The Panel

Jordan and Brian unpack two MicroConf talks from Rob and Einar that frame the new reality of SaaS: faster building, faster competition, and more ways for products to get displaced. They then get practical about what that means for product strategy, pricing, annual billing, and where AI can actually help a small business stay durable.

Timestamps:
00:00: Intro and Rob’s MicroConf talk
03:30: Should founders be more paranoid?
06:17: Einar’s moat talk and what makes software valuable
10:13: Where services and productized services fit
13:46: Josh Pigford’s AI service model
17:26: Giving Grokbot recurring jobs

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory
04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder?
06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding
10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products
13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one
15:26 - Bu...

Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success?

Chapters:

We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web?

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job
09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth
14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for
19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked
22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder.

Chapters:

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products.

Chapters:

What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?!

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro

03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot

11:49 - Claude fatigue and the shift toward chief-of-staff AI agents

14:55 - How product experience is replacing model quality in the AI race

18:09 - Cursor's...

Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online
12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design
16:07 Market entry strategies for new products
19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models
23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects
28:03 The SaaS pocalypse
32:00 SaaS valuations and...

How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm. 

Timestamps:
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What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software?

Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome to The Panel
00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip
03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car
05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing
07:20 What FlyWrite actually does
11:37 Building version one with Fable
16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow
28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping
36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity
39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode
48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting
58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war
63:28 Figma, design...

Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used.

Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:45 Taking control of your funnel
05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce
08:18 Optimizing the customer experience
19:10 Doubling sign-ups
23:08 Customer demand wins
25:34 Putting the credit card upfront
29:26 Customer demand and the funnel
31:56 Question your assumptions
35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy
44:14 Surviving survival mode
46:40 How we think about pay<...

If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing? 

Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics
06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel
17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs
26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space
42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise
01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism

YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️

🎤 Send us an audio or video message

📧 Email u...

Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code.

Timestamps:

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🎤 Send us an audio o...

After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work. 

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction
01:19 Peptides and Supplements
08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts
14:02 Daily Walking
17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking
21:40 The Importance of Optimization
24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts
29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation
33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks
53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition
55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals
01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars

YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us...

How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar.

Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome to The Panel
03:06 Business Updates
05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI
11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics
17:45 The Future of Team Structures
20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams
25:48 The Future of Company Organization
27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity
36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI
40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape
45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path<...

Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time?

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels
08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads
12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch
21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth
30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics
35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools
01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout
01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development...

Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined.

Jason's new book Hidden Multipliers is available for preorder.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:28 Jason Cohen's Journey and Insights
04:18 Writing Process and Content Creation
10:24 Distribution as a Business Strategy
13:15 Debate on Distribution as...

SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety?

Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, credibility with teams, and remote-team alignment. On distribution, they argue product and marketing are linked,  and “hand-to-hand combat” on channels like Reddit, discuss ads and YouTube as ongoing systems, and highlight social proof via reviews (including Jor...

Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction
03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation
06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life
09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Challenges
12:26 Navigating Sponsorships and Brand Deals
15:31 Exploring Video Podcasting and Market Demand
26:16 Navigating Pricing Models and Customer Expectations for Video Podcasting
31:27 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies
45:20 Understanding Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP)
01:00:34 Understanding Customer Segmentation
01:04:23 Navigating...

In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense.

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools
07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy
10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics
13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in Business
16:36 The Future of Marketing and AI
22:39 Imagining Steve Jobs in the Age of AI<...

Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news.

Timestamps:
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️

Links mentioned in this episode:

Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation. 

Timestamps:

Justin's hosting this one and he brought along Ben Curtis from Honeybadger to talk about how AI can be a CRM and also your designer.

Timestamps:

It's Jordan's turn to host and he's got some AI companies he's not sure about...

Timestamps:

Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions.

Timestamps:

What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decision-making in a 50/50 partnership, and why strategy has to belong to a key decision maker. 

The conversation then spills into the "Mexican standoff" happening on teams as AI reshapes who does what and whether that's something to fear (o...

Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC.

Timestamps:

We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026.

Timestamps:

Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to ​The Panel's channel​ to get notified when we go live:

Subscribe to The Panel YouTube here -->

Join us FRIDAY (tomorrow, Feb 20) at 11 AM Pacific (2 pm EST) for a surprise announcement:
https://www.youtube.com/live/sxASjnzAYkw

We'll be announcing:
- A new ███████ ██████ ████
- And a brand new ████ ███████
- New livestream/recording time: Friday, 11 am Pacific
- Livestreams will now be streamed from ​The Panel YT channel​, not Justin's personal channel

Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all?

Timestamps:

Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok?

Timestamps:

Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app?

Timestamps:

Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media.

Timestamps:

We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything?

Timestamps:

Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it.

Timestamps:

Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale.

Timestamps:

Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress.

Timestamps:

AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.

Timestamps:

During the last live recording, Justin made a quick song for the folks who show up every week in the livestream chat.

Dedicated to our regular "chat crew:" Zack, Dave Giunta, Emmett, Pascal, Ryan, Beau and more!

Lyrics

Verse 1:
They're typing fast when the stream goes live
Zack and Emmett keeping vibes alive
Technical issues? They don't care
Beau's reloading but they're all still there

Chorus:
Chat room warriors, showing up on time
Pascal's dropping wisdom, Michael's speaking his mind
From AgentOS to Rails...

Justin spoke to a grade 12 class about entrepreneurship, and was surprised by what he learned about teenagers.

Brian has thoughts on the impact of Agent OS v2.1 and struggles with the support burden of open-source software. 

They talk about “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea." Also: Johnny Ive and Rivian founder RJ Scaringe's product design processes.

Timestamps: