International Enneagram Association Podcast

Suzanne Zuercher, who studied under Claudio Naranjo, reads Thomas Merton's inner world as a Type Four—from a childhood photo showing his withdrawn stance to his lifelong struggle with a false self. She traces how Merton's narcissism and obsessive self-observation became the exact tools that let him write about prayer and contemplation with such precision, and why humility was the only way out of the Four's compulsive search for meaning.

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Sandra Maitri studied with Claudio Naranjo starting in 1970, shortly after Naranjo returned from Arica, Chile and began teaching the Enneagram. She later apprenticed with A.H. Almas (Hamid Ali) and teaches the Diamond Approach. In this episode, Sandra distinguishes between the Enneagram of Personality—the fixations, passions, and defensive subtypes—and the Objective Enneagrams: the Holy Ideas and virtues that reveal enlightened consciousness. She walks through all nine points, mapping each passion (laziness, anger, lust, deception, pride, envy, gluttony, avarice, fear) to its corresponding virtue (action, serenity, innocence, veracity, humility, equanimity, sobriety, non-attachment, courage). Her core point: when you iden...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to Terry Sericino speak about the three domains of transformation: spirituality (receptivity to what's greater), psychology (loosening type patterns), and somatics (nervous system healing). Terry Sericino walked away from a telecom career in 1989 to follow the Enneagram, studying with Helen Palmer, Don Riso, and Claudio Naranjo, then apprenticing for 20+ years with Diamond Heart teacher Dean Shank. But in 2006, deep depression revealed a gap: spiritual practice and therapy couldn't touch the birth trauma patterned into her nervous system. A session with Raymond Castellino and Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing changed...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we go back in time to the first International Enneagram Conference in 1994 and listen as Julia Twomey-Davie presents her dissertation that links Dr. Jerry Wagner’s Enneagram to Carol Pearson's 12 Heroic Archetypes – the first empirical study to test both systems together. She tested 185 adults with five psychological instruments – Wagner Enneagram Personality Style Scales, Pearson's Heroic Myth Index, the Barron Scale from the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, Spielberger State-Trait Anxiety Inventory, and the Marlowe–Crowne Social Desirability Scale – to produce the hypothesis that the 12 archetypes function like a periodic table of psychologi...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to conversations with Melissa Davis, Carmel Buckley and Caryn Berley as they describe how the Enneagram taught them compassion and why type labels are just a starting point, not an ending place. Melissa shares how the Enneagram has taught her to appreciate others for their patterns and how they show up. And Caryn talks about her journey of being a Type Nine and the constant pull between needing solitude and connection with others. Carmel doesn’t work in the Enneagram space, but she discusses why she’s pushing for...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Leslie Hershberger speaks with Maria Beesing, co-founder of the IEA and co-author of “The Enneagram: A Journey of Self-Discovery,” which was published in 1984. Maria reflects on four decades teaching the Enneagram and its main purpose to know one’s own type. She talks about the evolution of her own understanding of this tool, which continues to broaden and deepen, and the shift she has noticed for more inclusivity in the last 35 years. She also discusses what she hopes for the next generation, which is to know themselves and trust their creato...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to brief conversations with Karen & Sarah Carlsen, Jakob Florentz Horn and Mettstine Hattesen, and Caryn Berley.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

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Seth "Creek" Creekmore:

IG: @_creekmore

Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast

Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast

Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B

Lindsey Marks:

IG: @lindseyfaithdm

Pod: Fathoms...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to the second part of a conversation led by Laura Baker, Jack Killen and the late-David Daniels, who are part of The Brain Group – a collaboration consisting of Laura, Jack, David, Denise Daniels and Dan Siegel. Jack talks about the Enneagram Prison Project with researcher Laura Baker, Susan Olesek researcher Laura Baker, Susan Olesek (EPP founder), and program ambassadors Alex Senegal and Thomas Papa. This research and development project uses the Enneagram to inspire transformation. As they explore the project’s real results, they ask how they can meas...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to short conversations with Julius Rainey & Nicole Rainey, Elmarie Roberts and Wendy Miller.

