Queer Consciousness: LGBTQ+ Mindset Empowerment Podcast

40 Episodes
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By: Springwood Productions

Welcome to "Queer Consciousness," the thought-provoking podcast hosted by a trans, nonbinary soul on a transformative journey of empowerment and impact. Join Host Kit Sargent as they delve into mindset, connection, authenticity, and impact through engaging storytelling and insightful discussions. Embrace your true self and foster meaningful connections within yourself and the world around you for profound personal growth. With practical strategies and heartfelt advice, we encourage you to leave your unique mark on the world. Together, let's elevate queer consciousness and change the world!

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The Sinfluence of Deconstruction Pt. 1: EmbryAnne
The Sinfluence of Deconstruction Pt. 1: EmbryAnne episode artwork
#25
Today at 12:28 AM

EmbryAnne is a Trad Wife turned Phone Sex Operator who deconstructed to the point where she can use her Evangelical upbringing to bring pleasure to her clients, in a whole new way.

You can follow EmbryAnne on her socials: @EmbryAnne42

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

Come and be a part of our growing community, check out our Patreon: https://patreon.com/QueerConsciousnessPodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm...


RECAP of For the Love of the Game
RECAP of For the Love of the Game episode artwork
#24
Last Wednesday at 9:40 PM

She was so nice we had to do it twice. Cristina Van Epps comes back on the pod to have another brilliant conversation about being AroAce and how that translates to sex and everything around it.

You can follow Cristina on her podcast, I Seduce The Dragon, on all their socials: @istdpod

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our...


The Expansiveness of Sex: Amanda Timpson Pt. 2
The Expansiveness of Sex: Amanda Timpson Pt. 2 episode artwork
#23
06/12/2026

As a history nerd who loves learning about the past, I was super excited that Amanda wanted to come back on the pod and have a conversation with me and Jess. She’s one of the coolest people I know, and if you don’t have a crush on your friends, you need better friends.

You can follow Amanda on Instagram and TikTok: @yesterqueers

If you want to learn more about Amanda and all the things she’s researching, check out her website: Yesterqueers

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

Y...


The Expansiveness of Sex: Amanda Timpson Pt. 1
The Expansiveness of Sex: Amanda Timpson Pt. 1 episode artwork
#22
06/05/2026

As a history nerd who loves learning about the past, I was super excited that Amanda wanted to come back on the pod and have a conversation with me and Jess. She’s one of the coolest people I know, and if you don’t have a crush on your friends, you need better friends.

You can follow Amanda on Instagram and TikTok: @yesterqueers

If you want to learn more about Amanda and all the things she’s researching, check out her website: Yesterqueers

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

Y...


For the Love of the Game Pt. 2: Cristina Van Epps
For the Love of the Game Pt. 2: Cristina Van Epps episode artwork
#21
05/28/2026

She was so nice we had to do it twice. Cristina Van Epps comes back on the pod to have another brilliant conversation about being AroAce and how that translates to sex and everything around it.

You can follow Cristina on her podcast, I Seduce The Dragon, on all their socials: @istdpod

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our...


For the Love of the Game Pt.1: Cristina Van Epps
For the Love of the Game Pt.1: Cristina Van Epps episode artwork
#20
05/21/2026

She was so nice we had to do it twice. Cristina Van Epps comes back on the pod to have another brilliant conversation about being AroAce and how that translates to sex and everything around it.

You can follow Cristina on her podcast, I Seduce The Dragon, on all their socials: @istdpod

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our...


RECAP of Leading from the Front
RECAP of Leading from the Front episode artwork
#19
05/20/2026

Dakarai Larriett is an Alabama native running for the U.S. Senate. The primary is May 19th so if you live in Alabama, make sure you are registered to vote and go out and lend your voice. We support Dakarai and endorse him. Like Dakarai said in our conversation, we need a diversity of voices in higher levels of government. And he is leading from the front.

You can check out all of Dakarai’s socials:

www.dakarailarriett.comhttps://www.instagram.com/dakarailarriettforsenate/https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61574763727908https://www.tiktok.com/@dakarai.larriett

...


