The HR Life Podcast

What does a foreman burning a coworker with a cigarette have to do with a submarine imploding two and a half miles under the Atlantic? On this episode, Tony and Steve sit down with Bryan McCurdy, HR Director at Hughes General Contractors, to find out. Bryan didn't set out to work in HR (nobody really does, apparently), but nearly twenty years later he's running people operations for a seventy-year-old, third-generation family construction company He explains why he failed a forty five minute personality test at Target during a Christmas hiring push, why the traditional job posting is broken, and...

The guys sit down with Rhonda and Jacob from Weltrio and talk maximizing effective use of benefits.  Rhonda and Jacob give the history of Weltrio and how they are helping companies manage their plans.  What would happen if you didn't have a group open enrollment meeting this year and instead sat down and had a personal conversation with every employee?  Why are HR people so afraid of change or rocking the boat?  The discussion also turns to the recent DisruptHR event in Salt Lake City and reviews that said only vendors and consultants were in attendance. 

Learn...

Ryan Kohler, founder of Applicant Pro, joins the guys and blows Tony's mind in the first minute of the podcast.  As Tony picks up pieces of his skull, Ryan unfolds the nature of AI, what it is really capable of, and the opportunity HR has to drive the AI bus in American business.  In this episode you'll learn the real impact AI will have on your company, what job searches will look like in the future, the future of purchasing software, and what the dramatic reduction in intelligence costs means for your future. 

The Hosts of thi...

Joe Tate got into HR because his handwriting was better than the other guy's. He left one of his biggest roles because he refused to let his HRIS manager take the fall for a company-wide data breach. And somewhere in between, he built Boost HR, mentored hundreds of professionals through his six-week HR essentials course, and took a ski trip to Japan that ended up reshaping the way he thinks about people, culture, and the kind of workplace we all say we want but rarely build. Tony, Steve, and Joe cover a lot of territory in this one: why...

Tony and Steve welcome Aric Bostick, keynote speaker, former classroom teacher, professional crowd-energizer, and the man Steve publicly credits for telling him to get on a stage when he was just some guy with a book idea and a lot of enthusiasm. Aric brings the science of attachment theory out of the therapy room and drops it straight into your org chart.  You'll learn why people leave companies that pay more to work somewhere they feel seen. Why your resting face is already sending a message to your team (it's probably not the one you want). Why "soft skills" i...

Steve and Tony attended the Fuel HR conference on May 14, 2026.  They talked the EEOC's case against the NY Times, diversity, and interviewed several attendees. The most pertinent piece of advice they got from the conference is "If you're going to discriminate, don't advertise and document it."  

Note: There were two interviews that were lost due to computer and sound issues.   We apologize to those two people and will get them back on the show soon.  

On a more positive note, Steve and Tony introduced a lot of people to LimeRickys.  

A CEO returns to his struggling startup, looks around at the wreckage, and decides the HR team is the problem. He fires them. All of them. Then tells the world about it at a conference. Tony and Steve have opinions. Surprising, nuanced, occasionally loud opinions, and they're not entirely on the side you'd expect.  In between the Star Wars tangents and Tony's deep philosophical feelings about performance improvement plans, the guys also tackle AI: what most HR professionals are doing wrong, why Reddit is a terrifying foundation for legal advice, and how to actually use these tools without accidentally t...

Tony and Steve welcome Derik Clark — Army counterintelligence veteran, body language expert, and apparently a crowd favorite on par with Steve (high praise). Derik breaks down his HEED framework for reading nonverbal cues in HR investigations and job interviews, and why the thing you think you're seeing (lying) is almost never the thing you're actually seeing (discomfort). He also shares the true story of an Iraqi weapons smuggler who had perfect body language… until someone asked him where he was getting his money. Tony connects the dots to workplace investigations, written warnings, and why 80% of every workplace conflict story is a...

