The Underground

We're back for a brand new season of The Underground Podcast!In our first episode, Phil and Kate are joined by Dr Ana Attlee, co-founder of Seedball, to talk about wildflowers, pollinators, biodiversity and the role garden centres can play in helping people make more wildlife-friendly choices.Seedball was created to make growing wildflowers from seed as simple as possible. Ana shares how Seedball grew from academic research and a passion for conservation into a mission-led garden product stocked by retailers including garden centres. The conversation explores the loss of wildflower meadows, the importance of bees and other pollinators...

What’s the one change you’d most like to see in garden retail over the next five years? At Glee 2025, we put that question to all 20 of our guests who joined us in The Underground podcast booth – from garden centre owners and suppliers to marketeers, educators and innovators. The result is a sharp, hopeful snapshot of where the garden sector wants to head next. 

In this compilation episode you’ll hear from voices including:
Amy and Libby Stubbs (British Garden Centres), Kate Ebbens (Woodlodge), Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek), Boyd Douglas-Davies, Peter Burks (GCA), Nigel Thompson...

The science of plant nutrition is moving fast, and it is reshaping everything from peat-free compost to profit margins on the shop floor. In this Glee 2025 special, Phil and Kate sit down with Steve Harper, MD of Grass Gains and Chair of the Responsible Sourcing Scheme, and then with Simon Taylor and Helen Thomas from Empathy, Plantworks, to explore what comes next for lawn care, plant feeds and bio-fertilisers in garden retail. 

Steve explains how Grass Gains is bringing professional-grade lawn products and a new peat-free specific plant food, Bloom, into the consumer market, why excess potassium is sabotag...

Marketing for garden centres is changing fast. In this Glee 2025 episode of The Underground, Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with two specialists to explore how loyalty data and paid media can work together to drive footfall, sales and long-term customer value in the home and garden sector.

First up, Vanessa Cranford from Spring Marketing explains why garden centre loyalty schemes should be treated as profit engines, not cost centres. Drawing on two decades of experience and data from over 100 UK sites, she shows how EPOS-linked loyalty programmes can lift average transaction value by around 50%, in...

Recorded live on the show floor at Glee 2025, this episode of The Underground discovers how the garden sector is nurturing innovation, supporting newcomers and helping customers navigate a changing retail landscape.

Phil and Kate first sit down with Tony Kersey, Membership Ambassador at GIMA, to explore why the trade association is seeing record growth, how it is supporting over 200 members, and what smaller suppliers really need to know to make the most of a show like Glee. Tony shares how the supplier–retailer relationship is evolving, the rise of marketplace and e-commerce teams, and why collaboration is...

Garden centres aren’t just about plants anymore. Recorded live at Glee 2025, Phil & Kate sit down with Paul Pleydell of Pleydell Smithyman and Barry Knight of The Full Range to unpack how experience, smart design and a considered food offer can lift margins, smooth seasonality and win younger families. From “make it better before you make it bigger” to being famous for something (yes, even a lemon meringue pie a foot high), this episode is packed full of ideas for teams who want their site to be talked about for the right reasons.

Guests
Paul Pleyde...

Recorded at Glee 2025, Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with Lee Connelly, the Children’s Gardening Coach (formerly Skinny Jean Gardener), and Nigel Thompson, Sales & Marketing Director at Sipcam Home & Garden, to explore how the trade can engage families, support schools, and modernise product ranges for today’s consumer. Expect practical ideas for garden centres, insight on brand-building as a challenger, and new product thinking across outdoor and houseplant care. 

What you’ll hear

School gardening at scale: Lee’s 2025 tour reached 10,000 children in a single week across 30 schools, sparking classroom-to-home participation and long-term follow-up with...

In this live Glee Q&A, Phil sits down with Alan Roper, Managing Director of Blue Diamond Garden Centres, for a frank look at what really drives performance in modern garden retail: culture, commercial discipline, and relentless differentiation.

