The Cabrera Lab Podcast
Join Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera from Cornell University as they inspire you to approach life's challenges with a fresh perspective. Witness their use of GOAT-level thinking to enhance your problem-solving skills. Discover new possibilities, approaches, and solutions you never knew existed. Elevate your thinking and get better every day with their entertaining guidance.
Episode #128: What I Wish I Knew as a Neurodivergent Kid
In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore neurodivergence through a systems thinking lens.
Derek reflects on what it means to understand your own mind, why neurodivergence itself is not the problem, and how friction often comes from living inside systems designed around the neurotypical norm. They discuss structure, self-knowledge, masking, passive aggression, focus, hyperfocus, and why learning how your brain works can be a powerful “cheat code” for navigating school, work, relationships, and life.
The conversation also explores what neurodivergent kids need to hear early: that they are different, not defe...
#127: How to Make Invisible Thinking Visible
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explain the power of OOTing: object-oriented thinking.
They explore why getting ideas out of your head and into visible, movable objects—whether blocks, drawings, sticky notes, whiteboards, or even visual objects in your mind—can dramatically improve thinking, communication, and understanding. By making mental models visible, OOTing helps people stop conflating parts with wholes, see relationships more clearly, and build shared meaning with others.
The conversation also breaks down why or...
#126: How to Stop Misalignment Before It Starts
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University break down one of the simplest and most powerful systems thinking tools: the Is/Is Not List.
They explain why this move is not just about making a list, but about building a strong distinction—one that clarifies what something fundamentally is, what it is not, and where the boundary really belongs. From leadership and management to safety, AI, systems thinking, and even the classic “is a hot dog a sandwich?” debate...
#125: Stop Holding Everything in Your Head
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore one of the simplest but most powerful thinking tools we use every day: lists.
They break down why lists are more than just a way to remember tasks—they are a systems thinking tool that helps us distinguish what matters, break overwhelming wholes into manageable parts, and create perspective on what actually needs to get done. From moving, parenting, schoolwork, and sleepless nights to shared family lists and the dopamine hit...
#124: How to Take Feedback Without Getting Defensive
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore what happens when someone gives you difficult feedback—and why your first reaction may not be the most useful one.
Starting with a question about being perceived as “argumentative,” they unpack the difference between reacting and understanding, how our internal voice can interfere with genuine listening, and why self-awareness is one of the most powerful skills we can develop. The conversation dives into metacognition, emotional reactions, feedback, defensive thinking, and the impo...
#123: Think It Through: Why Smart Teams Still Don’t Work Together
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University answer a common leadership question: why do talented people often struggle to work together as a team?
They explore the difference between a group and a true team, showing how friction, duplicate effort, competing priorities, and communication breakdowns often stem from one root cause: misaligned mental models. Using systems thinking and DSRP, they break down how people can use the same words, work on the same problem, and still be operating fr...
#122: What Great Leaders Understand About Culture
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore a powerful idea: culture may be the single greatest advantage an organization can create—and most leaders fundamentally misunderstand how it works.
Starting with an unexpected question about marketing, they unpack why changing minds—not promoting products—is the real work behind both marketing and leadership. They explore how organizational culture emerges whether you shape it or not, why shared mental models matter more than policies or processes, and how leaders...
#121: Why “I’m Trying” Is Often a Cop-Out
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore the difference between “trying” and “doing”—and why that distinction matters more than most people think.
They unpack how words like “trying” or “I didn’t mean to” can function as subtle ways of avoiding reality, ownership, and feedback. Through examples from parenting, communication, goals, and relationships, they show how systems thinking helps us see the mental models underneath our language and behavior.
The conversation also dives into listening, integrity...
#120: You’re Already Thinking — Just Badly
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle three common misconceptions that stop people from becoming systems thinkers.
They explore the difference between unconsciously using DSRP patterns and purposefully applying them with awareness, why more information does not automatically lead to better understanding, and how hidden “externalities” distort the way we make decisions. Through examples ranging from neuromarketing and AI to education, relationships, and organizational leadership, they show how people often miss the underlying structure and patterns driving outcom...
#119: You’re Not Responsible for Everyone’s Feelings
In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore one of the most difficult systems thinking challenges in relationships: understanding responsibility for our emotions.