Tony and Steve kick off the show in full Star Wars mode — it's May the Fourth, Steve spent $19.77 on themed donuts from Lehi Bakery, and the great AT-AT pronunciation debate is finally settled (hint: Steve is wrong). The real guest of honor is Albert Foster, founder of Express Evaluations. The episode digs deep into one of HR's most stubbornly unsolved problems: why performance evaluations, invented in the 1950's, still look almost exactly the same today.  Albert lays out a compelling case for why most companies are doing evaluations wrong. From the one-size-fits-all form that means nothing to the employee who...

We're not choked up, you're choked up.  Wow!  The guys spend an afternoon interviewing students at JAG's (Jobs for America's Graduates) National Career Development Conference (NCDC).  In this episode, you'll hear how lives changed, doors opened, and how a group of young people is making the most of their opportunities, all because of JAG.

A list of Guests Interviewed:  Bailey, Jamarcus, Gabe, Madison, Caleb, James Jackson, and Lane Faulkner.   

Video of Steve getting an award (at Appx 1.48:10) here:  https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=2093927045342003&rdid=3ziMBc5LK1ucOUqR ...Oh, and Johnny C Taylo...

Steve and Tony talk international remote workers and retention methods with Troy Blanchard from ZConnect.  Steve talks about implementing COVID early and often.  Tony talks about Ford Verses Ferrari and how the bureaucracy so prominent in that movie was real... and was probably the fault of the CEO.  And finally, Tony introduces everybody to the "Slug Line" in DC. 

Learn more about Troy Blanchard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trblanchard/
Learn more about Zconnect at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zconnect-global-outsourcing/posts/?feedView=all or https://zconnect.biz/
Learn more about the Shingo Model at...

Tony and Steve break down parts of SHRM's annual State of the Workplace report, but only after venturing into stories of strange women playing footsies with Steve on a cruse.  Who is the most optimistic that employers are meeting the needs of their employees?  Employees, HR professionals, and HR Executives, are all in agreement that the second biggest need n the workplace is...?  Want to know what is happening now in HR?  This is your episode. 

Find the study at: https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/research/state-of-the-workplace-summary-and-report/2026-sowp-full-report

Join us at Fuel HR on Ma...

Tony and Steve talk about the state of HR, AI, eating catnip, and the fact that HR is both doing well and in trouble.  Tony's cynicism is both peaking and ebbing as he discusses HR with a wandering choo choo.  The guys discuss what is going on in the world of HR consulting and fractional HR.  Tony reads a post from Facebook and Steve gives a great HR in Life segment.  But don't drop out of the podcast early.  Steve makes a major announcement at the end of the podcast that you wont want to miss. 

Learn more a...

In this episode Tony and Steve tackle toxic work environments and Tony's fantastic ability to kill wasps from more than 10 feet away.  What is a toxic work environment? What role do front line managers play in creating or toxic environments?  Do front line managers or the C-suite have a bigger impact in your efforts to improve culture?  In this week's HR in Life Segment the guys talk about misunderstanding the meaning of ethics. Why do people mistake bad business decisions for unethical behavior?   

The five elements of Toxicity
Abusive
Disrespectful
Unethical
Cutthroat
Non-i...

In this episode Tony and Steve expose some insights into how to train your managers to interview.  What are they interviewing for? The guys debunk the myth that you can only ask the same set of questions in the exact same order to every candidate.  Steve sheds light on the number one things candidates complain about, the number one things interviewers complain about, and Tony loses his choo choo. Oh... And that is how long Steve's hair is right now.   

Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven “Big Deal”...

In this episode Steve and Tony discuss Steve’s Four Myths of HR and define the difference between administrative and strategic HR.  For HR professionals looking to contribute in a strategic manner at an executive level, this discussion forms a guide to what that entails.  Of course, the guys talk about Project Hail Mary and the upcoming He-Man Movie as well. 

The four myths:
HR is administrative
HR isn't data driven
HR is a cost center
HR is reactive, not proactive
 

Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegra...

