How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty

I'm joined this week by a repeat offender, Tāmati Rimene-Sproat, TV presenter and host of Counting the Beat, who's now 18 months into fatherhood. We first met when Tāmati interviewed me for the show before he'd even had his son, so I wanted him back to talk about what those 18 months have actually been like on the other side.

Tāmati is refreshingly honest about the highs and lows: the sleep deprivation, the "no one tells you how hard this actually is" reality, and how quickly it all flies by. We talk about how he and his...

I'm joined this week by Davinnia Tan, an employment relations leader who has served as a member of the Employment Relations Authority, an independent reviewer of ACC decisions, and a peer reviewer for workplace investigations. While serving as a member, Davinnia became only the second person in the ERA's 25-year history to have a baby, and what followed was a front-row education in just how far Aotearoa's institutions still have to go when it comes to caregiving. Outside her day-to-day work, she writes Ngākau Reworked, exploring the motherhood penalty and matrescence through a tikanga-informed lens.

Davinnia s...

I'm joined this week by Jayne Chater, executive coach, leadership development specialist, and author of A Slight Detour: A Guide to Navigating Family and Career. Jayne has spent decades helping women accelerate their careers at every stage of life, and she brings both professional expertise and lived experience to this conversation as a mum of three navigating a blended whānau of nine.

We get honest about what the motherhood penalty actually feels like from the inside: the guilt of going back to work early, the guilt of staying home, and the quiet resentment that builds when c...

I'm delighted to welcome two next-level guests to the podcast: Dr. W. Brad Johnson and Dr. David G. Smith, authors of Fair Share: How Men and Women Can Create a More Equitable Workplace Together. Between them, Brad and David have spent decades researching mentoring, sponsorship and male allyship, and this conversation is a masterclass in why "today's workplace is broken" and what it will actually take to fix it.

We dig into the archaic 20th-century workplace built for men with a stay-at-home partner, why senior leaders often can't imagine anything different, and the granite wall dads hit...

I'm back with the marvellous Stephanie Pow, founder of Crayon and a repeat offender on this podcast. We recorded this the same morning we'd both been doing media commentary on the National Party's newly announced parental leave policy, so this episode is a bit of a riff session: two working parent advocates unpacking what the policy actually says, what it misses, and what we'd both want to see instead.

Steph walks me through the detail of the proposed staggered increase from 26 to 30 weeks of paid parental leave and the option to share it between partners, and we...

I'm back, my friends. After six months away writing a book, I'm kicking off this new season of How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty with a solo episode, sharing what I've been up to, checking in on my word of the year and unpacking three big "what remains stuck" ideas.

In this episode, I get into why dads are the missing piece of the equity puzzle, why New Zealand still doesn't have a dedicated voice advocating for working parents, and why the mental load remains stubbornly gendered, no matter how many boundaries, girls' weekends or to-do lists...

Happy Holidays and welcome to my Limited Edition Summer Series! This summer, I’m bringing you this limited-edition mini-series designed to help you reconnect with you. These episodes are all about reflection, self-leadership and setting yourself up for a year that feels intentional, not accidental.

In the final episode of the Summer Series, I close the series with a personal book roundup, sharing six books that deeply influenced my thinking, mindset, and growth in 2025.

Rather than a traditional book review, this episode is a reflective conversation about permission: permission to want more, to seek pleasure, to...

Happy Holidays and welcome to my Limited Edition Summer Series! This summer, I’m bringing you this limited-edition mini-series designed to help you reconnect with you. These episodes are all about reflection, self-leadership and setting yourself up for a year that feels intentional, not accidental.

In this episode, I dive into mindset. Why it matters, how it shapes our behaviour, and how we can take back control of the thoughts that quietly run the show.

Through personal stories from my corporate career and coaching practice, I illustrate how two people can experience the same situation in...

Happy Holidays and welcome to my Limited Edition Summer Series! This summer, I’m bringing you this limited-edition mini-series designed to help you reconnect with you. These episodes are all about reflection, self-leadership and setting yourself up for a year that feels intentional, not accidental.

The third episode of the Summer Series brings together the themes of the series with a practical, honest conversation about starting something of your own. Particularly a business, side hustle, or new direction that’s been quietly sitting with you for a while.

I share my own journey from a succ...

Happy Holidays and welcome to my Limited Edition Summer Series! This summer, I’m bringing you this limited-edition mini-series designed to help you reconnect with you. These episodes are all about reflection, self-leadership and setting yourself up for a year that feels intentional, not accidental.

In this episode, I explore change. Why we crave it, why we resist it, and how meaningful change actually happens.

Drawing on my own life transformation over the past five years, I share the pivotal moments that helped me radically reshape my career, health, relationships, and sense of self.

