Leadership Unlocked: Delegate Better, Build Accountability, Lead Your Team
Leadership Unlocked is a leadership podcast about the moments that shape how real leaders grow. Hosted by executive coach & strategist Dusty Holcomb, it features real stories and honest conversations with CEOs, founders, and senior leaders navigating real-world challenges and growth. Each episode delivers real-world leadership insights, stories from leaders in the field, and practical tools for high-performing teams—making it a must-listen for anyone serious about leadership development. Whether you're leading a company, a team, or yourself, you'll walk away with something you can use right now. New episodes weekly. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or visit ArcqusGroup.com/po...
Work-Life Balance Is a Myth—Ask Yourself These 3 Questions Instead - E56
Dusty goes solo to dismantle one of leadership’s most persistent myths—that work-life balance is something you can achieve and maintain—and replaces it with a more honest and actionable model: balancing as a daily discipline. Sparked by a question about staying present amid competing demands at work and home, he introduces a practical operating system built on three decision “gates” and two critical permissions. Through the lens of burnout research and a deeply personal story reflecting on the lasting impact of a colleague named Sarah, Dusty reframes urgency, showing that most of what feels pressing won’t matter over...
Are You Tired of Being Tired as a Leader? | Eric Collett - E55
Dusty sits down with Eric Collette, CEO of A Mind for All Seasons, for a wide-ranging and deeply practical conversation on how leaders can optimize brain health to sustain performance, extend longevity, and lead more effectively. Grounded in both research and real-world case studies, Eric challenges the fatalistic belief that cognitive decline is inevitable, instead outlining a “system of systems” approach that addresses root causes—metabolic health, sleep, stress, nutrition, movement, and even dental hygiene—to improve brain function today while reducing long-term risk of diseases like Alzheimer’s. Through compelling stories, including measurable cognitive recovery in dementia patients, he demonst...
Tired of Your Team Always Guessing What You Want? Build This | AMA #2 - E54
Dusty goes solo in an AMA-style episode to break down how leaders can actually implement the Rules of Engagement framework introduced in episode 27, turning a powerful concept into a practical operating system for clarity and alignment. Drawing on years of leadership experience and real client stories, he frames the guide as a “leadership decoder ring”—a living document that makes implicit expectations explicit, eliminating guesswork around communication, decision-making, feedback, and standards. Through answering common fears—overwhelm, sounding too prescriptive, changing the rules midstream, or expecting too much—Dusty emphasizes progress over perfection, encouraging leaders to build and share a 70% complete v...
The Seven Issues Behind 95% of Leadership Pain | Dorothy & Garland Vance - E53
Dusty sits down with Garland and Dorothy Vance—co-founders of Unleashed Leadership—for a candid and insightful conversation about the difference between being remembered as a hero or a villain in the lives of those you lead. Drawing from decades spent researching, testing, and refining leadership development—from running a 15-year “leadership laboratory” inside a nonprofit to building their own firm—the Vances unpack the core philosophies that shape their work: humility, character, courage, and the responsibility leaders carry at the dinner tables of the people they influence. Garland introduces the provocative lens that every leader will be talked about in her...
Why Leaders Feel Busy but Not Effective: Attention Residue, Unspoken Expectations, and the Fix - E52
Dusty goes solo to unpack the invisible forces silently sabotaging even the most capable leaders—overwhelm, reactive schedules, and misaligned priorities. Anchoring his discussion in the stark warning from Levi Lusko—“if nothing changes, future you will be an exaggerated version of present”—he reveals how constant busyness without clarity only amplifies stress, burnout, and lost impact. Through the story of Robert, a senior leader trapped in reaction mode, Dusty illustrates the transformative power of a three-layered sequence: first, establishing foundational clarity on purpose and long-term vision; second, building alignment by making expectations explicit and securing genuine commitment; and third, cre...
If You Want Loyalty From Your Team, Start Here | Dawn Grooters - E51
Dusty sits down with Dawn Grooters—founder of Broken Vessel Sales Solutions—for a deeply personal and practical conversation about servant leadership, resilience, and the power of authentic connection in sales. After building a successful career as a field sales rep in the gift and home industry, Dawn’s life was forever altered when her 11-month-old son, Kale, passed away while she was on the road, forcing her to reimagine both her priorities and her profession. Choosing family, faith, and presence, she pioneered an inside sales model from home—one rooted not in transactions, but in meaningful human connection—discoverin...
