At The Table

40 Episodes
Subscribe

By: Gluten Intolerance Group

Real Conversations with the Gluten Intolerance Group

✂️ Clip this podcast
The Truth about PCOS/PMOS with Amy Medling
The Truth about PCOS/PMOS with Amy Medling episode artwork
#7
Today at 2:00 PM

This week’s conversation with Amy Medling is near and dear to our host Channon’s heart. It’s time we sat down and talked about PCOS/PMOS and the effects it has on women [and people with uteruses].

There are many mysterious symptoms that come from PCOS/PMOS, and a history of medical gaslighting that comes with it. Amy Medling, the PCOS Diva, is here to break down what to look for and how to advocate for yourself to heal your body.

It’s time we spoke more openly and candidly about what people endure i...


Living Your Best Gloof Life! with Julie St. James
Living Your Best Gloof Life! with Julie St. James episode artwork
#6
11/05/2026

After 14 years of living with Celiac Disease, Julie St. James didn’t feel like she had anything worth sharing online. But she soon learned that her mundane was someone else’s everyday journey.

Julie started Gloof by Julie two years ago, and since then has been sharing travel tips, restaurant hacks, and celiac survival advice.“Gloof” is her family’s tongue-in-cheek way of saying “gluten-free”, and she’s taken it and run with it. She is here to tell you how to live your BEST Gloof Life!

Pull up a chair and join us At the Table. We ar...


Empowering the Next GF Generation with Rahma from UVA Dine
Empowering the Next GF Generation with Rahma from UVA Dine episode artwork
#5
10/29/2026

Going off to college is daunting enough. Now add that to a celiac diagnosis and navigating dining halls. That’s where Rahma joins the conversation.

Rahma Rekik is a registered dietitian, yoga instructor, and the Health and Wellness Manager for UVA Dine at the University of Virginia. On this episode of At the Table, she breaks down the passion of her role, and how she empowers teens and college students to have the best university experience they can without their dietary needs getting in the way.

If you’re a gluten-free teen preparing to look at c...


The Gluten-Free “Crowned Jules” with Trailblazer Jules Shepard
The Gluten-Free “Crowned Jules” with Trailblazer Jules Shepard episode artwork
#4
10/22/2026

When you look up “trailblazer” in the dictionary, you’ll find Jules Shepard. Jules is a decades-long advocate for the gluten-free community.

From a law career to cookbook writing and beyond, Jules has seen it all. And the best part? She wants to share it all too, because Jules knows first-hand the power and meaningfulness of community.

You don’t want to miss this conversation, so pull up a chair and join us At the Table wherever you stream your podcasts.

https://gfjules.com/

https://www.instagram.com/gfjules

https...


We’re the GF Kids in America!
We’re the GF Kids in America! episode artwork
#3
10/15/2026

This week, we’re shaking things up a bit. Instead of one interviewee, we have several. We’re revisiting our time from Teen Summit 2026 in the mountains of Georgia, and reflecting on how meaningful it was to our staff, volunteers, and most importantly our campers.

This episode interweaves a roundtable conversation from our staff and interviews that took place with our teens back in August. What we end up with is a thoughtful and moving hour of storytelling, laughter, and heart.

Pull up a seat, cozy up, and join us At the Table as we refl...


The Cost of Celiac Disease with Lexie
The Cost of Celiac Disease with Lexie episode artwork
#2
10/08/2026

Lexie is no stranger to celiac disease and its cost. Diagnosed as a teen, she was never one to accept less life because of her autoimmune needs.

This week on At the Table, Lexie candidly opens up with Channon about her diagnosis, and the support she’s had along the way from school lunch ladies to her friends today. She also shares about the origins of the Cutting Cost program and the importance of addressing the financial cost of living with celiac disease.

You don’t want to miss this one.


Paging Doctor NASCAR: Racing to Advocacy with Patrick Staropoli
Paging Doctor NASCAR: Racing to Advocacy with Patrick Staropoli episode artwork
#1
10/01/2026

Buckle, up racers! We’re revving into an exciting and compelling episode of At the Table, this time with Doctor AND NASCAR driver Patrick Staropoli.

Patrick’s story is unlike any you’ve heard lately. He is a wearer of many hats (and helmets). He and Channon delve into his unique diagnosis story, his non-profit work, and his love of racing.

