Leadership Quotient

40 Episodes
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By: The Crucible

Leadership Quotient, powered by The Crucible, explores the people side of private equity—how operating partners, portfolio executives, and advisors build, align, and scale leadership teams. Each episode offers candid conversations from across the PE ecosystem on the strategies, challenges, and decisions that drive value creation.

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Cybersecurity as a Growth Strategy: Leadership, Risk, and AI
#62
Yesterday at 3:00 PM

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Robbie Tyrie, Founder and Managing Director of Torridon Cyber, about the evolving role of cybersecurity in business leadership. Drawing on his experience across financial services, technology, and entrepreneurship, Robbie shares why cybersecurity should be considered a business enabler rather than simply a defensive function, and how proactive risk management can support growth and build confidence among customers and investors. They also explore the leadership lessons Robbie has carried throughout his career, the importance of developing talent through calculated risks and learning from failure...


The Leadership Handoff: Succession, Readiness, and Managing Change
#61
10/13/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Billy Goldberg, Founding Partners of The Buckeye Group, about the complexities of leadership transitions in middle-market and investor-backed companies. Drawing on his experience advising founders and executive teams, Billy shares why succession planning requires more than identifying the next leader, how curiosity, adaptability, and communication contribute to successful transitions, and why preparing the broader organization is just as important as developing the incoming executive. They also discuss the challenges of transferring authority, the distinction between confidence and arrogance, and how intentional...


What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: Leadership in Investor-Backed Companies
#60
10/06/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Seth Garber, CEO of Pest Daily, about what it takes to lead through growth and investment. Drawing on his experience building and exiting businesses across multiple industries, Seth shares how adaptability, pattern recognition, and a willingness to keep learning shaped his approach to leadership. He and Lindsay discuss why successful founders can struggle after taking on outside investment, the balance between conviction and adaptability, how fear of failure can undermine performance, and why strong leadership is critical to turning an investment thesis into...


Building the Leaders of Tomorrow: Confidence, Resilience, and the Courage to Lead
#59
09/29/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Sarah Jakle, founder of DemocraShe, about developing the next generation of leaders and why leadership development may need to begin much earlier than we think. Sarah shares how DemocraShe works with young women to build the confidence, resilience, and practical tools required to navigate self-doubt, failure, disagreement, and high-pressure situations. She and Lindsay explore the difference between genuine inner confidence and arrogance, why fear of failure can be both motivating and limiting, and how learning to move through discomfort can shape stronger leaders...


Beyond the Paycheck: Leadership, Retention, and Investing in the Whole Person
#58
09/22/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Larry and Cheri Salazar of NestSTEPS about the connection between leadership, employee well-being, and retention.

Larry and Cheri share why they built NestSTEPS to turn homeownership into an employee benefit and how investing in employees beyond the workplace can strengthen loyalty, productivity, and financial well-being. The conversation explores why leaders need to see employees as whole people, what entrepreneurship has taught them about resilience and adaptability, and how passion, purpose, and accountability shape growing organizations.

They also discuss what...


Building a Business Worth Buying: Leadership, Talent, and Preparing for Exit
#57
09/15/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Heather Barber, co-founder of Buy-Scale-Sell, about building, scaling, and ultimately selling a business to private equity. Heather shares the lessons she learned growing Queen of Wraps from an emerging concept into a highly recognizable brand, including why developing talent from within became critical to the company's growth and how building a versatile, high-performing team ultimately differentiated the business during private equity due diligence. The conversation also explores the emotional realities of exiting a founder-led business, preparing a company for sale, creating a business...


The Leadership Fit Problem: Why the Best Resume Doesn’t Predict the Best Leader
#56
09/08/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Dr. Kelly Kinnebrew, Lead Assessor and Team Coach at K2 Organizational Psychology, about what effective leadership assessment actually requires. Drawing on her work across organizational psychology, executive assessment, and cross-cultural leadership, Kelly explores the balance between confidence and humility, why charisma can be mistaken for leadership capability, and how cultural context influences the way leaders behave and are perceived. The conversation also examines the danger of “pendulum hiring” after an executive fails, why private equity firms need relevant comparison data when assessing leaders, and...


Beyond the All-Star Team: Leadership, Complexity, and Building for Fit
#55
09/01/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Alex Garcia-Ingrisano, Co-founder & Managing Partner at Avantgard Group, about leadership, team construction, and navigating complexity across private equity, venture capital, and cross-border M&A. Drawing on his experience as a founder, investor, and M&A advisor, Alex explores why venture capital and private equity often optimize for different types of leaders, how cultural differences shape communication and decision-making, and why adaptability and honesty become increasingly important when working across borders. The conversation also examines the growing value of comfort with complexity in an...


