Paul Krugman Podcast

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with David Nir and G. Elliott Morris

(recorded 10/1/26)

Paul Krugman: Like almost everybody I know, I spend about 17 hours a day thinking about the midterms, and I’ve got G. Elliott Morris and David Nir from Strength in Numbers and The Downballot here to talk to me about: What do we know? What’s going to happen? What are the indicators? And then maybe some broader issues about what the heck we think is going on in U.S. politics. So, hi, guys. Welcome.

Elliott Morris: Hey...

Transcript

On September 28th Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, one of the most prominent, most successful financial figures in the United States, published an article in the Wall Street Journal titled, “The Hell with Trump, Let’s Go Back to Globalism.”

Okay, that’s a lie. That wasn’t what the article was titled, but it was, in effect, what it said.

And it was a very interesting message to be coming at this moment in time. I think Dimon’s op-ed can be viewed as a harbinger of a big shift in the busin...

Transcript

Will crypto crash the blue wave? Probably not a question you’ve been asking, but you should.

Paul Krugman here with a video update for September 22nd. I want to talk about something that was a very big deal in the way we talked about the 2024 election, which was the role of the cryptocurrency industry.

We’re talking about it a lot less this time, I think largely because AI has stolen the limelight. But crypto is still out there. And while it has not succeeded in creating a viable business in the...

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman

(recorded 9/10/26)

Paul Krugman: So, it’s a world full of choke points. Weaponized interdependence is a term I think coined by Henry Farrell and Abe Newman. Certainly I learned it from them. And there’s a big conference—not including them for some reason—taking place at the European Central Bank a few days after we record this. And so I thought I would talk again with my two favorite international relations people (although now I’m thinking of some friends who will be up...

Transcript

“Mary had a little lamb, but when she saw it sicken, she sent it off to Packingtown, and now it’s labeled chicken.”

Hi, Paul Krugman here. That’s a little ditty that was circulating, I can’t find any original source, around 1905, when Upton Sinclair published “The Jungle” — about the meatpacking industry, one of the sort of founding documents of the progressive movement.

The topic today is Donald Trump and beef, because here we are back in Upton Sinclair territory.

So you may have seen that last month Trump announced, given...

Transcript

At this point, it’s almost a commonplace to say that under DonaldTrump, America has become a kakistocracy, ruled by the worst. But I don’tthink it’s fully appreciated the extent to which we’ve also become a cheatistocracy, ruled by the most corrupt.

Today’s commentary is a follow-upon yesterday’s primer, which was about the role of tax evasion both in leading to or contributing to our downward spiral into oligarchy and also as a surprisingly large factor in the budget deficit and therefore in America’s debt problem.

Before I get t...

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I’m spending a lot of time thinking about high interest rates, both for obvious reasons and because I’m reconsidering some of my own long-held views. So I thought I’d have a long talk with someone who has really studied these issues and now, I believe, may have been more right than I was. This may be even wonkier than usual, but trust me, it’s important.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Ricardo Caballero

(recorded 8/25/26)

Paul Kru...

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Note: After I recorded this it was reported that Trump officials are threatening to demolish the Kennedy Center if it can’t be renovated to Trump’s taste (and presumably with his name added). Matches my argument exactly.

Der Untergang naht.

Pardon my German pronunciation. I’m going to take a break today from wonky economic analysis and talk about, well, Donald Trump, but in a slightly different way from what I think most people are saying. Not positive, obviously.

Just before record...

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Better transcript!

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Jared Bernstein

(recorded 8/20/26)

Paul Krugman: Hi everyone. Paul Krugman talking with Jared Bernstein, former chief economist, head of the Council of Economic Advisers under Joe Biden. Now a policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research and at the Center for American Progress, which is in DC.

Jared Bernstein: And I speak to you from Alexandria.

Krugman: Yeah, and the reason I want to...

According to an old military maxim, amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk about logistics. But these days we need a third category: Immature, insecure guys think that war is about acting tough and looking cool.