10 Questions That Change How You Lead | AMA #1 - E50
In this milestone 50th episode, Dusty flips the mic toward the community and tackles the most persistent questions leaders have been sending his way—ranging from work-life balance and delegation to AI strategy, ownership culture, and CEO fundamentals. Rather than offering abstract theory, he delivers practical frameworks drawn from personal experience and real client work: why “balancing” beats the myth of balance, how refusing to ask for help actually robs your team of growth, and the three decision-making gates he uses to cut through daily noise. He unpacks how to build teams that think like owners by codifying purpose and st...
How Should Leaders Communicate the Kind Truth With Their Team | Mo Fathelbab - E49
Dusty sits down with Mo Fathelbab—former CEO, executive coach, and author of Forum—for a candid conversation about the transformative power of vulnerability in leadership. Drawing on his experience leading YPO forums and coaching high-level executives, Mo challenges the traditional command-and-control model, arguing that real influence is built not on authority, but on authenticity. Together, he and Dusty unpack why high-performing leaders often feel isolated at the top, how structured peer forums create rare spaces for honesty and growth, and why emotional transparency—when paired with accountability—drives both personal and organizational performance. Mo reflects on the pivotal moments...
Build Better Decisions Using Self-Awareness Others Ignore | Liesl Chang - E48
Dusty sits down with Liesl Chang—entrepreneur, systems thinker, and founder of Comeback Goods—for a wide-ranging conversation that explores how self-awareness, curiosity, and disciplined systems thinking shape meaningful leadership. Tracing her path from studying Russian history to building logistics infrastructure at high-growth startups like Zimments and Casper, Liesl reflects on the formative moments that redirected her career, including the loss of her father and a growing refusal to settle for work that lacked purpose. Together, she and Dusty unpack the hidden operational realities of e-commerce—especially the costly, overlooked problem of returns—and how that insight led Liesl to found...
The Three Building Blocks of Trust Most Leaders Miss - E47
Dusty goes solo to reframe one of leadership’s most misunderstood concepts—trust—arguing that leaders get stuck because they treat trust as something to earn or demand rather than something to build deliberately. Drawing from real coaching conversations, including a revealing case study of a newly promoted CEO who was burning out by staying too involved, Dusty shows how leaders often focus on whether others trust them while failing to demonstrate trust themselves. He introduces a practical three-part trust framework—relational trust, competency-based trust, and integrity-based trust—and explains how each requires a different leadership action: investing in people as...
The Lie Ambitious Leaders Believe About Identity & Success | Maricella Herrera - E46
She built her dream career, but then walked away. Dusty Holcomb sits down with Maricella Herrera—former COO and CEO of Elevate Network and host of the podcast Oh Shit, I Just Quit My Job—for an honest, deeply human conversation about identity, integrity, and the courage required to walk away from a life that no longer fits. From her early career in finance in Mexico to business school at Columbia and more than a decade helping build the world’s largest professional community for women, Maricella reflects on the mentors who shaped her, the leadership philosophy rooted in transp...
Why Willpower Fails—Create Sustainable Success With the ACT Framework | Lani Jones - E45
Dusty sits down once again with Dr. Lani Jones—clinical psychologist and executive coach—for a practical, no-nonsense conversation about turning good intentions into systems that actually produce lasting change. Building on their prior discussion about vision and planning, Lani introduces a clinically informed framework that begins with acknowledging your design: understanding your humanness, neurological wiring, and behavioral patterns rather than relying on sheer willpower or grit. Together, they explore why most goals fail at the execution layer, how blind spots and perfectionism quietly sabotage momentum, and why leaders must design environments, cues, and accountability structures that make success the...
Most Goals Fail—But Not With This One Shift in Planning | Lani Jones - E44
Dusty welcomes back Dr. Lani Jones—clinical psychologist, executive coach, and expert in behavior change—for a timely and deeply reflective conversation on how leaders can intentionally design success rather than defaulting to familiar but ineffective goal-setting habits. Moving beyond the fleeting appeal of New Year’s resolutions, Lani reframes planning as an exercise in clarity, alignment, and self-leadership, emphasizing that most people fail not from lack of discipline but from skipping the deeper work of understanding what truly matters. Together, they unpack a clinically informed framework centered on the where, why, and what—arguing that sustainable progress requires slowing...
