Motive: Mr Lyttle Meets Mr Big

As doubts on both sides mount, the Mr Big evidence becomes crucial to the Crown's case.

This episode was first released on 28 June 2023.

David's story looks increasingly shaky. He can't immediately explain a two-hour gap on the morning he said he saw Brett. And he has repeatedly misled police during questioning.

The Crown is telling a powerful story about David's guilt.

But the defence story is starting to take shape too. It's surely enough to create reasonable doubt.

The Mr Big sting becomes crucial. Does it dispel that doubt?<...

The Crown finally opens its case against David Lyttle.

This episode was first released on 26 June 2023.

After years of delays and postponements, the Crown finally opens its case against David Lyttle for the murder of Brett Hall.The contest of stories can finally begin.

What really happened? Will the rest of the evidence give us the full story?

And what will the jury think when they hear both sides?

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

The trial begins, only to collapse after a week due to police failures. Can a fair trial ever happen?

This episode was first released on 23 June 2023.

The trial begins.

A week later, it's declared a mistrial. The Crown has just turned over evidence that seems to say someone saw the murder of Brett Hall - and the killer wasn't David Lyttle!

How could that possibly happen? It turns out that this is just the latest in an astonishing chain of disclosure failures by police investigating the case.

Is the...

We find it hard to believe people would confess to a crime they didn't commit. But they do.

This episode was first released on 21 June 2023.

What can psychologists tell us about Mr Big?

Leading experts in false confessions argue that we (and therefore jury members) find it difficult to believe that someone could confess to a crime they didn't commit, difficult to tell when someone is lying, and difficult to accept that it's people's predicaments that drive their behaviour, not their character.

All this makes David's lawyers nervous about the trial...

The police get their confession. But can we believe it?

This episode was first released on 19 June 2023.

We go inside the sting police used on David Lyttle and look at the tactics involved: the nurturing of friendship with "Nick"; the offers of money, cars, trips and status.

David is told again and again the catchwords of the gang - truth, honesty, loyalty.

This is an organisation that looks after its people, that doesn't judge them, and that controls crooked cops who can fix anything.

As long as you are...

Only three countries in the world allow the Mr Big technique to be used. We're one of them.

This episode was first released on 16 June 2023.

Mr Big is a powerful technique that can bring justice to murder victims.

But experts disagree about its effectiveness.

Some support the technique. Others think Mr Big stings exploit people's vulnerabilities and encourage them to lie.

Not all countries use the sting, including the United States of America and the United Kingdom.

In Canada, police employ some surprising and troubling variations on...

Is this police sting reliable? Is it just?

This episode was first released on 14 June 2023.

When Halcombe builder David Lyttle answers a knock on his door in March 2014, he's drawn into a shadowy organisation with promises of wealth and friendship. David is desperate to join, but learns that first, he has to get the nod from the organisation's boss, Mr Big.

Mr Big asks David about his past. David says he's committed a murder. He shows the boss where he says the body parts are buried.

Then... he's arrested. It was...

The Mr Big technique is a powerful tool used to get criminals to confess. But is it fair? Is it just? Or does it lead to false convictions?

This episode was first released on 6 June 2023.

Can the police use a story to get to the truth about a murder?

In 2014, David Lyttle, a struggling builder in the little town of Halcombe, answers a knock at his door. What happens then leads him into a shadowy criminal organisation that offers him friendship, a new job, and riches, in exchange for one thing: honesty.

27 years after she was convicted, the case against Gail Maney for the murder of Deane Fuller-Sandys has collapsed. What happens now?

This episode was first released on 17 August 2024.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Nearly 35 years have passed since Deane Fuller-Sandys went missing.

And 27 years since Gail Maney was accused of ordering a hit on the young West Auckland tyre fitter.

The Police case was that on Gail’s ord...

More rumours emerge, another witness recants and Gail Maney finds new allies in her fight to prove she’s innocent.

This episode was first released on 30 September 2019.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

A key witness comes forward with new information that could vindicate Gail Maney, and the lead detective reflects on where his investigation might have gone wrong.

This episode was first released on 30 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

As Gail Maney and three others go on trial for murder, flaws in the prosecution case come to light.

This episode was first released on 29 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

The media called him a “stone cold killer”, but the truth about Stephen Stone is a bit more complicated than that.

This episode was first released on 28 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Two historic murder investigations merge into one. But how can police figure out what actually happened, when their key witnesses keep changing their stories?

This episode was first released on 27 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

A terrified witness contacts police. Revelations about a young woman’s murder force detectives to reconsider everything they thought they knew about the Deane Fuller-Sandys case.