Leading From the Future: Speed to Value, Human Potential, and Scaling Through Change
#54
08/25/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Cassandra Shea, founder of GSCG.AI, about developing leaders for where a company is going rather than where it has been. Cassandra shares how leaders can shorten time to value by connecting individual growth with business strategy, why identity and capacity shape a person’s ability to change, and how greater transparency around revenue can create more ownership throughout an organization. The conversation also explores intellectual honesty, employee engagement, the changing meaning of work, and how leaders can reverse engineer the future to ma...


Beyond the Numbers: Why Culture, Integrity, and Operational Judgment Drive Value
#53
08/18/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Robert Garcia Checchia, CFO at Benzinga, about the evolving role of the CFO in private equity-backed companies and why financial expertise alone is not enough to drive value. Drawing on a career spanning operations, investment banking, M&A, and private equity-backed businesses, Robert discusses the importance of trust, loyalty, and integrity in leadership; why CFOs need to understand how the business actually operates; and how behavioral dynamics influence decision-making. The conversation also explores M&A integration, why cultural fit should come before projected...


Hiring for the Outcome: Cultural Fit, Talent Strategy, and the Value Creation Plan
#52
08/11/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Andrew Henry, Managing Partner at JM Search, about executive talent as a critical lever for value creation in private equity-backed companies. Andrew shares why cultural fit can matter more than direct experience, how the operating demands of PE-backed businesses differ from those of public companies, and why hiring should begin with the value creation plan rather than an ideal résumé. The conversation also explores team construction, the growing need to consider talent from adjacent industries, and why AI can strengthen an executive’s wo...


Why We Built The Crucible: The Missing Piece of Leadership Assessment
#51
08/04/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, we're sharing a recent conversation between Lindsay Guzowski and Dave Trueira from the GrowthLogic Podcast. Lindsay discusses why she founded The Crucible after seeing traditional leadership assessments repeatedly miss the mark in investor-backed companies. The conversation explores why leadership success is contextual, how team dynamics influence performance, and why evaluating leadership teams—not just individual executives—can lead to better hiring, stronger development, and greater value creation.


Beyond the Spreadsheet: How Great Operating Partners Create Value
#50
07/28/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski sits down with Mike Magliochetti, Operating Partner at RS2 Healthcare Partners, to discuss what separates exceptional operating partners from the rest. Drawing on decades of experience as both a CEO and private equity operating partner, Mike explains why trust between sponsors and management teams matters, how operating partners can create tangible value beyond the boardroom, and why helping portfolio companies grow revenue—not simply monitoring performance—is where real value creation begins. The conversation explores leadership in investor-backed companies, founder transitions, building executive teams, operational playbooks, AI adoption across port...


The Gray Tsunami: Leadership, Succession, and Business Readiness
#49
07/21/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Paul Visokey, President and Founder of Stony Hill Advisors, about preparing businesses for successful transitions, the coming wave of business-owner retirements, and the leadership decisions that maximize long-term value. Paul shares lessons from decades of entrepreneurship, commercial lending, and M&A advisory, discussing why customer focus matters as companies scale, how leaders should prepare years before an exit, and why the right time to build a sellable business is long before it's on the market.


Leadership Under Pressure: Prioritization, Team Fit, and the Founder's Dilemma
#48
07/14/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Tony Medrano, CEO and Founder of LongevityPlan.AI, about the realities of entrepreneurship, leadership, and building resilient organizations. Drawing from decades of experience as a founder, executive, and AI entrepreneur, Tony shares lessons on navigating failure, aligning incentives with investors, prioritizing what truly matters, and assembling teams that outperform through complementary strengths rather than individual brilliance. The conversation also explores how emerging AI tools are changing leadership while reinforcing that curiosity, adaptability, and strong judgment remain enduring competitive advantages.


Beyond the Company: Growing Leadership Through Stronger Ecosystems
#47
07/07/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Ellen Chang, Managing Director at CapZone Impact Investments, about why long-term value creation depends on building ecosystems, not just individual companies. Drawing on leadership experience from the U.S. Navy, Northrop Grumman, and impact investing, Ellen shares why great leaders make people feel heard and seen, how patient capital changes the way investors think about leadership, and why collaboration often creates stronger outcomes than zero-sum competition.


