The Panel
When it comes to bootstrapping and building software, there's rarely one right answer. We want to dive into the nuance. In every episode, veteran founders Justin Jackson, Brian Casel and Jordan Gal tackle thorny topics – from pricing and product strategy to work-life balance. No gurus, no easy answers – just real conversations we'd normally have behind closed doors.
Acquired By Bending Spoons
Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online
12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design
16:07 Market entry strategies for new products
19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models
23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects
28:03 The SaaS pocalypse
32:00 SaaS valuations and...
Fiddling With Your Funnel
How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm.
Timestamps:
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SteadyHeyRosyBuilder MethodsOpenRoutines...DRUNK ON FABLE
What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software?
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome to The Panel
00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip
03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car
05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing
07:20 What FlyWrite actually does
11:37 Building version one with Fable
16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow
28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping
36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity
39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode
48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting
58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war
63:28 Figma, design...
I Want it That Way
Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:45 Taking control of your funnel
05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce
08:18 Optimizing the customer experience
19:10 Doubling sign-ups
23:08 Customer demand wins
25:34 Putting the credit card upfront
29:26 Customer demand and the funnel
31:56 Question your assumptions
35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy
44:14 Surviving survival mode
46:40 How we think about pay<...
Price Fixing FTW!
If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing?
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics
06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel
17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs
26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space
42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise
01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism
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BIG CITY ENERGY
Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction01:06 Justin's Big Question10:04 Personal Reflections on City Life13:05 Family Dynamics and Future Living Plans24:37 The Energy of New Beginnings30:22 The Wisdom of Solitude vs. Ambition38:58 Accelerating Growth and Optimization50:41 Navigating Advertising Challenges53:17 The Impact of Confidence on Communication01:01:58 Innovating Video Editing with AI01:08:00 Balancing Quality and Quantity in Content Creation01:14:44 The Human Cost of Rapid AI AdoptionYOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
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I spend money. People see the product. They buy. We grow.
After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:19 Peptides and Supplements
08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts
14:02 Daily Walking
17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking
21:40 The Importance of Optimization
24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts
29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation
33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks
53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition
55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals
01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us...
Vibe coding is not a real business model
How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar.
Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome to The Panel
03:06 Business Updates
05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI
11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics
17:45 The Future of Team Structures
20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams
25:48 The Future of Company Organization
27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity
36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI
40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape
45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path<...
Burning Out Doing Lines of Code
Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time?
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels
08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads
12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch
21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth
30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics
35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools
01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout
01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development...
A series of miracles (with Jason Cohen)
Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined.
Jason's new book Hidden Multipliers is available for preorder.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:28 Jason Cohen's Journey and Insights
04:18 Writing Process and Content Creation
10:24 Distribution as a Business Strategy
13:15 Debate on Distribution as...
Marinating in the sauce
SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety?
Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, credibility with teams, and remote-team alignment. On distribution, they argue product and marketing are linked, and “hand-to-hand combat” on channels like Reddit, discuss ads and YouTube as ongoing systems, and highlight social proof via reviews (including Jor...
You Down With ICP?
Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation
06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life
09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Challenges
12:26 Navigating Sponsorships and Brand Deals
15:31 Exploring Video Podcasting and Market Demand
26:16 Navigating Pricing Models and Customer Expectations for Video Podcasting
31:27 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies
45:20 Understanding Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP)
01:00:34 Understanding Customer Segmentation
01:04:23 Navigating...
The power of attention
In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools
07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy
10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics
13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in Business
16:36 The Future of Marketing and AI
22:39 Imagining Steve Jobs in the Age of AI<...
Is "vision" overrated?
Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news.
Timestamps:
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
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Links mentioned in this episode:
Quick Sight – AWS https://aws.amazon.com/quick/quicksight/Stripe Sigma https...Respite from the Dopamine Machine
Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation.
Timestamps:
Can AI be your CRM?
Justin's hosting this one and he brought along Ben Curtis from Honeybadger to talk about how AI can be a CRM and also your designer.