...

Happy Holidays and welcome to my Limited Edition Summer Series! Over the next five weeks, I’ll be bringing you this limited-edition mini-series designed to help you reconnect with you. These episodes are all about reflection, self-leadership and setting yourself up for a year that feels intentional, not accidental.

Across the series, I’ll share tools I’ve used for years as an executive coach and working parent, along with some of my own personal stories and lessons. Think of it as your summer reset: gentle, grounding, spacious, and totally centred around what you want from 2026.

...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat with Art Green, dad of three, entrepreneur, and one of New Zealand’s most recognisable modern fathers.

Art shares his journey from rural small-town kid to The Bachelor NZ, to building businesses, becoming a husband, and now raising three young children with his wife, Matilda.

But what makes this chat so powerful is Art’s vulnerability and intention as a parent. He speaks candidly about identity shifts, redefining success, the pressure men feel to earn, the struggle to let go of career expectations, and the mi...

In this episode, I chat with Georgie Dent, one of Australia’s leading voices on gender equality, parental support, early childhood education, and the motherhood penalty. As CEO of The Parenthood, Georgie has spent years campaigning for a system that recognises, values, and properly supports the work of caregiving.

Georgie shares her own lived experience, from her early career as a lawyer and journalist, to navigating severe burnout, to becoming a fierce advocate for parents and families across Australia.

We unpack the structural drivers of the motherhood penalty, the economic impact of underfunded childcare systems, th...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat to Danielle Chew, a senior leader at ANZ and co-chair of the ANZ Whānau Network, an employee-led group transforming the experience of working parents inside one of Aotearoa’s biggest organisations.

Danielle shares her personal story of navigating motherhood, senior leadership, part-time work, caring responsibilities, and the very real juggle so many parents face. She opens up about raising two young daughters, becoming a primary carer for her grandmother, and the moment she realised workplaces must change if parents are going to thrive.

Toget...

In this episode, I chat with Michelle Allbon and Julia Bower, the powerhouse duo behind The Fractional Directory, a progressive platform redefining what leadership and productivity look like in today’s world of work.

Michelle and Julia share the story of how they met as new mums in an antenatal class and went on to build a global business helping leaders and companies embrace fractional work, a model that challenges the outdated 40-hour work week and creates new opportunities for parents, women, and top-tier talent to work differently.

Together, they unpack the cultural and structural ba...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat with Roam With Kids founder Renata Wiles to talk about the invisible work of parenting, financial fairness, and the conversations every couple needs to have before, during, and after becoming parents.

Renata shares how a lockdown pregnancy, one income, and the realities of raising two young kids inspired her to build Roam With Kids, an app helping parents find child-friendly cafés, playgrounds, walks and events across Aotearoa. But this episode goes much deeper than business.

We unpack everything from KiwiSaver gaps and shared fin...

In this episode, I chat with Nicola Raynes-Pene, Partner at KPMG, mother of three, and 2024 Part-Time Power Lister, about what it really takes to build a thriving senior-level career while working four days a week.

Nicola shares her story of burning out during the GFC, returning to Aotearoa, and reshaping her life and work rhythm to protect her health and her family. She opens up about how boundaries, allyship, and honesty with colleagues and clients have helped her succeed without sacrificing well-being.

We explore the deeper systems that fuel the motherhood penalty...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat with Josie from Play Based Pēpi to talk about the very real journey of parenting, relationships, and rediscovering who you are after kids.

Josie unpacks conversations she and her husband have had around parenting their three children and the work that goes on inside and outside of the home.

She shares the challenges, the laughter, the love, and the growth that comes from being a team.

We explore the mental load, the invisible work that often goes unseen, and the importance of...

In this episode, I chat with Jane Sweeney and Carolyn Kerr, co-founders of Anthem, one of New Zealand’s leading communications and marketing agencies.

Together, they unpack how they’ve built a purpose-led, family-first workplace that challenges industry norms and how flexible, trust-based leadership can help smash the motherhood penalty for good.

Jane and Carolyn share candid stories from their own careers, from being leading women in PR to raising families while leading major campaigns, and reveal how Anthem became a model for modern, human-centred business.

They talk...

Welcome to this bonus and unique episode where as part of the TVNZ documentary “The Motherhood Penalty TBC”, I interview Tāmati Rimene-Sproat. Well, in fact, Tāmati actually interviews me in advance of him becoming a first time dad. We talk about what his expectations are as he looks forward to becoming a dad, what kind of a dad he wants to be and he gets curious about how he might best support his partner.  Tāmati shares his memories of how hard his Dad worked for his family and how that role model has influenced him along with how...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat with Sophie Moskowitz, founder of Imperfect Parents, to unpack what it really means to parent in today’s world, without the pressure to be perfect.