Roper explains why scale only works when the “engine room” is tuned for profit and cash, not vanity growth; why benchmarking and ownership culture beat top-down control; how demographic waves continue to pull new gardeners into the category; and where the next profit centres are likely to emerge. He also gives a straight-talking view on British supply, sustainability trade-offs, and t...

This episode takes on a distinctly international feel: once again at Glee 2025, Phil and Kate sit down with two voices from opposite sides of the Atlantic who share a common mission: get more people excited about nature, and make it easier for retailers to serve them brilliantly.

First up, Michael Perry (Mr Plant Geek) explains why he now calls himself a plant promoter, what makes a plant “promotion-worthy,” and the nine trend pillars he’s been touring the halls with: from “Go green or go lean” to “Hedges & Wedges” (living mulch done right). He also spotlights curiosities from his Future Plant...

This episode pays homage to the support systems that make horticulture special. Phil Wright and co-host Kate Turner talk with Nat Boynton and Meg Warren-Davis from YPHA about practical ways the community invests in young professionals: from bursaries and employer-backed time to train, to sponsors and partners who step in when it matters. Then Kaz Edwards (Heart of Eden) shares how the trade rallied when she was made redundant, opening doors within weeks and proving why this sector’s people-first culture is its superpower. 

In this episode:

The power of backing young talent: YPHA’s Launch Success j...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, recorded live at Glee 2025, hosts Phil Wright and Kate Turner sit down with three guests shaping the garden sector’s next chapter: Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst from Durstons, and Kate Ebbens, Commercial Business Manager at Woodlodge and passionate Greenfingers Charity ambassador.

From product innovation to purpose-driven missions, this episode captures what’s driving momentum across the garden industry today.

Durstons share how a bold rebrand has transformed their image, while staying true to their heritage. And how they’re leading the charge in consistent, high-performing peat-free compost.

Woodlodge’s Kate E...

Recorded live at Glee 2025, this episode brings two very different lenses on garden retail performance and growth. First, Amy and Libby Stubbs share how British Garden Centres has scaled to 73 locations while keeping each site’s individuality, from centre-level social media to data-driven benchmarking and a renewed focus on tech, process and customer loyalty. Then Reverend Dave Walker explains how he’s reviving Sheffield’s Birley Moor Garden Centre with community at the core: forest school education, nature-based improvements on site and a clear-eyed approach to cash flow, planning and supplier partnerships.
In this episode you’ll hear: 

Recorded on the show floor at Glee 2025, Phil & Kate sit down with Peter Burks, Chief Executive of the Garden Centre Association (GCA), and Boyd Douglas-Davies (The Boyd Partnership; Chair of Greenfingers) for a rapid pulse-check on garden retail: what’s working now, what’s changing, and where the next wins are. Expect practical takeaways on merchandising, training, social media, and turning your centre into a community hub—plus a Greenfingers update straight from Floral Thursday.

What we cover

Evergreen Garden Care’s UK & Ireland Marketing Director, Karen Wilkinson, joins Phil and Kate to unpack Evergreen’s new five-year category vision, how better education can unlock growth, and what it really takes to build a brand that earns shopper trust. Expect practical takeaways for suppliers and retailers ahead of Glee.
Inside Evergreen’s category vision
Karen explains how the team stepped back after a tough season to map long-term category growth, identifying over £152m of incremental upside if the industry attracts new shoppers and helps existing gardeners do more, spend smarter, and trade up where value is clea...

Alan Roper, Managing Director of Blue Diamond Garden Centres, returns to The Underground Podcast for another unmissable conversation ahead of Glee 2025. As the UK’s most profitable garden centre group, Blue Diamond has become the sector’s benchmark for growth, ambition, and resilience.
In this candid discussion with Phil Wright and Kate Turner, Alan shares his no-nonsense perspective on:

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate sit down with Nikki Burton, Managing Director, and Dr Victoria Wright, Technical Manager at Melcourt, the UK’s leading peat-free growing media company.

Melcourt has been at the forefront of sustainable horticulture for over 40 years, building its reputation on bark-based innovation, technical excellence, and consistent quality, epitomised by their RHS endorsement. Nikki and Victoria share the company’s journey from forestry roots to Royal Warrant holders, with insights into how they pioneered their peat-free products long before it became a national priority.

