The Off-Ramp Project

30 Episodes
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By: Karla McLaren

How do we create (and survive) drastic changes? How do we leave unhealthy relationships, groups, belief systems, or entire identities? How do we take off-ramps when the crowd is pushing us forward, and how can we learn to create off-ramps for others -- especially when we've been taught to see them as our enemies? These questions are crucial in a time when so many of us have been drawn into polarized belief systems and conspiracy theories that are tearing apart families, friendships, political parties, and the foundations of American governance itself. But change and reclamation are possible at any time...

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The Secret Heart of Violence
The Secret Heart of Violence episode artwork
#14
Today at 4:00 PM

There is a secret heart inside violence, but most of us are taught to avoid violence, which means that we don't tend to learn much about it.

In this episode, I explore the conditions that create healthy forms of violence and the conditions that make violence frakked up and a losing game for everyone.

Violence has an important purpose, and it can be understood and addressed intelligently. In fact, people (and animals) have been studying and responding to violence skillfully for centuries.

We can take an off-ramp from abusive and violent relationships, ideologies...


Avoiding Hierarchies of Human Worth
Avoiding Hierarchies of Human Worth episode artwork
#13
06/25/2026

Hierarchies give us ways to grade things and put them in order, which is helpful -- UNLESS we use them to grade human beings.

What I call "hierarchies of human worth" create unnecessary trouble for everyone.

At this painful and chaotic time in American history, we are struggling under multiple hierarchies of human worth: race, gender, sexual orientation, wealth level, and religiosity, to name a few.

Each of these hierarchies damages the emotional functioning, empathic capacities, and social functioning of everyone trapped within them. UNLESS people understand how these hierarchies work and how...


Seeking the Deeper Story
Seeking the Deeper Story episode artwork
#12
06/18/2026

Knowing the deeper story -- in a time when the stories we're told tend to be shallow and manipulative -- is a way to reclaim your humanity, your emotions, your empathy, your attention, and your power.

It's also a way to reclaim the humanity of the people who have been set against you -- as you have been set against them -- as a way for the people in power to control us all.

Well, sorry neither! There is a deeper story here that needs to be told so that we can reclaim ourselves, each...


It's All about Power
It's All about Power episode artwork
#11
06/11/2026

When I talk about taking an off-ramp -- from a group, a relationship, an ideology, a way of living, a way of doing anything -- I'm really talking about retrieving yourself and retrieving your power.

In this time of end-stage capitalism, an out of control attention economy, and the burden of multiple, abusive "hierarchies of human worth," it seems that everything wants to control our time, our attention, our thoughts, our emotions, our empathy, and our lives.

Well, sorry neither. Because each of these things belongs to us. And none of them are for sale...


How to Reclaim Your Emotions
How to Reclaim Your Emotions episode artwork
#10
06/04/2026

Your emotions belong to you, but they are also for sale in the attention economy and in end-stage capitalism. Many people are making a great deal of money by jacking into your emotions and manipulating your empathy for their own gain.

But there are things you can do to reclaim your emotions and yourself. In this time of intentional chaos, emotional and empathic manipulation, and manufactured polarization, reclaiming your emotions is a crucial and life-giving activity.

Here are some ideas to help you reclaim your emotions and listen to their wisdom.

Mentioned in...


Embrace Ideas, not Ideologies
Embrace Ideas, not Ideologies episode artwork
#9
05/28/2026

Ideas have fluidity; they can change and be added to, and they can be wrong, and that's fine. It's just an idea; we have thousands of them.

But ideologies become rigid very quickly, and they tend to become hierarchical (they claim to be the best, such that other ideologies are not worthy), which means that the people who have signed up for them may have a very hard time taking off-ramps from them.

Ideologies can also lean very cultic, because they often become transcendent belief systems, which is one of the four aspects of cultic...


What About Socialism?
What About Socialism? episode artwork
#8
05/21/2026

Socialism is a bogeyman term for a lot of people on the right -- just as fascism is a bogeyman term for a lot of people on the left.

So let's look at what socialism is, why it was developed, how it contrasts with capitalism and communism, and how it can moderate the most damaging excesses of capitalism.

Many countries combine capitalism and socialism in some way. The two systems don't need to cancel each other out (in fact, they can work very well together), but if people are telling you that these two systems...


