Project Upland Podcast

From old wives’ tales and 19th-century scientific debates to Ice Age genetics and modern survival studies, the color phases of Ruffed Grouse tell a much more complicated story than simply red versus gray.

Why are some Ruffed Grouse gray while others are red, brown, or somewhere in between? In this episode, Gabby and AJ trace more than a century of attempts to answer that question—from old New England folklore to modern genetic and survival research.

The story begins with Gordon Gullion’s four primary color phases—silver-gray, intermediate-gray, brown, and red—and nearly 60 recurring color vari...

In this episode, Dr. Lance McNew, Professor of Wildlife Ecology at Montana State University, takes Gabby and AJ behind the scenes of modern game bird research. From sharp-tailed grouse and habitat management to Pittman-Robertson and the realities of securing research grants, Dr. McNew explains how science informs wildlife management—and how the way we fund that science can shape the questions researchers are able to answer.

We explore why there are no universal "best practices" for managing game bird habitat, why Western game birds often compete with big game species for limited research dollars, and why some ec...

In this “Civics of Conservation” episode of the Project Upland Podcast, AJ and Gabby explore one of the most consequential transformations in American history: how the United States went from a nation committed to disposing of its public domain to one that began preserving land for future generations.

Together, they trace the federal government's acquisition of nearly 1.8 billion acres through purchases, treaties, and wars before examining how Congress exercised its constitutional authority under the Property Clause to transfer much of that land into private ownership through land sales, railroad grants, military bounty lands, and the Homestead Act. Alon...

Fish and Game Commissions Sit at the Intersection of Science, Politics, and Public Responsibility for Wildlife

In this “Civics of Conservation” episode of the Project Upland Podcast, AJ and Gabby are joined by veteran journalist and former Montana Fish and Wildlife commissioner Andrew McKean to explore the often misunderstood world of fish and game commissions and the powerful role they play in shaping wildlife policy across the United States.

Together, they examine how commissions function at the intersection of science, politics, and public accountability, overseeing everything from hunting seasons and regulations to agency budgets, conservation prio...

How the Public Trust Doctrine Built the Uniquely American Idea of Publicly Owned Wildlife and Wildlife Management

In this episode, AJ and Gabby explore the origins of the Public Trust Doctrine with Leon Szeptycki and examine how a series of legal and political turning points helped shape wildlife conservation in the United States. From Roman law and medieval England to landmark Supreme Court cases and the conservation movement of the Progressive Era, they trace how the idea of wildlife as a shared public resource became embedded in American law and culture.

AJ and Gabby discuss...

GPS tracking reveals American woodcock re-nesting movements across the Atlantic Flyway

In this episode, AJ and Gabby talk with Colby Slezak, a recent PhD graduate from the University of Rhode Island, about a surprising breakthrough in American woodcock ecology: evidence that female woodcock can be itinerant breeders.

Colby explains how new GPS tracking technology, combined with on-the-ground nest checks through the Eastern Woodcock Migration Research Cooperative, helped confirm a behavior that had long been suspected but rarely documented. When nests fail, some female woodcock will travel long distances and attempt to nest again elsewhere, sometimes...

In Texas and Arizona, white-winged doves are culturally significant and a part of each state’s hunting heritage. Biologists are actively studying these unique migratory birds; in fact, the first research project to ever outfit white-winged doves with GPS transmitters is currently underway in Texas.

In this episode, AJ and Gabby talk to Owen Fitzsimmons, the webless migratory game bird program leader for Texas Parks and Wildlife. Owen, alongside Dr. Jennifer Smith of the Caesar Kleburg Wildlife Research Institute at Texas A&M University Kingsville, to learn more about the urban ecology, behaviors, and life history of wh...

In the Project Upland Podcast episode “The Birds Aren’t Alright,” hosts Gabby Zaldumbide and A.J. DeRosa speak with Dr. Michael Brasher, senior waterfowl scientist at Ducks Unlimited and co-chair of the State of the Birds Report Science Committee, to uncover what the latest data reveal about bird population trends—and what is at stake if federal funding for avian research disappears.

Bird species have been monitored for more than a century, but if federal funding for avian research is lost, what else will vanish with it? The conversation traces the roots of modern bird monitoring back to...

In this episode, AJ and Gabby take a break from their regular programming to discuss the sale of public lands as part of the federal budget reconciliation bill. 

On June 11, 2025, the Energy and Natural Resources Committee Hearing to Examine the President’s Budget Request for the Department of the Interior for Fiscal Year 2026 took place. In it, senators discuss “The “Mandatory Disposal of Bureau of Land Management Land And National Forest System Land for Housing,” which would require the sale of 2-3 million acres of Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and U.S. Forest Service (USFS) land with...

How an 1885 dissection unraveled a hidden story about invasive worms and the migration routes of the American woodcock in North America.

In 1887, Frederick Webster, a taxidermist from Washington, D.C., wrote a short article in a scientific journal. In it, he described dissecting a woodcock from Martha’s Vineyard that had a crop filled entirely with ferns. Why did this woodcock stray from its usual diet of invertebrates? A.J. and Gabby, hosts of the Project Upland Podcast, search for the answer—only to uncover the surprising story of invasive worms in North America. 

Together with...

In this episode, Gabby and AJ explore the mystery of ruffed grouse drumming—starting in the 1700s, when naturalists first theorized about the sound, and tracing the evolution of human technology that finally unlocked the truth behind this unique behavior. Along the way, they talk to biologist Alaina Roth, Wisconsin’s statewide ruffed grouse specialist, who sheds light on grouse life history, drumming counts, and how technology is transforming wildlife surveys. This episode covers everything from historical myths and early scientific discoveries using cameras to modern AI-driven drumming surveys and the critical role of habitat in grouse conservation.

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk about the North American Upland Bird Hunting Survey, which has been conducted annually since 2018. The eighth iteration of this survey explores everything from hunting dogs and shotguns to upland bird species—and just how much and how people hunt them. The 2025 edition includes an expanded opinion section covering current and historical policies, environmental issues, and political leanings. Learn how hard the Project Upland community hunts, all the way to their favorite dog breeds.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

If you want to support independent journalism, ch...

In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Mark Avery, author of A Message from Martha. As a biologist and conservationist, Mark takes us back in time to reconstruct the biology, habitat, and final era of the Passenger Pigeon. The Passenger Pigeon's extinction is one of the most dramatic extinction stories of the 20th century, resulting in the loss of the most numerous bird on Earth. This episode explores everything from nesting biology and historical accounts to habitat destruction and the last Passenger Pigeon to die in captivity at the Cincinnati Zoo—Martha.

Listen to past episodes he...

In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Associate Professor and Rangeland Wildlife Extension Specialist at Utah State University, Dave Dahlgren. As a sage grouse researcher and scientist, Dave explores the threat of cheatgrass and fire in the Great Basin to habitat. He also shares his experience with changing technology in radio telemetry and GPS tracking and how his pointing dogs have played a role in his research. Lastly, we discuss one of the most influential and limiting factors in sage grouse survival: area fidelity.

This is the second episode of a two-part series about sage grouse...

In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Utah-based sage grouse expert Dave Dahlgren. As a sage grouse researcher and biologist, Dave teaches us about huge amounts of habitat sage grouse need to survive and explains human-centric issues impacting their continued existence.

This is the first episode of a two-part series about sage grouse in Utah.

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Project Upland presents the new Project Upland Podcast, a cinematic and science-based production that delivers on the independent storytelling you have come to love. 

Cohosts AJ DeRosa and Gabby Zaldumbide learn from researchers, biologists, and subject matter experts about birds, nature, conservation, dogs, and more. 

Join us as we travel into the deepest, most obscure, and nerdiest realms of the uplands.

After all, these are your stories.

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Visit projectupland.com

The Project Upland Podcast Patreon

Support the sh...