Chris Skinner's Countryside Podcasts

40 Episodes
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By: High Ash Farm

 Nature, Wildlife and Countryside Living with Chris Skinner from High Ash FarmChris Skinner, a Norfolk farmer, takes a unique approach to farming, prioritizing biodiversity and wildlife conservation in every practice.Tune in every Sunday morning as Chris, alongside broadcaster Matthew Gudgin, explores topics on nature, wildlife, and rural life.Join them for strolls through High Ash Farm and beyond, spotting wildlife and addressing your queries about the natural world. Email questions for Chris to answer to Chris@highashfarm.com

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Episode 2.86 - Beech Cupules and Clay Pond Drinks
Yesterday at 11:00 PM

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On a fresher late-August morning at High Ash Farm, after just under ten millimetres of welcome rain has begun to tint the parched pastures with the faintest green, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin begin at the duck pond. An extraordinary mallard mother who successfully raised nine ducklings earlier in the spring has now returned with a second brood of thirteen tiny balls of fluff. The youngsters form a tight “football” when geese approach, while the attentive mother keeps constant watch. Nearby, moorhens continue their own remarkable family life, with older chicks helping to feed...


Episode 2.85 - Eclipse Crowds and Buzzard Bales
08/15/2026

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On another scorching mid-August morning at High Ash Farm, the day after a spectacular partial solar eclipse, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin reflect on an extraordinary evening. Around 500 well-behaved visitors and 250–300 cars gathered peacefully on one of the farm’s high points for the best view of Norwich and the setting sun. Dads fashioned pinhole cameras from cereal boxes and sieves; Chris shared his welding mask so everyone could watch safely. By morning the site was spotless — not a single tin can or crisp packet left behind — putting a huge smile on his face.The...


Episode 2.84 - Drought Whips and Hornbeam Bracts
08/08/2026

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On a breezy mid-August morning at High Ash Farm, with temperatures still high after another week above 30°C and only a fleeting six millimetres of rain quickly absorbed by the parched ground, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin survey the aftermath of intensive fire-prevention work. The last of the waist-high pollen and nectar fields have been cut short, tedded to knock seeds to the ground, and baled — one bale per acre — removing the worst of the fire risk, though the stubble remains flammable. Chris reflects on a close shave with a takeaway barbecue in Succe...


Episode 2.83 - Tinder Fields and Hobby Missiles
08/01/2026

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On a fiercely hot, windy late-July morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin stand on one of the highest points of the farm as temperatures push into the 30s and a strong breeze turns the landscape into a tinderbox. Chris recounts a heart-stopping encounter with a group of people barbecuing in Successional Woodland — the smell of cooking meat leading him to intervene and then race to mow nearly 80–100 acres of pollen-and-nectar fields that had just finished flowering. The cut crop, now brittle and dry as hay the moment it hit the...


Episode 2.82 - Rook Roosts and Meadow Makers
07/25/2026

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On a still late-July evening at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner settles beneath a field maple in Fox's Grove as thousands of jackdaws and rooks gather overhead for their nightly communal roost. As dusk falls and the woodland fills with a remarkable chorus of calls, Chris reflects on the social lives of these intelligent birds and the peaceful spectacle that marks the close of another summer's day.

Returning in daylight with Matthew Gudgin, they explore the hidden world of seed production. From bluebells casting glossy black seeds across the woodland floor...


Episode 2.81 - Flamingo Pond and Burnet Banquets
07/18/2026

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On a beautiful but still dry mid-July morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin explore Woodcock Wood and a rarely visited blue clay pond — an old hand-dug clay pit that now serves as a precious watering hole in the drought-stricken north half of the farm. With the water table dropping and a hosepipe ban in force, Chris explains the pond’s history, the floating water fern (Azolla filiculoides) known locally as flamingo weed that turns bright pink, and its vital role for wildlife. Trail-cam footage reveals buzzards, tawny owls...


