The REFINE Network

Your salon’s schedule influences more than who works when. It shapes your team’s connection, the support new stylists receive, and your capacity to grow. In this episode, we explore how scheduling new talent exclusively on nights and weekends can create a disconnected team—and why continued overlap with educators and experienced stylists matters. Plus, we break down double shifting, making better use of your chairs, and why maximizing your current space should come before opening another location.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Acad...

Raising prices affects more than your service menu. Emily Richardson of Bella Trio joins Christopher to share how she prepared her team for new pricing through SCALE. From transparent conversations to personal handwritten notes, Emily explains how she helped her staff feel supported and confident in their value. They also explore why small price increases weren’t enough and what became clear when she looked deeper into the numbers.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching

🎓 Explore The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy

📊 Discove...

Your salon has a level system, but some of your strongest stylists are stuck. Is the problem their performance, or are the requirements no longer realistic?

In this episode, Evan and Christopher look at what happens when a level system doesn’t keep up with changes in services, pricing, and the way stylists build their careers. They discuss why a high-performing artist might struggle to meet a retail target even while delivering strong service and retaining clients, and how holding that artist at the same level can limit both their earning potential and the salon’s growth.

If you keep hiring the same type of person and getting the same disappointing result, it may be time to take a closer look at your process. In this episode, we’re breaking down how your mindset, interview questions, onboarding, and decision-makers all influence who joins your team. We also explore why seeing potential in someone isn’t always the same as identifying the right fit.

You’ll learn how to hire around your core values, recognize qualities like humility, drive, kindness, and coachability, and protect your culture when someone isn’t the right fit. The wrong hire can...

Your color bar could be costing your salon more than you think.

In this episode, we sit down with leaders from L’ANZA and Vish to break down what’s really happening behind the color bar—from product waste and excess inventory to services that are performed but never actually charged for.

We talk about how understanding your true cost per application can uncover hidden profit, why more inventory doesn’t necessarily mean better results, and how better systems create accountability without putting the burden on your team or your guests.

You’ll also hear...

What happens when you intentionally invest in developing talent from the very beginning?

In this episode, you’ll hear from Chantal and Lily of ECLIPS Salon about the power of salon apprenticeship from both sides of the experience. Chantal shares what they’ve learned from 15 years of developing apprentices, while Lily gives you a look at what it’s like to learn, grow, and build confidence within the program today.

They dive into how apprenticeship can shape technical skills, salon culture, client relationships, and the confidence someone carries into their career. You’ll also hear why ECLI...

If everyone on your team agrees with you, it might be time to ask a different question. The best leaders aren't surrounded by "yes people." They're surrounded by people who care enough to challenge ideas, ask hard questions, and protect the vision—even when it's uncomfortable. In this episode, we talk about why healthy disagreement is one of the greatest assets your business can have, how to create a culture where your team feels safe speaking up, and why inviting feedback makes you a stronger leader. You'll learn: Why "yes people" can quietly hurt your business How to encourage ho...

Building a successful salon doesn't always mean you're charging the right prices.

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Michelle Rouser of 40 Volume Salon to unpack what happened after taking her team through REFINE's SCALE program. Together, they discuss the importance of understanding your numbers, creating pricing strategies backed by data instead of assumptions, and involving your leadership team in major business decisions.

They also explore how transparency builds trust, why team buy-in matters, and how strong systems help salons grow with confidence instead of guesswork.

Whether you're questioning your pricing, leading a...

One of the hardest leadership moments you'll face as a salon owner is when an employee gives notice and asks to stay for a few more weeks.

Do you let them finish out their schedule?
Do you ask them to leave immediately?
How do you protect your team, your culture, and your business while still treating people with respect?

In this episode, Christopher and Evan discuss the factors every leader should consider before making that decision. They cover employee posture, relational equity, setting clear boundaries, protecting the team that's staying, and why reacting...

What helps some stylists grow faster than others?

It's not just technical skill.

In this conversation from ABS Chicago, Ruthie and Alondra of Silver Salon share the mindset shifts that have shaped their careers in just two years behind the chair.

They talk about building a strong foundation before chasing every new opportunity, creating unforgettable client experiences, receiving feedback without becoming defensive, and why self-awareness might be one of the most important skills a stylist can develop.

Whether you're new behind the chair or years into your career, this episode is...

In this episode, Erin Silver shares what happened when she went through SCALE for a second time and why the experience landed differently than it did the first time.

