Buy the Numbers

IMTS is about a week and a half out. Most people heading to Chicago are showing up with a shopping list, and the ones who aren't will still find something on the floor that makes them start one. Either way, there's a question worth answering before you get there. What can you actually pay for?

We've been trained to do this everywhere else in our lives. You don't tour houses without a pre-approval. A lot of us call our banker before we buy a car. Then we walk into a hall full of quarter million dollar machines...

There's $35.8 million sitting in a federal fund built to pay manufacturers for hiring and training apprentices, and most shop owners have never heard of it. It pays $3,500 per apprentice. It's first come, first served. And when the money runs out, it's gone.

That's the American Manufacturing Apprenticeship Incentive Fund, or AMAIF, and it's what we dug into on this episode. Phil Hanke is back in the co-host seat and he brought Abby Mataya, who leads CLA's state and local business incentives team, to walk through exactly how it works.

Here's the part I want you...

Almost every shop owner I talk to has told themselves the same story at some point: we are too small for a real ERP, so we will keep running the business on the old system and a pile of Excel spreadsheets. On this episode, I wanted to kill that myth, because the cost of believing it shows up in underpriced jobs, broken handoffs, and a value chain that quietly leaks money from quote to cash.

To dig in, I brought in Jon Hughes, a CFO consultant and principal at CLA, and Brian Schoonover, corporate controller and acting...

You spend money on a website, LinkedIn posts, maybe some email and a trade show booth, and then you ask the question every owner asks: is any of this actually working? For most of us the honest answer is a gut feel. The machines are cutting chips, so marketing must be doing its job. That is not data, and on this episode I wanted real, practical advice on how to know.

So I brought in Brendon Forrest from Gorilla 76, cohost of The Manufacturing Marketer, to walk through it with me. Brendon's whole world is building and running...

Most shop owners believe the number on their business is locked in by their earnings. It isn't. Two shops with identical profit can sell for wildly different prices, and the gap almost always comes back to one question a buyer is quietly working out in their head: does this thing run without you?

For this one I brought back Phil Hanke from CLA and added Heather Parbst, who leads CLA's owner transition advisory team, to dig into the owner bottleneck. Not the operational kind everybody talks about, but the identity kind. The traits that built your shop—th...

Most shop owners never sell a business before the day they actually sell theirs. You build something for thirty years, then one phone call later you're trying to figure out what it's worth, what the buyer is really paying for, and why the number in your head doesn't match the offer on the table. The fix is simple to say and hard to do: start thinking like a buyer long before you ever plan to sell.

In this episode I sat down with the deal team from CLA (Phil Hanke, Erin Mickels, and Brady Paschke), to walk...

Part two of a good conversation is where things usually get real. In this episode, I pick back up with Nush Ahmed and Brooke Laing from Sisterhood of Trades, and we get into the questions most shop owners quietly wonder about but rarely say out loud: why more women aren't walking through the door, what it actually looks like to attract them, and whether our instinct to "just hire good people" is actually enough.

One of the things that struck me in this conversation is how simple some of the answers are. Women aren't applying to manufacturing...

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Nush Ahmed and Brooke Laing for one of the more entertaining and eye-opening conversations I've had in a while. What started with jokes about generational slang and communication styles quickly turned into a serious discussion about leadership, workplace culture, and what younger generations are actually looking for in manufacturing careers.

As someone who's spent decades building teams and leading manufacturing companies, I've seen firsthand how much the workforce has changed. Today, many companies have four or even five generations working side by side, each with different...

Recorded live from the DN Solutions open house near Chicago, this special crossover episode blends the worlds of Buy the Numbers and Lights Out into one conversation about manufacturing growth, automation, and the real numbers behind machine tool investments. Surrounded by machines making chips all around us, we dive into what actually drives smart capital expenditures in a modern machine shop.

Throughout the episode, we unpack the balancing act between financial discipline and strategic growth. From twin-spindle turning centers to automated five-axis workflows, we discuss how manufacturers should think about throughput, spindle utilization, labor constraints, machine consolidation...

If you're like most shop owners, HR, payroll, and benefits are necessary evils—important, but far from the reason you got into manufacturing in the first place. Yet those "back-office" functions can quietly drain your time, introduce risk, and even limit your ability to attract and retain great people.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike sits down with Jon from Thrive PEO to unpack one of the most misunderstood tools available to small and mid-sized manufacturers: the Professional Employer Organization (PEO). What starts as a conversation about payroll quickly expands into a broader discussion about ri...

Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44

Manufacturing will humble you—no matter how good you get. I was talking with someone recently about how this might be the only industry where you can perform at a world-class level and still lose money on scrap. That's just the reality we operate in. So the question becomes: how do you build a business that can actually handle that kind of pressure?

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Scott Shortess—someone I've known and trusted for...

What actually makes leadership work in a manufacturing environment? Is it KPIs, lean systems, and dashboards? Or is it something far more human?

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jason Woodard, COO of Geislinger Corporation and author of Manufacturing Leadership That Works, to unpack the leadership principles that drive real operational performance.

While the conversation touches on KPIs, accountability, and operating cadence, the foundation is surprisingly simple: trust. Jason argues that before you can improve numbers, you have to earn credibility with your team through transparency, vulnerability, and consistency.

CMMC is no longer something manufacturers can afford to ignore.

If you're doing work in the defense supply chain—or even thinking about it—this is quickly becoming a requirement, not a "nice to have." And what makes it challenging is that it's not just about passing an audit. It's about how your entire business handles data, systems, and security.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, we break down what CMMC actually means for manufacturers in practical terms. What does it require? What does it cost? And how do you even begin to approach some...

Most of the time on Buy the Numbers, we focus on revenue growth, margin improvement, cash flow strategy, or capital investments. But in this episode, we turn our attention to something many manufacturers rarely question: utility expenses.

Electricity. Gas. Water. Sewer. Waste.

For most of us, these bills show up, we pay them, and we move on. They're viewed as fixed costs of doing business. But what if they're not as fixed as we think?

In this episode, I'm joined by Lori Demeyer and Leticia Lawson from CliftonLarsonAllen to talk about utility assessments — wh...

Too many manufacturers treat taxes as a once-a-year compliance exercise. You gather the documents, sign the return, write the check, and move on. But the reality is that tax planning is one of the most powerful strategic tools available to business owners, especially in capital-intensive industries like manufacturing.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I'm joined by Dylan Valentyn and Julie Helms from CliftonLarsonAllen to walk through what manufacturers should actually be thinking about as they prepare their 2025 returns and look ahead to 2026. This conversation builds on recent tax law changes and focuses less on loopholes...

Quality is often treated like a cost center in manufacturing. Something we have to do to satisfy customers, auditors, or certifications. But in my experience, quality is much more than that. It's one of the biggest drivers of cash flow, reputation, and long-term profitability in a shop. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Mehul from Ground Control to talk through the real, often hidden, cost of quality.

Our conversation starts with a simple but critical idea: parts don't get paid for unless the paperwork is right. You can machine a perfect part...

One of the patterns I keep seeing in manufacturing has nothing to do with machines, software, or technology. It shows up in how teams respond when something goes wrong. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down again with Josh McKain from Throughput Mastery to talk about the habits that actually drive throughput, especially accountability, communication, and culture.

Josh has now hosted more than a dozen live conversations with manufacturing owners and leaders, and what stood out to me is how often completely different topics circle back to the same root issue. Whether the discussion...

What changes when you're not building a business to sell, but building one to hand down? That's the question that kept coming up for me in this conversation. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Jack Watson of HFW Industries, a fourth-generation manufacturer whose family has been operating the same business for nearly 80 years.

Jack's story starts with his great-grandfather in 1947, fresh out of World War II, taking a bet on an emerging technology that would eventually become the foundation of HFW's identity. What struck me wasn't just the history, but how that...

Inventory is one of the most overlooked levers in manufacturing finance, yet it is often the single largest asset sitting on a company's balance sheet. In this bonus episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne is joined by inventory accounting experts Erica Parra and Cindy Houser from CLA to unpack why inventory accounting methods deserve far more attention than they typically receive.

Most manufacturers default to FIFO or weighted average simply because that is how their ERP is set up. But in periods of inflation, tariffs, and volatile raw material pricing, that default choice can quietly cost...

Innovation in manufacturing is often framed as a technology problem. Better machines, faster software, smarter automation. But in this episode of Buy the Numbers, the conversation takes a different turn, one that looks past tools and toward the human systems that actually make innovation stick.

Mike Payne is joined once again by Al Whatmough, CEO of Toolpath, for a wide-ranging discussion on why innovation truly happens at the speed of communication and why trust, relationships, and shared experiences matter more than ever in an AI-driven world. From AI-powered productivity to the limitations of traditional trade shows, Al...

KPIs can feel like a buzzword—every manufacturer knows they should be tracking them, but few feel confident about where to start or what actually matters. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne sits down once again with Jon Hughes of CLA to unpack the real purpose of KPIs, why they're so misunderstood, and how data-driven decision-making can completely change the way a shop performs.

