The Strong New York Podcast

40 Episodes
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By: Kenny Santucci

Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift. The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life. Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space. With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as...

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Jon Buret on Paying Strangers to Stop Eating Fast Food, Going Viral, and Building a Personal Brand
#98
Yesterday at 11:41 PM

Jon Buret (@thewellroundedhuman) walks up to strangers outside McDonald’s in New York City and offers to pay for a healthier meal instead. In about a year, that idea has taken him from personal trainer to one of the city’s fastest-rising wellness creators. Now he’s taking it to schools.

In this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny sits down with Jon to talk about what it takes to build something real online, and what happens when people try to copy it.

In this episode:

- Why Jon got sick of foo...


Dating App CEO Reveals What Most People Get Wrong | Rob Long
#97
11/04/2026

Dating apps are broken. Here’s how one CEO is fixing them, one HYROX blind date at a time. 

This week, Kenny sits down with Rob Long, co-founder and CEO of Surf Dating, the official dating app of HYROX. They cover why swiping keeps you stuck, why your profile should be the most honest thing on your phone, and how blind dates in the HYROX start tunnel turned into the best content in fitness.

In this episode:

Why “I’m not on apps” is a lie (60%+ of relationships now start digitally)Why Surf bet against A...


The Business of Fitness with Michael Ramsey
#96
10/07/2026

Michael Ramsay is the co-founder of STRONG Pilates, a rapidly growing boutique fitness brand that has expanded to more than 100 locations around the world.

He joins Kenny Santucci on the Strong New York Podcast to talk:
- Why most underperforming gyms have a leads, sales conversion, or retention problem.
- The biggest mistakes gym owners make when trying to scale.
- How STRONG Pilates uses presales and community building before a studio even opens.
- Why accountability, management, and the right operators are critical to running a successful gym.
- How Michael...


Firefighter to Biohacker: Sam Tejada on Peptides, TRT & the Wellness Wild West
#95
09/23/2026

This week on Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci sits down with Sam Tejada — former firefighter/paramedic turned founder of Liquivida. Sam has spent two decades in functional and alternative medicine, and he breaks down exactly what's really happening in the booming (and increasingly unregulated) world of peptides, IV therapy, and hormone optimization.

In this episode, we get into:

- How Sam went from fighting fires to building one of the leading IV therapy companies in the country
- Why the peptide and biohacking space has become the "Wild West" — and how to spot the...


What It Really Takes to Build a Successful Business with Olivia Ormos
#94
09/16/2026

Olivia Ormos is the founder of Mavn and co-founder of Model Volleyball, an event that has become a staple of Miami culture.

After years of producing events and managing influencer campaigns manually, Olivia decided to build the technology she couldn’t find anywhere else. Despite having no previous experience in tech, she bootstrapped Mavn, proved the concept and raised $1.5 million to continue scaling the company.

In this episode, Kenny and Olivia discuss: 
- How Model Volleyball became so successful
- The story of paying Travis Scott $15,000 in cash to perform on the beach
...


How the Legal System Failed Bruce Bryan
#93
09/09/2026

At 23, Bruce Bryan was arrested for a murder he didn't commit and sentenced to 37.5 years to life. It took 29 years — and a signature from Governor Kathy Hochul — for him to walk free.

In this episode, Bruce joins Kenny to talk about the wrongful conviction that stole nearly three decades of his life — a crooked prosecutor, an unfit defense attorney, and years spent in Rikers Island and Sing Sing. But more than that, it's a conversation about mindset: how he refused to let prison define him, the difference between loneliness and being alone, and how books like Man's Search...


Attachment Expert, Chris Davids on Why You Want Love but Can't Trust it
#92
09/02/2026

Kenny Santucci sits down with Chris Davids (@EvolvedByChris) — a former physician turned attachment coach who dated 300+ women after his divorce and grew his following from 0 to 300K in six months by telling the truth about relationships.

They break down the anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment styles running most people's dating lives, why men and women process stress and "peace" completely differently, why chasing dopamine early kills relationships, and what women actually want from a man (hint: it's not his bank account).