Listen as Tony and Steve are once again joined by Andrea Hollingsworth.  In this fantastic episode Andrea lays out the SAFE Framework that helps HR and leaders cope with RIF's, Layoffs, and survivors.  They discuss how to survive extremely difficult conversations with those leaving the business and those who are staying.  They also touch on gamifying the workplace and performance reviews.

Quote of the episode: "Can we say chicks on the podcast?"  - Tony Benjamin

Learn more about Andrea Hollingsworth at: https://hollingsworthconsulting.com/
Get Andrea's book here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+...

In this episode Tony and Steve welcome back Rachel Child in iambic pentameter and great hazas to talk about the intersection of HR education and real-world practice. Rachel shares how she found her way into the profession — and what she’s seeing from the next generation of HR professionals.  This episode touches on leadership accountability, HR education, culture vs. compliance, the realities of entering the HR profession, and why the success of HR often starts at the very top of an organization.

This episode includes a new segment centered on a real world, short case study.  If you li...

In this episode of The HR Life Podcast, Tony and Steve sit down with Shaina Burgoyne to talk about something many HR professionals quietly wrestle with: stepping away from your career — and finding the courage to come back.  From navigating an acquisition at Omniture/Adobe to leaving the workforce to raise her children, to re-entering HR during COVID and rising into leadership at Domo, Shaina’s story is honest, practical, and incredibly relevant.  This one is about career gaps, imposter syndrome, women in leadership, the HR Business Partner model, burnout, AI, and why HR doesn’t have to be the buzz...

In this episode of The HR Life Podcast, Tony and Steve go from red couches and movie plot twists to one of the most important HR conversations happening right now: AI in hiring, reverse discrimination, and why the EEOC is very active.

If you think AI tools are just making recruiting easier, think again. From insider panic in the AI world to federal subpoenas and a groundbreaking lawsuit against Eightfold AI, this episode dives into the legal and ethical risks HR leaders can’t afford to ignore.

And yes… we still make time for dogs, Star...

In this episode of The HR Life Podcast, "Fantastic" Tony Benjamin and Stephen “Big Deal” Smith tackle one of the biggest villains in today’s job market: the Applicant Tracking System.  The guys kick things off with a slightly terrifying (and mildly hilarious) detour into rogue AI bots that call you when you ignore them — because nothing says “future of work” like software that won’t let you ghost it. If you’ve ever blamed “the system” for your job search frustrations, this episode might change your perspective — or at least help you understand what the guys on the other side of the scree...

In this episode the guys talk to Stacee Pedersen about everything from PEO's to groundhog day.  They talk about why PEO's don't work for many companies, why its harder sometimes for consultants to affect the daily operation of a company, and of course, Stacee's entrepreneurial rise to power.  The guys introduce a new segment called HR In Life.  What happens when your star performer runs off every supervisor she has? Why are the Baltimore Rat Birds... errrrr... Baltimore Ravens, headed to their doom?  Listen to the episode and find out. 

Learn more about Stacee Pedersen at: https://www.m...

The guys talk to Ben Eden about HR practitioners view of themselves, how to begin to build trust when you have a seat at the table, his partnership with SHRM around the PMQ+, and other brilliant things you'll have to listen to the podcast to learn.  Steve introduces listeners to Vinagaroons and what happens when they sting you as well as recounts his recruiting days on Tatooine.

We want to thank the children who provided the fun background sounds.  (No children were hurt in the recording of this podcast.) 

Learn more about Ben Eden at: htt...

Amy Adler has the proof that she's the best resume writer in the world.  The guys talk to her about professional resume writers, the first resume ever written, pink jeeps, the scams that job hunters face, the state of HR, and a lot more.  What is the worst word you can use on your LinkedIn profile? Find out in this fantastic episode.   

Learn More about Amy Adler at: https://fivestrengths.com
Schedule a meeting with Amy at: https://fivestrengths.com/thehrlife
Find Amy on LinkedIn at: https://linkedin.com/in/amyladler

Learn more abou...