Leading from the Front: Dakarai Larriett
Leading from the Front: Dakarai Larriett episode artwork
#18
05/16/2026

Dakarai Larriett is an Alabama native running for the U.S. Senate. The primary is May 19th so if you live in Alabama, make sure you are registered to vote and go out and lend your voice. We support Dakarai and endorse him. Like Dakarai said in our conversation, we need a diversity of voices in higher levels of government. And he is leading from the front.

You can check out all of Dakarai’s socials:

www.dakarailarriett.comhttps://www.instagram.com/dakarailarriettforsenate/https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61574763727908https://www.tiktok.com/@dakarai.larriett

...


100th Episode!!!
100th Episode!!! episode artwork
#17
05/07/2026

It’s our 100th episode! Jess and Kit chat about how they got here and what they have envisioned for the future.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, check out our Patreon: https://patreon.com/QueerConsciousnessPodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink

We have a YouTube channel now! If...


RECAP of Sex is Secondary
RECAP of Sex is Secondary episode artwork
#16
05/06/2026

Jess reached out to their friend Allyn and we had a brilliant conversation about being AroAce. Both Jess and Kit took away a lot from this conversation and we hope you do too. (Allyn does not have any socials, but we will pass on any messages that you’d like us to.)

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, ch...


Sex is Secondary Pt. 2: Allyn
Sex is Secondary Pt. 2: Allyn episode artwork
#15
05/01/2026

Jess reached out to their friend Allyn and we had a brilliant conversation about being AroAce. Both Jess and Kit took away a lot from this conversation and we hope you do too. (Allyn does not have any socials, but we will pass on any messages that you’d like us to.)

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, ch...


Sex is Secondary Pt. 1: Allyn
Sex is Secondary Pt. 1: Allyn episode artwork
#14
04/24/2026

Jess reached out to their friend Allyn and we had a brilliant conversation about being AroAce. Both Jess and Kit took away a lot from this conversation and we hope you do too. (Allyn does not have any socials, but we will pass on any messages that you’d like us to.)

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, ch...


RECAP of The Key is Communication
RECAP of The Key is Communication episode artwork
#13
04/21/2026

Hey Friend! So we’re starting something new. After every conversation, Jess and Kit chat about how it went and what our biggest takeaway from the conversation was. We thought that we’d share these little conversations with you, our wonderful listener. So enjoy this short chat about our conversation with AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez.

We will be releasing these chats after every guest, so every other week or so.

You can follow AnaYelsi on Instagram: @brwneyedamzn

You can go check out her website to see how you can work with her: AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez – personal transf...


The Key is Communication Pt. 2: AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez
The Key is Communication Pt. 2: AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez episode artwork
#12
04/16/2026

AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez is an IndoLatinx mujerista, artist, and public educator originally from Venezuela. Her work centers on healing, justice, and collective liberation. As the creator of the Interlocking Justice methodology, AnaYelsi invites individuals and communities into deeper relationship with themselves and one another—supporting them in naming harm, restoring connection, and building just, sustainable ways of being together. Through her practice, AVS Consulting, and as founder of the Interlocking Justice Institute, AnaYelsi accompanies people across sectors—including schools, nonprofits, faith spaces, and businesses—as they seek to align their values with their actions. Her approach is heart-centered and collaborative, rooted...


The Key is Communication Pt. 1: AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez
The Key is Communication Pt. 1: AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez episode artwork
#11
04/09/2026

AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez is an IndoLatinx mujerista, artist, and public educator originally from Venezuela. Her work centers on healing, justice, and collective liberation. As the creator of the Interlocking Justice methodology, AnaYelsi invites individuals and communities into deeper relationship with themselves and one another—supporting them in naming harm, restoring connection, and building just, sustainable ways of being together. Through her practice, AVS Consulting, and as founder of the Interlocking Justice Institute, AnaYelsi accompanies people across sectors—including schools, nonprofits, faith spaces, and businesses—as they seek to align their values with their actions. Her approach is heart-centered and collaborative, rooted...


Pride Therapy Pt. 2: Kadee Sloan
Pride Therapy Pt. 2: Kadee Sloan episode artwork
#10
04/02/2026

Kadee Sloan has 20 years of experience serving the Queer community as a therapist. Her dating book, The Lesbian Dating Survival Guide, helps lesbians navigate the dating world today. We had such a great conversation about how there are so many things that blend into what sex is and what it means to someone.