The Right Buyer: Leadership, Fit, and Successful Exits
#46
06/30/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Gregg Blake, Managing Director at CapM Advisors and Managing Partner at Brocair Partners, about the leadership dynamics behind successful mergers and acquisitions. Drawing on decades of experience advising healthcare and life sciences companies, Greg explains why the right buyer is often more important than the highest valuation, how founders should prepare long before beginning a sale process, and why trust, relationships, and leadership quality continue to shape transaction outcomes. The conversation also explores the growing need to move beyond intuition toward a more...


Shooting the Closest Alligator: Leadership in Fast-Growth Environments
#45
06/23/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, Founder and CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Shelby Faubion, Founder and Managing Partner of Vector Advisory, about the leadership disciplines that enable companies to scale successfully through growth and acquisition. Shelby shares lessons from his experience in post-merger integration and CFO advisory work, including why intellectual curiosity is essential for leaders, how culture can determine the success or failure of a deal, and the importance of accountability, structure, and consistent operating rhythms. The conversation explores the challenges facing lower middle market companies, the hidden cost of "integration debt,"...


Confidence Through Challenge: Leadership, Scarcity Mindsets, and the Power of Exposure
#44
06/16/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski speaks with Leticia Souza, CFO at SAVii and angel investor with Epic Angels and GVAngels, about the leadership lessons learned from building a bootstrapped startup into a venture-backed business and ultimately through acquisition. Leticia shares why early wins are critical for developing confidence, how scarcity mindsets shape decision-making, and what she looks for in founders as an investor. The conversation explores adaptability, resilience, culture during acquisitions, and why increasing your exposure to opportunity is often the only variable leaders can truly control.


Leading with Awareness: Empathy, Execution, and the Future of Value Creation
#43
06/09/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with John Sirianni, owner of Deep Tech Strategies, about leadership, organizational resilience, and the human factors that drive performance in investor-backed companies. Drawing on nearly four decades of experience across aerospace, cybersecurity, venture-backed startups, turnarounds, and M&A, John shares lessons on empathetic awareness, team design, and navigating growth through uncertainty. The conversation explores why understanding what others need for success is a leadership advantage, how strong teams are built around future objectives rather than current needs, and why operational excellence and resilience will...


Built for Uncertainty: Entrepreneurship, Failure, and Productive Tension
#42
06/02/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Rishad Usmani, physician, angel investor, and serial entrepreneur, about the realities of building companies in environments where outcomes are uncertain and success is never guaranteed. Drawing from his experiences as both a practicing physician and startup founder, Rishad explores the fundamental differences between medicine and entrepreneurship, including the role of risk tolerance, failure, and decision-making under ambiguity. The conversation examines what founders often get wrong when building teams, why hiring should be a deliberate and rigorous process, and how complementary skill sets create...


Being Real: Leadership, Trust, and Investing in People
#41
05/26/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Uzair Bawany, CEO at Oii.ai, about leadership, entrepreneurial mindset, and why great businesses are ultimately built around people. Drawing from a career spanning executive search, fintech, and AI-driven supply chain innovation, Uzair shares lessons on hiring for entrepreneurial thinking, building cultures rooted in transparency and trust, and helping people operate at their highest potential. The conversation explores why ideas account for only a small portion of success compared to execution, how strong leaders create environments where teams can thrive, and why empathy...


Developing One Life: Leadership, Learning, and Lasting Impact
#40
05/19/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of The Crucible, speaks with Aian Guanzon, Chief Marketing Officer at Global Dominion Financing, about leadership, long-term vision, and why relationships remain at the center of value creation. Drawing from a career path that spans nursing, tech support, advertising, insurance, fintech, and finance, Aian shares how systems thinking and service-oriented leadership shaped his approach to building teams and developing people. The conversation explores the importance of humility, listening, and lifelong learning in investor-backed environments, as well as the challenge of communicating long-term strategy across stakeholders with different experiences...


Founder Evaluation: Leadership, Transparency, and Venture Risk
#39
05/12/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski, CEO of the Crucible, speaks with Heath Naquin, Senior Vice President of Innovation and New Ventures at University City Science Center, about the realities of venture investing, the importance of pattern recognition, and why leadership today requires continuous learning and adaptability. Drawing from a nonlinear career path spanning startups, real estate investing, venture ecosystem development, and global fund creation, Heath shares lessons learned from both successes and failures. He explains why venture capital is fundamentally about risk management, how investors assess founder teams beyond the pitch deck, and why transparency, coachability...