Listeners will discover:

Why...

As the official podcast partner for Glee once again, The Underground Podcast kicks off our 2025 coverage with Steven May of JDM Country Products. Steven brings a unique perspective on how both exhibitors and buyers can get the most value from the UK’s leading garden trade show.
In this episode, Steven unpacks the power of smart sales techniques in garden retail — including his now-famous “Would you like fries with that?” analogy — and explains how upselling done right can transform profitability. He also shares practical advice for exhibitors on how to design a stand that stands out, and guidance for buyers...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate welcome Anna Wili, Head of Marketing for the National Garden Scheme (NGS), a charity with almost a century of history opening gardens for good causes. Anna shares how the NGS began in 1927 as a way to fund district nursing, and how it’s grown to over 3,500 gardens opening each year, raising more than £74 million for nursing and health charities.
We explore the unique blend of horticulture, hospitality, and heart that makes garden visiting so special. From peeping behind rarely opened gates to enjoying a slice of homemade cake. Ann...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate welcome back returning guest Scott Smith, who has just completed his thesis for the RHS Master of Horticulture (MHort). His subject? The hot topic of peat free compost, an issue that continues to challenge, frustrate, and divide gardeners and growers across the UK.
Scott shares insights from his self-funded, 14-week compost trial, comparing how different peat free products performed against traditional peat-based compost using Sungold tomatoes as his test crop. From nutrient lockout and NPK imbalances to the common mistake of overwatering due to dry surface layers, Scott’s...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil is joined by Beth Johnson, CEO of Umbrella, the promotions agency behind major campaigns for brands like Cadbury and Unilever. Together, they explore how the garden sector can borrow from the grocery playbook to drive footfall, shift stock, and boost brand engagement.

Beth shares:

In this episode of The Underground, we dig into the story behind SeedSticks® with Jamie Gray of Sow Easy, a second-generation family business with an unexpectedly brilliant journey from razor blades and swords to sustainable seed-based gifting. Jamie shares how a quirky R&D project from the 1980s became a unique product that's now catching the eye of retailers, eco-conscious consumers, and budding gardeners across the UK.

We talk about the rise of gifting in gardening, the power of visual growing aids, and the challenges (and charm) of breaking into retail with something genuinely new. From c...

In this episode, Kate and Phil sit down with Beth Anderson, a passionate plant health inspector and dedicated advocate for Young People in Horticulture. Beth shares her journey through the YPHA’s pilot Launch Success Challenge, a year-long initiative designed to equip under-35s with real-world marketing and branding skills for the horticultural industry.

From giving the humble Begonia an image makeover to pitching to industry leaders, and masterminding giant crepe paper flowers for Gardeners World Live, Beth talks candidly about teamwork, creativity, and why she believes the warmth and openness of horticulture makes it...

In the opening episode of Season 4, Phil and Kate discover the rich personal and professional journey of Will Armitage: agricultural and horticultural consultant, entrepreneur, and current President of the HTA (Horticultural Trades Association). From rebellious beginnings to helming his family’s sixth-generation business and ultimately championing the sector on a national stage, Will shares an absorbing story of tradition, adaptation and advocacy.

This episode explores the soul of horticulture, the people who make it thrive, the quiet power of collaboration in a competitive world, and the urgent need for government recognition. Will also lifts the lid on...

In this first episode of a two-part special from The Underground Podcast, hosts Kate and Phil dig into the root of the industry’s biggest environmental pivot—going peat free. With decades of dependency on this “gold standard” of growing media, why is it now so crucial to leave peat behind? And why is it proving so hard to replace?From the carbon cost of extraction to the slow regeneration of peatlands, this episode explores the environmental urgency driving the move away from peat. But this is no simple switch. Through conversations with leading scientists, manufacturers, campaigners, and trade leaders...