In this episode the guys lay out SHRM's dirty laundry for everybody to see.  They discuss the $11.5M case specifics, the rumored toxic work environment at national SHRM, and how politics play into it all.  It needs to be said.  They mention the HR Besties podcast and critique their takes and the attempts of some to take down SHRM and its local affiliates. 

Learn more about Tony "Two Weeks' Notice" Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about our sponsor MegastarHR at: https://www...

The guys talk to Karisa Stahle about I9's, 1099 Employees, and how to do audits during an incredibly difficult time.  The guys check in with Karisa on the state HR, talk AI a little, and talk about how to go about an I9 audit.  Where to start and how to keep everybody calm when you let them know you need to redo some paperwork. 

Learn more about Karisa Stahle at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karisa-stahle-mba-shrm-cp-23395950/
Learn more about Tony "Two Weeks' Notice" Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smi...

The guys talk to Tracie Kalmar about how tough it was to work with Steve (which she claims was great), building culture, cutesy stickers, interviewing for humility, and a lot more.  Listeners get an update on Steve's cat flooding his bathrooms and Tony gets exposed for saying the word fantastic too much.  The guys introduce a new charity you can work with and the word strategic gets said more often than you'd expect. 

Learn more about Tracie Kalmar at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracie-kalmar-09b043121/
Learn more about Tony "Two Weeks' Notice" Benjamin at: https://www...

The guys talk to Mark Tolman, a company side employment attorney, and the most common EEOC complaints, executive orders, and some legal updates.  Learn about Muldrow v. City of St. Louis and other cases.  Did you know that you can get a restraining order against former employees and others who make threats?  Who files more of those than anybody else in Utah? Oh... and the episode isn't boring! 

Learn more about Mark Tolman at: https://parsonsbehle.com/people/mark-d-tolman or https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-tolman-2b70a7a/
Learn more about Tony "Two Weeks' Notice" Benj...

From our families to yours, Merry Christmas!  The guys give you an insight into their personal lives by having their wives on the podcast.  Does Steve sometimes leave off the true ending of the story?  Why does Tony respond slower now instead of just saying the first thing that pops into his head?  Listen to the podcast and find out.  Get an insight into the cardinal rule of the podcast and where it came from. 

A special thank you to Alicia Smith and Rachel Benjamin for joining the podcast and your support.  We can't do this without you!  <...

This is the episode Steve's been teasing for more than a month!  Tony and Steve talk compassion with Andrea Hollingsworth.  Listen in as Andrea crowd surfs the "live studio audience" and dispels the idea that compassion is a lot of workplace hugs.  The guys talk to her about the difference between empathy and compassion, and discuss the fight or flight response generated when employees don't feel safe. Andrea's insights feed a deeper understanding of the workplace. 

Learn more about Andrea Hollingsworth at: https://hollingsworthconsulting.com/
Get Andrea's book here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+comp...

The guys talk to Weslie Porter, Director of People Analytics for the State of Utah, and he drops some amazing stats that have the ability to change how you view HR.  Wes gives some amazing insights into motivation, dissent, and the actual role of human resources.  From artillery specialists in the Army to private sector employees just onboarded, how do you gather data and build excellence?  Find out in this episode. 

Learn More:
Learn more about Weslie Porter at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weslie-porter-mpa-20504612b/
Learn more about Tony "Two Weeks' Notice" Benjamin at: http...

The guys talk to Desma and Elrona D'Souza, the "HR Sisters" and owners of S&K HR Consulting.  What is it like to live in a country where 80% of the population is imported?  What is similar between HR in Dubai and the US, what is different?  If you give somebody a bobblehead of Tony in Dubai is it a positive thing or not? 

Desma D'Souza - After spending over 15 years building a successful corporate career, Desma D’Souza took a bold leap into entrepreneurship after a transformative sabbatical. Today, she serves as Managing Partner at S&K HR Con...