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Web: internationalenneagram.org

IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: [email protected]

Seth "Creek" Creekmore:

IG: @_creekmore

Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast

Pod: Awareness to Action Enneagram Podcast

Pod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. B

Lindsey Marks:

IG: @lindseyfaithdm

Pod: Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast<...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to the first part of a discussion with Laura Baker, Jack Killen and the late-David Daniels as they talk about The Brain Group – a collaboration with Laura, Jack, David, Denise Daniels and Dan Siegel – and the model they’ve developed called Patterns of Developmental Processing. The human brain and the mind operate in the world by looking and seeing for patterns, making assumptions based on those patterns, and then motivating actions on that basis. These five researchers bring their own perspective to discuss how the Enneagram might develop over s...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to storybooth interviews with Ginger Lapid Bogda, Sharon K. Ball, Lucille Greeff, Andisiwe Mketo and Valerie Tih. Sharon and Ginger talk about the evolution of their relationship from mentor-mentee to friends and what they have learned from each other. Lucille Greeff and Andisiwe Mketo interview each other about the future of the Enneagram, sharing the importance of learning from people with different cultures and perspectives to ensure that the Enneagram community is fully global. And lastly, Valerie Tih discusses why the Enneagram is valuable for parents to become...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, A.H. Almaas, a spiritual leader and founder of the Ridwan School and the Diamond Approach to Self-Realization, discusses the interconnection between psychology and spirituality within the Enneagram. Rather than treating these as separate parallel processes, Almas explains how the Enneagram reveals them as two inseparable facets of the same consciousness. He explores the Enneagram’s nine holy ideas, emphasizing that understanding the holy ideas represents a shift in perspective that transforms how we perceive ourselves, others, and reality itself.

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E72: Story Booth: Marion Gilbert, Lee Fields, Elizabeth & Laurel Nesbit, & Patty Nelson

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to brief conversations that were recorded at last year's Enneagram Experience. Lee Fields chats with her teacher, Marion Gilbert, about somatics and the Enneagram. Creek speaks with sisters, Elizabeth and Laurel Nesbit, about their relationship and how they've supported each other. Patty Nelson shares with Drew how the Enneagram has helped her regulate her nervous system.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to a panel led by Michael Naylor, Anne Geary and Renée Siegel about utilizing the Enneagram with 12-step recovery work. They share their personal journeys with Al-Anon and addiction recovery and how the Enneagram helped them along the way. They explain how the Enneagram map helps individuals understand their unique patterns while engaging with the 12 steps, exploring the intersection of somatic practice, heart-centered healing, and cognitive work across the three centers.

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IEA Enneagram E...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to conversations from three small groups that attended last year’s IEA Conference in Minneapolis. We hear how each group met through the Enneagram – many of them meeting in person for the first time at the conference. Sara Moore and Tamra Evangelista discuss how they help each other navigate being Type Threes. David Schultz and Ali McGhee share their first impressions of the IEA conference and how they think the Enneagram can change people’s lives. The Soul Sisters – that include Ann Wellman, Susan Hansch, Amy McCabe, Lisa Herman –...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Flemming Christensen returns to share what he’s been working on recently.

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Web: internationalenneagram.org

IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: [email protected]

Flemming Christensen:

Web: flemmingchristensen.com

Trainings: flemmingchristensen.com/training

The Enneagram Life Theme: flemmingchristensen.com/enneagram-life-theme.html

Book: “The Enneagram and why your blind type matters”

IG: @flemmingchristensencom

FB: Flemming Christensen

LinkedIn: Flemming Christensen

S...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to story booth interviews with Stephen Cunnell, Jason Chow, Jill DePompei-Morales and Raulin Morales. Stephen shares how the Enneagram helped him through a tough period in his life, while Jason discusses how he centers into his heart space rather than his gut energy. Jill and Raulin interview each other to explore what they’ve learned from watching each other grow and how they complete each other with different lenses and perspectives.