Erin opens up about stepping fully into her role as an owner, uncovering financial realities that were limiting her salon's growth, and using data to create greater clarity and buy-in across her team. The conversation explores pricing, profitability, leadership development, delegation, and the importance of moving beyond a stylist mindset to lead a business effectively.

Erin also shares how investing in her own growth as a...

What does it actually feel like to go through a major salon pricing shift?

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Megan from Mercer Hair Studio to talk about her experience going through SCALE and the emotional reality of raising prices as a stylist.

From anxiety and overthinking to confidence and clarity, Megan shares what it looked like to navigate pricing changes inside a growing salon, communicate those changes to clients, and confront the internal fear of wondering if she was truly “worth” more.

The conversation dives into:
- The mindset challenges behi...

What actually happens when you raise your salon prices?

In this episode, Crystal Mercer joins the podcast to talk about leadership, culture, pricing psychology, and building a salon team that can truly thrive.

The conversation dives into the emotional side of price increases, why so many owners stay stuck playing small, and how fear around money impacts both leaders and stylists. Crystal also shares how she built a culture centered around honesty, accountability, and helping team members create real careers—not just jobs.

From hiring with intention to giving teams grace during change, th...

What do you do when a stylist keeps getting redos?

It’s easy to jump to firing.
But most of the time, that’s not actually the solution.

In this episode, we break down what’s really going on when clients keep coming back for adjustments. From rushed consultations to skipping steps, to pride getting in the way of growth.

We talk through how to identify whether it’s a skill issue, a process issue, or a mindset issue… and how to lead that conversation in a way that actually helps someone improve.<...

If you’ve been hearing us talk about SCALE and wondering what it actually is—this episode is your inside look.

We break down where SCALE started, how it’s evolved, and what it’s becoming as we move into a more streamlined, software-driven experience.

We also talk through:

Why so many salon owners feel disconnected from their numbers
What’s typically happening behind the scenes in growing salons
How SCALE supports owners in gaining clarity and making better decisions
Real feedback and results from salon owners currently going through it

...

Great service is expected.
Hospitality is what makes you unforgettable.

In this episode, we break down what “unreasonable hospitality” actually means for salon owners — and why it may be the single greatest competitive advantage you have.

We talk about:
- The difference between service and hospitality
- The problem with “good enough”
- Why connection always comes before systems
- How small, thoughtful gestures create lifelong clients
- How to systematize hospitality so it becomes culture — not coincidence

If you care about retention, leadership, and building something that feels d...

Most stylists aren’t lacking talent.
They’re lacking structure.

In this episode, we sit down with Gareth to talk about Classic Cutting — the foundational system that has guided every haircut he’s done for over 30 years.

We unpack:
• Why so many stylists feel confident with color but uncertain with cutting
• The gap between cosmetology school and advanced education
• Why “advanced” classes don’t work without fundamentals
• How structure creates creative freedom
• The difference between copying techniques and understanding why they work

This isn’t about replacing other cutting methods.
...

We sat down with a simple question:

What used to feel like success… that no longer does?

What started as an icebreaker turned into a real conversation about ego, leadership, humility, and what actually defines success.

Because at some point, success stops being about the car, the title, or the applause…
and starts being about legacy, culture, and how you show up for the people around you.

In this episode, we unpack:

• Why chasing the newest thing doesn’t equal success
• The difference between confidence and ego
• How...

We sit down with Cynthia and Olga to talk about what actually keeps a leadership team together — not in theory, but in real life.

After working side by side for over 16 years, they share what’s made their partnership last: trust, autonomy, and being willing to have the hard conversations most leaders avoid.

We get into how their roles evolved, how respect and clear lanes reduce friction, and why separating feelings from facts is essential when you’re leading creative people. From money conversations and performance expectations to retention, communication systems, and navigating uncomfortable moments with c...

In this episode, we sit down with Crystal Mercer for an honest conversation about identity, integrity, and what it really means to lead in the salon industry.

Crystal shares her perspective on staying true to who you are as a leader, why trying to perform or shape-shift for others leads to burnout, and how clarity builds trust with both teams and clients. We talk about her journey from teenage motherhood to salon ownership, the role coaching has played in her growth, and why systems matter—not just for profit, but for protecting people and creating longevity.

...

In this episode, Evan sits down with Siobhan McCaffrey, a longtime leader at Phorest, to talk about the evolution of salon technology and what’s coming next for the industry.