Stop Accepting Pain as the Price of Success as a Leader | Scott Hogan - E43
Dusty sits down with Scott Hogan—former collegiate baseball player, injury-prone athlete turned founder, author, and recovery-focused entrepreneur—for a conversation that reframes leadership through the lens of physical resilience, self-awareness, and long-term sustainability. After a career derailed by chronic injuries, Scott traces how his obsession with understanding pain, recovery, and human performance led him to build Salt Wrap into a seven-figure company and author Built from Broken: A Science-Based Guide to Healing Painful Joints, Preventing Injuries, and Rebuilding Your Body. Together, Scott and Dusty explore how formative adversity shapes leadership philosophy, why most business and life constraints are phys...
Being Nice Is Killing Your Team—Here’s What to Do Instead - E42
Dusty goes solo to challenge one of leadership’s most damaging habits—the belief that being “nice” is the same as being effective—and makes the case that niceness is quietly starving teams of the truth they need to perform. Drawing from a powerful real-world example of a brilliant but overly restrained leader, personal leadership failures, and research spanning neuroscience, McKinsey, Gallup, and HBR, he exposes why most leaders aren’t actually giving feedback at all—they’re managing their own discomfort. Dusty unpacks the critical distinction between nice and kind, showing how nice protects the speaker while kind serves the team...
The Leadership Skill Horses Have Mastered That Most Humans Ignore | Amanda Dunklin - E41
Dusty sits down with Amanda Dunklin—equestrian coach, entrepreneur, and operational strategist—for a conversation that redefines what it means to lead with clarity, empathy, and resilience. After decades spent training horses, coaching competitive riders, building a school from the ground up, and later advising high-growth organizations, Amanda shares the insight that reshaped her entire approach to leadership: systems matter, but people matter more. Together, she and Dusty explore why emotional intelligence is learned, how consistency becomes a superpower, and why leaders must create environments where trust, safety, and communication come before timelines and tactics. Amanda traces her unlikely jour...
Why More Success Won’t Fix the Emptiness High Performing Leaders Don’t Talk About | Sean Keller - E40
Dusty sits down with Sean Keller—a filmmaker-turned-leadership coach who helps high-capacity entrepreneurs realize that their real wilderness isn’t around them, it’s within them. Sean shares his unlikely journey from early creative acclaim and big-name clients to the moment everything collapsed in 2020, forcing him to confront the gap between the successful life he was building and the surrendered life he actually wanted. Together, they unpack why achievement can mask emptiness, how pruning becomes a gift, and why leaders can’t outrun the inner stories that shape their decisions. With depth, candor, and a surprising amount of hope, Sean rev...
This Is How Top-Performing CEOs Manage Their Time & Calendar - E39
Dusty goes solo to dismantle one of leadership’s most pervasive myths—the idea that an overloaded, reactive calendar is simply the price of effectiveness. Drawing on personal lessons, client stories, and striking CEO time-use data, he reveals the deeper truth: when a leader’s schedule is chaotic, the culture follows. In this episode, Dusty introduces his three-level intentional leadership system—anchoring your year with non-negotiables, theming your days to eliminate context switching, and protecting transitions so commitments actually get done—and shows how each layer silently teaches your team what truly matters. Through a vivid case study of a CEO spen...
How Great Leaders Reimagine Pressure to Excel in High-Stakes Environments | Dr. Brian Hite - E38
Dusty is joined by Dr. Brian Hite—stunt performer, performance psychologist, and creator of the FACT Framework—for a conversation that reframes what it really means to thrive under pressure. With three decades spent being lit on fire, thrown from vehicles, training elite military units, and coaching high-stakes performers, Brian shares the pivotal realization that changed everything: pressure doesn’t live in the moment—it lives in the mind. Together, he and Dusty explore why failure is often the most valuable teacher, how our assumptions quietly shape our performance, and why the best leaders learn to separate the situation from the...