They unpack the dynamic between action and reaction, why emotional regulation creates agency and empowerment, and how faulty mental models can lead people to either take responsibility for everyone else’s feelings—or none of their own. Through ideas like “buttons,” emotional wounds, constructive vs. destructive conflict, and the Love Reality Loop, they show how awareness, communication, and metacognition transform the way we navigate relationships.
They also explore why feed...
#118: How to Think Clearly in a Crisis
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore how to think through moments of crisis using systems thinking.
They break down a critical first step—questioning whether something is truly a crisis or a product of inflated thinking—and show how unchecked mental models and worst-case assumptions can create unnecessary stress. Using the DSRP framework, they walk through how to set boundaries, break a crisis into parts, examine relationships, and take multiple perspectives to regain clarity and control.
#117: The Psychology of Motivation, Emotion, and Thought
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University break down a powerful systems thinking model for understanding human behavior: the dynamic relationship between cognition (thinking), emotion (feeling), motivation (conation), and embodiment.
They explore how these elements constantly interact in feedback loops—how thoughts shape emotions, how motivations frame what we see, and how emotional or motivational “debt” can quietly constrain our ability to think clearly. They also dive into one of the most overlooked drivers of behavior: motivation, and how...
#116: Why Better Thinking Makes You a Better Person
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore the deeper layer of systems thinking that most people miss: its connection to ethics, empathy, and human behavior.
They break down how the four patterns of DSRP—distinctions, systems, relationships, and perspectives—shape the way we include or exclude others, assign responsibility, regulate emotions, and take perspective. From the idea of the “nerf knife” to the importance of a simple pause before reacting, they show how better thinking doesn’t just improve...
#115: How to Learn When Words Don’t Work for You
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore how systems thinking can transform the way we learn—especially for people who struggle with traditional, language-based learning.
They break down why reading alone doesn’t lead to understanding, and how organizing information structurally—through visual, tactile, and object-oriented thinking—can dramatically improve comprehension, memory, and communication. From mapping ideas in the margins of books to building mental models you can “see” and manipulate, they show how shifting from words to structure u...
Episode #114: How to Raise Better Thinkers
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore a fundamental systems thinking challenge: the tendency to confuse our mental models with reality itself.
They unpack how the brain constructs meaning, why we often blend what we think with what actually exists, and how this conflation leads to misunderstanding, poor decisions, and unnecessary conflict. Through systems thinking principles, they show how separating reality from our interpretations creates clarity, improves judgment, and strengthens our ability to navigate complex situations.
#113: Why Nothing in Your Life Is Changing
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore a powerful systems thinking principle: the purpose of a system is what it does—not what it was intended to do.
They break down the critical difference between aspirational outcomes and actual outcomes, and why so many organizations, policies, and personal habits consistently produce results that don’t match their goals. Through real-world examples—from corporate incentives to classrooms to everyday behaviors—they show how system structure determines behavior...
#112: Think It Through: How to Break Big Changes Into Manageable Parts
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore how to navigate big life changes without getting overwhelmed. Whether it’s moving, getting married, having a baby, sending a child to college, or making a major career shift, they break down why these transitions can feel so heavy—and how systems thinking can help.
They unpack how we often conflate big change into one giant mental cloud, why the future picture in our heads can make things...
#111: Stress Is a Systems Problem (Not Just an Emotional One)
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack a powerful idea: stress is not just something that happens to you—it’s a reaction to the mental model you’re using to interpret what’s happening.
They explore how stress grows when we assume we can’t handle a situation, how anxiety comes from projecting those assumptions into the future, and why so much overwhelm is caused by conflating many separate concerns into one crushing mental knot. The conversation...
#110: How to Train Your Brain to Think Systemically
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University answer a listener question: what are the biggest things that prevent someone from becoming a systems thinker?
They break down three major barriers—reality bias, confirmation bias, and the lack of deliberate practice in how we organize information. The conversation explores how mental models shape everything we see, why people often confuse their mental model with reality, and how learning the structural “moves” of thinking can dramatically improve decision-making and problem solving...
#109: Think It Through: When Reality Isn’t What You Want It to Be
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle a hard question: what do you do when reality is showing you something you don’t want to believe?
They break down what “love reality” actually means (it’s not about enjoying it), why most “sudden” crises are built one tiny decision at a time, and how fear, denial, and catastrophizing can trap you in a mental model that makes things worse. From being stuck on the side of a mountain...
#108: Stop Believing Frameworks That Haven’t Been Tested
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack one of the most overlooked distinctions in science—and in life: the difference between studying whether something exists and studying its effect.