You can follow Kadee on Instagram: @pride_mind2026

You can check out her services at her website: Pride Therapy: Couples & Individual Counseling in Asheville

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit...


Pride Therapy Pt. 1: Kadee Sloan
Pride Therapy Pt. 1: Kadee Sloan episode artwork
#9
03/28/2026

Kadee Sloan has 20 years of experience serving the Queer community as a therapist. Her dating book, The Lesbian Dating Survival Guide, helps lesbians navigate the dating world today. We had such a great conversation about how there are so many things that blend into what sex is and what it means to someone.

You can follow Kadee on Instagram: @pride_mind2026

You can check out her services at her website: Pride Therapy: Couples & Individual Counseling in Asheville

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow...


The Candid Check-in with Kit: Jess & Kit
The Candid Check-in with Kit: Jess & Kit episode artwork
#8
03/19/2026

Hey, friends. Jess and I are in the same city! This was a conversation that started in the car driving around Minneapolis, and we thought we should have been recording. So we did just that. It was a candid conversation about what I’ve been feeling and processing so far this season. And when you join the Patreon, you can read more about what I’ve been thinking and feeling in each conversation in the episode blogs that I’ve been posting. We also posted the video to our YouTube page if you’d like to see us in the same...


Love & Responsibility: Tom Goss
Love & Responsibility: Tom Goss episode artwork
#7
03/12/2026

Tom Goss is a brilliant musician and an all around amazing human being. We got to have a fantastic conversation about what sex means to him and how his time in a Catholic Seminary had helped him integrate his own queer identity as well as how it helped him understand his understanding of sex.

You can follow Tom on Instagram: @tomgossmusic

You can check out his website for all his tour dates: tomgossmusic.com

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and...


Black Pony Club Pt. 2: Kylian den Toirneach
Black Pony Club Pt. 2: Kylian den Toirneach episode artwork
#6
03/05/2026

Kylian den Toirneach is a very handsome, majestic horse that came to play with us and have a great chat about the Pony Scene as well as so many other things about sex, and all that it encompasses for him.

You can follow Kylian on all Socials: @rubberponykylian

You can follow his podcast on the podcatcher of your choice: Straight from the Horse’s Mouth

You can also check out his website at: RubberPony.com

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on...


Black Pony Club Pt. 1: Kylian den Toirneach
Black Pony Club Pt. 1: Kylian den Toirneach episode artwork
#5
02/26/2026

Kylian den Toirneach is a very handsome, majestic horse that came to play with us and have a great chat about the Pony Scene as well as so many other things about sex, and all that it encompasses for him.

You can follow Kylian on all Socials: @rubberponykylian

You can follow his podcast on the podcatcher of your choice: Straight from the Horse’s Mouth

You can also check out his website at: RubberPony.com

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on...


Connection, Depth and Vulnerability Pt. 2: Dr. Joli Hamilton
Connection, Depth and Vulnerability Pt. 2: Dr. Joli Hamilton episode artwork
#4
02/19/2026

This second half of the conversation, Dr. Joli shared a really personal experience that she had with her partner and how they came out of it. You can hear more about it on her podcast, Playing With Fire.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, check out our Patreon: https://patreon.com/QueerConsciousnessPodcast?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join...


Connection, Depth and Vulnerability Pt. 1: Dr. Joli Hamilton
Connection, Depth and Vulnerability Pt. 1: Dr. Joli Hamilton episode artwork
#3
02/12/2026

Welcome to the first official conversation of Season 7! We had to bring back Dr. Joli because of the amazing conversation we had last time. And the fact that she is an absolute wealth of expertise when it comes to sex and intimacy. This will be a 2 part conversation so come back next week for the second half.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a...


Season 7 Intro: Jess
Season 7 Intro: Jess episode artwork
#2
02/05/2026

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, check out our Patreon:

Send us fan mail! Comment on the episodes! If you would like to be on the podcast, or have any topics that you’d like us to discuss, send us an email. All emails can be sent to: queerconsciousnesspod@gmail.com

If you or so...


Season 7 Intro: Kit
Season 7 Intro: Kit episode artwork
#1
01/29/2026

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

If you want to be a part of our growing community, check out our Patreon:

Send us fan mail! Comment on the episodes! If you would like to be on the podcast, or have any topics that you’d like us to discuss, send us an email. All emails can be sent to: queerconsciousnesspod@gmail.com

If you or so...


Homeschool Deconstructed Pals Pt. 2: Elise Schempp
Homeschool Deconstructed Pals Pt. 2: Elise Schempp episode artwork
#18
12/30/2025

Elise Schempp is a wonderful human who understands that these types of conversations are so needed. So much so, they started their own podcast because of it.

You can follow their podcast, Holy Homo Healing Hour, wherever you get your podcasts.

You can check out their website: holyhomopod.com/home

You can follow Elise on Threads, and Instagram: @elise_aldea

If you need a starting point for figuring out how to deconstruct, @montemader on Instagram is a fabulous resource. She’s fantastic and is such a great resource.

You ca...


Homeschool Deconstructed Pals Pt. 1: Elise Schempp
Homeschool Deconstructed Pals Pt. 1: Elise Schempp episode artwork
#17
12/20/2025

Elise Schempp is a wonderful human who understands that these types of conversations are so needed. So much so, they started their own podcast because of it.

You can follow their podcast, Holy Homo Healing Hour, wherever you get your podcasts.

You can check out their website: holyhomopod.com/home

You can follow Elise on Threads, and Instagram: @elise_aldea

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram...


Your Journey is Your Own Pt. 2: Cristina Van Epps
Your Journey is Your Own Pt. 2: Cristina Van Epps episode artwork
#16
12/13/2025

Cristina Van Epps is a rocket scientist, a tea enthusiast, a lifelong D&D player, and one of the coolest people I’ve had the pleasure of speaking to. Being AroAce is definitely a challenge in our current society and Cristina has learned how to understand herself and the world around her with such grace, compassion, and curiosity.

You can find Cristina playing Tohri Kol on I Seduce The Dragon on all their socials: @istdpod

You can check their website: I Seduce The Dragon Podcast

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.co...


Your Journey is Your Own Pt. 1: Cristina Van Epps
Your Journey is Your Own Pt. 1: Cristina Van Epps episode artwork
#15
12/05/2025

Cristina Van Epps is a rocket scientist, a tea enthusiast, a lifelong D&D player, and one of the coolest people I’ve had the pleasure of speaking to. Being AroAce is definitely a challenge in our current society and Cristina has learned how to understand herself and the world around her with such grace, compassion, and curiosity.

You can find Cristina playing Tohri Kol on I Seduce The Dragon on all their socials: @istdpod

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sa...


Check in Pt. 2: Jess Grace Garcia
Check in Pt. 2: Jess Grace Garcia episode artwork
#14
11/07/2025

Hey There gorgeous friends! We are back with part 2 of our Season 6 check in with Me your producer Jess and your host Kit. Be prepared for some fiery, edgy and sometimes political conversations. We know you love it and we love you. Hope you enjoy the vulnerabilities shared and feel like a fly on the wall in our conversation. P.S. We will be taking a 2 week break due to the fact that I will be getting married in a couple days and Kit is coming out here to be with us on this special day. Also the following...


Check-in Pt. 1: Jess Grace Garcia
Check-in Pt. 1: Jess Grace Garcia episode artwork
#13
10/30/2025

Hey there gorgeous friends. It’s your friendly behind the scenes…. Sometimes on mic… producer Jess. This week Kit and I decided to have a little check in conversation on mic where we chat about what’s going on in our lives, the importance of touch, pursuing joy in a rough political and personal season and how we hope to see our community grow and evolve. This will be a 2 part conversation and we hope that you enjoy it as much as we had having it.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can...


The Community of Othering Pt. 2: Bill Hulseman
The Community of Othering Pt. 2: Bill Hulseman episode artwork
#12
10/23/2025

Bill Hulseman is a writer, a ritual designer, and former educator. He’s lived many different lives all over the country and has built community in all of them. To leave you with the blessing he left us: Be who you are, and be blessed in all that you are.

You can follow Bill on Instagram: @billhulsemanrituals

You can check out his website: bill hulseman rituals seattle wedding officiant nontraditional lgbtq

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

...