Pull up a seat At the Table, and get ready to go VROOM!

https://patrickstaropoli.com/

https://www.instagram.com/97patrickstar

https://www.facebook.com/patrickstaropoliracing/

https...


Bringing Gluten-Free Joy to Tokyo - With Takako
Bringing Gluten-Free Joy to Tokyo - With Takako episode artwork
#17
09/24/2026

Takako is a chef and restauranteur located in Tokyo, Japan. After her friend was diagnosed with Celiac Disease, she sought out gluten-free options in her city and came up short. Some restaurants literally offered her a mango as a dinner option.

So, Takako took matters into her own hands and is now the owner of three dedicated gluten-free restaurants. Join us this week At the Table to learn more about her journey and the nuance of navigating a gluten-free lifestyle in Japan.

https://glutenfree.co.jp/

IG @glutenfreetskitchen


That’s Totally Wicked: Abby Kelly & the Wicked Gluten Free Expo
That’s Totally Wicked: Abby Kelly & the Wicked Gluten Free Expo episode artwork
#16
09/17/2026

Feeling Wicked?

This week we are joined by Abby Kelly, the woman behind the Wicked Gluten Free Expo. What started as a passion project is now a community-focused food festival celebrating all things (and people) gluten-free.

From early speed bumps to thrilling and huge successes, Abby shares what her journey with the food show has been like.

There are two more Wicked shows happening this year, so mark your calendars:

Fitchburg, MA on Saturday, September 19th &Secaucus, NJ on Saturday, November 7th & Sunday, November 8th


Join us both...


Having the Last Laugh: Robin Hofmann & the Gluten is a Joke Documentary
Having the Last Laugh: Robin Hofmann & the Gluten is a Joke Documentary episode artwork
#15
09/10/2026

Gluten is a Joke.

Wait, what? That’s right: Gluten is a Joke. A new documentary from writer & director Robin Hofmann is coming.

This week, Channon sits down with Robin to learn about her celiac journey, the origins of this movie, and the impact they hope this documentary will provide for the gluten-free community.

Gluten is a Joke is having its World Premiere on Saturday, September 12th. Join us At the Table to learn more about Robin and her powerful & audacious new film.

https://www.glutenisajoke.com/


Celiac Life Lessons & Gratitude with Liz from Yeet That Wheat
Celiac Life Lessons & Gratitude with Liz from Yeet That Wheat episode artwork
#14
09/03/2026

This week, we are joined by Liz of Yeet That Wheat. Liz is a wearer of many hats: content creator, social justice warrior, food and health equity advocate, baker, and a curiosity captain.


She and Channon sit down for a conversation that could have gone on for hours. They discuss the origins of Liz’s online handle, the difficulties of confirming a celiac diagnosis, and the disadvantages people of color face in our gluten-free world.

If you’re curious to learn something new, Liz is the person to listen to. So pull up a seat at the...


From Print to Plate: A Conversation with Colin of Gluten Free & More Magazine
From Print to Plate: A Conversation with Colin of Gluten Free & More Magazine episode artwork
#13
08/27/2026

You might consider Colin O’Neal a real life George Bailey. He never imagined that he’d be taking over his family business. After the sudden passing of his father, he went to Florida to help get things back on track and wound up staying for good.

The family business is Gluten Free & More Magazine, the groundbreaking magazine that is currently defying the expectations of modern-day print. With an ever-growing community, Colin is leading the charge as a celiac of over 30 years to put gluten-free people first.

This episode dives into his personal journey with bein...


The Gluten-Free Treasure Hunt: Molly McMillan's Story
The Gluten-Free Treasure Hunt: Molly McMillan's Story episode artwork
#12
08/20/2026

When Molly McMillan was diagnosed with food allergies and potential celiac disease as an 18-year-old Division I athlete, she had no idea that journey would eventually lead her to become a registered dietitian, gluten-free advocate, and world traveler.

In this episode, Channon and Molly talk about learning to advocate for yourself, navigating college and athletics with dietary restrictions, finding safe food while traveling, and overcoming the feeling that life has suddenly become smaller after diagnosis. Along the way, Molly shares lessons she's learned from years of helping others navigate food restrictions and explains why she sees the...