Episode 2.80 - Butterfly Banquets and Nettle Nurseries
07/11/2026

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On another scorching July morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin explore the extraordinary abundance of butterflies thriving despite the relentless heat. Among thistle-lined field margins they encounter meadow browns, green-veined whites, six-spot burnet moths, peacocks and a surprise brimstone butterfly, while Chris explains how drought, migration and nectar-rich wildflower crops shape the fortunes of Britain's summer butterflies.

The pair then visit a carefully managed patch of stinging nettles, where Chris reveals why he deliberately mows sections each year to produce fresh growth for caterpillars. From eggs and...


Episode 2.79 - Hayfield Kites and House Martin Mud
07/04/2026

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On a glorious early-July morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner rises at 6 a.m. to follow Neil mowing hay across Cantley Hill. A swirling flock of lesser black-backed gulls and red kites follows the mower, hunting small mammals and insects disturbed by the blades.

Later, they watch the tedder fluffing and turning the crop in the intense summer heat, while Chris explains the shift from traditional small bales to modern Heston bales. In the farmyard, a delightful surprise: house martins gathering mud for nests — late arrivals whose origin remains a my...


Episode 2.78 - Foxglove Spires and Peregrine Kills
06/27/2026

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On a breezy mid-June morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin stand among towering foxgloves in dappled woodland — spectacular spikes of purple, pink and white, buzzing with bumblebees. Chris explains their biennial life cycle, vast seed production, and the important heart medicine (digitalis) derived from them.

Nearby, a sobering discovery: the fresh remains of a little owl, plucked by a peregrine falcon near a busy road — a stark reminder of the raw predator-prey balance on the farm. They then admire a vibrant stand of sainfoin (wholesome hay) in the...


Episode 2.77 - Dragonfly Dances and Bee Swarm Ball
06/20/2026

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On a glorious hot mid-June morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin begin at the maturing lake, alive with emperor dragonflies laying eggs, banded damselflies, and thousands of tiny fish fry (young roach and rudd) shimmering just beneath the surface. Swallows and house martins swoop low for drinks while a little grebe dives nearby.

The pair then witness one of nature’s greatest spectacles — a huge honeybee swarm forming a football-sized ball on a pine branch, the old queen and thousands of workers in holiday mood seeking a new...


Episode 2.76 - Pyramidal Splendour and Honey Fungus Worries
06/13/2026

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On a breezy, showery mid-June morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin walk through the magnificent wildflower meadows, now refreshed by welcome rain after weeks of drought. The pyramidal orchids are at their spectacular best — tall, vivid pink-purple spikes rising through oxeye daisies and yellow rattle — while Chris reflects on their long life cycles, chalk-loving habitat, and the extraordinary numbers appearing this year.

They also admire viper’s bugloss with its striking blue flowers and snake-like features, and discover dyer’s weld, an ancient dye plant linked to Neolithi...


Episode 2.75 - Bee Orchid Wonders and Mistle Thrush Meadows
06/06/2026

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On a breezy early-June morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin walk through one of the glorious wildflower meadows carpeted in oxeye daisies, yellow rattle and other species. Chris reveals the hidden wonders of bee orchids — their pink, bee-mimicking flowers, extraordinarily long life cycle involving mycorrhizal fungi, and the fact that the plants die completely after flowering once they’ve set seed.

They also enjoy a large gathering of mistle thrushes on the horse-grazed pastures near active rabbit warrens. Chris explains rabbit social hierarchy, burrowing habits, double digestion (re-e...


Episode 2.74 - Firethorn Butterflies and Heatwave Heartbreak
05/30/2026

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On a breezy, sunny late-May morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner rejoices in an extraordinary influx of Painted Lady butterflies drawn to the pyracantha (firethorn) bushes around his house. He explains this “eruption” — a mass arrival from southern Europe fleeing extreme heat and nectar shortages — turning the thorny evergreens into a fluttering feast for these powerful migrants.

The pair also enjoy green hairstreaks dancing along the long new hedgerow, their iridescent green underwings flashing in the sun, and visit the maturing lake where yellow flag iris (queen of the marshes) shines a...


