Pondering Play and Therapy Podcast

Julie interviews play therapist Helen Gedge about her background growing up in Brazil, how play remains central in her adult life, and her path from primary teaching to play therapy and a PhD. Helen describes research conducted in 2018–19 at a Brazilian shelter home in Curitiba designed to keep mothers and children together after family violence, using filial therapy to teach mothers core therapeutic play skills (structuring special playtime, following the child’s lead, reflecting feelings, and limit setting). Working mainly with three families over an intensive five-week period, she observed that mothers’ empathy scores improved while she was present but wo...

Philippa Kelly and Julie McCann continue their discussion on “mistakes” in therapeutic work, exploring how errors feel, whether to acknowledge them, and how clients, families, and colleagues perceive them. They consider conflicts between professionals (e.g., schools and CAMHS) and how systemic shortages create “mistakes” beyond any one person, raising the challenge of advocating without giving families false hope. They share in-room examples—forgetting a washing-up bowl for messy play, bringing the wrong snack, or cancelling sessions after a car crash—and show how acknowledging, apologizing, and collaboratively problem-solving can become growth points, while some situations may not need highlighting...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, host interviews Georgie, a children’s occupational therapist from Little Peaks OT, about her move from NHS roles into independent practice to address a gap in sensory processing support. Georgie explains OT as helping children overcome barriers to everyday “occupations” (e.g., dressing, handwriting, cutlery, sitting in lessons) through play-led, child-centred therapy, focusing on strengths and confidence. She describes sensory regulation as helping children feel calm, safe, and grounded, using individualised sensory profiling and toolkits (often called “sensory diets”) such as movement, deep pressure, compression, and environmental adaptations. They discuss neurodivergence (autism, AD...

Julie interviews play therapist and social work lecturer Pete Ayling about how playfulness supports understanding, empathy, and perspective-taking for children and adults. Pete describes his roles teaching social work students, supervising play therapists, and quality-assuring UK play therapy training, and reflects on play in his life through relationships, arts, nature, and identity exploration. They discuss play as symbolic representation that can loosen thinking when experiences are hard to verbalise, and emphasise embodied awareness as a key lens for emotion and connection. Pete explains his PhD on empathy in children and family social work, using Lowenfeld-style sand trays in interviews...

Philippa interviews Lee Smith, a mental health nurse with 30 years’ experience in Tier 4 inpatient children’s services, whose NHS roles included ward management, clinical specialist and consultant posts. Lee describes entering nursing via an interest in psychology, working in forensic CAMHS, and helping rehabilitate highly detained young people through structured leave and relationship-based work. He explains CAMHS tiers 1–4, the emergence of psychiatric intensive care units, and how detention under the Mental Health Act operates. Lee and his late wife Beverly Cyrus founded Cove Care (2008–2025), a specialist residential step-down service integrating mental health and social care, supporting about 300 young people with hig...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, host Philippa interviews Dr. Lisa Cherry—author, speaker, researcher, and consultant—about trauma, adversity, attachment, and compassionate responses to behavior. Cherry shares how her childhood experiences of trauma, being in care, emotional neglect, school exclusion, and homelessness shaped her commitment to social justice and a career spanning residential care, leaving-care teams, education, and independent work. She discusses sustaining oneself through rest and boundaries to avoid feeling “trauma-drenched,” and distinguishes trauma-aware from trauma-informed practice, emphasizing systemic support for staff. Cherry introduces a framework of belonging, mattering, and liminality, arguing people in “in-between” transitions...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, the hosts discuss how “mistakes” in therapeutic work never fully go away and are better understood as learning opportunities. They reflect on recent examples of making unhelpful assumptions in play therapy sessions and meetings with parents, including using materials that were too dysregulating and shortcutting families’ stories due to time pressure and experience-based bias. They explore the value of consistency in the play therapy room, the importance of deep listening and allowing families to define their own truth, and the shame and guilt practitioners can feel even when clients may not notice...

Host Julie interviews Glasgow-based play therapist and With Kids trainer Jeanne McLaughlin about children’s play involving death, dying, and violent themes, based on McLaughlin’s workshop “How to Die Well in the Playroom.” McLaughlin shares her career path into play therapy, With Kids’ work in schools and its MSc training with Queen Margaret University, and why she avoids the term “aggressive play,” reframing it as high-energy play linked to underdeveloped sensory and regulation systems. She describes how children can self-regulate and negotiate rules (e.g., sword-fighting), how reduced free play and adult intervention affect children, and how therapists/parents should...

