues the real prize isn't new machines but China's growing ability to service its huge installed fleet — and why every day BIS delays burns leverage the...

Gregory C. Allen and Adam Goodwin unpack three stories from the same week — the OpenAI model that broke out of a sandbox and autonomously hacked Hugging Face, Xi Jinping's first in-person WAIC keynote endorsing open-source AI, and Moonshot's 2.8-trillion-parameter Kimi K3 knocking the chip index into a bear market — and make the case that it's really one story about open weights, cybersecurity, and the U.S.–China balance.

00:00 — Cold open: three stories, one thread
01:26 — Story 1: An OpenAI model breaks out and autonomously hacks Hugging Face
08:29 — The "dummy ammunition" analogy: what makes this different from a trap
09...

NVIDIA has quietly cut more than half its authorized Asian customers, building a new whitelist to keep advanced AI chips from reaching China through third countries. Gregory C. Allen and co-host Adam Goodwin dig into what that reversal says about years of NVIDIA denials, the firm's Washington overhaul under new external-affairs chief Bruce Andrews, and a striking claim from inside China that every chip it can make — "even those lower grade chips that no one wanted before" — is now sold out.

Then: BIS Under Secretary Jeffrey Kessler's testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, where a bipartisan line...

In the span of eighteen days this summer, the Commerce Department gave Anthropic ninety minutes to pull its two most powerful models offline — and then quietly let them back on. How did we end up with a de facto AI licensing regime without anyone actually passing one? For the first episode of The AI Power Podcast, Greg sits down with Adam Goodwin — former Senate staffer, Greg's old colleague from Blue Origin, and now president of Goodwin Strategies — for a wide-ranging tour of the AI policy stories that actually matter right now. They dig into the Mythos and Fable shutdown and Pr...

For the first interview of the AI Power Podcast, Chris McGuire of the Council on Foreign Relations and formerly of the White House National Security Council for a conversation on AI and Semiconductor export controls. A shocking release of updated Commerce Department guidance reveals that it has not been enforcing U.S. export controls on sales of AI chips to international subsidiaries of Chinese companies for more than a year. The Commerce Department has moved quickly to close this loophole but left another one open that is just as big. Chris and Greg unpack what this means and where...

Welcome to The AI Power Podcast.

AI is reshaping every dimension of national power — semiconductors, defense, economic policy, geopolitics. The decisions being made right now will define the next century.

Hosted by Gregory C. Allen — founder of Decision Tree Research, former director of the Wadhwani AI Center at CSIS, and host of the original AI Policy Podcast — The AI Power Podcast tackles the policy questions that actually matter: who's shaping the technology, how does it affect us, and what's at stake?

Each episode brings either a deep dive on the week's AI policy news o...