Episode 2.73 - Holly Blue Heaven and Fox Cub Frolics
05/23/2026

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On a bright late-May morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner is thrilled by the appearance of a stunning male holly blue butterfly basking in one of the wildflower meadows. He explains its remarkable two-brood life cycle — using holly in spring and ivy later in the year — and the joy of seeing these tiny blue gems after a cold spell. 

The pair then head to Cantley Hill Plantation, where a family of young fox cubs has taken over an old badger sett. Chris shares trail-camera footage of the adventurous six-week-old cubs explo...


Episode 2.72 - Stoat Kittens and Soaking Rain
05/16/2026

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On a welcome rainy mid-May morning at High Ash Farm, after weeks of drought, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin celebrate 10mm of soaking rain on the overwinter wild bird seed mix. They reflect on past hedge removal and changing farming practices while exploring an old clay quarry where solitary bees nest in ancient clay-block walls. 

The highlight is a remarkable stoat family: Chris shares stunning trail-camera footage of a female stoat (Mustela erminea) repeatedly returning to a wood-pile lair with fresh rabbit prey for her tiny kits. He explains their lightning s...


Episode 2.71 - Aphid Aerial Plankton and Blossoming Hawthorns
05/10/2026

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On a chilly, grey early-May morning with a brisk northerly wind and five weeks of drought at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin explore the effects of the dry spell. Skylarks hover and sing over parched grass fields, while swallows sweep low hunting for insects. In Fox’s Grove, they examine sycamore leaves glistening with honeydew from vast colonies of green aphids — prolific breeders that provide vital “aerial plankton” for summer migrants. 

Chris then admires one of the farm’s magnificent old hawthorns (May) in full luminous blossom beside an ancient...


Episode 2.70 - Sand Martin Spectacle and Earsham Colonies
05/02/2026

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On a breezy early-May morning, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin visit Earsham Gravel Quarry on the northern edge of High Ash Farm to witness a wonderful spectacle. Hundreds of sand martins swirl around the towering sand cliffs, pouring in and out of nest holes like a living Swiss cheese. Chris explains their colonial lifestyle, playful feather-chasing games, tiny size, brown collar, and long journey from the Sahel, while noting their sharp national decline and dependence on nearby river meadows for insect food. 

Back on the farm they check a busy rookery i...


Episode 2.69 - Bluebell Batteries and Badger Bedding
04/25/2026

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On a bright but brisk late-April morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner welcomes Matthew Gudgin with a fresh sense of wonder after his recent heart surgery. Starting close to home, he shares honey with common ants in a plant pot and explains their vital place at the base of the food chain — fuelling the swarming “aerial plankton” that feeds swallows, starlings and green woodpeckers. 

Just yards from the back door, four well-grown robin chicks sit ready to fledge in a Virginia creeper nest, while a bold lone mallard duckling makes daily j...


Episode 2.68 - Morning Melodies and Orange-Tip Eggs
04/18/2026

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In the soft pre-dawn light of mid-April at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner steps outside at 4:45 am to capture the awakening countryside. A blackbird sings gloriously from a nearby tree, its rich, fluid notes carrying beautifully in the cool, still air, while wood pigeons coo and the first lesser black-backed gulls drift overhead. Chris explains why birds sing so early — advertising territory, the sound travelling farther in dense cold air, and the simple fact that it’s still too dark for many to start foraging on the ground. A short walk to the stab...


Episode 2.67 - Spring Swallow Spectacle and Woodland Whites
04/11/2026

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On a gloriously warm early-April morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin celebrate the long-awaited arrival of the swallows — fifteen adults sweeping in together in a single batch, already busily cleaning and repairing last year’s nests in the stables. Chris explains the ingenious double-roofing solution he installed to prevent the young from overheating in summer, and the epic 5,000-mile journey these tiny birds make each year from South Africa. A gentle walk through Notre Dame Wood reveals wild cherry trees in glorious creamy-white blossom and blackthorn thickets frothing with whit...