Hi, Paul Krugman with a podcast update for today. I want to weigh in on the incredible rash of stories about how Trump and company are eviscerating the military. It is truly remarkable. If there’s one thing that we thought that the United States was still kind of number one at, it was that we had the world’s premier military. Now...

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Vanessa Williamson

(recorded 8/12/26)

Paul Krugman: This week, I’m talking to Vanessa Williamson, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of a fantastic short history of taxation called The Price of Democracy, which is, I’m pretty sure, an allusion to Oliver Wendell Holmes’ “the price of civilization,” but a very different take. And because I’m so interested these days in tax policy, I thought I could talk to Vanessa to get a sense of a lot of...

Link to primer here.

Transcript

If you want to understand how we went so far down the road towards oligarchy, Malta is a good place to look.

Hi, Paul Krugman, doing a video today.

Yesterday, my weekly primer was another episode in the series about the rise of oligarchy and the policies that have led it to where it is. And this time, I focused on the role of a huge shift in taxation that has taken place over the past several decades, away from taxing capital and towards taxing labor...

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with G. Elliott Morris

(recorded 8/6/26)

Paul Krugman: I am returning for another of multiple conversations with G. Elliott Morris, whom I find the most informative polling and political data analyst out there. And for a couple of reasons: We just had the primary in Michigan, we have a lot of numbers, and the Strength in Numbers midterm model is up. So we have our first reads on best estimates of what’s going to happen. So there’s a...

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Transcript

Contrary to what Trump administration officials say, we are not experiencing explosive economic growth. We are, however, experiencing an explosion in misery — and Donald Trump deserves full credit.

Hi, Paul Krugman here, slightly different location. I want to talk about food stamps and health insurance, two areas where things have gotten dramatically worse just in the past year and are continuing to get worse. There's going to be a lot more hungry people in America, especially hungry children, by the end of this ye...

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Transcript

Some say the world will end in fire. Some say in ice. Robert Frost wrote that in 1920. With more than a century gone by, we have a verdict. It’s fire for the win.

Hi, I’m Paul Krugman. I thought I’d talk today about a story that should be getting even more play than it is. I mean, there’s so much going on, but, you know, Europe is on fire. There are massive wildfires in France and Spain that have forced t...

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In my writing about wealth concentration and oligarchy, I steal a lot from lean heavily on the truly work of Gabriel Zucman, who is a hugely important researcher (winner of the 2023 Clark Medal) who is also starting to play a major role in policy. I’ve talked to him before, but this seemed like a good time to bring him back.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Gabriel Zucman

(recorded 7/23/26)

Paul Krugman: So, hi everyone. Paul Krugman here, bringing back Ga...

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Transcript

Good news. The second richest man in America might be prevented from taking over CNN. That's the good news. The bad news is, aside from thefact that he probably will manage to pull it off anyway, the bad news is that that would be only a small piece of the ongoing takeover of U.S. media by oligarchs. And in turn, the media takeover is just part of the extraordinary exercise of power by the extraordinarily wealthy small number of men who have been wreaking...

Lina Khan, who chaired the Federal Trade Commission under Joe Biden, is one of the smartest and most influential thinkers about antitrust in our high-tech era, and one who has blazed new paths in policymaking. I spoke with her at a Graduate Center event back in March, and caught up with her again earlier this week for another enlightening conversation.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Lina Khan

(recorded 7/14/26)

Paul Krugman: This week, I managed to get to talk to...

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Transcript

The war with Iran has just reached a very scary phase, and I’m not talking about the bombs and the drones. Hi, Paul Krugman here, doing a brief podcast instead of a full post, because I actually spent the day with friends and doing other things, and this is a quicker alternative.

If you’re following the news, you know that the sort-of ceasefire with Iran has been called off. Trump has reinstated the blockade. The Iranians are back to hitting things with...

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With everything else going on, the ongoing demolition of financial regulation and supervision, which is raising the risks of financial crisis, isn’t getting much attention. So I spoke with Dennis Kelliher, president of Better Markets, an independent think tank that is trying to sound the alarm.