Margot Sunderland joins Philippa in this weeks episode of Pondering Play and Theraplay.

The conversation explores how “burying” in sandplay can mean different things, from hiding feelings to gaining control, and emphasizes therapist curiosity about what symbols mean for each child. It contrasts direct responses (“Does this feel like something in your life?”) with indirect, metaphor-based approaches for children who cannot or will not talk about feelings, noting metaphor can be more digestible and reduce fight/flight/freeze. A supervision example describes five-year-old Ella, who witnessed domestic violence and uses Pull-Ups while carefully disposing of them; the behavior...

Philippa and Julie close the UK summer term with a Q&A episode featuring listener and play therapist Becky Webb, who shares her career path and asks about working therapeutically during family transitions and around bereavement. They discuss moving beyond blanket rules about waiting for stability or set time periods, focusing instead on assessment, goals, and providing supportive, relational therapy without necessarily doing deep trauma processing, while also supporting “big people” and other professionals around the child. They explore how to respond when children bring trauma into the room, the importance of titrating and ending sessions regulated, and using clea...

Julie hosts Simon Kerr-Edwards on Pondering Play and Therapy to discuss clinical supervision for therapists and school staff, plus Simon’s parent consultations. Simon, a Buckinghamshire-based practitioner, describes training first as a drama therapist, later completing a play therapy master’s at Roehampton after meeting Anne Cattanach, and moving from local authority and CAMHS work into independent practice. They explore why supervision is essential, how it differs from personal therapy, and how supervisors are themselves contained through their own supervision. Simon outlines Hewson and Carroll’s “six supervisory spaces” model: sitting room, studio, observatory, plus office, lecture theatre, and exam room...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, Philippa interviews Matt Wesson, former president of EMDR Association UK, EMDR Europe senior accredited trainer/consultant, and BABCP-accredited CBT therapist with 30 years’ mental health experience across the military, NHS, industry, and private practice. Matt explains EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing) as an eight-phase psychotherapy developed for PTSD and now used for wider issues (e.g., phobias, social anxiety, depression linked to bullying), noting eye movements are a key component but can be replaced with tapping, buzzers, or audio when needed. He describes his path from Royal Navy weapons engineer to De...

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Host Philippa interviews social worker, therapist, author, and international presenter Steph Hunter about her current work and career, largely supporting children in care and trauma-informed services. Steph describes preparing a Canada keynote, “Humanising Services,” through the international Children and Youth Care (CYC) Network, and discusses clinical supervision and training for children’s home providers, work with inpatient services, and association with Mark Finnis on restorative practice. They explore how systems can unintentionally dehumanise and re-traumatise people (e.g., being treated as case numbers, medical assessments, inpatient restrictions, frequent moves), and emphasise curiosity, story-based understanding, trust, and relationship-centred practice. Steph explai...

Julie interviews Tim Woodhouse of Tiptoes Child Therapy Services in northwest England, a multidisciplinary practice founded in 2010, named after Janusz Korczak’s quote about “standing on tiptoes” to reach children’s feelings. They discuss working with children affected by complex developmental trauma (including sexual harm, neglect, physical and emotional abuse, and broader ACE-related factors) and the key question of whether children replaying trauma in play therapy is helpful or harmful. Tim argues children must be free to play about what matters, while therapists monitor arousal and prevent re-traumatisation by keeping the child sufficiently in the present, working at the edges of...

Philippa hosts an episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with guest Louise Robertson, founder of The Sustainables Academy (nominated for the Earthshot Prize in 2025) and a lecturer at Aberdeen University, formerly a teacher and head teacher. Louise explains how the colourful “Sustainables” characters provide a playful hook to help children, educators, parents, and communities understand complex sustainability concepts across water, air, and land, encouraging mindful choices, reduced waste, and critical thinking through play. She describes free, curriculum-aligned resources spanning multiple international curricula, pathways for sustainability, circular economy, and climate mental health, plus “wasters” reminder characters and a parent portal with act...