Siobhan shares her journey from Ireland to Philadelphia, where she helped launch Phorest’s North American expansion. They dive into the differences between the U.S. and European salon markets, what it was like onboarding massive salon groups in the early days, and how customer feedback directly shapes Phorest’s development roadmap.

They explore Phorest’s newest features — including enhanced goal setting, forecasting, lead management, and upcomi...

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Joanne to talk about what it really takes for a salon to grow through systems—not guesswork. From resetting her front desk, to grounding her service providers, to bringing an associate through The Artist Academy, Joanne shares the real-time shifts she’s making to simplify onboarding and strengthen her team.

They dive into how clarity creates momentum, why training needs to be replicable (not dependent on one person), and how The Artist Academy freed up her educators while getting new artists earning faster. Joanne also talks about hiring consistently, staying ahea...

In this episode, Christopher sits down with Tim Howard, Co-Founder & Chief Innovation Officer of Vish, to dive into the technology that’s transforming the color bar — and the profitability of salons everywhere.

Tim shares how Vish was born from a simple but game-changing insight: salons were using their most expensive inventory with zero tracking. Together, they break down how color waste really happens, why consistent pricing matters more than ever, and how tech gives salons the boundaries, clarity, and confidence they’ve always needed.

They also explore leadership, adaptability, routine, and the power of understanding oursel...

Leadership isn’t just strategy — it’s resilience, intention, and the courage to keep showing up even when it’s hard.

In this episode, Christopher Hartl and Evan Silver sit down with Erin Jenkins, owner of Canvas Salon & Day Spa, live from L’ANZA’s Healing Center Forum in Cancún. Together, they unpack the reality of salon ownership: walkouts, rebuilding trust, strengthening culture, and leading with heart.

Erin shares the story of a major walkout that transformed the way she hires, communicates, and protects her vision, along with how her family supported her through one of the ha...

Building a thriving salon team takes more than talent — it takes systems, clarity, and shared language.
In this episode, Christopher and Erin dive deep into the evolution of the Refine Artist Academy — a digital education system designed to help salons scale education, strengthen culture, and free up time for owners and leaders.

They break down what it really looks like to move from chaos to consistency, how to calculate ROI on training, and why margin — not model — is what drives sustainable growth.
If you’ve ever wondered how to confidently hire, train, and retain stylists while elev...

At L’ANZA’s Healing Center Forum in Cancún, this conversation with Brandie Huether, Executive Vice President of Global Sales at L’ANZA, dives into what it means to lead with both heart and results.

Brandie shares her approach to leadership that balances strategy with humanity—building teams and partnerships through empathy, accountability, and joy. From her daily ice cream ritual to her “heart-centered, results-oriented” philosophy, she shows that success doesn’t have to come at the cost of authenticity.

We explore servant leadership in the smallest moments and why vulnerability and accountability are essential to re...

Erin takes over the mic and puts Christopher and Evan in the hot seat to talk about what truly sets The Refine Network apart. From the origins of Refine to the heart behind salon growth, leadership, and pricing — this episode pulls back the curtain on how two salon owners turned their shared experience into a movement that’s making growth simple. 🎧 In this episode: Erin flips the script and interviews the founders

In this episode, Evan and Chris dive into why high-performing stylists and service providers leave — and what leaders can do to keep them.

They unpack three core reasons top talent drifts away: leadership, goals, and purpose. From unlearning old habits and coaching differently to creating clear career paths and connecting your team to something bigger, this conversation will challenge how you think about leading in today’s salon industry.

Because when your people win, your company wins.

🔗 Resources & Links
📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/grow...

🎓 Join T...

Every leader is faced with opportunities—but not everyone takes them. In this episode, we unpack seven ways leaders can recognize, step into, and maximize the moments that move their life and business forward. From passion and initiative to resourcefulness, courage, and celebrating wins with your team, you’ll hear real stories and practical insights you can apply right away.

What’s the difference between venting and gossip — and why does it matter for your team? In this episode, we react to a fiery Dave Ramsey clip and explore how negativity shows up in salons, why it damages trust, and what leaders can do to protect their culture. From handling complaints with solutions to setting clear team standards, we unpack the ongoing work of maintaining a healthy environment where respect and growth can thrive.

🔗 Resources & Links

📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching:
https://www.therefinenetwork.com/grow

🎓 Join The Artist Academy:
https://www.therefine...

Ever feel like you’re just showing up, unlocking the doors, and going through the motions? In this episode, we talk about what to do when the passion fades — and how to reconnect with the purpose behind your work.