What Most Leaders Get Wrong About Scaling Their Business | Dustin Riechmann - E37
Dusty Holcomb sits down with entrepreneur and former engineer Dustin Riechmann, whose story is a masterclass in courage, clarity, and reinvention. From watching his business collapse in 2020 to building a seven-figure enterprise through the power of podcast guesting, Dustin reveals how simplicity, not complexity, drives sustainable success. He shares the pivotal moments that reshaped his identity, the leadership lessons born from adversity, and the mindset shifts that turned setbacks into systems. This is a powerful conversation for anyone seeking to lead with authenticity, scale with purpose, and transform failure into momentum.
Key Timestamps:
(00:00) - Simplifying...
Why Doesn’t Your Team Just Do Their Damn Job? - E36
Dusty goes solo to expose one of the most misunderstood frustrations in leadership—the belief that execution problems stem from lazy teams, when in reality they almost always originate upstream with the leader. Drawing from hard-earned lessons and a striking real-world example from his time at AAA, he reveals the hidden truth behind stalled initiatives: when your team isn’t delivering what you envisioned, it’s rarely an execution failure—it’s a clarity or alignment gap. In this episode, Dusty introduces his Exceptional Leadership Framework, a deceptively simple but transformative model showing that clarity plus alignment naturally produce the execut...
The Rule of 3 And 10 That Breaks Every Growing Business and Leader | Nolan Bradbury - E35
Dusty sits down with Nolan Bradbury, a former CPA turned financial strategist who helps leaders realize that their biggest challenge isn’t money, it’s clarity. Nolan opens up about his journey from Big Four accounting to finding purpose in helping entrepreneurs define what freedom truly means. Together, they explore how clarity transforms decision-making, why “more” doesn’t always equal success, and how simplicity, not complexity, creates lasting growth. With honesty, humor, and heart, Nolan shares powerful lessons on leadership, accountability, and the courage to listen to what really matters.
Key Timestamps:
 (00:00) - From CPA...
Build A Brand That Multiplies Your Vision Even When You’re Not In The Room | Alan McLaren - E34
Dusty Holcomb sits down with Alan McLaren, CEO, entrepreneur, marketer, and self-proclaimed “Chief Squirrel Tamer.” Alan shares his 35-year leadership journey, from selling photocopiers door-to-door to leading global organizations and shaping modern leadership branding. Together, they unpack the real meaning of heart-centered leadership, how authenticity fuels influence, and why kindness and accountability are not opposites but essential partners in high performance. This conversation is a masterclass in leading with integrity, clarity, and impact, both in business and in life.
Key Timestamps:
(00:00) - Lessons From Sales Leadership
(07:00) - Leading Yourself First
(11:00) - Bala...
3 Brutal Questions Every Leader Must Face to Break Through Their Ceiling - E33
Dusty goes solo to unpack one of the most pivotal turning points in a leader’s journey—the moment you realize that what got you here won’t get you where you’re meant to go next. Through raw personal stories and years of coaching senior leaders, he reveals the hidden signals of an inflection point: when the clarity in your head doesn’t translate into team execution, when every decision funnels back to you, and when you quietly sense you’ve hit the ceiling of your current capabilities. In this episode, Dusty introduces his Leadership Growth Readiness framework, a simple but...
Sales And Leadership Share This Secret—The SERVICE Framework | Brooke Greening - E32
Dusty is joined by Brooke Greening—sales coach, business owner, and “Gracious Terminator”—for a conversation about transforming how we think about leadership, influence, and sales. With a master’s in counseling and two decades of sales experience, Brooke shares the pivotal story of standing up to toxic leadership and learning that confidence, results, and integrity are the foundation of real influence. Together, she and Dusty unpack how great leadership mirrors great sales: both are acts of service built on listening, trust, and clarity. Brooke introduces her SERVICE Framework—Set expectations, Establish rapport, Recognize the problem, Verbalize value, Identify objections...
4 Words That Change How Every Leader Communicates | Molly Hunt - E31
Dusty is joined by Molly Hunt—CEO of Ty Boyd, Inc. and lifelong student of connection—for a conversation about carrying forward her family’s legacy of helping people communicate with authenticity and heart. The daughter of legendary speaker Ty Boyd, Molly shares how her father’s kindness, humility, and unwavering belief that “it’s not about you” shaped both her leadership and her life. She reflects on growing up in the shadow of a celebrated communicator, finding her own voice through failure and resilience, and transforming nervous energy into purposeful presence. Together, Dusty and Molly explore what it means to lead...