This episode was first released on 26 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Gail Maney had a tough West Auckland upbringing, but she wasn’t a bad kid. Then in the 1990s she slid into a life of hard drugs, petty crime and prostitution. But does that really mean she’s a killer?

This episode was first released on 25 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

For years, Deane Fuller-Sandys was thought to have drowned while fishing at Whatipu. But did police get it right when they later decided Deane was the Larnoch Road “body in the boot”?

This episode was first released on 25 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Gail Maney has served 15 years in jail for ordering the 1989 murder of young Auckland tyre-fitter Deane Fuller-Sandys. But she says she never knew him. In fact, she thinks he wasn’t even murdered.

This episode was first released on 25 June 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Paloma is back to say thanks and gives a tip on the next podcast to check out. Hosted by Amy Maas and Adam Dudding is Gone Fishing, produced by RNZ and Stuff.

This episode was first released on 3 July 2018.

Read more about the case, watch extended video interviews and keep track of the case with a summary of the characters, a timeline and map here.

Produced in partnership with Stuff.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Fran Martin popped out to the petrol station in Hamilton in 2005, bought cigarettes, and wasn't seen again. Her father, Bob, has spent his life savings looking for her.

This series was first released on 1 December 2017.

Watch a video segment from the episode here

Bob Martin has spent 13 years, his savings and much of his pension looking for his daughter.

When she disappeared in 2005, the 79-year-old combed the reserves along State Highway 1 between Hamilton and Taupo. He put flyers up in Putaruru and Tokoroa. He dug on land because psychics told him...

Two year-old Jefferie Hill went outside to play, saying, "I won't go away, Mummy." So how does mum Jo Reynolds and his family deal with the fact they've never seen him again? What happened to him?

This series was first released on 24 November 2017.

Watch a video segment from the episode here

Jefferie Hill would be 52 years old today - but when his mother last saw him he was just a toddler.

Jefferie disappeared on September 28th, 1968; Keith Holyoake was still Prime Minister of New Zealand. The 2-year-old had been playing in...

Tracey Donnelly says her husband Jim's disappearance is illogical, and 13 years on, still believes there are answers to be found - in the Glenbrook Steel Mill.

This series was first released on 17 November 2017.

Watch a video segment from the episode here

On Monday 21 June 2004, Jim Donnelly signed into work as usual. Thirteen years later, he still hasn't signed out.

The 43-year-old father-of-two worked at the Glenbrook Steel Mill, south of Auckland, for nearly 20 years.

His wife, Tracey, is still trying to find out what happened to him; she believes...

Shannel Yorke struggles to remember her mother, Judith, who disappeared in 1992, and retired cop Alan Collin talks of his determination to find peace for the family.

This series was first released on 10 November 2017

Watch a video segment from the episode here

At least one of about 30 people is believed to hold the key to the disappearance of mother-of-two Judith Yorke 25 years ago.

The 25-year-old, known as Judy, was last seen at an orchard shed, where she was partying with about 30 others in Matapihi on October 21, 1992. Police believe she was...

Paloma Migone digs into the cold cases of those who never came home. In episode one, Robyn Jensen says she'll never give up hope of finding her daughter, Kirsa.

This series was first released on 3 November 2017

Watch a video segment from the episode here

Time is running out for Robyn Jensen.

The 72 year-old hasn't seen her daughter, Kirsa, in more than 34 years.

Kirsa was 14 when she went missing while riding her horse, Commodore, along a Napier beach on the first day of spring in 1983. The terrible story gripped the...

The true stories of New Zealand's missing people. Paloma Migone digs into the cold cases of those who never came home.

Watch a video version of the trailer here

This series first published in May 2017.

Every year, thousands of New Zealanders go missing. On average about one every hour.

Most are found quickly. But some are never seen again. They are the lost.

RNZ's new five-part podcast, The Lost, digs into some of those missing persons cases and talks to the families about their quest for answers and the...

Peter Ellis was released from prison in 2000 - but that was by no means the end of the story. This episode looks at life after prison and the huge impact this case has had on the whole country.

This series was first released on 12 October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

We'll never be sure what happened when Peter Ellis worked at the Christchurch Civic Creche that lead to the shocking accusations by some of the children who went there.

...

Peter Ellis spent more than seven years in prison, for a crime he says he didn't commit. He and others describe his time behind bars and the many surprises and revelations he faced.

This series was first released on 11 October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

Peter Ellis is found guilty of 16 counts of abuse in relation to 7 children and is sentenced to 10 years in prison.

The shock of life in a Maximum Security prison is profound, but there is...

Tensions run high as the High Court trial of Peter Ellis reaches its conclusion.

This series was first released on  October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, visit the RNZ website here.

The trial grinds on, loyalties are tested, and a sense of exhaustion sets in.