Episode 2.66 - Firebug Frenzy and Min-Till Marvels
04/04/2026

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A beautiful early-April morning at High Ash Farm and Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin are treated to classic “Mad March hares” — pairs and trios boxing and chasing across the overwinter seed mix, the females standing up on hind legs to fend off over-eager males. A short drive to the oat field reveals Neil’s min-till cultivator at work, its wide array of angled discs turning the soil with minimal disturbance while a swirling flock of rooks, jackdaws, carrion crows and gulls feasts on the freshly exposed soil invertebrates; overhead a red kite quarters the scen...


Episode 2.65 - Owl Odyssey and Second Chances
03/29/2026

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Fresh from a successful quadruple bypass at Papworth Hospital, Chris Skinner returns to High Ash Farm after nine days away, still bruised from head to foot but glowing with renewed purpose. In the living room he shares extraordinary stories of the operating theatre where three members of the surgical team recognised him from the podcast and asked (unsuccessfully) to play it during the nine-and-a-half-hour procedure, and of the young farmers from the Philippines and South Sudan working in the UK to buy tractors and sunflower seed for their families back home. A gentle...


Episode 2.64 - Spawn Surge and Mad March Hares
03/22/2026

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Just days before his successful triple bypass surgery at Papworth Hospital, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin stand at the overflowing lake at High Ash Farm, where a sodden winter has triggered one of nature’s most spectacular annual events. Hundreds of frogs and toads have emerged from hibernation in a single night, laying millions of eggs: the frogs producing huge glistening rafts of “tapioca pudding” spawn, while the common toads create long, double-rowed ribbons resembling delicate strings of pearls stretching metres across the water. Chris explains the frantic amplexus mating ritual, how the spawn...


Episode 2.63 - Cricket Bat Canopies and Tally Tales
03/15/2026

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In the soft pre-dawn light of mid-March at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner sits patiently in the Fox's Grove hide hoping for a glimpse of the elusive willow tit, one of the farm's dwindling specialities, while blue tits, coal tits and long-tailed tits swarm the feeders. Later, joined by Matthew Gudgin in a newly planted extension of Woodcock Wood, they celebrate the willow – all five British species thrive here, from towering white and crack willows to the three sallow species. Chris cuts a whip of goat willow, its yellow catkins (known locally as go...


Episode 2.62 - City Coos and Collared Comebacks
03/08/2026

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In the bustling heart of Norwich city centre beneath the clock tower of City Hall and the ledges of St Peter Mancroft, Chris Skinner answers listener Jocelyn Baxter’s question about five different-coloured pigeons in her garden. Surrounded by swirling flocks of up to 500 feral pigeons (the domesticated descendants of the wild rock dove), he traces their extraordinary journey from remote Scottish cliffs and Welsh caves to urban rooftops, including their role as ancient Egyptian messengers under Rameses III and heroic WWII carrier pigeons. Back at High Ash Farm the story unfolds across al...


Episode 2.61 - Brimstone Breakthrough and Violet Ventures
03/01/2026

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On a gloriously mild first day of March at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin are stopped in their tracks before they even leave the yard by the season’s first brimstone butterfly — a dazzling male sulphur-yellow vision emerging from dense ivy on the stable wall, its ivy-shaped wings proving once again why this hero plant is the ultimate winter refuge. Just yards away, the 42 sparrow nest boxes are a riot of chatter and activity, every one occupied in a heart-warming reversal of the old “Sparrow Clubs” that once tried to eradicat...


Episode 2.60 - Pine Pillars and Peacock Pauses
02/22/2026

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In the crisp northerly chill of late February at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin explore the historic carriage store turned log haven, where a meticulously stacked pile shelters hibernating peacock butterflies—jet-black camouflaged wings mimicking shrivelled leaves, their glycerol-laced blood warding off frost amid tales of metamorphosis from egg to voracious nettle-feeding caterpillars, red pupae, and nine-month lifespans, alongside brimstone and small tortoiseshell kin snug in ivy nooks for six dormant months. A serendipitous skyward spectacle unfolds: three buzzards in courtship spirals, their four-foot wings tilting in thermal-less winds, stooping an...