In this episode:

The 3 attachment styles that predict how someone datesWhy "honesty" in da...


Ben Greenfield Reveals The Dark Side of Biohacking That Almost Ruined His Life
#91
08/26/2026

Ben Greenfield built his life around mastering the human body, biohacking and optimizing performance with some of the most extreme methods possible. 

But behind the image of success, everything was beginning to fall apart. After nearly losing his marriage and family, one of the world’s leading biohackers was forced to confront a question no protocol could answer: What is optimization worth if it costs you everything that matters?

Today, Kenny Santucci and Ben Greenfield discuss:

- Extreme biohacks involving blood filtration, gene therapy and stem cells
- The dangerous “shortcut mentality” taking...


Former UFC World Champion: How I’m Using Ketones to Treat Brain Trauma
#90
08/19/2026

Matt Hughes is widely regarded as one of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time. He is a UFC Hall of Famer, two-time UFC welterweight champion and the first man to defeat Georges St-Pierre inside the Octagon.

After a near-fatal accident in 2017, Matt was left with a traumatic brain injury, but he's been rebuilding ever since. That’s where Clifford Morgan and Kenetik come in. 

Kenetik is a sugar-free, caffeine-free ketone drink designed to provide an alternative source of fuel for the body and brain.

In this episode of the Strong New Yor...


UFC Championship Coach: Why Leaving Fighting is so Hard, Making Elite Fighters and MORE (Phil Daru)
#89
08/12/2026

Phil Daru has trained some of the biggest names in combat sports — Dustin Poirier, Amanda Nunes, and countless UFC and ONE Championship fighters — and built one of the most respected performance training brands in the game. 

In this episode, Kenny sits down with Phil to talk about the concussion that ended his pro fighting career, the framework he built at American Top Team that shaped how he coaches today, and how he's now applying those same principles to busy executives and entrepreneurs through his partnership with Marek Health.

We get into readiness tracking and auto-regulation, why w...


This Mindset Shift Separates The 1% from Everyone Else | Giovanni Vaccaro
#88
08/05/2026

On this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci sits down with Giovanni Vaccaro — co-founder of Glamsquad, an on-demand beauty service platform and founder of Peak Mode Coaching, his high-performance coaching business for executives, founders, and entrepreneurs.

Strength isn't just something you build in the gym — it's a mindset. Giovanni breaks down his journey from shampooing hair 25-30 times a day at a top Manhattan salon to building a beauty-tech company from the ground up, and the mental toughness, discipline, and "radical responsibility" that took him from stylist to CEO to executive coach. This one...


Everything You Know About Renting is Wrong with Sam Bakhshandehpour
#87
07/29/2026

This week on Strong New York Podcast, Kenny sits down with Sam Bakhshandehpour, President of Merchants at Bilt, the platform that turned paying rent — historically "the worst day of the month" — into a rewards-earning, community-building experience.


Sam's story starts long before Bilt: fleeing Iran with his mother at age 6 during the revolution, believing his father had been executed, then rebuilding a life from nothing in America. That immigrant grit carried him through decades in hospitality — running 80+ hotels and 50+ restaurants, including time at the Ritz-Carlton — before he came in-house at Bilt to help build what he calls a "B2B2C...


Dr. David Rabin: The Neuroscience of Learning, Safety & Why Gen Z's Brains Are Struggling
Dr. David Rabin: The Neuroscience of Learning, Safety & Why Gen Z's Brains Are Struggling episode artwork
#86
07/08/2026

Psychiatrist and neuroscientist Dr. Dave Rabin (co-founder of Apollo Neuroscience) joins Kenny Santucci to break down why modern life feels so complicated — and why it doesn't have to be. From his new book "A Simple Guide to Being Alive," Dr. Rabin explains the neuroscience of bottom-up learning, why Gen Z is the first generation to score lower on cognitive tests than the one before it, how screens hijack your nervous system, and why feeling safe is the foundation of learning, healing, and manifestation. They also get into caffeine, nicotine, and nootropics from a neuroscientist's perspective — and why we should trea...