Philippa and Julie explore how interruptions shape children’s play and emotional wellbeing, from everyday endings like mealtimes, bedtimes and school bells to more harmful breaks when adults are distracted, unwell, or inconsistent. They discuss how predictable routines can help children tolerate frustration, while unexpected or repeated disruptions can affect a child’s sense of value and trust, especially for children with instability, multiple moves, or experiences like COVID-related shutdowns. Drawing on therapy and teaching experience, they highlight the importance of empathy, scaffolding transitions, and playful rituals (jobs, countdowns, goodbye routines, small transitional items) so interruptions don’t feel like r...

Julie welcomes Viv Norris, founder and CEO of the Family Place on the Welsh borders, supporting adoptive and other families across Wales and parts of England, and co-founder of Theraplay UK. Viv traces her path from intense residential therapeutic work with adolescents, through music therapy training and clinical psychology, into 20 years in the NHS and later fostering and adoption services. She explains why she built an independent, team-based service centred on carers, group supervision and video review, and approaches like DDP and Theraplay to support regulation, attachment and relationship, often as “therapy before therapy” for highly dysregulated children and fami...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, host Philippa welcomes back Chicago-based child therapist Mandy Jones to discuss how COVID continues to affect children and families five to six years on. Mandy shares what she’s seeing in her practice with mostly under-8s, especially “COVID babies” now entering or finishing kindergarten: higher baseline anxiety, difficulty with transitions, separation distress, shutdowns or big behaviours, and heightened concerns about germs and mess. They explore how pandemic stress during pregnancy, disrupted birth experiences, reduced touch and co-regulation, and isolation may have shaped children’s nervous systems and sense of safety. The conv...

Philippa welcomes Sarah Naish, bestselling author of The A–Z of Therapeutic Parenting, adopter of five siblings, foster carer, agency founder and keynote speaker. Sarah explains how the book grew from real-life notes and emails into a practical guide that helps carers understand fear-based, trauma-driven behaviour and respond with firm, fair boundaries, nurture, curiosity and linked logical consequences rather than punishment. They discuss how therapeutic parenting differs from “gentle parenting,” the exhaustion and repairs after ruptures, and how Sarah’s children’s books (including William Wobbly and others) help families “name the need” through story. Sarah outlines training and accredited qua...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, Julie speaks with newly qualified play therapist Ellen Dempsey about her Roehampton University dissertation, “Oh, What a Mess,” exploring messy play and therapeutic presence. Ellen shares how her own preference for tidiness created tension, shame, and distraction in the playroom when children used sensory materials, and how supervision and an embodied messy-paint exercise helped her reconnect with the felt experience behind her topic. Using qualitative interviews with three experienced BAPT play therapists and thematic analysis, Ellen examines how therapists stay present during messy play, highlighting preparation, time and space constraints, emotional grou...

Siblings, Roles, and Therapy: Connection, Conflict, and the “Pie” of Attention

Philippa and Julie explore sibling relationships through personal experiences and clinical work, discussing how children take on roles (e.g., “good child,” eldest organiser, protector) and how grief and major life events can reshape sibling bonds. They reflect on how siblings can remember the same childhood events very differently, how play and shared memories can build belonging, and how conflict may reflect developmental negotiation or unmet needs—especially for children affected by trauma, neglect, or instability. They consider “trauma bonds,” parentification, jealousy and competition for attention using the “pie...

Philippa Kelly speaks with Sarah Dillon, consultant psychotherapist and head of therapeutic services for True Fostering and Safer Fostering, about how her own childhood in and out of foster care shapes her child-centered, trauma-informed work. Sarah explains why children react strongly to birth family contact, how sibling conflict can stem from trauma bonds, unmet needs, shame, and difficulty holding dual attachments, and how caregivers can use empathy, visuals (like her “pie” analogy), and consistent “PACE” narratives to keep relationships intact. She outlines her agencies’ proactive approach, including the Trauma Tracker tool and life story work, and describes compassion fatigue (including...