Sophie shares how her experience as a mum of three and an early childhood teacher led her to create Imperfect Parents, an inclusive community offering antenatal classes, postnatal groups, and playgroups that focus on the well-being of parents, not just babies.

We explore the themes of equity at home, parental guilt, perfectionism, and the mental load of caregiving. We disc...

In this episode, I chat with Jane Wrightson, New Zealand’s Retirement Commissioner, to unpack how motherhood impacts women’s long-term financial security.

Jane shares her personal experience of becoming a mother in the 1990s without paid parental leave and highlights how policies like KiwiSaver, superannuation, and workplace flexibility directly shape women’s financial futures.

From the gender pay gap to the retirement savings gap, she explains why even short breaks from the workforce have long-lasting effects, and what families, employers, and policymakers can do to change the system.

This candid conversation blends policy...

In this episode of It’s Good To Talk, I chat with Emily Parks, marketing manager at the Dr. Libby Group and host of the Have It All podcast, about the realities of working parenthood, the messy middle of motherhood, and why honest conversations matter.

This candid conversation offers practical insights and gentle encouragement for parents navigating career, kids, and everything in between.

If you’ve ever felt like you should be doing it all, or wondered if anyone else feels the same, you’ll love this episode.

We speak about:

· The pre...

In this episode, I chat with Stephanie Pow, founder of Crayon, a startup on a mission to reduce financial stress in the moments that matter most. Crayon is best known for creating the New Zealand Parental Leave Register, which brings transparency to over 300 verified parental leave policies nationwide.

Stephanie shares the personal journey that inspired her to launch Crayon, and why even with a finance background, she found navigating the costs of parenthood unexpectedly challenging.

She explains how lack of transparency and support around parental leave can deepen the motherhood penalty and how better policies...

How often do dads get real about what’s going on in their heads?

In this episode, I sit down with Aidan Kyrke-Smith, founder of Dadventure, to unpack the often-unspoken world of fatherhood, masculinity, and the invisible mental load that dads carry.

From late-night worries to guilt around “who has it harder,” Aidan shares insights from years of working with dads who are desperate for deeper conversations, but don’t always feel they have permission to start them.

We speak about:

· Why the mental load of fatherhood is so rarely discussed.

· Th...

What would our workplaces and homes look like if caregiving was truly valued, shared, and supported?

In this thought-provoking episode, I sit down with Joe Consedine and Jess Stuart from Mobilise to unpack the invisible labour of caregiving, the systemic barriers that keep gender norms in place, and the opportunities we have to innovate for equity.

From the daily “mental load” of running a household, to the stigma men face when taking parental leave, this conversation challenges us to rethink what we reward in both professional and personal life.

Jess and Joe share thei...

Welcome to. It's Good to Talk. The podcast that equips working parents with the conversations they need to be having.

My name's Emma McClain. I'm an executive coach and I work exclusively with working parents.

I know for sure that working and having a family is hard. But I think the answer to real long-term sustainable change is talking.

So in this podcast, we're gonna shine a light on conversations that have mattered for my guests, the ones that they wish they'd had sooner, and the ones that have changed everything.

...

What are the conversations that truly make a difference for working parents?

In this episode of It’s Good to Talk, I turn the tables on Anna Johnstone, executive coach, founder of The Female Career, and host of the podcast of the same name.

Anna shares her journey from global corporate roles in Europe to returning home to New Zealand and building a business dedicated to lifting women up in their careers, and the conversations she wishes she’d had.

We speak about:

· The gritty, practical advice that helped Anna navigate life...

In this episode, I talk to Victoria Crockford, Project Director of the Coalition to End Women’s Homelessness, to shine a light on an issue too often hidden from view: the growing housing insecurity faced by women in Aotearoa New Zealand.

Victoria brings her wealth of experience across community housing, advocacy, the arts, and climate action to unpack the complex realities behind women’s homelessness.

She explains why older women, sole parents, and Māori women are disproportionately affected, and challenges the myths that homelessness is a “choice.”

This is not one of the conve...

In this episode, I talk to Dr. Amanda Sterling, Principal Director, award-winning consultant, and proud mum, to unpack her groundbreaking PhD research to help organisations remove systemic barriers and close gender pay gaps.

Amanda combines decades in corporate leadership development and culture change with work that is backed by data, driven by curiosity, and fuelled by a deep commitment to creating workplaces where women can thrive.

We speak about:

· Amanda’s personal story of returning to work post-parental leave, and how it led to her PhD

· The subtle ways bias and outd...