The Community of Othering Pt. 1: Bill Hulseman
The Community of Othering Pt. 1: Bill Hulseman episode artwork
#11
10/17/2025

Bill Hulseman is a writer, a ritual designer, and former educator. He’s lived many different lives in all parts of the country and has built community in all of them. We talked about that in this episode so stick around for part 2 next week.

You can follow Bill on Instagram: @billhulsemanrituals

You can check out his website: bill hulseman rituals seattle wedding officiant nontraditional lgbtq

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Pr...


The Long Answer Pt. 2: Derek Webb
The Long Answer Pt. 2: Derek Webb episode artwork
#10
10/09/2025

Derek Webb is a prolific musician and has a career that’s almost as old as I am. He’s as staunch of an ally for the queer community as you can get, and his latest album, Survival Songs, is both a love letter and a battlecry. Give it a listen wherever you get your music. 15/10 recommend.

You can follow Derek on Instagram: @derekwebb

You can check out his website for all his tour dates as well as his Patreon: Derek webb

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You...


The Long Answer Pt. 1: Derek Webb
The Long Answer Pt. 1: Derek Webb episode artwork
#9
10/02/2025

Derek Webb is a prolific musician and has a career that’s almost as old as I am. He’s as staunch of an ally for the queer community as you can get, and his latest album, Survival Songs, is both a love letter and a battlecry. Give it a listen wherever you get your music. 15/10 recommend.

You can follow Derek on Instagram: @derekwebb

You can check out his website for all his tour dates as well as his Patreon: Derek webb

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You...


Devotion to Community Service Pt.2: Aaron Almanza
Devotion to Community Service Pt.2: Aaron Almanza episode artwork
#8
09/26/2025

Aaron Almanza is the Executive Director of the LGBT National Help Center. Being able to have a conversation with someone who knows how important it is to share our stories and hold space for our own discovery and finding our own identity was such a gift. We need the LGBT National Hotline now more than ever. So if you can, please go check out their website, their socials, and if you can donate to help them continue to serve our community, please do.

You can check out the LGBT National Hotline website: Home - LGBT National Help...


Devotion to Community Service Pt.1: Aaron Almanza
Devotion to Community Service Pt.1: Aaron Almanza episode artwork
#7
09/18/2025

Aaron Almanza is the Executive Director of the LGBT National Help Center. Being able to have a conversation with someone who knows how important it is to share our stories and hold space for our own discovery and finding our own identity was such a gift. We need the LGBT National Hotline now more than ever. So if you can, please go check out their website, their socials, and if you can donate to help them continue to serve our community, please do.

You can check out the LGBT National Hotline website: Home - LGBT National Help...


Vulnerable Joy Pt 2: Amanda Darrow
Vulnerable Joy Pt 2: Amanda Darrow episode artwork
#6
09/11/2025

Amanda Darrow is leading by example as to what queer, vulnerable joy is. She’s the director of IncludEd United, which brings awareness to the differences we all have just by being human.

You can follow Amanda on Instagram: @darrowamanda

You can check out IncludEd United at their website: www.includedunited.org

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

Send us fan mail! Comment on the ep...


Vulnerable Joy Pt 1: Amanda Darrow
Vulnerable Joy Pt 1: Amanda Darrow  episode artwork
#5
09/04/2025

Amanda Darrow is leading by example as to what queer, vulnerable joy is. She’s the director of IncludEd United, which brings awareness to the differences we all have just by being human.

You can follow Amanda on Instagram: @darrowamanda

You can check out IncludEd United at their website: www.includedunited.org

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer Jess on Instagram: @jessgracegarcia

Send us fan mail! Comment on the ep...


The One Life: Ingrid Hu Dahl
The One Life: Ingrid Hu Dahl episode artwork
#4
08/28/2025

Ingrid Hu Dahl is an author, entrepreneur, coach, and horse enthusiast. Her memoir, Sun Shining on Morning Snow, is a heartfelt sharing of lived experience that every queer person should read. You can support her and buy her book at any small, local, indie, queer-owned bookstore.

You can find all her info at her website: www.ingridhudahl.com

You can follow her on Instagram: @ingridhudahl

You can follow the podcast on Instagram: @_queer.consciousness

You can follow Host Kit on Instagram and TikTok: @sargent.says

You can follow Producer...