Can Caffeine & Nicotine Actually Make You Smarter? with Dr. David Putrino
#85
07/01/2026

Most people have been told caffeine and nicotine are bad for you — but what does the science actually say? This week, host Kenny Santucci sits down with Dr. David Putrino, neuroscientist and Director of Rehab Innovation at Mount Sinai, to break down the truth behind nootropics, brain optimization, and the substances that could sharpen your focus and performance.

Dr. Putrino shares what it's really like to work at the intersection of elite athletic performance and clinical rehabilitation — and why the strategies used to train special forces operators and professional athletes aren't that different from what helps stroke pati...


Running 4,600 Miles Across the Sahara, 18 Months in Federal Prison & 33 Years Sober with Charlie Engle
#84
06/24/2026

What does it take to run across the Sahara Desert, survive federal prison, maintain 33 years of sobriety — and come home to be a full-time caretaker for the person you love? Charlie Engle has lived all of it.


In this episode, Kenny sits down with ultramarathon legend, New York Times bestselling author, and charity: water ambassador Charlie Engle for one of the most raw, real, and inspiring conversations we've ever had on the show.


In this episode:

Why being a caretaker for his wife for 10+ years has been harder than any race or pr...


The Future of Clean Caffeine with Richard Mumby, CEO of Wip Energy
#83
06/17/2026

What if you could get all the energy of a pre-workout or energy drink — without the bloat, the bubbles, or the $6 price tag? Richard Mumby, CEO of Wip Energy, is betting the answer fits in the palm of your hand.

In this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci sits down with Richard to break down why Wip's clean caffeine pouches are disrupting a multi-billion dollar industry — and why 85% of Americans who already consume caffeine daily are ready for something smarter.

In this episode, we cover:
- Why energy drinks are losi...


The Man Who Invented Personal Training: Body by Jake
#82
06/10/2026

This week, Kenny sits down with Jake Steinfeld — the man who literally invented the personal training industry.


Jake opens up about losing his home in the LA Palisades fire, why he still trains at 4:15am every single day, turning down Nike before they created "Just Do It," and the anonymous poem that shaped his entire life philosophy from age 14.

From posing with the Village People to doing stunt work as The Incredible Hulk, from Cold Calls in Hollywood to building a fitness empire seen in 90+ countries — this episode is a masterclass in betting on your...


He Went from Corporate Finance to Exposing the Fitness Industry's Biggest Trends - Jake Heyen
#81
06/03/2026

This week Kenny Santucci sits down with Jake Heyen — the fitness industry analyst and founder of Wellworthy who blew up on Instagram by delivering no-BS, news-style breakdowns of the brands, events, and trends shaping health and fitness culture.


Jake shares the full story: from studying finance and statistics in college, to building a workout subscription platform during COVID, to joining Playbook as Director of Operations — and ultimately growing one of the most trusted voices in the fitness media space.

In this episode, we get into:

How Jake built his audience from zero with a co...


The Man Who Wants to Change Sports Forever - Christian Angermayer, Founder of the Enhanced Games
#80
05/29/2026

On this special bonus episode of the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny sits down with Christian Angermayer, founder of the Enhanced Games — a new global sports competition that recently made its debut in Las Vegas, where elite athletes pushed the limits of human performance and are openly encouraged to use performance-enhancing drugs under medical supervision.

Christian is a billionaire biotech investor and one of the loudest voices advocating for the future of human performance and psychedelic medicine. In this episode, we get into ALL of it:
- How one dinner conversation in 2014 completely changed his life — and...


From #1 Ranked Fighter in the World to Flat Lining in a Hospital: Mark Kerr
#79
05/27/2026

The Rock played this man in a major motion picture — and after watching this episode, you'll understand why.

Mark Kerr is a Division I National Champion, 2x ADCC Champion, and 2x UFC Heavyweight Champion who helped define what it meant to be a professional mixed martial artist before anyone even knew what that looked like. But behind the accolades was a story most people never saw coming.

In this raw and unforgettable episode, Mark sits down with us to talk about:

What it felt like when Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson was cast to play hi...


