The Pivot

What if the goal of the Christian life isn't to escape this world — but to welcome the next one into it? N.T. Wright, one of the world's foremost New Testament scholars and author of 87 books, joins Andrew Osenga on The Pivot for a conversation as warm and wide-ranging as it is theologically rich. Tom traces the arc of a life shaped by choir stalls in northeast England, Scripture Union camps in the Scottish Highlands, and a decades-long love affair with the Bible that has never stopped surprising him. He unpacks the central argument of his new book, God's Ho...

What if the thing we're most trying to protect our kids from is exactly what they need? Sissy Goff and David Thomas — children's therapists, co-hosts of Raising Boys and Girls, and founders of Daystar Counseling — join Andrew Osenga on The Pivot to talk about their new book Capable and the growing crisis of capability they're seeing in kids and teens. From the rise of anxiety and depression to kids who won't get their driver's license or text a new friend, Sissy and David break down what's going wrong, and more importantly, what parents can do about it. They talk abou...

Tim Timmons is a singer/songwriter, author, podcaster, pastor, cancer survivor, and—as of this year—the subject of a major motion picture. But this conversation isn’t really about the movie. It's about what it’s like to be Tim Timmons right now, in the middle of one of the busiest and most surreal seasons of his life. Andrew and Tim talk about what it means to stop working for God and start joining Him, why sorrow is a lot like manure (seriously), how Tim thinks about holding grief and gratitude at the same time, and what years of pract...

What if the problem isn’t that you don’t know enough, but that you’re trying to change alone? In this episode of The Pivot Podcast, Andrew sits down with psychiatrist and author Dr. Curt Thompson to explore the intersection of neuroscience, faith, and emotional healing. Together, they unpack why anxiety is often rooted in the feeling of being alone in our suffering and how real transformation happens through connection, not just information. Drawing from interpersonal neurobiology, Curt explains how relationships shape the brain and why healing from trauma, shame, and painful memories requires safe, consistent community.

In this episode of The Pivot, Andrew Osenga sits down with physician and author Lydia Dugdale to explore the surprising wisdom found in confronting mortality. Drawing from her book The Lost Art of Dying, Lydia shares what centuries-old traditions, modern medicine, and her experiences as a doctor in New York City have taught her about death, dignity, and living well. From pandemic hospital tents to ancient reflections on the “art of dying,” this conversation wrestles with life’s biggest questions and invites listeners to consider how an awareness of our finite days can lead to a richer, more meaningful life.<...

In this episode of The Pivot Podcast, Andrew sits down with James Martin—Jesuit priest, bestselling author, and editor-at-large at America Media—to talk about calling, career pivots, and learning to pray in the middle of uncertainty. Before joining the Jesuits, Father Jim worked in corporate finance after graduating from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, but a growing restlessness, and the writings of Thomas Merton, led him to a radically different path. Together they explore discernment, suffering, spiritual dryness, and how ancient prayer practices can steady us during seasons of change. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes...

In this episode of The Pivot, Andrew talks with Kelsey McGinnis—a musicologist, educator, and writer/editor for Christianity Today—about embracing life’s detours and letting go of the pressure to be perfect. Kelsey shares how she found her unexpected career by following her heart when her original plans fell apart, and how becoming a parent taught her to hold her goals loosely. She and Andrew dive into the messy reality of having multiple creative interests, exploring whether it’s better to focus on one thing or dabble in many, regardless of how others try to put you in a box...

Miracles! Cancer! Kelly Clarkson! Floods! Family! Oh yeah, and a book, too! On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by married couple Jason (Kelly Clarkson’s music director and former member of Sonicflood) and Rhonda Halbert, who have been through way more than their fair share of trauma—including shifting careers, three separate cancer diagnoses, a destroyed home, and loss after loss—and how they have used their creative outlets to process their experiences. They share what happens when you learn to let go and why it’s okay to ask big questions as you wade through complicate...

Fred Bahnson is a writer, essayist, and ordained minister whose work explores the intersection of faith, nature, and community. In this profound and far-ranging conversation, Fred and Andrew discuss the adventurous spirit of Thomas Merton, wrestling with the notion of original sin, and finding an “embodied experience” of faith rooted in the natural world. Fred shares how his work—from his book Soil and Sacrament to his recent films and essays for Emergence Magazine—is an effort to present a vision of Christian faith that challenges common stereotypes, focusing instead on the larger story of what God is doing and how...

In this week’s episode, we sit down with Matt Markins, president and COO of Awana, a global organization dedicated to guiding children toward a meaningful life through mentorship and community partnership. Matt shares the poignant childhood experiences—including the day his father left—that set him on a path defined by the powerful influence of caring mentors. He discusses how those early connections shaped his deep-seated passion for helping kids discover lasting values and a strong inner compass. Matt offers practical ways for adults to foster deep, meaningful connections with the next generation, underscoring the critical role of intent...