Mike and Jon dive into the QDISC framework—Quality, Delivery, Inventory, Safety, and Cost—and explore how these five buckets give manufacturers a clear, stable foundation for visibility. But they don't...

In this special crossover episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne joins Josh McCain on The Throughput Show for a fully interactive, live conversation about one of the most misunderstood and mission-critical topics in manufacturing: cash flow. Unlike traditional episodes, this one unfolds in real time with audience questions, open dialogue, and the kind of raw, honest examples operators rarely get to hear outside of private masterminds.

Josh kicks off the episode with his hallmark energy and levity—complete with an unexpected "musical" intro for guests Mike, Jon Hughes, and Phil Hanke of CLA—before guiding the conv...

When Section 179 and bonus depreciation come back into play, it's easy to get swept up in the excitement of "saving on taxes." Every year around this time, I start hearing from shop owners who are ready to buy a new machine before the end of Q4—sometimes for the right reasons, but often for the wrong ones. Don't get me wrong, I love a good deduction as much as anyone. But if you wouldn't buy that equipment without the tax break, you probably shouldn't buy it because of it.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I si...

When tariffs, trade policy, and cash flow collide, manufacturers are forced to think creatively—or risk being crushed by uncertainty. That's exactly where Mary Buchzeiger, CEO of Lucerne International and Lucerne Global Solutions, found herself. With skyrocketing tariffs on imported automotive components, Mary realized the solution wasn't to absorb the hit—it was to rewrite the playbook altogether.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, we dig into how Mary leveraged a little-known financial and logistical strategy: the Foreign Trade Zone (FTZ). By turning Lucerne's Michigan facility into an FTZ, she found a way to defer duties, opti...

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, host Mike Payne sits down with continuous improvement coach and Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt Brian Karp to dig into the metrics that matter most for manufacturing leaders. Together, they explore how data can be used not just to measure performance, but to transform culture, drive engagement, and spark meaningful improvement across every department.

For more than a decade, Brian has helped manufacturers simplify their approach to measurement—turning overwhelming spreadsheets and endless KPIs into tools that actually guide better decisions. He and Mike talk about where to start wh...

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Roger Atkins, President of the National Tooling and Machining Association (NTMA), to talk about the real state of U.S. manufacturing as we close out 2025. Representing more than 1,000 small and medium manufacturers nationwide, Roger brings a boots-on-the-ground perspective to the headwinds, opportunities, and trends shaping the industry right now.

The conversation goes well beyond statistics to explore the forces behind them. Roger shares his preview of the MTForecast conference and NTMA's ENGAGE event, pulling back the curtain on survey data straight from job shops across America...

When you're buying a machine shop for the first time, it's easy to feel like you're lost in the dark. I've been through more than 150 transactions in my career, but I still remember what it was like sitting across from my first seller—wondering if I was asking the right questions or if I was missing something important. That's why I love conversations like this one.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jeff Lee, Operations Manager at Hayer Engineering in Singapore. Jeff reached out after listening to some of our episodes on ac...

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike Payne sits down with Dave Necessary, Executive Vice President of Products and Markets at Gardner Business Media, to dig into the power of benchmarking and the Top Shops program. For more than a decade, Top Shops has been the definitive survey that shows manufacturers where they stand—highlighting the practices, strategies, and investments that consistently separate the best from everyone else.

Dave shares how the survey functions like a business health check-up, providing both an industry-wide benchmarking standards report and a personalized scorecard for participating shops. From capital investment an...

Selling a business is rarely just about the numbers—and in this episode of Buy the Numbers, we explore why. Recorded at the CLA Connect Center in Minnesota, Mike Payne and guest co-host Erin Mickels sit down with two sets of owners who have recently gone through the process of selling their companies. From fielding unsolicited offers to choosing between 26 potential buyers, their stories highlight the strategic, emotional, and deeply personal factors that shape a sale.

Joel Bauer of Midsota Manufacturing shares his unlikely journey from part-time welder to co-owner of a thriving 132-employee operation. When industry co...

If you think selling your business is just about getting the highest number, think again. In Part II of my conversation with the all-star team at CLA—Erin Mickels, Mike Britten, and Mike Pohl—we dig into the fine print that can make or break your deal after the handshake. From LOIs to sales price allocations to working capital battles, this is where the real money is won or lost.

We start with what seems like a formality—signing the LOI—but as you'll hear, that's often the moment your leverage walks out the door. I've seen it first...