Timestamps:
Scam or no scam? (with Jordan)
It's Jordan's turn to host and he's got some AI companies he's not sure about...
Timestamps:
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Re...
The money tunnel
Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions.
Timestamps:
YOU...
A rainbow of internet fantasies
What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decision-making in a 50/50 partnership, and why strategy has to belong to a key decision maker.
The conversation then spills into the "Mexican standoff" happening on teams as AI reshapes who does what and whether that's something to fear (o...
Embracing our AI business owning bots
Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC.
Timestamps:
YOU ARE THE PANEL – se...
A surprise announcement
We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026.
Timestamps:
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us...
Changes coming to The Panel podcast
Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to The Panel's channel to get notified when we go live:
Subscribe to The Panel YouTube here -->
Join us FRIDAY (tomorrow, Feb 20) at 11 AM Pacific (2 pm EST) for a surprise announcement:
https://www.youtube.com/live/sxASjnzAYkw
We'll be announcing:
- A new ███████ ██████ ████
- And a brand new ████ ███████
- New livestream/recording time: Friday, 11 am Pacific
- Livestreams will now be streamed from The Panel YT channel, not Justin's personal channel
Get to the sauna!
Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all?
Timestamps:
OpenClaw and Building Fake Apps
Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok?
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"What happens when engineering outpaces marketing?" – Jordan Gal
Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app?
Timestamps:
2026: We Choose Hope
Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media.
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2026: Panic or Hope?
We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything?
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Do you worry about getting crushed by the competition?
Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it.
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Filtering out bad ideas
Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale.
Timestamps:
Mystery caller
Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress.
Timestamps:
Maybe, do the opposite
AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.
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Bonus: "The Chat" theme song
During the last live recording, Justin made a quick song for the folks who show up every week in the livestream chat.
Dedicated to our regular "chat crew:" Zack, Dave Giunta, Emmett, Pascal, Ryan, Beau and more!
Lyrics
Verse 1:
They're typing fast when the stream goes live
Zack and Emmett keeping vibes alive
Technical issues? They don't care
Beau's reloading but they're all still there
Chorus:
Chat room warriors, showing up on time
Pascal's dropping wisdom, Michael's speaking his mind
From AgentOS to Rails...
Going Back to Grade 12
Justin spoke to a grade 12 class about entrepreneurship, and was surprised by what he learned about teenagers.
Brian has thoughts on the impact of Agent OS v2.1 and struggles with the support burden of open-source software.
They talk about “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea." Also: Johnny Ive and Rivian founder RJ Scaringe's product design processes.
Timestamps:
Double duty with Aaron Francis
Aaron Francis joins The Panel this week to talk about entrepreneurship, programming, and parenting. We chatted about how personal experiences shape our business journeys, the evolution of programming tools, and the importance of identifying market signals for success.
Timestamps:
Surviving on the internet
Justin is impressed with V0's ability to build working prototypes quickly. We've also got Sora 2 thoughts. And... what should we teach our kids when AI makes everything easy? Brian launches Agent OS v2. Could either of us survive without the internet for more than a day?
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Will vibe coding and AI give product people an advantage?
Justin Jackson and Brian Casel discuss the evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, particularly in the context of AI's impact on product development, creativity, and the job market. They explore the importance of having a clear vision when using AI tools, the challenges faced by junior developers, and the enduring need for human connection in art and media. The discussion also touches on the future of work, the role of AI in enhancing productivity, and the implications for artists and creators in a rapidly changing environment.
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Business vibes
Justin vibe-coded an app 5 minutes before recording this episode. Justin and the Transistor team just got back from Banff for their annual company retreat. How do these retreats actually work? What are they good for? Brian has some pretty good signups for Builder Methods Pro memberships! (How can he keep that momentum going?) He's also juggling Agent OS customer support.
Timestamps:
Business Dad, digital fatigue, Outro.fm, Builder Methods
We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debate the value of community feedback and the potential for unforeseen opportunities in creating content online. Ian talks with us about the development of Outro.fm as an all-in-one solution for podcasters, the importance of building a membership community, the pr...
Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results?
Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms?
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A framework for getting what you want
Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more.
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