This episode includes the long awaited announcement of the theme of the 2026 Work Elevated Conference.  JoyLynn Jeppson joins the guys to announce the theme (which is NOT Steve Smith), tell her story and remind of how sexist the '90's were.  The episode was delayed when Tony damaged the original recording and it had to be rerecorded.  JoyLynn shares data that came out of the 2025 conference, explains the shifting reasons people attend conferences, and asks for volunteers. 

You can learn more about Joylynn Jeppson at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joylynn-jeppson-a87149142/
Learn more about Tony "Two Week...

In this week's episode, the guys talk with Tami Bajema about the revolutionary idea that weaknesses are just strengths turned up a little too high.  Tami talks about helping people find their Super Powers (the intersection of what they're good at, what they like to do, and their perseverance/marketability) starting in elementary school and during interviews.  She talks about what happened when she discovered that there wasn't a labor pool for the kind of skills she needed and how an accredited tech school came out of it.  We also discover in this episode that Steve fought at the bat...

In this episode Tony and Steve attack how to take over a dysfunctional HR department or start a department of one.  They coin a new phrase, "Eat the Otterpops", discuss how to build recruiting on a solid foundation, and have a lot of fun along the way.  Steve gives some incredible new insights into what demotivates employees with some new research from iSolved, and explains why employees refer their friends to work for the company.  Nothing or nobody is out of bounds in this episode. 

Link to the iSolved Research the guys discuss: https://www.isolvedhcm.com/reso...

Claire Lizear joins the podcast from 6 Mile to talk HR burnout, the trap that many HR professionals find themselves in, who HR should report to, how she screens applicants, and of course, horror stories.  All this with Claire's fiery sense of humor and incredible insight.  Tony shares a favorite harassment complaint.  Claire explains what 8 Mile, 6 Mile, and 5 Mile are near Detroit and we find out that Steve is a recording star.
Viva La Kiss Cam: https://youtu.be/OW5WDT40-Ow

Claire Lizear, SHRM-SCP, is an experienced HR leader with a passion for creating workplaces where peo...

Alison Avila joins the guys to test the theory that no matter what intro Tony gives about Steve, it will turn out to be true.  They also discuss perfectionism in HR Pro's, nicknamed horror stories, and why some staffing companies succeed when others don't. 

Alison is the Director of Human Resources at Your Employment Solutions (YES), a Utah-based staffing agency where she has led HR strategy and growth since 2013. With a Bachelor’s and Master’s in Human Resources from Utah State University, she’s spent her entire professional career in the staffing industry, helping YES grow from a s...

The guys talk Steve's missing Star Wars ornaments and Vision Mission Values with the Empty Red Seat.  Why your vision, mission, and values form a critical component in your recruiting, onboarding, and engagement.  This discussion is the central focus of Tony’s consulting services and the bleeding edge recruiting techniques that Steve presents at conferences around the country and in his book.  

Why is your mission changeable? What are values and why are they valuable?  AND… how does that relate to football?  Baseball?  Basketball?  

Learn more about Tony “Two Weeks’ Notice” Benjamin at: https...

The guys talk to Steve Jaffe, author of the book The Layoff Journey: From Dismissal to Discovery.  The discussion moves from statistics of the increasing numbers of people caught in layoffs, to some of the pitfalls of using an ATS fully screen applicants.  Recovering from being caught in a layoff is a journey and this episode looks at it from 100 different angles including HR’s.  

Born and raised in sunny San Diego, Steve began his writing journey at San Diego State University, where he earned a bachelor’s degree in journalism and communication. After a 25-year ca...

Recorded live at The Work Elevated Conference, this episode will shock you into a smile.  After another brilliant introduction, the guys talk to both organizers and attendees at the conference.  Rachel Child joins the podcast again and talks about working at the conference, Karisa Stahle then talks about turning over the reigns to Joylynn Jepson who also joined and promised to first release the theme of next year’s conference exclusively on the podcast.  Attendee Carl McCain talks to the guys about winning a TV at last year’s conference along with what he learned about being kind to others...