Why Great Problem Solvers Struggle to Build Great Teams - E30
Dusty goes solo to challenge one of leadership’s most common traps—the instinct to swoop in and solve every problem. Drawing from hard-earned lessons and real-world research, he reveals how rescuing team members doesn’t make them stronger—it makes them dependent. In this episode, Dusty introduces his Choice Enablement Model, a practical framework that replaces control with empowerment and transforms teams from compliant followers into confident decision-makers. Through candid stories—including the painful lesson of trying to “save” a high performer who ultimately failed—he shows how great leaders don’t create success for others; they create the conditions whe...
Why Great Leaders Pivot Faster Than Everyone Else | Leo Gestetner - E29
Entrepreneur and digital nomad Leo Gestetner shares his incredible journey from building his first business at age 13 to leading global ventures and redefining what balance, purpose, and adaptability mean in life and business. He opens up about learning to pivot, both professionally and personally, embracing growth, staying fit in body and mind, and finding fulfillment beyond success. Leo’s reflections on resilience, reinvention, and staying present will leave listeners ready to embrace change and chase meaning over perfection.
Key Timestamps:
(00:00) - First Business Beginnings
(03:00) - Learning To Pivot
(06:00...
The 4 Critical Skills That Took This CEO 35 Years to Finally Learn | Terry Dunn - E28
Dusty is joined by Terry Dunn—seasoned CEO and global business leader—for a conversation about trading the demands of the boardroom for the deeper purpose of helping leaders lead better. After 35 years building teams in more than 30 countries and steering companies through transformation and turnaround, Terry now dedicates his work to guiding executives toward clarity, composure, and results that last. He reflects on the formative lessons that shaped his calm, grounded approach to leadership—including learning to master anger as a teenager—and how that discipline evolved into his hallmark of leading with steadiness under pressure. Terry and Dusty un...
The 7 Rules of Engagement That Eliminate 80% Of Leadership Frustrations - E27
Dusty goes solo to unpack one of the most frustrating questions in leadership—why don’t people just do what they’re supposed to do? After nearly three decades leading teams, he’s learned it’s almost never an execution problem—it’s a clarity problem. In this episode, Dusty shares his Rules of Engagement framework, a simple but powerful tool that transforms miscommunication into alignment and builds the trust every great team depends on. Through a candid story about being called out by a team member during a one-on-one meeting, he illustrates how clarity creates safety, accountability, and respect. From...
Clinical Psychologist on Breaking the “Do-It-All” Mindset to Avoid Burnout | Dr. Lani Jones - E26
Dusty is joined by Dr. Lani Jones—clinical psychologist, executive advisor, and entrepreneur—for a conversation about walking away from the security of a children’s hospital career to build a life and business on her own terms. Lani shares how burnout in the healthcare system forced her to confront the difference between loving her work and losing herself in the noise of climbing ladders and checking boxes. That turning point led her into private practice, then into coaching high-performing leaders through the same struggles of identity, balance, and purpose. She reflects on the myth of work-life balance, the power...
Stuck in a Safe Job That Drains You? How This Entrepreneur Turned a Crazy Idea Into a 6-Figure Business | Jason VanDevere - E25
Dusty is joined by Jason VanDevere—entrepreneur, author, and creator of the Goal Crazy Planner—for a conversation about trading the security of a fourth-generation family car dealership for the uncertainty of chasing a dream. Jason shares how his search for a tool to align daily habits with big-picture goals sparked the idea for his planner, eventually growing into a bestselling product, coaching programs, and his new book Dream Driven. He reflects on lessons learned from his father’s leadership, the discipline of time-blocking and boundaries, and the importance of surrounding yourself with mentors who sharpen your perspective. Along the wa...
Two Tough Moments Every Leader Needs to Experience - E24
Dusty takes us deep into the defining “keystone moments” that shape who we are as leaders. From overcoming setbacks and defying expectations to standing firm in the face of doubt, he reveals how challenges become the very building blocks of strength, resilience, and clarity. With powerful personal stories and timeless lessons, this episode shows that leadership isn’t about being born with talent—it’s about learning, reflecting, and choosing to grow.
Key Timestamps:
(00:00) - Power of Keystone Moments
(03:00) - Homeschooling Lessons
(09:00) - Reflection and Growth Tools
(10:00) - Lessons on Confron...