But Is This Fascism?
But Is This Fascism? episode artwork
#7
05/14/2026

Here in the United States, the word "fascism" is being thrown around a great deal, and when I went to study the history of fascism, I found it being propped up by a large number of "fifteen-dollar words" that are unnecessarily complex.

I also found that historians and social scientists are arguing about what fascism is -- to this day -- even though the Italian Fascist government (the original Fascists) and the related German Nazi government were defeated and removed from power by 1945.

No one alive today would be silly enough to call their own...


Cult Talk with Dr. Janja Lalich!
Cult Talk with Dr. Janja Lalich! episode artwork
#6
05/07/2026

Dr. Janja Lalich and I talk about cults (we are both cult survivors and cult researchers) and we meander through these topics:

Why people join:

The main thing that attracts people to cults is their own idealism. Most people are recruited into cults by friends and family. Making enemies and monsters on the outside is one way that cults keep people trapped.Isolation is a key way that cults and abusers control people; if you're a concerned person on the outside, keep the lines of communication open if you can. Don't argue about the cult or...


The Soothing Nature of Hatred
The Soothing Nature of Hatred episode artwork
#5
04/30/2026

During a grief ritual I was teaching, I got a question about hatred on one of my YouTube videos, and it helped me see how soothing and orderly hatred can be.

In a time when we're losing so much, and things feel out of control, the simple act of hating and adoring people can give us structure in an otherwise overwhelming time of chaos and loss.

Idealizing and adoring our leaders -- or hating and dehumanizing them -- these polarized acts can soothe us, even though they're not healing, and will lead to mountains of...


It's Not the Patri; It's the Archy
It's Not the Patri; It's the Archy episode artwork
#4
04/23/2026

One of the ways you can tell that a social structure is unhealthy (and even cultic) is by the presence of what I call "hierarchies of human worth."

The suffix "archy" means "to rule" or "to be first." Hierarchies are rigid structures that grade and order things from first to last, and if we apply order to things, hierarchies can be very useful.

Think of the PEMDAS hierarchy that helps you make sense of mathematical equations, or the flowchart hierarchy of a good computer program. Equations and programs simply wouldn't work without hierarchical processes.

<...


Can you Be a Off-Ramp for Everyone?
Can you Be a Off-Ramp for Everyone? episode artwork
#3
04/16/2026

There will be situations where you can't be an off-ramp, and it's important to face them and know where your edges are.

It's also impotent to have temporal empathy for yourself -- which is the capacity to hold a vision of yourself figuring things out one day. It's okay to fail, and as the Tao de Ching says, "The glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time you fall."

I mention Braver Angels in this episode, and they are here: https://braverangels.org/our-mission/

And the marvelous book by David...


Your Empathy is NOT for Sale
Your Empathy is NOT for Sale episode artwork
#2
04/09/2026

In this time of end-stage capitalism, when everything is for sale -- our time and attention, our emotions, and our empathy -- it's important to know that we have a choice.

Empathy is not simply the ability to feel alongside people; it's our capacity to interact with anything -- people, animals, art, literature, music, concepts, ideas, and even inanimate objects. Our capacity to empathize is a part of our capacity to interact and make sense of our world.

If people ask you to drop your empathy (completely, or toward people and groups), they're asking you...


Welcome to The Off-Ramp Project
Welcome to The Off-Ramp Project episode artwork
#1
04/02/2026

In a time when our emotions, our empathy, and our loyalties are being manipulated constantly -- and when we're being pitted against each other for the benefit of the people in power -- how do we find our way back to ourselves and each other?

How do we reclaim our good minds, our empathy, and our emotional lives so that we can face the serious troubles in our world together, with courage, camaraderie, hope, and a sense of humor?

And how can we do that when we're surrounded by intentional chaos, polarization, dehumanization, and intense...


Becoming an Off-Ramp
Becoming an Off-Ramp episode artwork
#16
11/27/2025

Episode 16: How do we create off-ramps for ourselves, and become able to offer off-ramps for other people -- especially people we're being urged to distrust, hate, or even dehumanize?

In the 16 episodes of this season, we've looked at some of the complex factors that have led us to this polarized and endangering time of emotional manipulation, cultic mechanisms of control, cruel hierarchies of human worth, and the constant manipulation of our attention and our emotions in this time of unregulated endstage capitalism. It's a lot.