He Spent 13 Years Building the Brand You Just Discovered - Sam Nebel, Co-Founder of Goodwipes
#78
05/20/2026

What does it actually take to build a consumer brand from scratch — bootstrapped, broke, and selling something nobody wanted to talk about?

On this week's episode, Sam Nebel, Co-Founder of Goodwipes, sits down with Kenny to share the unfiltered 13-year journey of turning a Ziploc bag full of wipes at Florida State tailgates into the fastest-growing flushable wipe brand in the country, now on shelves at Walmart, Target, and Kroger.


In this episode:

Why Sam turned down a $1M acquisition offer (when they were already doing $1M+ in sales)The credit card hacks, me...


He Won $5 MILLION on MrBeast's Beast Games — Here's What Tyler Lucas Did Next
#77
05/13/2026

To Watch The Show: https://www.youtube.com/@strongnewyork
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What do you do when MrBeast hands you a $5,000,000 check?

This week on Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci sits down with Tyler Lucas, the winner of Beast Games Season 2, an active-duty Air Force pilot, former Penn State football player, and Titan Games finalist. Tyler shares the unfiltered story behind one of the largest cash prizes in entertainment history, what MrBeast is actually...


Against All Odds: Steve White's Journey of Resilience and Recovery
#76
05/06/2026

On this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci sits down with Steve White—founder of Brae 100, HomeTeams, and The Pacific Clinic—to share a story of resilience that redefines what recovery can look like.


After years of football-related head trauma, Steve faced severe neurological decline, including seizures, cognitive loss, lupus, and APS. Told his condition would only worsen, everything changed when a mentor challenged him to “fight”—sparking a shift from passive treatment to radical personal responsibility.


At 64, Steve began training for extreme physical goals while rebuilding his brain and body t...


Dr. Pat Davidson on Bodybuilding, PEDs, SARMs, Training, and Health
#75
04/29/2026

This week, Kenny Santucci sits down with NYC based strength and conditioning coach, Dr. Pat Davidson for a candid conversation about his transformation from a “soft 235” to bodybuilding shape through renewed training, nutrition, and eventually PED use. They break down performance-enhancing drugs, SARMs, bloodwork, testosterone, and the importance of coaching—while also addressing the real health risks tied to lifestyle, cardiovascular health, and misuse.

The episode also covers supplements that actually matter, genetics, training fundamentals, fasting, mental health, and Dr. Pat’s pursuit of his bodybuilding pro card. A raw, honest discussion on fitness, performance, and longevity.

00...


Noah Syndergaard on New York, Tommy John Rehab, Biohacking, and Life After Baseball
#74
04/22/2026

This week, Kenny Santui sits down with former MLB pitcher Noah Syndergaard—better known as “Thor”—for a candid conversation on the Strong New York podcast. From his early days as a quiet kid in Texas to becoming a breakout star with the New York Mets, Syndergaard reflects on his journey through the majors, including being drafted by the Blue Jays in 2010, his pivotal trade in the R.A. Dickey deal, and his highly anticipated rookie debut in 2015.

He opens up about life in New York City, the mindset behind maintaining peak physical performance, and what it really t...


Peptides, Hormones and Longevity with Ashley Madsen
#73
04/15/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny sits down with Ashley Madsen, a double board-certified clinician and expert in functional medicine, longevity, and performance optimization. Trained at Stanford, the Institute for Functional Medicine, and the American Board of Anti-Aging Medicine, Ashley specializes in helping people extend their healthspan through personalized, science-backed care.


They unpack peptides and GLP-1s—what works, what’s risky, and why personalization and proper sourcing matter—along with the importance of addressing foundational health first. The conversation also explores obesity, long-term GLP-1 use, and the balance between lifespan and healthspan.

A...


Astaxanthin Explained: Longevity, Heart Health & Bioavailability with Dave Watumull
#72
04/08/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci interviews David Watumull, co-founder and CEO of AX3 Life, a longevity company focused on helping people perform at their best for longer. Dave explains the science behind inflammaging — chronic inflammation linked to aging — and how AX3’s bio-pure astaxanthin is designed to address it at the source.