Hiring for the Future: Leadership Lessons from Private Equity
#38
05/05/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Giacomo Sonnino, Advisory Director at Charlesbank Capital Partners, joins The Crucible CEO Lindsay Guzowski to discuss how private equity firms can create more value, faster, by building leadership teams with intention. Drawing on a career that spans engineering, strategy, McKinsey, and operating roles inside growth businesses, Giacomo explains why great leadership is not about fitting a single mold, but about understanding what a business needs in a specific moment and aligning talent accordingly. He and Lindsay explore why clarity is one of the most important drivers of performance, how...


Built on Curiosity: Deep Tech, Humility, and the Undervalued Opportunity in Latin America
#37
04/28/2026

In this episode of Leadership Quotient, Lindsay Guzowski speaks with Pedro Lopez Sela, Managing Partner at FrissOn Capital, about why Latin America and the Global South are often systemically undervalued in venture capital, despite producing resilient founders, strong science, and overlooked deep tech opportunities. Pedro shares how curiosity shaped his entrepreneurial path, why humility and gratitude are critical leadership traits, and how his team evaluates founders by working alongside them before investing. He also discusses the role of purpose in decision-making, the limits of AI as a substitute for experience, and why the best entrepreneurs pair deep obsession with...


The Sum of Vectors: Building Leadership Teams That Actually Move Forward
#36
04/21/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Lindsay Guzowski sits down with Andrey Kostyuk, General Partner and CEO at AAlchemy Ventures, to discuss what it really takes to build leadership teams that can adapt, align, and grow in investor-backed companies. Drawing on his experience as a founder, investor, and mentor, Andrey explains why great leadership depends on active listening, matching the right people to the right roles, and understanding that perseverance only works when it is balanced with agility. He and Lindsay explore why so many startups fail because of founding team conflict, how leaders can...


Distribution Beats Product: Leadership Lessons from Corporate Venture
#35
04/14/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Kelvin Tan, CEO at Audax, joins The Crucible CEO Lindsay Guzowski to discuss what it really takes to build and lead a corporate venture-backed business. Drawing on his experience spinning a technology platform out of Standard Chartered, Kelvin explains why some internal innovations are more valuable as independent companies, how leadership changes when you move from operating inside a large institution to running a venture from the ground up, and why resilience matters more than expertise in the early stages of building. Kelvin and Lindsay explore the tension between...


Relentless and Adaptive: What Sets Exceptional Founders Apart
#34
04/07/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Anna Magiera, Managing Director of Partnerships at ICLUB, shares how an accidental entry into venture became a long-term commitment to building the future through founders, investors, and ecosystems. Drawing on experience across consulting, private equity, startups, and venture investing, Anna explains why patience and humility matter so deeply on the investor side, and why the most exceptional founders are not just ambitious, but determined to reinvent systems rather than simply optimize what already exists. She and Lindsay explore the leadership traits that distinguish standout entrepreneurs, including adaptability, resilience, healthy...


Nurture Capital: Rethinking Leadership in the Age of AI and Quantum
#33
03/31/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Sunil Goyal, Managing Director and Fund Manager at YourNest Venture Capital, shares how decades of experience in capital markets and operating leadership shaped his philosophy of “nurture capital” and what that means for backing deep tech founders in India today. Drawing on lessons from IPOs, private equity, and venture investing, Sunil explains why leadership fundamentals do not change across company stages, but become more demanding in entrepreneurial environments where there are no safeguards and purpose must supply the energy that brand and scale cannot. Sunil and Lindsay explore how Your...


Betting on the Jockey: Leadership, Culture, and Long-Term Capital
#32
03/24/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Andrew Donald, Director at RAF Equity, shares how a long-term investment model changes the way investors evaluate leadership, culture, and growth. Drawing on experience across eBay, Jefferies, McKinsey, and private equity-backed operating environments, Andrew explains why who you work with matters as much as what you build, and why culture becomes a critical lever for long-term value creation. He and Lindsay explore what makes RAF’s evergreen structure different from traditional private equity, how leadership teams can be evaluated for alignment rather than simply replaced, and why the firm pr...


More Women at the Top: Leadership, Performance, and the Power of Listening
#31
03/17/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Patricia Lizarraga, Chief Investment Officer of the WCEO ETF and Managing Partner at Hypatia Capital, shares why she believes women CEOs should outperform on average and what that reveals about leadership, resilience, and value creation. Drawing on her experience in investment banking and nearly two decades building Hypatia, Patricia explains how structural barriers shape the path women take to the top, why that longer and often harder road may produce stronger leaders, and how her team built an investment methodology designed to isolate and measure the performance of women...