In this week’s episode, Andrew Osenga sits down with friend and musician Josh Wilson to discuss his journey of personal and professional change. Josh shares why his answer to “What have you changed your mind about and why?” is profoundly different now than it would have been four years ago. He opens up about his past struggles with alcohol addiction and anxiety, and how his decision to speak publicly about these experiences became a significant pivot in his life and career. Discover how embracing vulnerability and seeking help transformed his songwriting and approach to his artistry, leading to his la...

This week on The Pivot, we had a heartfelt conversation with Robert and Lori Crosby as they shared the vital work of their Reach Hurting Kids Institute. They opened up about what it truly means to apply a trauma-informed lens to ministry, explaining how shifting our perspective is key. Instead of seeing trauma-related behaviors as something to be taken personally, they teach us to see them as opportunities—chances to uncover deeper feelings and support a child’s path toward healing. Robert, with his researcher’s insight, and Lori, with her therapist’s heart, emphasize the power of a relation...

Creator of the beloved series VeggieTales Phil Vischer, whose influence impacted generations of children, joins The Pivot to talk about what happens when you build something incredible, only to watch it fall apart. Phil opens up about what to do when you discover that you’re not as important as you think you are, how to let God save you from your own ambition, and how to cope with devastating failure in order to turn around and build the life you were meant for—free from what others might think. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“All I wanted...

This episode with Ashley Cleveland came out in January 2018—the first time Andrew ever met Ashley. This interview had such a profound impact on Andrew that he’s referenced it again and again throughout the years, and we wanted to re-share it with you as we look to a New Year. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“I quickly became an alcoholic and a drug addict, but I also became a musician. I started getting a positive response, whereas everything prior had been pretty negative. So I look upon it as this marker that God gave me to keep m...

Join Andrew for a really special end-of-the-year episode as he opens up about the creative work he put out in 2025. He shares some honest reflections about what he learned this year, what didn’t quite work out, and what he’s hoping to carry with him as we step into the new year. We’re talking about how to truly learn from those inevitable failures, seeing them as a chance to redesign the life we want, and the difficult but necessary process of letting things go. And, perhaps most importantly, he’s sharing why carving out space for both rest and...

Lead singer of The New Respects and author Jasmine Mullen joins The Pivot for a walk down memory lane, revisiting a beautiful childhood, the band members who turned into family, and a unique form of childhood rebellion: playwriting (and yes, they talk about her adorable play about how the star of Bethlehem was chosen). Jasmine and Andrew reminisce about their younger selves, when Andrew was first working at a record company and met Jasmine, when neither of them knew what they were doing. Jasmine opens up about the strong bonds that have shaped her life and career, and made...

Writer and speaker Liuan Huska joins this episode of The Pivot to share her studies on anthropology and her venture into journalism, as well as her book on reconciling chronic pain and illness with faith. Liuan shares about her family’s year-long travels through South America, her work with Christian conservation organization A Rocha, and reflects on how to find wholeness in the middle of life’s challenges.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“I just got more and more concerned about environmental issues, just being a human in this world today and noticing things and being sad abou...

On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by Beth Felker Jones, writer and professor of theology at Northern Seminary, and the mastermind behind the Church Blogmatics Substack, where she explores theological themes through storytelling. Beth shares about her journey to becoming a professor, her approach to teaching topics like sexuality to her students and what she’s learned by listening to their stories, and her perspective on the personal nature of our relationship with God. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“I remember quite early in my life wishing I had a cool, dramatic conversion story. I...

Pastor and author Claude Atcho joins The Pivot to discuss the challenging transition from a large, established church to a smaller, new gathering. He explains how this move required him to shed the role of a seasoned veteran and embrace starting over as a newbie. Claude shares insights into the difficulties of driving significant change for one’s family, especially when the decision seems counterintuitive on paper, and offers advice on prioritizing learning and growth over the comfort of established competence.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“I remember as a kid really enjoying going to the librar...

On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by Andrew Torrance, Professor of Theology and Co-Director of the Logos Institute for Analytic and Exegetical Theology. Andrew shares about his work with the Scientists in Congregations program that opens up avenues for conversations between faith and scientific communities to learn how they can work together for a better understanding of the world and of our place in it. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“[Science] is not a threat to faith, but it’s something that can really be an important part of the life of the church.”...