But it's not everything.

There are things we...


Growing Beyond the Politics of Contempt
Growing Beyond the Politics of Contempt episode artwork
#15
11/20/2025

In this episode, I'm joined by authors Doug Teschner and Beth Malow to talk about their new book: Beyond the Politics of Contempt -- and it's such an important book for our polarized and contempt-filled times.

We've been taught to polarize ourselves and see difference as absurd or dangerous, and we've been invited to show contempt for people who don't believe or vote as we do.

These are social injuries, and they require social solutions. Doug and Beth talk about their book and their work as Braver Angels volunteers and leaders -- which has helped...


Listen to Your Own Depression
Listen to Your Own Depression episode artwork
#14
11/13/2025

Your situational depression is an essential emotion that helps you become aware of realities you may have been avoiding, and it removes your ability to move forward doing the wrong thing with the wrong intentions for the wrong reasons at the wrong time.

Sadly, we've been taught to see our situational depression as an unwanted thing -- a psychiatric disorder, and something not to be trusted. This is such a shame.

Sadder still, when the intelligence in our situational depression is not available to us, we can be vulnerable to people who want to control...


Working with Your OWN Shame
Working with Your OWN Shame episode artwork
#13
11/06/2025

Episode 13: Many people avoid shame, but don't realize that in so doing, they avoid growth, empathy, evolution, and becoming truly themselves.

It's essential, then, to understand the difference between your own chosen, appropriate, and necessary shame versus the shame-blame that people use to control or abuse you.

In this episode, we look at ways to know the difference, and what to do if your essential and life-giving shame has been hijacked by abusive, controlling, and unhealthy messages.

Books and practices mentioned in this episode:

The Eyes of Horus by Joan Grant...


Reclaim Your Shame
Reclaim Your Shame episode artwork
#12
10/30/2025

Episode 12: Many of us have been chased away from shame, because it seems to cause nothing but pain.

However, shame itself is a crucial social emotion that helps you become an upright and empathic person who cares about others and has a strong sense of ethics.

The key to working with shame is to understand the difference between shame that helps you maintain your morals and ethics, and shame-blame that is thrown onto you by others. The blaming form of shame is actually, and simply, abuse.

Reclaiming your own true and healing shame...


Retrieve Your Panic
Retrieve Your Panic episode artwork
#11
10/23/2025

Episode 11: Your panic is powerful, and if you don't know how to work with it, other people can grab its power to fuel their own ideas, their own movements, and their own ends.

But be aware: If people are grabbing onto your emotions, especially the powerful, life-saving emotion of panic, they don't in any way mean you well.

Your emotions belong to you, and no one should be jacking into them. The first step in retrieving your panic is to understand what it does, how it works, and how to work with its immense power...


The Magic of Hatred
The Magic of Hatred episode artwork
#10
10/16/2025

Episode 10: Hatred is a powerful emotion, and as it is with anything powerful, it's a double-edged sword. It can be a astonishing force for good. No kidding.

We're seeing hatred everywhere, and it's a sign of trouble throughout our species. If you don't know how to work with your hatred, its power can wound and destroy. This is especially true if you've been manipulated into hatred, because this is a form of emotional abuse that destabilizes and weaponizes you.

And of course, being manipulated into hatred is never done with your health or well-being in...


The Healing Power of Stress
The Healing Power of Stress episode artwork
#9
10/09/2025

Episode 9: You don't need to avoid stress. In fact, avoiding it is a truly bad idea if you want to do anything worth doing, or be of help in difficult times.

And in fact, stress is a weasel word that hides the essential emotions that arise to help us deal with trouble. Learning to reframe stress, name it properly, and work with it intentionally can improve and deepen every part of your life.

And in times of trouble, it is our willingness to face difficulties head on -- with all of our emotional skills available...


Episode 8: How Do We Reclaim Our Better Angels?
Episode 8: How Do We Reclaim Our Better Angels? episode artwork
#8
09/25/2025

Episode 8: There's something you can do right now to support yourself in this time of intentional chaos and intense polarization.

The Braver Angel's organization is a nationwide group of people who have come together to help us learn how to talk to each other again. And to learn how to disagree and be in conflict without tearing each other apart.

No one wins when we're pitted against each other like this, and Braver Angels will give you a place -- right now -- to reclaim the better angels of of your nature so that we...