Encore Presentation - Growing Up Gluten-Free: Mothers, Daughters, and the Power of Self-Trust
Encore Presentation - Growing Up Gluten-Free: Mothers, Daughters, and the Power of Self-Trust episode artwork
#11
08/13/2026

Special Encore Presentation from Season 1:

What does it really mean to grow up gluten-free? Not just medically, but socially, emotionally, and relationally?

In this episode, Channon is joined by writer and longtime gluten-free advocate Elyn Joy, her daughter Edyth, and Channon’s own daughter, Devyn, for an honest, multi-generational conversation about childhood, identity, and learning to advocate for yourself.

Together, they talk about the moments people don’t always see: navigating school events and birthday parties, dating and friendships, learning when to speak up (and when you didn’t), and how early food bounda...


Beyond the Menu: A Chef's Approach to Gluten-Free Dining
Beyond the Menu: A Chef's Approach to Gluten-Free Dining episode artwork
#10
08/06/2026

This week, Chef Jason of Fuego and Salt joins at the table. His conversation with Channon ranges from his early aughts discovering a love of food, navigating his boundaries with the restaurant industry, and ultimately reclaiming his space in the kitchen and developing an allergen-friendly menu.

Jason breaks down the ease and simplicity of making a gluten-free menu, and prioritizing the needs of his clients.

This honest and compelling episode is sure to move and enlighten you on what happens behind the scenes in restaurants laying the groundwork for celiac safety. Pull up a chair...


Too Good to Be GF: How WOW Baking Built Trust One Cookie at a Time
Too Good to Be GF: How WOW Baking Built Trust One Cookie at a Time episode artwork
#9
07/30/2026

What does it take to earn the trust of a community that can't afford mistakes? This week, Channon sits down with Shawna LeMott of WOW Baking Company to talk about building a gluten-free brand that puts safety, quality, and community first. From the early days of dry, crumbly gluten-free products to creating cookies that everyone wants to eat, Shawna shares how WOW Baking has helped change expectations around gluten-free food. They discuss dedicated facilities, GFCO certification, customer trust, the power of community partnerships, and why no one should have to settle for a cookie that's merely "good for gluten-free."<...


Lunchboxes, Road Trips, and Grace: Raising Celiac Kids with Kelly
Lunchboxes, Road Trips, and Grace: Raising Celiac Kids with Kelly episode artwork
#8
07/23/2026

In this episode, Channon talks with Kelly, a pediatric nurse who still knew nothing about celiac disease until it hit her own house, twice. In this episode she shares her family's 2015 diagnosis journey (mystery leg pain, a trick-or-treat night that changed everything, a celiac panel added almost as an afterthought), plus eleven years of lunch-packing, team sports, road trips, and mentoring another family through their own daughter's diagnosis. Her advice: you can't know what you don't know, perfection was never the goal, and you take it one day at a time.

Reach out to Kelly krpowal@yahoo...


The Truth About Gluten Detection: What Home Test Kits Can (and Can't) Tell You
The Truth About Gluten Detection: What Home Test Kits Can (and Can't) Tell You episode artwork
#7
07/16/2026

In this episode, Channon sits down with Laura Allred, a PhD immunologist from the Gluten-Free Certification Organization (GFCO), to chat about what it really takes to keep our food safe. Laura pulls back the curtain on the behind-the-scenes world of gluten testing, sharing how factories manage shared spaces and use strict cleaning protocols to keep cross-contact at bay. This massive effort pays off, as GFCO's strict testing programs stop more than 50 potential product recalls every year before the food ever hits store shelves.

They also break down how gluten test kits actually work, explaining the difference between...


May the Course Be With You: Going Pro With Celiac Disease
May the Course Be With You: Going Pro With Celiac Disease episode artwork
#6
07/09/2026

This week on At the Table, we are joined by Kelly Okun: the founder of Fairway to Green, a retired pro-golfer, and a woman with celiac disease.

Kelly breaks down her unconventional celiac diagnosis, how she advocates for celiacs and women in sports, and how she started her women-focused social media company.

Pull up a seat, because you’re always welcome At the Table


IG @kellyokungolf

https://fairwaytogreen.com/


The Gluten-Free Open

https://gluten.org/gluten-free-open/


Kind Persistence: Advocating for The ADINA Act
Kind Persistence: Advocating for The ADINA Act episode artwork
#5
07/02/2026

Have you ever wondered why packaged foods are required to label known allergens, but prescription drugs and medicines aren’t?