We break down the “ladder of the 4 P’s” (Paycheck → Passion → Philanthropy → Purpose) and share real stories from the salon floor and beyond about finding your magic again. Whether you’re a stylist, salon owner, or leader in any industry, this episode is about moving past burnout and back into inspired work.

🔗 Resources & Links:
✨ Growth Coaching: therefinenetw...

In this episode of The Refine Network Podcast, we sit down with Joe DiFalco, Senior Partnerships Manager at Phorest, one of the leading salon software platforms, to talk about where the industry is headed and how technology is shaping the future of salons.

From the rise of goal-setting features to the power of data-driven decision making, Joe shares insights from over 7 years at Phorest — including what salons are doing differently to grow, which trends are shaping the industry, and why the right tech can be the difference between staying stuck and scaling up.

If you’ve e...

What do people actually regret at the end of their lives—and how can leaders like you avoid the same fate?

In this episode, David Naim returns to share three powerful reflections from his late father’s legacy that every leader should hear: the importance of reflection, relationships, and risk. If you're building a business, a team, or a life with purpose, this one will hit home.

Whether you're in your 20s wondering about your purpose, or leading an organization and feeling pulled in every direction—these are the reminders that matter most.

🔗 Resources...

We’re bringing you something special. This exclusive episode is part of our Scale Coaching Series, where we take you behind the scenes of the systems, structure, and strategy that fuel real salon growth.

In part one, you’ll hear what happens when 40% of your revenue disappears overnight, what you must know about your back bar, and how to lead your team with confidence—not chaos.

👉 Want parts 2 and 3? They’re available exclusively at therefinenetwork.com/scale—just scroll to the bottom of the page to listen.

🔗 Links & Resources:
📊 Learn more about Skill Coaching: the...

From KPI boards and shout‑outs to meetings that keep everyone aligned, we share practical examples, mindset shifts, and stories from real salons. If you’ve ever felt stuck trying to solve the same problems over and over, this one’s for you.

🔗 Links & Resources:
Learn more about Skill Coaching: refinenetwork.com/skillcoaching
Join The Artist Academy: refinenetwork.com/artistacademy
Get on the list for Scale: refinenetwork.com/scale
Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork

In this episode, we’re diving into what it really takes to build a connected, high-performing salon team—from group flow and psychological safety to leadership habits and onboarding systems that scale.

If you’ve ever struggled with new hires disrupting the vibe, educator burnout, or wondering how involved you should be as an owner — this one’s for you. We’re talking training, trust, and the strategies that keep your culture strong.

🔗 Links & Resources:
Learn more about The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy
Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork

Not all numbers are created equal. In this episode, we break down the metrics that are holding salons back—and the ones that actually drive growth. From service sales per hour to average ticket, we're cutting through the noise and simplifying what matters most.

If you're still basing promotions on retail percentage or obsessing over rebooks at checkout, this one’s for you. Learn how to shift your focus, coach with clarity, and make data work for your team—not against them.

🔗 Links & Resources:
📊 Learn more about Skill Coaching: refinenetwork.com/skillcoaching
🎓 Join The Artist Acad...

In this episode, Gordon Miller returns to the podcast for a thought-provoking conversation on the future of the beauty industry. From tech innovations like AI agents and intuitive salon systems to the realities of leadership, mentorship, and financial transparency, Gordon shares powerful insights rooted in decades of experience.

We talk about:
• What tech really means for salon owners (and how to embrace it)
• The shift from manual management to intuitive automation
• The danger of unrealistic messaging in beauty education
• How leadership today can better serve future generations
• And why kindness, context, and clarity st...

In this episode, we’re breaking down the AVV Approach—what it really means to be Available, Visible, and Valuable as a leader. From jumping in to help at the front desk to noticing the tiny details that shape the team’s experience, Evan and Chris get real about how small actions can build trust and impact culture.

You’ll hear insights on:
- Why leadership isn’t about hierarchy—it’s about presence
- How showing up in unexpected ways earns real equity with your team
- What stepping into support roles teaches you (and revea...

In this bonus episode, we’re fresh off the REFINE Leader’s Retreat and sitting down to talk through what made this one feel different—from emotional breakthroughs and honest conversations to real-time strategy shifts and unexpected team bonding (golf included).

We get into:
• The power of vulnerability in leadership
• What it really takes to build strong team culture
• Systems that support—not stifle—your growth
• Why authenticity, not perfection, is the goal

Whether you're leading a salon, building a business, or just figuring out your next step, this behind-the-scenes look is full of real ta...