Full disclosure: my nephew works at Better Markets. But I would have wanted to talk to Kelleher regardless.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Dennis Kelleher

(recorded 7/10/26)

Paul Krugman: Hi...

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Transcript

Today i want to give you some encouraging news about the state of the heartland. Well, actually New Jersey, but you got a problem with that?

But I did something kind of different yesterday — which has prevented me from producing a usual analytical Substack post — and it was actually a very uplifting experience.

So hi, I’m Paul Krugman. What i did yesterday was participate in jury selection in Mercer County, New Jersey, where i am still a legal resident.

That...

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Transcript

Yesterday, Donald Trump ordered Scott Bessent, the Secretary of theTreasury, to cut off all trade with Spain. Bessent said “Yes, sir.” Trump also said that this is because the Spaniards had stolen his strawberries.

Okay, I made up that second part, but he did in fact order Bessent to cut off all trade.

This is not going to happen.

Presidents have a lot of discretionary authority on tariffs and trade, more than they should, but you do not have the...

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Transcript

Donald Trump has distinguished himself in many ways. One of them is that he is our first pump and dump president.

Hi, Paul Krugman here. A podcast today rather than a full-on piece: I’m a little exhausted from number-crunching over the weekend. So I thought I’d talk briefly about the really extraordinary financial picture that we’re seeing under the current administration.

Obviously no president has enriched himself from office the way that Trump has. That’s common knowledge. One of t...

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Lisa Graves is the author of Without Precedent, a history and analysis of the Roberts Court and the expert on how the Federalist Society has been working to undermine democracy. Yesterday this happened:

So I managed to arrange a conversation with Lisa about what is happening:

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Lisa Graves

(recorded 6/29/26)

Paul Krugman: Hi everyone. This is a bit of an emergency recording and podcast because today, which is Monday as we’re...

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Note: It’s Lisa Cook, not Lisa Graves. Talking to Lisa Graves shortly.

Earlier today, the Supreme Court declared war on U.S. democracy. It also declared war, basically, on modern society, on everything it takes to function in the 21st century. And I’m not sure that people understand that yet.

Hi, Paul Krugman with a quick video update. I’ll have more on this tomorrow.

Really shocking decisions handed down by the Supreme Court. There were a couple that were not aw...

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Transcript

It’s kind of hard to believe, but the original Borat movie was 20 years ago. It’s time for a second sequel. And I already have the title. It would be Corruption for Make Benefit Glorious Family of Trump.

I hope that some of my listeners are young enough to not remember the original Borat movie. But it was a mockumentary, a satire, in which Sacha Baron Cohen pretended to be a journalist from Kazakhstan investigating and interviewing Americans about American mores. It was...

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Transcript

For most of last year, Elon Musk was the second most powerful man in America. He was running a large part of the government’s budget. And during that time, he established a track record of evil incompetence. I mean, really evil and really incompetent on enormous scales. And why aren’t people talking about it more?

Hi, I’m Paul Krugman, doing a brief follow-on to my discussion that was posted earlier today with Ro Khanna, the Congressman from Silicon Valley, who’s a very...

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Ro Khanna represents a large part of Silicon Valley, and not surprisingly is a very smart guy. Perhaps more surprisingly, he’s also a very interesting progressive, who has drawn considerable ire from the tech lords, with Elon Musk most recently calling for his imprisonment. I caught up with him Friday:

TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Congressman Ro Khanna

(recorded 6/26/26)

Paul Krugman: I’m talking again to Rep. Ro Khanna, the Representative for Cupertino, as it were, representing the heart of Sili...

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A short talk in lieu of a post. Back on full duty tomorrow.

Transcript:

Hi, Paul Krugman here.

I’m recording this on Tuesday afternoon. I just won’t have time to write a normal post for tomorrow when you’ll see this. And I would take the day off, except it seemed to me as if people might want some reaction to the carnage that’s been going on, at least in part of the tech sector and stock markets around the worl...