Julie welcomes clinical psychologist and Theraplay practitioner Joanna Blundell Jones, who works at Sheffield Children’s Hospital in paediatric oncology/haematology and supports patients across their cancer experiences, often especially during and after treatment, with flexibility around timing and session numbers. Joanna shares how play shows up in her own life (gospel choir, board games), how during treatment therapeutic work sometimes focuses on containment and helping families “get through,” and how after treatment she uses Theraplay to rebuild connection, especially when medical procedures and necessary restraint have affected children’s comfort with touch and closeness. They discuss the distinct role tha...

Philippa and Julie continue their conversation on resistance, focusing on the adults around a child—parents, carers, and professionals—and how “putting the brakes on” can be protective, necessary, or linked to safeguarding concerns like hidden compliance. They explore how mandated therapy, ongoing assessments, shame, fear of judgment, and the realities of trauma-informed parenting can fuel pushback, and share examples from TheraPlay and play therapy, including parents declining therapy after gaining clarity and parents feeling pain when a child engages more easily with the therapist. The episode also looks at systemic resistance in schools, CAMHS pathways, and processes like EHCPs, a...

Philippa interviews Marneta Viegas, founder of Relax Kids, which began 25 years ago as the UK’s first company offering children’s relaxation and mental health tools. Marneta shares her performing arts background, years as a children’s entertainer and mime performer, and how she noticed children increasingly struggled to sit still, listen, and concentrate. A breakthrough came when she introduced visualisation at parties and began transforming fairy stories into meditations, leading to her first book and later books and audio resources. She describes the Relax Kids seven-step method—move, play, stretch, feel, breathe, believe, relax—developed through classes in homes, sch...

Philippa and Julie introduce the first episode in a two-part series on resistance, focusing here on children and young people in therapy (with a follow-up episode planned on resistance from parents, carers, and other professionals). Drawing on their different approaches—TheraPlay (more adult-led) and child-centred play therapy (more child-led)—they explore what resistance can look like: refusing or tweaking an activity, avoiding certain play areas, repeated toilet breaks, zoning out, overly compliant behaviour, or constant chatter. They discuss how resistance can trigger therapist feelings of hurt, rejection, or self-doubt, especially early in training, and how experience and supervision help refr...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, Philippa talks with Katie Wrench, a social worker, psychotherapist, head of service at BUSS, and an author. Katie discusses therapeutic life story work, explaining its importance for children who have experienced disruption, particularly those in foster care or adoption. She emphasises the need to help children develop a coherent narrative of their journey, integrating their fragmented memories to understand their identity and relationships better. Katie also addresses the role of social workers and caregivers, the challenges of involving children in life story work, and the importance of maintaining memory boxes and...

In this episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' host Philippa welcomes Oliver, a trainee clinical psychologist. They discuss the extensive and multifaceted training path for clinical psychologists in the UK, which includes clinical placements, research, and academic work. Oliver explains the importance of evidence-based practice, the variety of therapeutic approaches like CBT, DBT, and CFT, and the practical challenges faced during training. He shares his diverse experiences working in acute and urgent care, CAMHS, and other settings. The conversation also highlights the competitive nature of gaining entry to doctoral programs and the ongoing efforts to diversify the field...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, host Philippa interviews Kim Golding, CBE, a clinical psychologist, author, and expert in dyadic developmental psychotherapy (DDP) with over 30 years of experience. Kim shares her unconventional journey into psychology, her long tenure in the NHS, and her work with children affected by early relational trauma. The discussion covers the evolution of attachment theory, the challenges of working with foster and adoptive families, and the development and importance of the PACE model (Playfulness, Acceptance, Curiosity, and Empathy) in creating supportive environments for traumatised children. Kim also highlights the importance of long-term support...

The State of Play in England: A Deep Dive with Eugene Minogue, Executive Director of Play England

Welcome to this week's episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with Philippa and special guest Eugene Minogue, the executive director of Play England. In this episode, Eugene delves into the history, challenges, and current state of play in England. The conversation discusses Eugene's volunteer role in Play England, its evolution from the Children's Play Council, and the impacts of government policies on play opportunities. Eugene elaborates on Play England's new 10-year strategy to restore a play-based childhood and the organization's...

In this episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' Philippa and Julie explore the concept of 'just playing' in therapeutic contexts. They discuss the fine line between play and therapy, sharing personal anecdotes and insights on how play can serve different roles for children. They reflect on the pressure therapists face to meet goals within limited sessions and emphasise the importance of allowing children the freedom to guide the play. They also touch on building agency, establishing safety in relationships, and the therapeutic value of unstructured play.