How NBA Coach, Bill Foran, Used These Leadership Fundamentals to Build 4 Championship Teams | Bill Foran - E23
Dusty is joined by Bill Foran—the NBA’s longest-tenured strength and conditioning coach—for a conversation about the lessons behind four decades of building champions with the Miami Heat. Bill shares his unlikely path from small-town PE teacher to coaching legends like Dwyane Wade and LeBron James, revealing how a love for developing athletes—not just drawing up plays—became his driving force. He reflects on the influence of mentors, the transformative leadership of Pat Riley, and the origins of the Heat’s famed “culture” rooted in accountability, fundamentals, and relentless effort. Along the way, Bill and Dusty unpack why recov...
Five Questions That Transform Disengaged Teams Into Purpose-Driven High Performers - E22
Get the 5 Keystone Questions for free: https://5keystones.com/
Dusty goes solo to reveal the five keystone questions that separate transactional, clock-in teams from purpose-driven missionaries who bring their best every day. Through personal stories—including his early leadership challenges in the auto repair industry—he shows how answering these questions unlocks meaning, connection, and lasting engagement: Why are we here, where are we going, how will we get there, where do I fit in, and what’s in it for me? Far more than a framework, Dusty frames these as the cornerstone of culture, empowering teams to mak...
Why Strong Marriages Create Stronger Leaders | Tony DiLorenzo - E21
Dusty is joined by Tony DiLorenzo—entrepreneur, podcaster, and co-creator of the One Extraordinary Marriage Show—for a conversation about how building stronger marriages makes us better leaders. Tony shares his unexpected journey from aspiring pro cyclist to marriage coach, opening up about the struggles he and his wife Elisa faced in their own relationship and how those challenges led them to create the Six Pillars of Intimacy framework that has transformed thousands of marriages. He reflects on the power of intentionality and action—two principles that apply as much in the boardroom as they do at home—and why lead...
Our Most Powerful Leadership Lesson May Have Been Learned in Kindergarten - E20
Dusty goes solo to reveal a leadership superpower most of us learned at age four—connecting the dots. Through the story of his first leadership position, he shows how clarity of vision transforms everyday tasks from transactional work into meaningful contribution. Leaders who fail to connect the dots breed silos, waste, and disengagement, while those who do unlock energy, ownership, and purpose at every level. With a simple three-part framework—collect the right information, cast the vision clearly and consistently, and connect each person’s role to the bigger picture—Dusty makes the case that true leadership isn’t abdication...
How a Homeless Woman Became This CEO's Greatest Leadership Teacher | Amanda Byrd - E19
Dusty is joined by Amanda Byrd, sales executive turned chaplain, coach, and founder, for a conversation about how compassion and courage can reshape not only our careers but our lives. Dusty traces Amanda’s journey from a pivotal act of kindness outside an emergency room to years spent serving in hospitals and hospice care, where she learned the transformative power of presence, listening, and meeting people exactly where they are. Amanda shares how chaplaincy made her a stronger leader—teaching her to hold space for fear, regret, and vulnerability—and why journaling and reflection are essential practices for growth. She op...
Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast: Model Thoughtful Leadership, Not Reactivity - E18
Dusty goes solo to unpack a counterintuitive truth every leader needs to hear—sometimes the fastest way forward is to slow down. Drawing from early lessons on the shooting range, hard-won insights in Ironman training, and years of leadership experience, he reveals how rushing only traps us in reactivity, while rhythm and precision unlock lasting impact. With practical tools like the Eisenhower Matrix and habits such as creating intentional white space, installing circuit breakers, and modeling thoughtful pace for others, Dusty shows how leaders can shift from grinding harder to investing time where it matters most. This episode is a...
8-Figure CFO on Why Chasing Perfection Leads to Failure | Jon Blair - E17
Dusty is joined by Jon Blair—heavy metal guitarist turned purpose-driven entrepreneur and founding executive at Guardian Bikes—for a conversation on how clarity beats chaos in both business and life. Jon shares his unconventional journey from touring musician to scaling a startup from zero to eight figures, raising $15 million, and ultimately launching Free to Grow CFO to help D2C brands build smart, scalable finance operations. They unpack the lessons of navigating multiple “startups” at once—including business, family, and personal growth—while embracing imperfection, focusing on the few things that truly move the needle, and leading with intentionali...