In this powerful episode of The Pivot, Andrew sits down with fellow Christian musician and songwriter Ross King. In this interview (recorded before he lost his wife Staci to cancer), Ross shares how significant traumas—including his father’s drowning and his wife’s cancer diagnosis—have profoundly changed his loyalties to his own mindset. He discusses the nuanced process of grief, not just for what is lost, but for “the life we wanted,” and the challenging honesty of songwriting through profound suffering. This candid discussion explores how unexpected challenges can lead to difficult but ultimately redemptive personal adjustments, fostering de...

In this episode of The Pivot, Andrew sits down with Marty Solomon, president of Impact Campus Ministries and the co-creator, executive producer, and cohost of The BEMA Podcast. Marty discusses his passion for working with college students and how diverse academic perspectives helped him construct a more accurate and comprehensive understanding of the Bible that is true to its origins. He also explores what an unfiltered version of Christianity entails and emphasizes the importance of building personal theology around the principle of loving others.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“If you are a college kid or you’...

On this week’s episode of The Pivot, Andrew sits down with designer, author, and cohost of Fixer to Fabulous, Jenny Marrs. Jenny reflects on the unexpected path to her current career, emphasizing how learning through trial and error shaped her understanding that there’s no single right way to do things. She shares the importance of slowing down, acknowledging past experiences, and approaching life with an open-handed mindset. It’s about recognizing that every good thing, every opportunity, every phase, can shift, and we need to be okay with that, trusting that what comes next, even after challenges, can be...

In this episode of The Pivot, host Andrew Osenga welcomes singer/songwriter and author Sarah Kroger. Sarah opens up about overcoming people-pleasing and perfectionism, a belief that extended to her relationship with God. Through therapy and self-reflection, Sarah reveals how she discovered the gift of boundaries, understanding it as an act of self-love and protection. This powerful pivot transformed her personal life, allowing her to embrace her identity as a writer and artist with authenticity. Join Andrew and Sarah for a conversation that delves into faith, creativity, friendships, and mentorship.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“If you...

This week on The Pivot, we’re joined by our long-time friend, the incredibly talented musician and songwriter, Andy Gullahorn. While Andy is still a full-time musician—a career he’s passionately pursued for years—he’s approaching it in wonderfully different ways. We dive into the stories behind his fantastic new record, Winning Streak, and how his unique approach to songwriting often includes those signature left hooks that can make you laugh and cry in the same breath. Andy shares insights into the unexpected circuit of his career, from playing music at intensive therapy retreats where he now co-leads s...

Welcome to The Pivot—relaunched! Joining us this week is Pete Enns, author, Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, and cohost of The Bible For Normal People podcast. Pete emphasizes that his response to the question "What have you changed your mind about and why?" is constantly evolving, mirroring his own personal growth. He explores how embracing change respects both our human experience and individual journeys. The discussion also reveals how God, and faith broadly, accommodates questions rather than offering definitive answers.

Thought-Provoking Quotes: 

“I’ve changed my mind on a lot...

It’s a brand new season for The Pivot—hosted by artist, producer, songwriter, and author Andrew Osenga. This podcast delves into the idea of changing our minds in an age of polarization and unyielding beliefs. 

The Pivot offers a space for honest, vulnerable, and intelligent conversations about the evolution of thought, belief, and life path. From personal growth to shifts in worldview, from navigating complex social issues to rediscovering spiritual truths, Andrew and his guests will explore the courageous journey of re-evaluation. This isn’t about promoting indecision, but celebrating the wisdom found in intellectual humility and aut...

If you follow a Christian woman between the ages of 20 and 40 on Instagram, then you’ve 1000% seen Morgan’s work. She does these beautiful, inspiring, super shareable quotes and thoughts over wonderful artwork and once they get to the internet they just go EVERYWHERE.

I remember seeing Morgan play music once or twice when one of her previous careers overlapped with my orbit. But who would have thought that she’d one day call herself a POET and be doing what she’s doing now, running her own business with the books, journals, stickers, and who knows what els...

MY GOODNESS. I loved this conversation.

Douglas McKelvey is a most fascinating human. He’s the author of two incredible books of liturgies, the second actually releases this week and is called Every Moment Holy, Vol. 2: Death, Grief and Hope. He’s also a fantastic songwriter who doesn’t sing or play music, but has penned the lyrics to over 350 songs recorded by a variety of artists including Switchfoot, Kenny Rogers, Sanctus Real, and Jason Gray. He’s been a scriptwriter and video director and a lot of things in between.

Like me, he’s a father o...

Lynn Holloway was an Imagineer for Disney and has designed all kinds of amazing things, from theme parks to Danish parades to Super Bowl halftime shows. He’s a visual storyteller working in three dimensions and his work is fascinating.

But this is really more of a love story; How a fear of intimacy left him in years of loneliness, and how finally facing those fears in the shadow of his father’s passing, set him on a new path towards love, family and healing.