In this episode of At the Table, Channon sits down with the Togal family as they share their story, insights, and glimmers of hope for the future of medical safety.

Meet Adina, the 15-year-old behind The ADINA Act: a bill that will require the FDA to label allergens on prescription drugs. After a deeply frightening experience with their teen, parents Jen and Seth sought out answers and found themselves with only more questions. The Minnesota-based fa...


The Brain-Gut Connection: Exploring Gastro-Psych with Dr. Alyse Bedell
The Brain-Gut Connection: Exploring Gastro-Psych with Dr. Alyse Bedell episode artwork
#4
06/25/2026

Trust your gut. Butterflies in your stomach. That felt like a gut-punch.

You’ve probably heard one or maybe all of these expressions before. But did you know there is a science behind these phrases? This week on At the Table, Channon sits down with Dr. Alyse Bedell, a Gastro-Psych specialist, to discuss the research and nuance of the brain-gut connection for gluten-free people from gastro-presenting symptoms to neurological.

So pull up a chair and listen to this week’s informative episode.

https://gluten.org/dr-alyse-bedell-bio/


Teen Takeover Part Two: Girls Just Wanna Have Functional Gut Health
Teen Takeover Part Two: Girls Just Wanna Have Functional Gut Health episode artwork
#3
06/18/2026

(Content Warning for eating disorders and body dysmorphia. Listener’s discretion advised)

On this special Teen Takeover episode of At the Table, Megan and Madeline sit down to talk with Lauren Murawski from Eat Gluten Free With Me. Since her celiac disease diagnosis at age 17, Lauren has had to be her own best advocate. From navigating multiple autoimmune disorders, to developing and overcoming her eating disorder, Lauren opens up about how she has trudged her own path and made a career for herself through content creation, community building, and advocacy.

Follow Lauren:

@eat.glu...


Teen Takeover: Teens Bust the Biggest Celiac Myths
Teen Takeover: Teens Bust the Biggest Celiac Myths episode artwork
#2
06/11/2026

What do teens really think about living with celiac disease? And what do they wish everyone else understood?

In this special Teen Advisory Board takeover episode, Megan, Madeline, Katie, and Addysen take the mic to break down the biggest myths about living gluten-free. From “just eat a salad” to “a little gluten won’t hurt,” they’re sharing honest, unfiltered perspectives on what life is actually like navigating school, friendships, food, and social situations.

You’ll hear real conversations about:

The emotional ups and downs of diagnosisMisconceptions about gluten-free diets and health trendsCross-contact, labeling confusion, and...


Inside GIG & GIG Cares: Supporting Gluten-Free Lives Since 1974
Inside GIG & GIG Cares: Supporting Gluten-Free Lives Since 1974 episode artwork
#1
06/04/2026

What happens after a celiac diagnosis, and where do you turn when everything suddenly feels overwhelming?

Welcome to Season 2 of At the Table. In this episode, Channon Quinn (COO of GIG & CEO of GIG Cares) sits down with Outreach Manager, Devyn, to pull back the curtain on what real support in the gluten-free community looks like. From long-standing community groups to mentorship programs, teen summits, and food access initiatives, they break down how GIG and GIG Cares are working to make life safer, more connected, and more equitable for those living gluten-free.

They share the “wh...


Behind the Mic: Bloopers, Laughs & the Moments That Stayed With Us
Behind the Mic: Bloopers, Laughs & the Moments That Stayed With Us episode artwork
#18
05/28/2026

Before we dive into Season 2, we’re opening the mic on something a little different.This special retrospective episode of At the Table pulls back the curtain on Season 1, bringing you the moments you didn’t hear, the ones you couldn’t forget, and the stories that shaped everything.

From bloopers and behind-the-scenes chaos (including surprise appearances from Tater, the Great Dane, and a few farm animals) to laugh-out-loud one-liners and unforgettable guest moments, this episode is a reminder that the best conversations are often the realest ones.

But in between the laughter, there are the mo...


Brewing Without Limits: Inside Holidaily Brewing
Brewing Without Limits: Inside Holidaily Brewing episode artwork
#17
05/21/2026

Karen Hertz survived two cancers, went gluten-free, and went looking for a beer she could actually drink. She came up empty. So she built Holidaily Brewing: the largest dedicated 100% gluten-free brewery in the US.