In this episode, Emma sits down with two of New Zealand’s 2024 Part-Time Power Listers: Emma Thompson and Liz Blythe.

Emma is a partner in PWC’s private business team and a chartered accountant with a passion for simplifying finance through technology. She supports privately owned businesses with virtual CFO services, finance function, transformation and general accounting and tax. Emma co-leads PWC’s women in business founder series championing woman-led businesses to connect, grow, and reach their goals.

Liz is a partner at Russell Mcveagh, heading up technology, digital, and strategic sourcing law practice in Auckla...

In this powerful conversation, I talk to Dr Ellen Joan Ford, who is terrifyingly ambitious about improving the working world for people and for organisations.

As a leader, researcher, military veteran, international speaker, TEDx speaker, facilitator, consultant and parent, Ellen draws on her research and practical experiences to drive organisational outcomes by enhancing inclusive leadership capabilities and workplace culture.

Ellen shares what she learned about leadership, identity and inclusion over more than a decade in the New Zealand Army, including the double standards mothers face, how bias shows up in both obvious and subtle ways...

In this powerful conversation, I am joined by Kimberlee Sweeney, certified divorce and co-parenting coach and founder of Degrees of Separation, to unpack how separation and divorce can amplify the motherhood penalty — and what you can do to protect yourself emotionally, legally and financially.

Kimberlee shares her expert insight from a decade in the field, explaining how divorce coaching works, what co-parenting support really looks like, and the critical decisions mothers need to make before, during, and after a relationship ends. She also breaks down how the Aotearoa Divorce and Separation Institute (ADSI) is setting ethical standards fo...

In this insightful conversation, I am joined by the brilliant Nicole Retter, founder of PAM, Personal Admin Manager, an app built to ease the mental load for overwhelmed parents.

We unpack the invisible labour of parenthood and why the default parent trap isn’t just unfair, but completely unsustainable

We talk about the emotional toll, the cognitive overload, and the system-wide shift we could make if we stopped pretending that flexibility is a “perk” only mothers need.

This is an episode that goes beyond complaining. It’s about redesigning.

We speak about:<...

In this powerful conversation, I am joined by the brilliant Rachel Carrell, CEO and Founder of Koru Kids, an innovative childcare provider operating in 10 cities in the UK.

Rachel shares the story of how Koru Kids came to be (spoiler: it wasn’t built in 18 months), the brutal reality of childcare systems around the world, and why the motherhood penalty is not a personal budgeting problem, but a structural failure.

From shift-working nurses to after-school pickup logistics, Rachel unpacks the real-world ripple effects of underfunded childcare and unequal parental leave, including what it costs women’s ca...

We love talking to people who are trying to smash the system and Haylee Killip is one of these people. A business that was born out of the struggle of a corporate career and the juggle of being a parent. And specifically finding childcare that was flexible. She tried everything when she was a new mum and could not find what she needed.  Whether it was an extra pair of hands so she could work in the other room at home, or someone to provide care for a sick child so she could deliver a key client meeting or e...

In this special episode we talk to Katherine Cornish and Vanessa Simons (both from Fisher Funds) about their experiences as single parents. To share their reflections on the motherhood penalty and how they would change the system. To understand the challenges that might be different and what some of the solutions are that help.  Both Katherine and Vanessa become solo parents under different circumstances and they courageously share their stories with us. They share them in a real and unfiltered way which I know so many listeners will find comfort in. We talk about hard things including grief, choices a...

It is not often that you get to talk to an international author and accomplished practitioner in tackling harmful gender norms and promoting positive social change. But in this episode we do as we are talking to Kate Mangino, PhD. Kate is the author of Equal Partners: Improving Gender Equality at Home, which addresses the social norms that underpin household gender inequality - and offers practical advice as to what each of us can do to change them. (Yes, part of our gender problem is structural, which requires policy change. But much of our gender problem is social – which re...

This is a unique episode where we take a little pulse check on where we are with The Motherhood Penalty with Prue Tyler and Tania Domett. I started this podcast in September 2023 to start conversations about smashing the system that creates the motherhood penalty. In this episode we talk about how far we have come, we talk about who is carrying the light and of course - what they would use their magic wand for!

Prue Tyler is the director of Shift Advisory and Shift Compliance. Shift is all about normalizing flexible working and part-time working primarily...

I dedicated my entire second season to Dads as they are a key part of the puzzle when it comes to gender equity. So when I came across some research on Dads that was entitled: “Passenger parenting, role conflict and guilt: the transition to parenthood from new and experienced fathers” - I got very excited. 

And that is where Norma Barrett enters - Norma is one of the co-authors of this research and I was so lucky to get time with her to discuss her findings.  Originally from Cork in Ireland, she now lives in Australia and is a l...