Unlike a lot of my guests, Lynn’s career has been a...

After 20 years as a singer/songwriter, Jill Phillips went back to school to get her Masters in counseling and is now a full-time Marriage and Family therapist (who still plays music!)

To anyone who knows Jill at all, this career transition is not surprising. She is an incredibly wise and empathetic friend to many, and even her songs are often based on the themes of carrying each other’s burdens, and holding grief and hope together in the same hand.

We were originally going to do this interview in her new counseling office, so I co...

Rob Touchstone is co-founder of The Well Coffeeshop, a chain of non-profit coffeeshops who donate their profits to providing clean water wells to communities in poverty all over the world. (It’s also just a really good coffeeshop.) Besides that, Rob is an entrepreneur, a business professor, and a pastor here in Nashville, TN.

This is a great story, how Rob moved from being a theologically trained youth pastor to the creator and Director of Lipscomb University’s Center for Business As Mission, where he teaches and mentors students to think missionally about business and entrepreneurship.

A...

David Zach is an abolitionist in a rock and roll band. He has traveled all over the world, going undercover to help rescue girls from slavery and sex trafficking. It’s a wild story.

But 9-to-5, David is the frontman for the band, Remedy Drive. The band started as four brothers and we got to talk about how they had to quit being in a band together to be good brothers. It is also a pretty wild story. Maybe not quite as wild as going undercover in a Thailand nightclub.

It was really fascinating to le...

I’m not sure exactly when I started following Michael Wear’s work. I think I just gradually noticed that a lot of people I respected continued to quote him and reference him, so I had to go see who this guy was.

Well, it turns out, this guy is pretty dang amazing. The headline is that he led the faith outreach for Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign, served in the White House, leading evangelical outreach and helping to manage The White House’s engagement on religious and values issues. That’s pretty awesome.

But what drives all...

This conversation I had with Justin McRoberts was one of my favorites in a long while. I took a few great practical things away from this, as well as just deeply enjoying the time.

Justin’s work has taken on many shapes over the years: pastor, author, singer/songwriter, YoungLife guy, career coach, podcaster… but at the heart of it, he’s really done one thing this whole time. You’ll have to listen to find out what it is.

Also, his books on prayer: “Prayer” and “May It Be So”, are very much two of my favorites...

Stu G. The legend. Like many of us, I first learned about Stu through his epic guitar presence in the band, Delirious, who basically introduced the world to modern worship music.

Over the years I have heard people talk about Stu in hushed whispers and deep reverence. People don’t just like his guitar playing; This is a guy who carries deep respect. About a year and a half ago I started to find myself in the same rooms and got to know him just a little and I understood immediately that this guy was a deep we...

Songwriter, author, recording artist, mother… These are just a few of the hats Cindy Morgan wears. As a songwriter she’s been a part of many more songs than you would imagine, from artists like Vince Gill, India.Arie, Rascal Flatts, Ricky Skaggs, Amy Grant, Mandisa to Brandon Heath, Sandra McCracken, Josh Garrels, Sierra Hull, and EchoSmith. As you’ll learn, Cindy just writes ALL the time.

I’ve gotten to work with her musically a few times in various places over the years and it’s been wonderful. But more than that, she has been a clear and...

FRIENDS!! It has been a long time!! I did not intend to take this long between episodes, but between the election and a little Christmas covid (all recovered now, thankfully) it’s felt like a good time to take a little break. But we’re back now with a GREAT one!!

Professor Paul C. H. Lim (PhD, Cambridge) is associate professor of the history of Christianity (Divinity School) and affiliate professor of history (College of Arts & Science) at Vanderbilt University, and is an award-winning historian of Reformation - and post-Reformation Europe. One of his books, Mystery Unveiled: The...

Santosh John is from India and now lives in Atlanta, where he recently founded the3CG.com - a ministry for people of a Third Culture, who don’t live in their birth or heritage country but also don’t quite fit into the culture in which they live in now.

This was the first ever LIVE episode of The Pivot. Santosh John and I got to have this conversation as a part of the Rabbit Room’s virtual 2020 Hutchmoot Homebound conference.

We got to talk about exile, family, science, 90’s radio jams, Rich Mullins and Caed...

It’s safe to say that not many kids grew up more deeply in the bubble of evangelicalism than Barnabas Piper. It’s led to some amazing books: about being a pastor’s kid, about doubt, and about having the ability to ask hard questions of God.

Now Barnabas is an author, a father, and a new pastor after two decades in the book publishing business. He wrote a new book called “Hoping For Happiness” as he was making that career change.

I love that he calls himself a “recovering cynic”, as that’s a phrase I’ve atta...