Window of Tolerance - Dan Seigel - https://www.nicabm...

In this episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' Philippa interviews Ruth Hayles, service lead for Contextual Safeguarding and Youth Justice, about her 18-year career working across children's services. Ruth shares insights on her journey, highlighting the importance of early intervention, youth justice, and building trusting relationships with children and families. She explains concepts such as early help, child-first practice, and restorative justice. Ruth also discusses innovative programs like the 'fresh air approach,' emphasising creative and therapeutic methods to engage and support youth in the justice system. The episode underscores the significance of relational practice, trauma-informed care, and...

In this episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' host Julie interviews Frankie, a recent graduate with a master's degree in play therapy from Roehampton University. They discuss Frankie's research on play therapy for young carers—children under 18 who provide emotional or physical care for a family member. The conversation explores the challenges young carers face, such as the burden of care, silenced voices, and systemic gaps in support. Frankie shares insights from interviews with play therapists and highlights the importance of early therapeutic interventions, advocacy, and awareness in supporting young carers. The episode emphasises the critical need for in...

Understanding Trauma in Children: Insights from Dr. Karen Treisman | Pondering Play and Therapy

Welcome to this week's episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with Philippa, featuring Dr. Karen Treisman, a clinical psychologist, author, and MBE award recipient. Dive deep into the world of trauma as Dr. Treisman elaborates on different types of trauma—cultural, intergenerational, and more—while highlighting the significance of trauma-informed approaches. Discover how trauma impacts children and families, and explore the nuances between being trauma-aware and trauma-informed. Dr. Treisman also discusses her extensive work, including her renowned books and practical resources designed to support chil...

In this episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' Julie interviews Philippa Kelly about her career journey in play therapy with children and families. Kelly reflects on her year-long co-hosting experience, her struggles with self-doubt, and how she overcame significant challenges. Key highlights include her path from a troubled school life to becoming a social worker, completing a family therapy degree, and ultimately, a practitioner at Gateway Psychological Services. The episode delves into her valuable lessons from mentors and experiences, emphasising the importance of communication, compassion, and critically evaluating therapeutic methods. Philippa candidly shares her ongoing struggles with imposter...

In the milestone 50th episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy,' Philippa and Julie reflect on their podcast journey over the past year. They discuss how the podcast has influenced their professional practices, thoughts about play and therapy, and personal growth. They also recount interviews with various experts, including insights on unstructured play, the role of play in emotional regulation, and the importance of both structured and free play in child development. Additionally, they invite listeners to engage with the podcast and share their own experiences and ideas for future episodes. The hosts express gratitude to their guests and...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, Julie hosts Alan Herron, CEO of Play Board Northern Ireland. They discuss the organisation’s 40-year history, founded during the troubles of the mid-1980s in Northern Ireland, to offer children safe play opportunities amidst political unrest. Alan shares insights on the significance of play in breaking down societal barriers and fostering community cohesion. They explore current programmes like Positive Playgrounds and inclusive play initiatives, emphasizing the ongoing need for planning reforms and a comprehensive play strategy to better serve children, including those with disabilities. Alan also reflects on his own pl...

In this episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, Philippa interviews Sarah Amanda, a relationship manager for the Arts Council England and a playwright, director, and dramaturg. They discuss the role of a dramaturg in shaping and supporting scripts, as well as the diverse responsibilities of a relationship manager in connecting artists and organisations across various art forms. Sarah shares her experiences with different projects, including mental health workshops for young people and a powerful personal film. They also explore the significance of diversity in theatre and how art serves as both a reflection of society and a source of...

In this week's episode of Pondering Play and Therapy, host Philippa interviews her co-host Julie about her diverse career path. Julie shares her early aspirations of becoming a car mechanic or ballerina, but ultimately became a primary school teacher. She narrates her transition to play therapy, influenced by her experiences with children in the classroom and a particular puppet, Rita, who helped her connect with students. Julie discusses her further training in play therapy, working with children in various settings including homes, and her current role as a university lecturer. The conversation delves into the emotional challenges and rewarding...