Wen Building

10 Episodes

By: Franci, Stephanie

Wen Building aims to engage in in-depth conversations with Web3 builders. It explores the cutting-edge technological developments in Web3, analyzes the mechanics of blockchain products, and observes industry trends and challenges. This show is supported by Antalpha Labs. Antalpha Labs is a Web3 developer community dedicated to push the boundaries of crypto space by supporting the innovation and success of open-source projects.

Mental Model of L2s Dealing with MEV, w/ a Deep Dive in Starknet

The first quarter of 2024 stands out as a period of remarkable growth for Layer 2 solutions (L2s). During this time, gas fees on L2s continued to decline, daily activities on select L2 platforms began surpassing those on the Ethereum mainnet, and a wave of innovative L2s with modular designs emerged. The prosperity of L2s also brings sequencer decentralization into the spotlight. With a multitude of both anticipated and unforeseen innovations shaping the L2 landscape, the evolution of MEV warrants closer examination.

In this episode, Stephanie (@stephaniiee_ho) delves deeper into her MEV series alongside...

Ep9 Are We Heading Towards the MEV Dystopia? A Deep Dive into the Complexities in MEV Supply Chain & Available Mitigations

After the Merge, the MEV landscape is grappling with an unexpected development— the integration of CeFi and DeFi searchers and builders.. A few powerful entities act like mafia getting access to each layer down the stack, posing substantial risks to Ethereum and users' funds. The question looming is whether we are inexorably progressing towards a MEV dystopia.

In this episode, Stephanie (@stephaniiee_ho) achieves a milestone in her journey of MEV exploration with Danning (@sui414), a data scientist from Flashbots, who works at the forefront of MEV observation and analysis. They have a deep dive into the mo...

ep8 An Anatomy of CoW Swap: A Pioneer In Intent-Based Trading With MEV-Minimizing Approaches - Ft. Anna George

If you are interested in DeFi and MEV, you might have heard of intent-based trading, frequent auction batch, solvers model, and Order Flow Auctions (OFAs). CoW Swap exemplifies the above innovations, organically incorporating them in a DEX product, ensuring optimal prices, the best routes, and MEV protection for end-users.

In this episode, Stephanie (@stephaniiee_eth) and Anna (@AnnaMSGeorge), cofounder of CoW Swap, engages in a detailed discussion, delving into intricacies of CoW Swap's product design. The conversation explores how the trading cycle in CoW Swap starting with collecting users' trading intents different from the traditional transaction life...

ep7 Hyper Oracle Co-founder Kartin | seamless dev development with programmable oracles

Welcome back to Wen Building podcast, this is an episode about Oracle, but forget about those traditional oracles used in blockchain. Cause we have Hyper Oracle here to present to us what are the new trend for Oracle space. In Hyper Oracle, they defined a network called zkOracle Network. what’s zkOracle and why it’s better than other traditional oracles such as Chainlink, The Graph, etc. In this episode, we will explore this landscape with Hyper Oracle’s co-founder Kartin.

Guest: Kartin, co-founder of Hyper Oracle, X @0xKartin

Host: Franci, X @FrancixDeng



ep6 EIP/ERC 仓库分家,谈谈以太坊治理组织与流程

10 月底,"EIP-7329: ERC/EIP Repository split" 正式生效,现在 ERC 仓库已从以前的 EIP 库中分离出来。也就是说,EIP repository 主要针对核心以太坊协议变更,而 ERC repository 则针对应用层规范变更,以便提供更好的组织和治理以支持两个社区。

借这一契机,Wen Building 邀请来了 LXDAO 联合创始人以及 EIP Fun 的 PM Bruce Xu,web3:// 以及 EthStorage 的创始人 Qi Zhou 共同来探讨这一变更给 builder 带来的一些影响,以及整个 EIP/ERC 治理流程的一些概要、问题和可以改善的地方。


Qi Zhou, Founder of web3://, EthStorage, X @qc_qizhou

Bruce XU, Cofounder of LXDAO, PM of EIP Fun, X @brucexu_eth


Franci Deng, Co founder of Wen Building, ex Editor @EthereumCN, X @FrancixDeng



00:20 Intro 与嘉宾介绍

05:00 简单介绍 EIP 及其分类与流程

13:50 从社区共识的角度聊一份提案从诞生-定稿需要做些什么努力

21:35 维护/促进 EIP 生态发展需要大家的努力,参与者大概可以分为哪些主要的 role?