In this special episode of The Underground Podcast, Kate and Phil take you behind the scenes at the Garden Press Event 2025, held at the Business Design Centre in Islington, London. A key date in the gardening industry calendar, this event brings together brands, innovators, and industry experts to showcase the latest trends, products, and sustainability initiatives shaping the future of gardening.
As they weave through the bustling exhibition hall, Kate and Phil catch up with a diverse mix of exhibitors, from household names like Gardena, Evergreen Garden Care, and Westland to passionate independents driving innovation in the sector...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate sit down with internationally acclaimed garden designer, TV presenter, and horticulturalist Peter Donegan. Known for his visionary approach to garden design, Peter shares his journey from growing plants under his bed as a child to designing breathtaking landscapes around the world. His passion for storytelling through gardens shines through as he discusses transformative projects, including a poignant garden in Melbourne honouring veterans and a hidden courtyard garden in a 13th-century French castle (links to view below)

Peter also delves into the importance of biodiversity, how small ur...

In this episode of The Underground, Phil & Kate continue their deep dive into the role of green spaces in our built environment. They sit down with Neil Beamsley, Group Head of Biodiversity at Bellway Homes, to uncover how one of the UK’s major housebuilders is tackling biodiversity net gain. Neil shares insights on the legal requirements for developers to improve biodiversity, the challenges of balancing nature with new homes, and why small changes—like hedgehog highways and native planting—can make a huge impact.
Later in the episode, garden writer and wildlife champion Debi Holland joins the conver...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate dive into the often-overlooked green spaces that weave through our urban environments—verges, car park borders, roundabouts, and other ‘in-between’ spaces. These utilitarian landscapes may seem insignificant, but as horticultural consultant and garden designer Tom Angel explains, they have an enormous role to play in biodiversity, social wellbeing, and urban resilience.Tom brings his unique perspective, shaped by his background in geography, landscape contracting, and garden design, to highlight how these neglected areas could be transformed into thriving green assets. He shares fascinating insights into the challenges faced by the gr...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate are joined by Peter Burks, CEO of the Garden Centre Association (GCA), to dig into the evolving landscape of garden centres. With over 40 years in the industry, Peter shares his fascinating journey from growing up on a farm to leading the GCA, offering insights into how garden centres have adapted to challenges and consumer trends.

They explore the shift to peat-free compost, the rise of garden centre cafés and farm shops, and the crucial role of education and industry collaboration in keeping garden retail thriving. P...

In this episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate sit down with Ed Hill, founder of Horti House, a groundbreaking collective of British houseplant nurseries. From his unconventional journey—from professional sailing to working in tech start-ups—Ed shares how his diverse background equipped him to champion British growers and reshape the houseplant industry.
Discover how Horti House is bridging the gap between nurseries and retailers, solving logistical challenges, and advocating for sustainability with initiatives like peat-free growing and biomass heating. Ed explains the importance of collaboration in an industry often seen as traditional and highlights how inno...

In this captivating episode of The Underground Podcast, Phil and Kate sit down with Samantha Cook, head gardener at the historic Bardney Manor. But there’s more to Sam than meets the eye—she’s not only the visionary behind the garden’s restoration but also the custodian of an extraordinary legacy.
Sam shares her journey from a childhood immersed in horticulture to becoming a Lady of the Manor and a champion of seed preservation. Discover the fascinating history of Bardney Manor, once home to renowned 18th-century seedsman John Sharp, and how Sam has woven his pioneering spirit into her...

In this episode of The Underground, Phil and Kate sit down with Tony Clare, the Commercial Director of Henry Bell, a premium manufacturer of wild bird food and care products. With over 200 years of history, Henry Bell is leveraging its legacy and expertise to bring innovation and sustainability to a rapidly evolving market. Tony shares the company’s journey from manufacturing for other brands to launching its own. He discusses the growing importance of bird feeding for biodiversity, how garden centres can maximise their offerings with dedicated spaces and education, and why sustainable practices, like 100% recyclable packaging and environmentally fr...