Episode 7: What Can We Do?
Episode 7: What Can We Do? episode artwork
#7
09/19/2025

Episode 7: What can we do when polarization, dehumanization, and unhealthy mechanisms of control are at play?

We can understand the powerful forces that are acting upon us, and do the work to become well-informed, emotionally whole, and prepared to reduce polarization, emotional manipulation, and dehumanization inside us, and in the world around us.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Missing the Solstice by Karla McLaren: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F6TRWRBZ

Escaping Utopia by Janja Lalich and Karla McLaren: https://www.routledge.com/Escaping-Utopia-Growing-Up-in-a-Cult-Getting-Out-and-Starting-Over/Lalich-McLaren/p/book/9781138239746


Episode 6: Who Leads You?
Episode 6: Who Leads You? episode artwork
#6
09/11/2025

Episode 6: Healthy charismatic leadership involves being willing to learn from others, instituting checks and balances, maintaining a sense of humor and a sense of humility, being responsive to complaints and corrections, and treating people well and respectfully.

When the charisma of a person or group is healthy, people are drawn to it and invigorated by it. When it’s not, their choices get tangled up with the leader’s need for total devotion and control.

Breaking away from toxic charismatic authority is hard work, but it can be done, and people can learn how to iden...


Episode 5: Who Influences You?
Episode 5: Who Influences You? episode artwork
#5
09/04/2025

Episode 5: Influence is everywhere, and it can be heathy or unhealthy. Here are ways to know which is which.

SIGNS OF HEALTHY SYSTEMS OF INFLUENCE

The system helps people feel welcome and important to the group as they are. The system encourages healthy community, teamwork, and camaraderie, as well as open discussion and debate about group projects, goals, and decisions. Members are role models for each other, but internal competition is a choice rather than a requirement. Individual hard work and excellence are celebrated, and are attributed to the individual. The group encourages self-awareness and personal...


Episode 4: Who Controls You?
Episode 4: Who Controls You? episode artwork
#4
08/28/2025

Episode 4: Who Controls You?

In healthy groups and relationships, members retain their own sense of what's right, their own voices, their intellectual freedom, and their own ideas. In healthy groups, the systems of group control are healthy and nourishing.

In unhealthy groups, the systems of control will demand high dedication, high intensity, self-silencing, intellectual sameness, and extreme perfectionism. In unhealthy groups and relationships, the systems themselves are abusive.

But there is no need to create systems of control that are high-demand or abusive. Healthy groups and relationships are everywhere, and learning about what...


Episode 3: How Do You Believe?
Episode 3: How Do You Believe? episode artwork
#3
08/21/2025

Episode 3: It's not what you believe. It's how.

In this episode, we're exploring the first aspect of Janja Lalich's Bounded Choice model of cultic control: The Transcendent Belief System.

If you don't understand high-demand, high-dedication, high-intensity, self-sealed, and cultic belief systems, you can fall into one very easily. Or more than one!

We look at multiple transcendent beliefs, which are not exclusively religious or spiritual. Any belief system can fall into perfectionism and rigidity, and any belief system can imagine itself to be the best thing ever. Ways of eating, ways of learning...


Episode 2: Your Emotions Are Not for Sale
Episode 2: Your Emotions Are Not for Sale episode artwork
#2
08/14/2025

Episode 2: Your emotions are the foundation of who you are, and in this episode, we look at how advertising, marketing, social media, and anyone who wants to influence you accesses your emotions as a matter of course (and as a matter of business).

Becoming aware and skilled with your own emotions certainly benefits you and your relationships, but it can also protect you from manipulation and help you develop a deep form of social intelligence.

Sadly, in endstage capitalism, our emotions are being monetized, and we're being funneled and fomo-ed into someone else's machine.

<...


Welcome to The Off-Ramp Project!
Welcome to The Off-Ramp Project! episode artwork
#1
08/11/2025

Episode 1: How do we create (and survive) drastic changes? How do we leave unhealthy relationships, groups, belief systems, or entire identities? How do we take off-ramps when the crowd is pushing us forward, and how can we learn to create off-ramps for others -- especially when we've been taught to see them as our enemies?

These questions are crucial in a time when so many of us have been drawn into polarized belief systems and conspiracy theories that are tearing apart families, friendships, political parties, and the foundations of American governance itself.

But change and...