29:50 从在决策过程中的利益相关者多样性的角度聊聊 EIP core protocol开发流程的一些问题与改善

36:55 EIP 与 ERC 的分家的目的与影响

51:08 最后的一些呼吁与对 EIP/ERC 开发治理的一些未来畅想





ERC-4804: Web3 URL to EVM Call Message Translation


EIP-7329: ERC/EIP Repository split


Ethereum Request for Comments (ERCs)


Ethereum Improvement Proposals (EIPs)


EIP-1: EIP Purpose and Guidelines


Ethereum Cat Herders





Wen Buil...

ep5 Ingonyama | Making ZKP computation more seamless and democratized

While we all care about how zk can make our life better, the tools that makes it easier is also crucial. In the past podcast, we talked about proving systems that might evolve a lot, which is something make proof generation more efficient. And we also talked about ZKML from the perspective of application and user cases.

In this podcast, we move from software and algorithms to hardware. How hardware makes all these ZK things more seamless and democratized. We have Omer here in this episode, the co-founder and CEO of Ingonyama. And also, we have a...

ep4 PBS 吐槽小会 | 漫谈 MEV 真实数据揭示的扎心现实以及以太坊的中心化情况


02:05 EigenPhi 的成立源于flashloan的出现

03:11 以智能合约为主的数据与传统金融很不一样

03:40 EigenPhi 不只是 MEV 数据分析平台

05:43 MEV 数据是区分 DeFi 与传统金融的关键

06:10 在区块链上所有竞争玩家的历史数据是fully observable的

07:29 MEV 及其常见类型

08:58 MEV 的好坏之分

10:45 三明治攻击利润多但条件要求较高

12:00 MEV 的情况比想象中严重

12:50 以太坊基金会也逃不过三明治攻击

13:58 MEV 进化地比想象的快

14:53 普通用户保护自己免受攻击的方法

17:20 在应用层减少 MEV 有一定收效,但应用不应该做这件事

17:44 DeFi 的可组合性使得应用减少 MEV 成效有限

22:09 The Merge对 MEV supply chain 的影响

23:25 The Merge是否实现了设计者转 PoS 的原意

24:02 The Merge后大部份交易的排序掌握在少数几个 builder 手上

25:04 MEV supply chain的组成

26:12 比较大的 searcher 都做了自己的builder

26:38 独立的builder是很难赚钱的

28:36 中心化的现象已经很严重

30:30 从机制上看,PBS 的两个特点必定导致中心化

36:44 需要看用户的真正使用情况

38:59 PBS 和 AA 本质上在改变以太坊的共识机制

40:07 OFA(订单流竞拍)是解决中心化的良药吗

41:42 目前缺乏对订单流进行有效定价的方法

42:16 是否确定性竞争是 OFA 能否解决中心化问题的关键

42:53 OFA 本身是单边竞价

43:37 MEV Evaluation 作为独立第三方提供数据促成交易

46:18 MEV 不会被消灭,应该如何处理 MEV


在本期播客,我们有幸邀请到了最大的 MEV 数据分析平台 EigenPhi 的 CEO 兼联合创始人 Mars Cheng 来从 MEV 的真实数据出发,聊聊 MEV。我们从 MEV 的基本概念,MEV 对 DeFi 应用的实际影响,应用层减少 MEV 举措的局限性,谈到到合并后在 MEV-boost 结构下严重的中心化问题,以及 PBS 路线图设计的不合理性。

说实话,这期播客聊到最后让人略感沮丧,这也是超出了主持人在准备时的预期。MEV 一直是一个复杂而具争议性的问题,现在确实不缺乏质疑 PBS 路线的声音。希望这期播客可以抛出话题,引起更多人的讨论和关注,碰撞出更好的解决方案。

Host: Stephanie@stephaniiee_eth

Guest: Mars Cheng@kidrane


EigenPhi twitter:https://twitter.com/EigenPhi

MEV 对 Uniswap 的影响研究报告:


三明治MEV 对 CoWswap 的影响研究报告:


MEV supply chain 利润分布的研究报告:


ep3 zkML - 让 AI 更加可信以及链上自主性的可能性

host:Franci @FrancixDeng

guest: Hill @Hill79025920

近几个月以来,不管是传统互联网行业还是区块链领域都在一定程度上受到了人工智能的冲击。随着全世界的互联网巨头陆续加入这场角逐,另一边,区块链的从业者们开始思考,这场人工智能争霸赛会给我们带来什么?当与构建 AI 应用和基础设施非常相关的数据、模型、算法、算力等等越来越可得时,我们需要思考什么?如果这一切都是在一个黑盒子中进行,我们还能信任它们吗?本期节目中,我们邀请来了 SevenX Ventures 的 Hill,一起探讨机器学习和零知识证明怎么样结合?区块链和 ZKP 如何平衡人工智能中的信任问题。

Hill 在 SevenX Ventures 中担任 Research Lead。在加入 SevenX 之前,他早期在其他项目和区块链中有过许多岗位的经验,比如对 mechanism design 和 tokenomics design 的研究,也涉猎过产品经理和投资者关系的相关工作。



00:55 关于嘉宾 Hill

02:37 AI 生态的爆发,对目前发展状况的一些看法

07:54 怎么理解 zkp 天然是区块链的补充

12:28 信任问题如何影响着 AI 领域:AI 产生结果的不确定性;产生结果的方式是个不透明的黑盒子

17:47 zkML 如何与区块链结合

25:44 链上自主性:如何使得智能合约更加智能

31:00 链上 AI 怎么样更为人所信任

37:55 zkml 目前的发展阶段:助推力与瓶颈

50:40 如何发现和满足市场的需求



Hill’s writings


Balancing the Power of AI/ML: The Role of ZK and Blockchain


zkML: Evolving the Intelligence of Smart Contracts Through Zero-Knowledge Cryptography


Zero-Knowledge Machine Learning (ZKML): Projects Exploring the Space


Checks and balances: Machine learning and zero-knowledge proofs




ep2 On proving systems - What ZKP builders need to know

In the past few months,a rising star called NOVA, kind of got everyone's attention, especially those cryptographers and builders working on zk projects. Nova is an advancement in  proving systems. NOVA is actually what we call a folding scheme. Essentially it folds the same computation or operation over and over repeatedly, and it folds it into a proof size of o(1). Assume that we do 10 times, 100 times, 1000 times of the same thing, the outcome is gonna be around the same size. Proving system is core at the entire ZKP field and every builder who wants to implement applications w...

ep1 当我们在谈论如何 build DEX 时——DODO的实现

host:Stephanie @stephaniiee_eth 

guest: 雷达熊 @bear_radar


00:48 邀请 DODO 的原因

01:46 buff 叠满的web3之路:炒币—>进入 DeFi—>退学—>DeFi summer Dex 创业

03:55 DODO 史前史

05:54 Dex 的前世今生

07:52 RFQ / intent centric(request for quota) 模式

11:22 AMM / 池模式

12:36 2020 DeFi Summer AMM 模式跑出的原因

13:28 池模式的无偿损失不容易感知

14:25 越来越多 LP 意识到自己在亏钱

16:57 不同的市场环境会凸显两种模式的优势与问题

18:13 Dex 面向的用户类型

20:00 交易所是头部效益与滚雪球效益特别明显的行业

21:11 DODO的产品设计是如何满足用户需求的

21:22 做集中流动性的两个方向

23:49 DODO V3 找到了平衡小白与专业LP的方法

26:08 做市商的最大成本是 rebalance

27:53 不同类型代币对的不同需求

30:47 什么是无偿损失,如何计算

33.40 Dex 常见的代币经济学

34:51 Curve 的经济模型是成功的庞氏游戏(非贬义)

38:15 DODO 成功的秘诀

40:00 超越 Uniswap 的机会只能在下一轮牛市?

40:50 Uniswap 的成功90%来自先发优势?

41:54 Dex 与 Cex 的差距

42:28 Dex 的逆袭之路

44:08 Dex 与 CEX 的本质区别是什么

47:41 DODO 希望提供市场流动性的竞争更强更专业

51:38 DeFi 天然适合以去中心化的方式整合多人资源然后让专业经理人做大事的模式

52:05 DODO X 跨链交易聚合

53:42 DEX 目前buidl的热点:意图交易

55:03 意图交易、rollup为中心和智能合约钱包描绘了同一个未来





DODO research:https://twitter.com/DodoResearch

DODO Blog: https://dodo-in-the-zoo.medium.com/

Radar Bear: https://twitter.com/bear_radar