Kenny and Dave discuss why astaxanthin is emerging as a foundational daily nutrient for longevity, supporting cognition, heart health, endurance, recovery, and skin and eye health. Dave also breaks down how it works in the body, the growth of res...


Comedian, Andrea Lopez on Humor and Health
#71
04/01/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci is joined by comedian, impressionist, actress, and media host Andrea Lopez. Andrea gained national recognition as a semi-finalist on NBC’s Bring The Funny and has built a following of over 700K fans, with her viral Kourtney Kardashian TikTok surpassing 15 million views. She also co-hosts the Big Wigs Podcast.

Kenny and Andrea discuss why more comedians are turning to fitness to manage anxiety, depression, and the mental grind of stand-up, as well as the importance of real community and connection in a post-pandemic world. Andrea also shares ho...


The Evolution of Daria Berenato- Athlete, Wrestler, Trailblazer
#70
03/25/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci is joined by Daria Berenato — actress, former WWE Champion, MMA fighter, and media host. After a groundbreaking WWE career that included championship success and leadership roles as Raw and SmackDown General Manager, Daria returned to wrestling television with TNA Wrestling on AMC as authority figure The S.U.I.T., Daria Rae. She also serves as an executive partner and commentator with Invicta FC and co-hosts the podcast Unwrapped.


Kenny and Daria discuss her journey from a competitive multi-sport athlete in South Jersey to discovering MM...


The Evolution of Daria Berenato- Athlete, Wrestler, Trailblazer
#70
03/25/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci is joined by Daria Berenato — actress, former WWE Champion, MMA fighter, and media host. After a groundbreaking WWE career that included championship success and leadership roles as Raw and SmackDown General Manager, Daria returned to wrestling television with TNA Wrestling on AMC as authority figure The S.U.I.T., Daria Rae. She also serves as an executive partner and commentator with Invicta FC and co-hosts the podcast Unwrapped.


Kenny and Daria discuss her journey from a competitive multi-sport athlete in South Jersey to discovering MM...


Health with Hunter: Sustainable Fat Loss, Real Food Swaps, and Building Muscle
#69
03/18/2026

On this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci sits down with NYC-based health coach Hunter Stoler (@healthwithhunter) to unpack why so many people struggle with fitness—often falling into the trap of extremes instead of committing to small, sustainable habits.

Hunter opens up about his personal turning point after reaching 227 lbs in college, and the Thanksgiving moment that pushed him to make a lasting change. By mastering the fundamentals—like maintaining a calorie deficit, improving nutrition, and staying consistent—he transformed not just his body, but his energy levels and even healed years of cystic...


Dr. Jonathan Levine on Breathing, Sleep, Sugar & Why Oral Health Is a Pillar of Longevity
#68
03/11/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny sits down with Dr. Jonathan Levine, the visionary founder of Smile House—a groundbreaking, multi-specialty destination focused on dental longevity and aesthetics.

Their conversation explores the powerful connection between oral health and overall wellness, from breathing and sleep to inflammation and disease prevention. Dr. Levine explains how factors like jaw structure, nasal breathing, and early childhood development—including breastfeeding vs. bottle feeding—can influence airway health, deep sleep, and long-term disease risk. He also shares why dentistry has historically been slow to adopt a more integrated, whole-body approach.

D...


Podiatrist Dr. Emily Splichal on Foot Nerves, Toe Spacers, and Why Shoes Affect Your Whole Body
#67
03/04/2026

In January, The Strong New York Podcast hit the road at the LA Fit Expo, where Kenny connected with Dr. Emily Splichal — functional podiatrist, human movement specialist, and founder of Naboso, a company creating sensory-based tools designed to stimulate the nerves in the feet and enhance movement and performance. Together, they unpack why foot health is foundational to strength, stability, and long-term resilience.

Dr. Splichal breaks down the shift from minimal to maximal footwear, addresses lingering misconceptions from the barefoot running era, and explains why shoe selection should be categorical based on the specific activity. She challenges th...


Redefining Nutrition and Fitness with Mark Sisson
#66
02/25/2026

In this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny takes the show on the road to the LA Fit Expo to sit down with health and wellness legend Mark Sisson.