Before you measure outcomes, before you test benefits, before you publish results, there’s a deeper question that most fields skip entirely: does the thing you’re talking about even exist in the way you claim it does?
From corporate culture to SWOT analyses to systems thinking itself...
#107: Love Is a Behavior, Not a Feeling
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack a radical but deeply practical idea: love is not a feeling — it’s a behavior.
While most of us are taught to think of love as romance, chemistry, or intense emotion, the Cabreras argue that those experiences are often hormonal surges or evolutionary drives mistaken for something deeper. Real love, they explain, is built through repeated micro-decisions — small, consistent behaviors that accumulate over time into something solid, secure, and trustworthy.
They...
#106: Passive-Aggression Isn’t Passive—It’s Just Dishonest
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack one of the most uncomfortable—but important—distinctions in human behavior: the difference between being passive-aggressive and being direct.
They challenge the common belief that passive aggression is somehow “nicer” or less harmful than open aggression, and explain why passive-aggressive behavior is actually a form of dishonest aggression—one that hides intent, creates confusion, and slowly erodes trust. Through everyday examples, cultural patterns, and systems thinking concepts like externalities, identity, an...
#105: Think It Through: Helping Others See What They’re Missing
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle a deceptively hard question: what do you do when someone is overwhelmed, talking a mile a minute, and stuck inside their own thoughts and emotions?
Rather than offering advice or arguing content, they show how to slow a conversation down and help someone actually see their mental model. Using a realistic leadership example about a frustrated manager whose team isn’t meeting KPIs, they walk step-by-step thro...
#104: It’s Not Too Much Information—It’s Too Little Organization
In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle a problem nearly everyone feels but few can name: constant overwhelm in a world flooded with information. From social media and news to work demands and family pressures, it feels like there’s simply too much coming at us all the time.
But the real problem isn’t information overload—it’s organization overload. The Cabreras explain why more information doesn’t make us smarter, more informed, or more grounded, and why burnout is often a signal that we’re failing to organize information into meaning. Dra...
#103: Think It Through: When You Know What to Do—but Don’t Do It
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle one of the most frustrating human experiences: knowing exactly what you should do—and doing the opposite anyway.
Is this a motivation problem, a discipline problem, or something deeper? Using systems thinking and real-world examples like smoking, exercising, speaking up in meetings, and setting boundaries, they reveal the real issue: your behavior is faithfully executing a mental model you haven’t fully seen yet.
They e...
#102: Mental Fitness Explained: Why Intelligence Is More Than IQ
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack a new research paper on mental fitness and challenge nearly everything we think we know about intelligence, burnout, and mental health.
Mental fitness, they explain, isn’t a trait, a feeling, or a mindset—it’s a complex adaptive system made up of four interdependent dimensions: cognitive, emotional, motivational, and physical. When any one of these dimensions is neglected, we accumulate hidden “debt” that eventually shuts down our ability to adapt, th...
#101: Think It Through: The Negative Inner Voice That’s Holding You Back
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore a struggle many people quietly live with every day: a negative inner voice that puts you down, limits your confidence, and distorts what you believe about yourself.
They explain how this voice often isn’t truly “yours,” but something you’ve adopted over time—sometimes from school, authority figures, or traumatic experiences. Drawing on systems thinking, metacognition, and identity–other dynamics, they walk through a practical process of lea...
#100: The Top 10 Systems Thinking Lessons from 100 Episodes
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In this special milestone episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University celebrate the 100th episode of the Cabrera Lab Podcast by doing something big: ranking the top 10 themes that have emerged across the entire show.
From simple rules creating complex results to embracing both-and thinking, from culture as shared mental models to seeing webs of causality instead of root causes, they revisit the ideas that show up again and again—because they matter. These aren’t just abstract concepts; they’r...
Episode #99: How to Reflect the Right Way Using Systems Thinking
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack what reflection actually is—and why most people misunderstand it. Reflection isn’t a feeling, a yearly ritual, or a vague act of looking back. It’s a structural process rooted in how the mind organizes information.
Using systems thinking and DSRP, they explain why you don’t learn by doing—you learn by reflecting on experience, and only when that reflection is structured. They show how behaviors, emotions, and decision...
#98: Think It Through: Why Having the “Perfect Holiday” Is the Fastest Way to Ruin It
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In this holiday edition of Think It Through, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle one of the most common—and least talked about—seasonal struggles: why fully capable adults suddenly feel like children again the moment they walk into their childhood home.