In this episode: the science behind why gluten-reduced beer isn't safe for celiac consumers, what GFCO certification actually requires, how the category is growing fast, and what Karen says directly to anyone grieving a new diagnosis.

Plus, the consultant who told her it would never work, and the drive home from Fort Collins that started everything.

Find Holidaily at...


From Burnout to Joy: A Physician’s Perspective on Whole-Person Health
From Burnout to Joy: A Physician’s Perspective on Whole-Person Health episode artwork
#16
05/14/2026

In this episode, Channon sits down with Dr. Chrissie Ott for a deeply honest conversation about medicine, burnout, whole-person healing, and navigating complex health journeys.Dr. Ott shares her path from professional dance and nutrition studies to becoming a dual board-certified physician, coach, speaker, and advocate for physician well-being. Together, they explore the emotional realities of healthcare, the importance of compassionate listening between doctors and patients, and what happens when clinical knowledge collides with lived experience.

The conversation also dives into Dr. Ott’s personal experience supporting her daughter through pediatric obesity treatment, the complexity of food re...


How Personal Experience Drives Industry Innovation in Gluten-Free Products
How Personal Experience Drives Industry Innovation in Gluten-Free Products episode artwork
#15
05/07/2026

Join us as we explore the evolution of gluten-free certification, the science behind GFCO standards, and the impactful journey of Sara Boswell from food scientist to industry leader. Discover how her personal experience with celiac disease drives her mission to improve gluten-free products and supply chains.


Savoring Gluten-Free Life with Glass of Weinstein
Savoring Gluten-Free Life with Glass of Weinstein episode artwork
#14
04/30/2026

Channon chats with Matt Weinstein (known for Glass of Weinstein & Gluten-Free Town Hall) in this easy to listen to, entertaining episode about Matt’s love for cooking, belief that food is life, and passion to help others have confidence in the kitchen. https://glassofweinstein.com/


From Diagnosis to Advocacy: Casey the College Celiac's Journey
From Diagnosis to Advocacy: Casey the College Celiac's Journey episode artwork
#13
04/23/2026

In this episode, Casey Cromwell, known as Casey the College Celiac, dives into her story about being diagnosed with Celiac at 17. She shares about the struggles she is still navigating on this gluten-free journey and how she is using her platform to support others going through the same things.


How One Mom Turned Inclusion into a Cookie Company: The Why Behind Homefree
How One Mom Turned Inclusion into a Cookie Company: The Why Behind Homefree episode artwork
#12
04/16/2026

In this episode, host Channon sits down with Jill Robbins, founder and CEO of Homefree, to talk about the deeply personal story behind one of the gluten-free and allergen-friendly brands in the GFCO community. Jill shares how her experience as both a mother and clinical psychologist shaped her mission to create treats that make inclusion easier for everyone, especially children navigating food allergies and gluten-free life.

The conversation explores the emotional impact of food inclusion, the trust consumers place in certification and what it really takes to build a brand around safety, quality, and belonging. Jill also...


Small Changes, Big Difference: Talking Inflammation and Food
Small Changes, Big Difference: Talking Inflammation and Food episode artwork
#11
04/09/2026

In this episode of At the Table, we explore inflammation, how it shows up in everyday life, and how food choices may help support better health. Host, and COO of the Gluten Intolerance Group, Channon talks with Jeff Kitchen, Corporate Culinary Director at GenCare, and Registered Dietitian Alma Nocchi about anti-inflammatory eating, menu planning for senior living residents, and the small changes that can make a meaningful difference. From sugar and processed foods to real-world recipe swaps and resident feedback, this conversation makes nutrition feel practical and hopeful.


Teen Voices on Living Gluten-Free: What Teens Want You to Know about Living Gluten-Free
Teen Voices on Living Gluten-Free: What Teens Want You to Know about Living Gluten-Free episode artwork
#10
04/02/2026

In this episode, we hear directly from two members of our Teen Advisory Board, Madeline, and Illuminata, about what life with celiac disease really looks like in high school. From school lunches and social situations to travel challenges, self-advocacy, and 504 plans, this conversation is honest, thoughtful, and full of insight. If you are a teen living gluten-free, or a parent trying to support one, this episode is a reminder that you are not alone.