Mark—New York Times bestselling author, former elite endurance athlete, and founder of Primal Kitchen—shares how injuries from running led him to rethink fitness, nutrition, and footwear, ultimately creating the Primal Blueprint and Primal Kitchen. He breaks down his simple framework for long-term health (diet, walking, lifting, sprinting, and sleep), explains why metabolic flexibility matters, and challenges mainstream nutrition “science.”

We also dive into ent...


From Prison to Protein with Owen Hanson
#65
02/18/2026

This week, Kenny sits down with Owen Hanson, founder of California Ice Protein, to share a story that defies expectations.


Owen’s journey was anything but traditional. After college, he went from athlete to building an international illegal gambling and drug trafficking operation that spanned continents—before watching it all collapse. Federal prison stripped away the power and the illusion, forcing him to confront every mistake and rebuild from the ground up.

In this episode, Owen opens up about his path from college sports to working with a major Mexican cartel, his time behind bars...


Bonus Episode: Biohack Beginnings with Love and Legend Lolli
#64
02/15/2026

On this special bonus episode of The Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci welcomes his youngest guests ever—siblings Love (9) and Legend (7), kids of Anthony and TereZa Lolli from Biohack Yourself Media.

They talk interviewing celebrities, building acting careers, and using their earnings to buy their first real estate property in Florida.

The conversation touches on homeschooling, packed schedules, confidence, handling haters, and being the “lead actor” of your own life—plus their morning biohacking routines, favorite workouts, and what’s next, including blue-light–blocking glasses and a push-up challenge.


00:00 Welcome to t...


Biohack Your Life with Anthony and TereZa Lolli
#63
02/11/2026

This week, Kenny is joined by two powerhouse guests: Anthony and TereZa Lolli, the visionaries behind Biohack Yourself. As leaders in the biohacking and wellness space, they’ve built a groundbreaking omnimedia platform dedicated to amplifying the voices of doctors, pioneers, inventors, and innovators reshaping health, longevity, and human potential worldwide.

In this episode, Anthony and TereZa share their deeply personal transformation from obesity to becoming passionate advocates for fitness, biohacking, and intentional living. They dive into their acclaimed documentaries, the power of tech-free wellness, and their unconventional, forward-thinking approach to homeschooling and raising conscious, resilient children.

...


Sweet Success with Addison LaBonte
#62
02/04/2026

This week on the Strong New York Podcast, Kenny Santucci sits down with Addison LaBonte, founder of Sweet Addison’s—a nationwide gluten-free, dairy-free bakery redefining what “better-for-you” desserts can be.

After going from a Division I college soccer player to struggling through short runs in her early 20s, Addison was diagnosed with Compartment Syndrome and told her options were invasive surgery or quitting altogether. Instead, she overhauled her diet, eliminated gluten, and experienced a complete turnaround in her health—sparking the idea that would later become Sweet Addison’s.

In this episode, Kenny and Addison dive...


Sleep, Recovery and Peak Performance with Todd Anderson
#61
01/28/2026

In this episode of The Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci sits down with former NFL player and Dream Recovery founder Todd Anderson for a conversation on performance, recovery, and the future of wellness.

Todd shares his journey from professional football to entrepreneurship, what sparked his deep dive into sleep science, and why recovery is the missing link for peak performance—both in and out of the gym. They also explore his experiences with extreme endurance events, the emotional IVF journey with his wife, and how innovative tools like weighted blankets can transform sleep and overall he...


Boundaries, Healing and Real Connection with Sabrina Zohar
#60
01/21/2026

In this episode of the Strong New York Podcast, host Kenny Santucci sits down with dating and relationship expert Sabrina Zohar for an honest, no-filter conversation about love, boundaries, and personal growth in today’s world.


Together, they break down what dating looks like in 2026, how social media is shaping modern relationships, and why self-awareness is the foundation for healthier connections. Kenny and Sabrina dive into the importance of setting boundaries, unpacking personal trauma, and making intentional choices, not just in dating, but in life.

Whether you’re navigating the dating scene, healing past patt...