Episode 2.59 - Redwing Rallies and Snipe Searches
02/15/2026

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In the drizzly gloom of mid-February at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin marvel at a restless flock of 200 redwings—migratory thrushes with speckled breasts and rusty flanks—congregating en masse on close-grazed pastures, their seep calls and defensive flights a prelude to their North Sea crossing back to Scandinavian breeding grounds, amid tales of nocturnal migrations, tundra nests, and communal roosts, while watchful goshawks and buzzards lurk nearby. A zigzag quest across overwinter wild bird seed mixes yields elusive common snipe—amber-listed wetland waders with probing bills and jinxing flights—displace...


Episode 2.58 - Goshawk Glimpses and Woodcock Waves
02/08/2026

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In the cruel grip of February's easterly winds at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin brave the chill to explore an eruption of woodcocks fleeing frozen Europe, their numbers swelling amid redwings, fieldfares, and nomadic lapwings, while frost-lift threatens crops and prompts calls for protecting red-listed species like the beleaguered grey partridge. A thrilling discovery unfolds: a new badger set, the farm's third, teeming with four displaced newcomers—including a pregnant sow gathering bedding for imminent cubs—amid sandy excavations on a west-facing slope, their nocturnal labyrinths a testament to delayed impl...


Episode 2.57 - Bypass Journeys and Thrush Tunes
02/01/2026

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In the cosy confines of High Ash Farm's office amid blustery rains, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin sift through aerial snapshots chronicling decades of agricultural evolution—from bustling dairy herds and beef cattle in clay barns to solitary stewardship amid modern uncertainties. Chris recounts a train odyssey to Papworth Hospital for his impending triple bypass, traversing Breckland's pine corridors and sandy warrens, then plunging into Cambridgeshire's jet-black fens teeming with lapwings, greylag geese, mute swans, and cormorant-laden trees, a vivid reminder of landscapes reclaimed from ancient reed beds and glacial sands. A detour to...


Episode 2.56 - Fungal Flurries and Mole Mysteries
01/25/2026

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In the rain-softened fringes of Fox's Grove at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin recount Rat's near-fatal burrow plunge into a rank-scented fox den, thwarted by a timely tether amid the terrier's muffled underground barks. Amid global well-wishes for Chris's heart surgery—from Yorkshire's aconite admirers to Michigan's feeder-watching fans—they explore nature's revival rhythms: annuals racing seed-to-seed in one fervent burst, perennials like bluebells and snowdrops harnessing bulb-stored solar energy tugged deeper by contractile roots, and biennials bridging seasons with two-year tenacity—foxgloves amassing rosettes on acidic soils for digitalin-rich spires...


Episode 2.55 - Foxglove Flourishes and Teasel Triumphs
01/18/2026

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In the sun-dappled depths of Fox's Grove at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin thwart Rat's subterranean ambitions with a timely tether, averting a repeat of his 30-minute underground escapade amid fox burrows scented with rank winter musk. Delving into nature's revival, they unravel the rhythms of plant life cycles: annuals sprinting through seed-to-seed in one fervent year, perennials like enduring bluebells and snowdrops returning eternally from bulb-bound solar stores pulled deeper by contractile roots, and biennials bridging the gap with two-year tenacity—foxgloves amassing emerald rosettes on acidic soils for su...


Episode 2.54 - Frosted Footprints and Floral Pioneers
01/11/2026

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Amid the thawing remnants of a harsh January frost at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin witness the Norfolk countryside stirring from snowbound stillness, where a mild south-westerly wind sweeps away icy veils to reveal resilient early blooms like sweet violets, viper's bugloss with its ox-tongue bristles, and cobalt-blue speedwells defying the chill on sandy slopes. Chris shares a personal turning point—clogged arteries leading to urgent bypass surgery, echoing his father's fate and prompting reflections on farming's relentless pace, where one plans for eternity yet lives for the moment, now fa...