When Gluten-Free Feels Overwhelming: Celiac, Food Anxiety and Finding Balance
When Gluten-Free Feels Overwhelming: Celiac, Food Anxiety and Finding Balance episode artwork
#9
03/26/2026

In this episode of At the Table, we explore the complex connection between celiac disease, food anxiety, and disordered eating, especially for teens and young adults navigating independence for the first time. Joined by dietetic intern Katie, we discuss how medically necessary restriction can evolve into something heavier, and how to recognize when that shift is happening. This episode is meant to bring clarity, normalize the experience, and offer support.


*Content note: This episode includes discussion of eating disorders and food anxiety.


Teen Summit: Where Gluten-Free Teens Find Their Voice
Teen Summit: Where Gluten-Free Teens Find Their Voice episode artwork
#8
03/19/2026

What happens when a gluten-free teen stops navigating the world alone?

In this episode of At the Table, Channon is joined by Megan and Sam, two members of GIG’s Teen Advisory Board and Teen Summit alumni, for a real, unfiltered conversation about growing up with celiac disease.

They share what life looked like before finding community, the quiet loneliness that often goes unspoken, and the moments at Teen Summit that changed how they see themselves. From learning how to advocate at restaurants to building friendships that don’t require explanation, this conversation goes far beyo...


Inside the Natural Products Industry with GIG: Trends, Certifications, and Personal Stories
Inside the Natural Products Industry with GIG: Trends, Certifications, and Personal Stories episode artwork
#7
03/12/2026

What actually happens behind the scenes at one of the biggest food industry trade shows in the world? In this episode, Channon sits down with the GIG trade show team to reflect on their time at the 2026 Natural Products Expo West. They share what stood out on the show floor, exciting products they discovered, and the trends shaping the future of the gluten-free market.

Behind the scenes at Expo West, the GIG team pulls up chairs and unpacks what they saw, tasted, and learned from one of the biggest natural products trade shows in the country. Recorded...


Who You’re Actually Sitting With
Who You’re Actually Sitting With episode artwork
#6
03/05/2026

Most weeks on At the Table, Channon sits across from a guest listening, asking questions, and creating space for someone else’s story.

This week, she pulled her own chair up.

In this solo episode, Channon shares the path that shaped her. From eight-year-old dreams to a business graduate who helped grow the Gluten Free Certification Organization from three certified companies to over 1,300 brands across six continents.

But the heart of the episode isn’t about growth metrics.

It’s about the moment certif...


History, Standards, and What’s Next
History, Standards, and What’s Next episode artwork
#5
02/26/2026

What does the GFCO certification mark really mean — and how does a product earn it?

In this episode, we sit down with Paul to share the story behind the Gluten-Free Certification Organization. From its early days certifying just three companies to becoming a globally recognized certification program, we walk through how the standards were built, how they continue to evolve, and what happens behind the scenes before a product carries the GFCO mark.

They also address some of the most common consumer questions and concerns:

How strict are the st...


Healthy Aging, Gluten-Free & the Nutrition Shifts No One Talks About
Healthy Aging, Gluten-Free & the Nutrition Shifts No One Talks About episode artwork
#4
02/19/2026

In this episode of At the Table, we sit down with longtime gluten-free educator and registered dietitian Ronni Alicea to talk about what actually shifts as we age... and what matters most.

We cover:

Why protein becomes non-negotiable

How gut health impacts more than digestion

Portion control vs. restriction

Nutrient density over calories

What gluten-free adults should pay attention to long term

Why critical thinking matters in a world full of nutrition noise

This conversation is practical, honest, and grounded in decades of...


Growing Up Gluten-Free: Mothers, Daughters, and the Power of Self-Trust
Growing Up Gluten-Free: Mothers, Daughters, and the Power of Self-Trust episode artwork
#3
02/12/2026

What does it really mean to grow up gluten-free? Not just medically, but socially, emotionally, and relationally?

In this episode, we are joined by writer and longtime gluten-free advocate Elyn Joy, her daughter Edyth, and the host’s own daughter, Devyn, for an honest, multi-generational conversation about childhood, identity, and learning to advocate for yourself.

Together, they talk about the moments people don’t always see: navigating school events and birthday parties, dating and friendships, learning when to speak up (and when you didn’t), and how early food boundaries quietly shape confidence, self-trust, and adulth...