If you've ever thought, "I'll sell when I'm ready"—you're already behind. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with three powerhouse advisors from CLA—Erin Mickels (owner transition expert), Mike Britten (tax wizard), and Mike Pohl (wealth whisperer)—to unpack what it really takes to set yourself up for a successful exit from your manufacturing business.

We talk through the overlooked planning window between "someday I'll sell" and "it's time to list." Whether you're ten years out or just three, this conversation will help you shift your mindset from just growing revenue to buildi...

When I first heard about the "One Big Beautiful Bill," I knew we had to break it down for the MakingChips audience. This isn't just another tax update—it's a massive, 900-page piece of legislation with real implications for manufacturers like us. Whether you're thinking about buying equipment, expanding your facility, hiring more people, or selling your business down the road, the OBBB touches nearly every part of the decision-making process.

That's why I called up my friends at CLA—Susan Roberts and Steve Combs—two tax pros who spend every day helping manufacturers figure out what's changi...

I'm halfway through the year and, like many of you, I feel as if it's still February. Orders are steady but not spectacular, and every headline seems designed to keep shop owners awake at night. That's why I invited my friend and financing partner Ty Willis back on Buy the Numbers—because cautious optimism only works if your cash flow can keep up with your ambitions.

Ty funds machine tools every day, from three-spindle startups to $40 million fab shops, so he sees the real score behind the press releases. In this conversation we pull the veil off eq...

What happens when a former MLB.com writer ends up leading marketing for one of the most complex machine tool portfolios in the country? You get a masterclass in translating business goals into real marketing ROI.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Jon Star—Director of Marketing at Methods Machine Tools—joins us for a conversation about data-driven marketing, building trust with job shops, and how to actually prove your impact in manufacturing.

Jon shares his winding path from sports journalism to enterprise tech to metalworking, revealing how his background in internal communications and exec...

What if I told you that your accounting function could be your greatest weapon in the fight for better margins, smarter decisions, and stronger growth? Too often, we treat accounting like a chore—just another box to check, another invoice to send. But if you're serious about building a resilient, efficient, and scalable manufacturing business, then it's time to look at accounting as a strategic function.

In this episode, I'm joined by three experts from CLA—Phil Hanke, Mary Strand, and David Mauch—who live and breathe operational accounting for manufacturers. We dig into how small to midsiz...

Most golfers obsess over their gear—but almost none of them build it. Jared Doerfler did. After playing college golf and spending years in sales, he found himself pulled back into the game he loved—but this time, through the lens of product creation. With zero machining experience, he quit his job, bought a beginner CNC mill, and decided to manufacture putters himself, from his garage.

In this episode, we dive into how Jared taught himself CAD/CAM, figured out the physics behind great putter design, and slowly carved out a niche in a crowded marketplace. This wasn...

Most of us shop owners tend to keep compensation pretty simple: pay ourselves what the business can afford, pay our team what feels fair, and hope that keeps everyone happy. But I've learned over the years that this approach can quietly hurt the very business we're trying to grow.

In this episode, I sit down with John Jones from Scissortail Executive Advisors to dig into how owner and executive compensation really works—and how getting strategic about it can lead to better retention, stronger tax positioning, and a more valuable business overall.

John and I ta...

Most of us would never machine a part without checking the tolerances first — so why do so many shop owners sign off on financing agreements without understanding the performance "tolerances" our banks are quietly measuring us against?

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, commercial banker Danny O'Keefe returns to break down two terms that sound like dry legal jargon but carry real operational consequences: loan covenants and personal guarantees. If your shop relies on bank financing to grow, these aren't just details — they're the guardrails shaping what we can do, and what could get us in trou...

Tariffs aren't just a line item buried in your supply chain—they're a fast-moving, often misunderstood force that could have a massive impact on your profitability, pricing, and even your global strategy. In this eye-opening episode of Buy the Numbers, Jennifer Clement and Leslie Boyd from CLA join me for a masterclass in tariff mitigation strategies. As volatility re-emerges on the global trade front, Jennifer and Leslie offer clarity, practical steps, and a proactive roadmap that manufacturers of all sizes can follow.

Jennifer and Leslie break down the reality that waiting for the rules to settle is no...

Most small manufacturers don't realize they're being quietly supported by one of the most impactful public-private partnerships in the country. The Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) has long been the hidden backbone behind training programs, grant facilitation, process improvements, and critical tech upgrades for shops across the U.S. But recent Federal decisions to defund these programs—without clear communication or reasoning—have sparked confusion and alarm among industry insiders.

In this episode, a passionate roundtable of manufacturers and advocates reveals just how deeply the MEPs have shaped their businesses, supported workforce development, and opened doors to opportunity they...