Episode 2.53 - Gull Glides and Tit Troupes
01/04/2026

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In the crisp dawn of a new year at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin usher in 2026 with the aerial spectacle of black-headed gulls wheeling westward in V-formations, drawn to ploughed fields teeming with worms, while a muntjac deer ambles across the lawn and scraps from last night's dinner lure a swirling flock to feast. Reflections on evolving habits reveal how these "laughing gulls"—once harvested for eggs and masqueraded as plover meat—have adapted to inland life amid min-till farming that spares soil compaction and boosts invertebrate bounty, transforming them into...


Episode 2.52 - Urban Arias and Flocking Festivities
12/28/2025

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As the year draws to a close under grey December skies at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin embark on a twilight quest that uncovers unexpected melodies amid urban clamour—a robin serenading from a floodlit supermarket car park in Poringland, its song piercing the roar of lorries and shoppers, a testament to avian adaptability in human realms. Back in the farm's tranquil lokes, flanked by ancient ivy-draped hedges, they delve into the robin's winter repertoire: males staking territories with high-pitched tunes from September onwards, forming pair bonds through courtship feeding th...


Episode 2.51 - Solar Shadows and Solstice Songs
12/21/2025

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In a festive yet contemplative midwinter visit to High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin mark the approach of the shortest day with reflections on renewable energy's double-edged sword. Amid the bustling farmyard, tales of a bygone wind pump—installed in the 1930s to harness gusts for electricity and water—spark a journey into modern dilemmas, as they venture to the proposed East Pie Solar Farm in South Norfolk's undulating clay lands. There, amid ancient hedgerows teeming with hares and rabbits, and patchwork fields echoing centuries of cultivation, the vast scheme threatens to b...


Episode 2.50 - Cannon-Seeded Conifers and Winter Warmth
12/14/2025

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In the mild glow of a mid-December morning at High Ash Farm, Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin bask in unseasonably warm skies, where a jay's loping flight heralds a day of countryside revelations. Amidst the lingering half-moon and sun-kissed fields, they explore the enigmatic European larch—a deciduous conifer that defies tradition by shedding its needles, introduced from southern Europe in the 1620s for its graceful form and later prized for its resilient, resin-rich timber. Historical whimsy unfolds with tales of the Duke of Atholl, who, besotted with the tree, fired cannonballs laden wi...


Episode 2.49 - Inside the Hornet Cathedral & the Poisonous Yew
12/07/2025

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Join Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin on a frosty early-December morning as they squeeze inside a 350-year-old hollow oak to stand beneath Britain’s largest wasp species’ abandoned hornet palace – a two-foot-tall paper cathedral of perfect hexagonal brood cells and ventilation chimneys, built by a single overwintering queen who turned a rotten heart into a palace of exquisite engineering.

Discover the deadly beauty of the English yew – the churchyard tree whose blood-red arils tempt birds while every other part (leaves, bark, seed) contains the lethal taxine poison. Hear the story of the 1942...


Episode 2.48 - Bombs, Bootlaces and Winter Orchids
11/30/2025

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Join Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin on a crisp, overcast late-November morning in Fox’s Grove as the last leaves carpet the woodland floor and light floods in for the first time since spring. Stand beside the old ash tree that still bears the carved letters “UXB” from 1942, hold the jagged 3 kg lump of bomb shrapnel that tore through the farmhouse wall while Chris’s pregnant mother sheltered inside, and feel the weight of history on a quiet Norfolk morning.

Discover the invisible killer that terrifies foresters – honey fungus – as Chris peels back b...


Episode 2.47 - Sluice Secrets and Jelly Jiggles
11/23/2025

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Join Chris Skinner and Matthew Gudgin on a crisp November morning venturing to Lakenham Mill on Norwich's outskirts, exploring the historic River Yare's controlled sluices, ancient mill wheels, and granaries that once ground local grains, amid discussions on recent torrential rains unleashing 220 tonnes of water per acre and innovative flood management through managed retreat and river re-wiggling. Return to High Ash Farm to witness the aftermath of storm surges transforming streams into raging torrents, while examining avian flu's grip on isolated rooks and wood pigeons within control zones, and the farm's shift to...