In this episode, Kate and Phil chat with Dan Durston, National Sales Director of Durston Garden Products, and Simon Blackhurst, a consultant working on Durston’s groundbreaking peat-free compost range. Join the conversation as Dan delves into the rich history of this Somerset-based family business, from humble beginnings to its modern, innovative approach to sustainable horticulture. Simon shares his expertise on the challenges and triumphs of creating high-performing, peat-free growing media, shedding light on the science behind the transformation. The duo discusses the importance of education, the myths surrounding peat-free compost, and what it takes for the industry—and gard...

In this episode of The Underground, Phil and Kate sit down with Nigel Thompson, Sales and Marketing Director at Sipcam, to uncover the story behind this innovative and agile challenger brand in the garden industry. From its agricultural roots to the development of standout consumer gardening products, Sipcam is proving that being smaller doesn’t mean thinking small.  
Nigel shares insights into the brand’s unique culture, which fosters creativity and collaboration, and discusses how Sipcam’s eco-friendly innovations, like the award-winning Slug Stoppa, are setting new standards. Discover Nigel's thoughts on being a disruptor, winning the GIMA Sword o...

In this inspiring episode of The Underground, Phil and Kate are joined by Ross Dyke from The Plant Pod and Lee Connelly, aka The Skinny Jean Gardener, to discuss the power of horticulture in early years education. Ross shares the journey behind his “Get Children Growing” initiative, a creative programme designed to introduce primary school children to gardening with sustainable sunflower grow kits. From engaging hands-on activities to educational materials, the initiative aims to spark a lifelong love of gardening while teaching vital lessons in sustainability and responsibility.
Lee adds his perspective on the importance of building connections betw...

In the first episode of Season 3 of The Underground Podcast, hosts Kate and Phil return with a focus on the thriving Grow Your Own movement. Kicking off with Ade Sellers, known as The Good Life Gardener, the conversation explores how sustainable gardening is empowering communities, particularly in urban areas. Ade shares practical tips and insights on how garden care businesses can cater to beginner gardeners, highlighting the importance of accessibility and education. With his passion for sustainability and community, Ade paints a compelling picture of how gardening can improve mental health, foster connections, and promote a greener future.
T...

In this final episode of The Underground at Glee 2024 interview series, we welcome Alan Down, former President of the Horticultural Trades Association (HTA), and Terri Jones, co-founder of Joy of Plants. Down shares stories from his long career, his commitment to peat-free growing, and his efforts to highlight horticulture’s role in environmental solutions. Jones, with a background in technology, explains how she combines her passion for plants with digital tools, creating plant guides and services that cater to both garden centres and novice gardeners.
The episode covers the potential for innovation in horticulture, the importance of nurturing new...

In this episode Kate and Phil sit down with Steve Harper from Southern Trident and Matt Bryant from Harvest Pet Products. Harper discusses the benefits of coir, a sustainable alternative to peat, and shares updates on Southern Trident’s award-winning products. Bryant talks about Harvest’s journey from a family pet shop to a major wild bird food supplier and their focus on supporting biodiversity in British gardens.

Both guests delve into the environmental challenges and opportunities within their industries. Harper offers insights into sourcing coir responsibly and reducing carbon footprints, while Bryant highlights Harvest’s commit...

Data analytics isn't always the first thing that springs to mind when you're considering the Garden Sector, but getting your head around the numbers can give your business a significant advantage. Continuing our special episodes recorded live at Glee, we talk with two people who are all about the numbers: Anthony Creaby, Customer Success Manager from GfK and David Denny, Director of Research & Insights from the HTA.

GfK: https://nielseniq.com/global/en/

HTA: https://hta.org.uk/

Discover more about our hosts:

Kate Turner: ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.garde...

Continuing the conversations we recorded live at Glee 2024, this episode highlights among other things the fantastic work of the Young People in Horticulture Association (YPHA). Nat Boynton is one of the founders of the YPHA as well as being the Sales Director of Happy Plants, while Jess Dabell is the Brand Manager for Meadow View Stone, she's also a member of the YPHA and an ambassador for the Greenfingers Charity.

YPHA: https://www.ypha.org.uk/

Happy Plants: https://happyplants.co.uk/

Meadow View Stone: https://meadowviewstone.co.uk/