Are there, as Ellis and his supporters claim, abuses of power by key witnesses such as leading child psychologist Karen Zelas, key members of the police team, and some of the complainant parents? Is there medical evidence of the a...

The High Court trial into child abuse at the Christchurch Civic Creche begins on Monday, 26 April, 1993. Peter Ellis is charged with 28 counts against 13 children.

This series was first released on  October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

Peter Ellis's friends rally round to help him scrub up his image and the trial begins.

As the High Court trial opens, Peter Ellis finds himself before a conservative Catholic judge and a compromised jury with personal connections to some of the complainants.

As the divisions in the community intensify, one year on from those first allegations, the preliminary court hearing against Peter Ellis and the four women begins.

This series was first released on  October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

Together the five child care workers face 60 charges of sexual offending against 20 children.   

Over 11 weeks, dozens of people give evidence, from the children and their families to police, other creche teachers and various experts.

Go to this episode on rnz...

Four female creche workers are arrested in a series of raids on their homes. A damning report into the creche culture is release and the child care centre is abruptly closed.

This series was first released on  October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the website here.

By late 1992, four female creche workers had also been accused of abuse and arrested by police.

Debbie Gillespie and Marie Keys describe the day the police knocked on their doors and all the woman talk about the i...

The children's stories get more and more bizarre and suddenly, others are in the frame too.

This series was first released on 4 October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

By October 1992, 119 children have been interviewed and their allegations range from violent nude dancing to rape and murder.

Expert opinion varies on why children would make up such claims, but the parents couldn't imagine where the ideas would come from, unless the children had experienced horrific abuse.

And more...

As more and more children come forward with accounts of abuse, we look at what the role the parents, police and expert child interviewers may have played.

This series was first released on 3 October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

What's happening for the 3 to 5 year old children at the centre of the investigation, some of whom are put through hours of questioning by professionals feeling their way in a relatively new field?

How could happy, healthy, innocent kids come...

Peter Ellis is arrested and charged with child sexual abuse. Creche parents are panicked and horrified. But what has really been happening at the creche?

This series was first released on 2 October 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

The day Peter turns 34 his house is searched for incriminating material to corroborate the accusations of paedophilia and when he's arrested, all the rumours are front page news.

A leading child sexual abuse expert reassures the public that there are processes in...

As more and more children came forward with claims of sexual abuse, we ask whether international events were influencing the case in Christchurch.

This series was first released on 29 September 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the RNZ website here.

As in similar cases a few years earlier in the US and Australia, rumours of ritual satanic abuse emerge amidst a rising tide of moral panic swirling around the beleaguered creche.

A second child makes an accusation and police activity amps up interviewing parents...

There's fear and confusion after a child says 'I don't like Peter's black penis'. A second accusation causes the investigation to be ramped up.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the website here.

A child's comment to his mother that he 'doesn't like Peter's black penis' leads to Peter being suspended by his shocked supervisor and sets off the first depth charge beneath the community surrounding the creche

Were children being sexually abused there, could anxious parents get accurate information from their sons and...

Who was Peter Ellis, the childcare worker at the centre of the accusations and how did he come to work there? Meet people with many different connections to what was to become New Zealand's most notorious child sexual abuse case.

This series was first released on 29 September 2023.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the website here.

Who was Peter Ellis, the childcare worker at the centre of the accusations and how did he come to work there?

To set the scene, we meet people...

What really happened at the Christchurch Civic Creche in the late 1980s and early 1990s? Was Peter Ellis wrongly convicted or should we believe the children. Listen to RNZ's new podcast and make up your own mind.

To see more images and details about Peter Ellis and the series, vist the website here.

In the early 1990's Aotearoa's garden city Christchurch was torn apart by accusations of child sexual abuse at a creche owned by the City Council.

The story begins when a four year old boy makes the comment "I don't like...

While it's the end of Nark, it's not the end of RNZ's true crime podcasts - welcome to RNZ's latest super feed called Motive. Dedicated to all things true crime, keep following this podcast feed to get episodes every Tuesday from RNZ's true crime back catalogue, as well as brand new shows as they get released. Listen out for award winning series like Conviction, Gone Fishing, Mr Lyttle Meets Mr Big and more right here in this podcast feed.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

You've reached the final episode of Nark, but it's far from the end of the story. Mike Wesley-Smith looks at all the pieces uncovered during his investigation, all the bits still missing and discovers the hopes Suzanne Young and Julie Appelgren hold for resolution.

Read more stories and see images from Nark on the RNZ website

Special thanks to everyone who helped bring this podcast to life, especially Julie Appelgren and Suzanne Young.

And thanks to Ngā Taonga and Mediaworks for some of the archival audio.

AI was u...