I often think of labor economics as a role model for the field: a subfield in which theory is disciplined by evidence and (most) researchers are willing to listen to that evidence even when it challenges their preconceptions. And hardly anyone does modern labor economics as well as UMass Amherst’s Arindrajit Dube, who has an excellent new book out. I talked with him about that book and the state of labor more generally.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Arindrajit Dube

(recorded 6/18/26)

Paul Krugman: One of the most satisfying parts of...

Transcript

Hi everyone. Instead of a regular post today, I’m going to put up a video. There are a number of reasons why I feel like doing that instead of the usual. One of them is that this is a dry run for a talk that I will be giving virtually later today.

There’s a conference on the economics of digital transformation taking place in Croatia, although I’ll be doing it remotely. And they have asked me to talk about global power, geoeconomics, and Europe. Those are all themes that I’ve been thi...

Thank you Michael Scarmack, Scotland Explained, Oakbridges.ca, Kim G, Cathy Stein, and many others for tuning into my live video with Heather Cox Richardson! Join me for my next live video in the app.

I last spoke with Azeem, the proprietor of Exponential View, 18 months ago — ancient history on this subject. So we revisited the state of AI.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Azeem Azhar

(recorded 6/12/26)

Paul Krugman: Hi everyone. Paul Krugman back on my usual schedule of recording interviews. And today I’m talking with Azeem Azhar, who I spoke to in January 2025, basically centuries ago in AI time. And with AI on everybody’s mind, I thought it would be good to revisit. I should say Azeem is an independent researcher and founde...

A quick video, thankfully not from Midtown Manhattan

Hi there. Paul Krugman with a very quick update.

I haven’t done a regular post today because I’m jet-lagged out of my mind, but I just wanted to weigh in on something that will be happening a few minutes after I record this. Which is that a significant piece of Midtown Manhattan — the area surrounding Madison Square Garden — is about to be closed to all pedestrians.

This is because of the Knicks game which is in Madison Square Garden. And Donald Trump is attendin...

Hi everybody. I’ve been having an extremely busy week, so no two talking heads conversation this week. Just my head talking alone for a relatively short time.

Hi, I’m Paul Krugman. I’m winding down some travel, and I’ve been meeting all sorts of people face to face, so virtual interactions are down. So just to give you some kind of Saturday video, I thought I would talk a little bit about latest economic news, markets — things that I don’t normally weigh in very much because that kind of market commentary is usually something th...

Transcript

The President of the United States is mentally ill, but everybody knows that. So while we should continue to focus on this degeneration taking place in front of our eyes, we should also, beyond that, ask what we can do about the powers, the interests, the system that put this horrifying person in a position of power.

Hi I’m Paul Krugman. First video update in a while.

It’s May 31st. If you have been following some of the news you may know that Trump’s mental deterioration, which has be...

Chad Bown and Soumaya Keynes have a terrific new book with that title — a breezy survey of our chaotic new world of international economics, couched as advice for nations trying to get the upper hand. The book is here.

I spoke with them last week about their book and the world in general. Fun stuff in a slightly grim way, and I hope we kept the acronym level tolerable. Transcript provided by the Financial Times, lightly edited to remove the ums and ahs. u

TRANSCRIPT

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Paul K: Hi everybody. I’m...

I’m posting our Wednesday conversation as this week’s video. Transcript below.

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TRANSCRIPT: Paul Krugman in Conversation with Heather Cox Richardson

(recorded 5/20/26)

Heather Cox Richardson: How are you doing, Professor Krugman? I know you’re on vacation.

Paul Krugman: Yeah. As I wrote the other day, I’m in Europe, which means I don’t have to think about Trump 100% of the time, only about 90%. So that’s a little bit of release psychologically.

HCR: It’s really astonishing, isn’t it? But hopefully we don’t talk entirely ab...

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Transcript

Hi, Paul Krugman here. Different city, different country, still not home. Unfortunately, couldn’t manage to do this one in a cafe, but we have been sitting in cafes a fair bit.

I just want to weigh in on a really kind of alarming report on consumer confidence that came out today. This is the long-running University of Michigan survey of consumer sentiment. It is kind of time hallowed. I don’t know that it’s necessarily the gold standard — there are other surveys...