They break down how identity shifts based on who we’re with, why old family dynamics snap back into place, and how tiny reactions can spiral into full-blown holiday stress. Using systems thinking tools like the Identity...
#97: What Can Systems Thinkers Do That Others Can’t?
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle a deceptively simple question they were asked at a social event: “What can you do that other people can’t do if you’re a systems thinker?”
Their answer is grounded in research, not hype. They break down the stunning cognitive law showing that most people rely on only 20% of the mental structures reality is made of, leaving 75% of the world unseen, unprocessed, and un-understood. Using the science of DSRP, the...
#96: Think It Through: The Hidden Cost of Always Doing What You’re Told
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University break down a problem facing kids, college students, and professionals alike: what do you do when you do exceptional work—but the system only rewards strict compliance?
Using a real classroom story, workplace examples, and a surprisingly accurate metaphor involving “shit sliders,” they unpack how tiny acts of compliance—made over and over again—build up delayed psychological costs that shape your identity, agency, and long-term trajectory.
The...
#95: Think It Through: Teaching Your Kids to Love Reality
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In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle a listener’s real-life parenting dilemma: a 10-year-old boy terrified of monsters lurking in his house. What begins as a bedtime fear unfolds into a profound lesson on mental models, evidence, and how we teach kids to tell what’s real from what’s imagined.
Through the lens of systems thinking, the Cabreras show how fears—childhood or adult—emerge from the mental models we create about the world, and how th...
#94: Fast. Right. Adaptive. The Power of Practicing Is/Is Not List
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University explore one of the simplest—but most profound—thinking skills: drawing the boundary between what something is and what it is not.
They unpack how this move, called Is/Is Not List, sits at the core of systems thinking and shows up in everything from team communication to personal growth. From construct validity in science to everyday misunderstandings, the Cabreras explain why most confusion, conflict, and wasted effort come from failing to def...
#93: O-Based Education: How to Build Smarter, Freer, More Adaptive Humans
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In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University revisit two of their most powerful ideas about the future of education: “We teach humans, not subjects,” and “What if we taught thinking through content, not content through thinking?”
They explain how O-based education—rooted in the DSRP patterns of thought and the Love Reality Loop—can transform learning by putting the focus on how students think, not just what they know. Instead of c...
#92: Think It Through: The Feedback You Don’t Want Is the Feedback You Need
In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University unpack one of life’s most universal challenges: how to take feedback that clashes with your self-image. What starts as a simple question—“How do I handle feedback that hurts?”—turns into a deep exploration of identity, ego, and growth.
They reveal how most people unconsciously build mental “castle walls” around their self-concept, blocking feedback that could help them evolve. Through humor, real-world examples, and systems thinking tools like part–whole, is/is not, and boundaries, they show how to create a semi-permeable mind—one that pr...
#91: From Deming to Donella: Rating the Top Systems Thinking Quotes
In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University take a rapid-fire tour through some of the most famous systems thinking quotes from legends like Donella Meadows, Peter Senge, Russell Ackoff, W. Edwards Deming, and even the Buddha.
Laura reads each quote, and Derek rates them 1–10 on validity, reliability, and usefulness—revealing which ideas stand up to science and which ones fall apart under scrutiny. From “Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets” (spoiler: a 10) to “Reality is made up of circles, but we see straight lines” (not so much), this episode sepa...
#90: Think it Through: Stop Arguing Perspectives, Start Solving Systems
In this Think It Through episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University tackle two everyday problems that reveal the hidden power of systems thinking. They start by breaking down why theory and practice are never truly separate, showing how real solutions emerge when people think structurally—whether they’re leading teams or navigating family life.
Using a 7% market growth challenge as a case study, they introduce a powerful move called P Gen S Drop P—a simple way to align marketing, sales, and operations around a shared mental model instead of competing perspectives. Then, they apply...
#89: Think It Through: Boundaries, Guilt, and Getting Your Time Back
In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University help a listener untangle a familiar problem: saying yes to everything and ending up exhausted, resentful, and burned out.
They diagram the hidden mental model behind overcommitment—a self-made loop of guilt, fear, and misplaced responsibility—and show how systems thinking can break it. You’ll learn how to set real boundaries without guilt, stop assuming what others think of you, and reclaim your time and energy.
From the “2x4 Guy” (you’ll get it) to emotional intelligence and the Rar Quad, this episode offers pract...