The Refusal to Lose: Tenacity, Storytelling, and Founder Leadership
#30
03/10/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Ben Narasin, Founder of Tenacity Venture Capital, shares how a lifetime of entrepreneurship shaped his view that the true differentiator between success and failure is not just intelligence, opportunity, or even vision, but tenacity. Drawing on his path from early ventures as a child to building FashionMall.com and later launching one of the earliest institutional seed funds, Ben explains why the entrepreneurs worth backing are the ones who simply refuse to stay down. Ben and Lindsay explore how disdain for losing, frugality, and resilience show up in founder...


Slow to Invest, Fast to Scale: Building Resilient Founder Teams in LatAm
#29
03/03/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, The Crucible CEO Lindsay Guzowski sits down with Eduardo Amadeo, Venture Partner at Overboost and Kamay Ventures, to explore what leadership looks like inside the venture ecosystem—especially through a Latin American lens. Eduardo shares his path from building Argentina’s early entrepreneurship programs to raising funds, and why serious investors earn trust by investing time, showing professionalism, and staying transparent with founders from the first conversation (whether they invest or not). They dig into the power of “slow” investing as a way to test resiliency, coachability, and urgency—highlighte...


Great Followers Make Great Leaders: Military Lessons for Founder Success
#28
02/24/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Steve Kiser, General Partner at Veteran Ventures Capital, joins The Crucible CEO Lindsay Guzowski to explore what veteran leadership brings to venture-backed companies—and why character traits like integrity, selflessness, and a “no-fail” mindset can be as decisive as skill. Steve shares his unexpected path from 21 years of military service to managing over $100M in assets, and explains why the military teaches followership before leadership, producing leaders who emphasize the collective and lead people—not “manage” them. Together, Steve and Lindsay discuss the challenges veterans face when transitioning out of the milit...


The Clock Is Ticking: Leadership in PE-Backed Companies
#27
02/17/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Andy Drummond, Founder of ShireGrowth Partners, joins The Crucible CEO Lindsay Guzowski to explore what leadership requires when time is finite and the clock is always ticking in private equity-backed businesses. Drawing on experience across SC Johnson, industrial distribution, and multiple PE-backed operating roles, Andy explains how the shift from “planning in decades” to “planning for exit in three years” changes decision-making, urgency, and execution expectations. Andy and Lindsay dig into one of the most common breakdowns between investors and operators—when value creation levers look great on a spreadsheet but play out v...


Backing Women: What Investors Miss and How to Fix It
#26
02/10/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Hanim Dogan, Partner at Prime Advantage Capital Partners, angel investor, and venture partner, shares why enabling more female founders is both a leadership imperative and a value creation opportunity, and what investors often miss when evaluating early-stage teams. Drawing on her journey from founder (including an early software exit) to investor and advisor across multiple ecosystems, Hanim explains why the global investment community is smaller than people think, how trust and relationships shape access, and why authentic leadership presence matters as much as the pitch deck. Hanim and Lindsay e...


Empathy at Scale: Keeping the Customer at the Center
#25
02/03/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, David Norton, Managing Director at Gale Partners, shares why empathy is one of the most underrated leadership strengths and how customer-centered thinking becomes a competitive advantage in investor-backed environments. Drawing on a career that spans American Express and the brand transformation era at Caesars Entertainment, David explains how leaders can combine analytical rigor with creativity to turn insight into action, build momentum inside complex organizations, and earn trust across functions. David and Lindsay explore what it takes to drive transformation without burning relationships, including why “points on the board” matt...


The Right Way Is the Only Way: What Great CFOs Teach Leaders
#24
01/27/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Jeff Glick, Head of U.S. Operations at Outsourced CFO (OCFO), shares why in investor-backed environments “the right way is the only way” and how financial rigor becomes a leadership advantage. Drawing on a career that spans internal audit, global M&A and integration, private equity diligence, and decades as a CFO, Jeff explains how strong controls and trustworthy reporting create the foundation for better decisions, better valuations, and ultimately better outcomes. Jeff and Lindsay explore what great finance leaders look for when assessing management teams, including how leaders resp...


Atoms Over Algorithms: Why the Future of Venture Is Physical
#23
01/20/2026

In this episode of the Leadership Quotient Podcast, Deborah Magid, Co-Founder and Managing Director at NextStar Venture Partners, shares why leadership is ultimately defined by the opportunities you create for other people—and why trust sits at the center of both numbers and relationships. Drawing on her path from GE to IBM’s corporate venture world and into building a new fund, Deborah explains how her background in cognitive psychology shapes how she evaluates founders: not just on experience, but on how they engage, build credibility, and influence others across an ecosystem. Deborah and Lindsay explore why remo...