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Web: internationalenneagram.org

IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Russ Hudson, author and one of the top teachers from The Enneagram Institute. We go beyond his prolific history with the Enneagram and learn more about Russ as a person. In this philosophical conversation, Russ shares how the core principles of humility, curiosity and gratitude can help us live a more conscious and kind life in the face of the difficulties that life inevitably brings us. He digs deep into what it means to be human and how the Enneagram ties with that so that we can...

E66: Story Booth: Michael Naylor, Aaron Manes & Patty Anderson

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to brief interviews with Michael Naylor, Aaron Manes and Patty Anderson. Michael reminisces on his first time attending the IEA Conference and shares what it’s like being an Enneagram Type Four. Aaron talks about his spiritual journey with the Enneagram and Patty discusses why she feels she can be the best person in the world if she simply loves herself.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.co...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Ahmad Wazir and Adelaida Harrison speak with Doug Lynam, an investment advisor and author of the book, “Taming Your Money Monster: 9 Paths to Money Mastery with the Enneagram.” Doug shares his motivation to help people heal their relationship with money through the lens of the Enneagram. He explains the framework he developed to help people with money and how knowing your Enneagram type helps us overcome the money monster that hinders our financial health.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com<...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to storybooth interviews with Mickey Scott-Bey Jones, Mario Sikora, Sam E. Greenburg, Lyndsey Fraser, Stephanie Sundborg and Julie Ellis. Micky and Mario interview each other about their approach in teaching the Enneagram. Sam and Lyndsey talk about their friendship that goes beyond the Enneagram, and we hear about the working relationship between Stephanie and Julie.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: [email protected]

Micky ScottBey Jones:

...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Mario Sikora, an executive coach and pioneer of the practical application of the Enneagram. Mario has worked with global organizations and is the creator of the Awareness to Action Enneagram approach. We take a deep dive into Mario’s background with the Enneagram that expands to over 25 years. He shares what it was like to learn about the Enneagram in ‘90s without the internet and his early applications of the model that led to his direct and no nonsense approach he is known for.

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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to story booth interviews with Jeanie Brandes, Scott and Clare Loughrige with Jerry Wagner and Kate Jackson. Jeanie shares her journey with the Enneagram and discusses the importance of community. We hear that it took Kate three years to determine her type, but the Enneagram has helped anchor herself during a crisis. Prolific Enneagram teacher Jerry shares why he teaches with humor while Scott and Clare, who have studied under him, reveal their deep gratitude to him.

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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we continue our ongoing conversation with Flemming Christensen, founder and owner of Think About It and The Enneagram Institute of Denmark. Flemming dives more into his theory on the blind type and explores how we can use the Enneagram as a model of points, seeing qualities as skills that can be developed.

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Web: internationalenneagram.org

IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: [email protected]

Seth "Creek" Creekmore:

IG: @_creekmore

Pod...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to story booth conversations with Sam Michel Kopterski, Doug Lyman and Hillary Stark. These brief interviews explore their introduction to the Enneagram and how it has played in their professional and personal life. Sam discusses how the Enneagram helped her see her type patterns more clearly while Hillary shares how it brought some healing to her and her husband. We also hear how Doug went from the Marine Corps to becoming a monk to then becoming an investment advisor and author of the book, “Taming Your Money Monster: 9 Pa...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Dr. Jerome “Jerry” Wagner and Patrick O’Leary, two pioneers in the Enneagram field. Patrick is a founding member of the IEA and co-author of the first Enneagram book, and Jerry is the author of the “Enneagram Spectrum of Personality Styles: an Introductory Guide” and an honorary founder of the IEA. This conversation dives into the rich history of the Enneagram as a tool, a model and an organization through these teachers’ individual and collective stories.

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IEA Enneag...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to brief conversations with Lindsay Bailey, Mateo Myrvik, Josie Shardlow, Jeannine Myrvik and Nikki Meyers. Lindsay shares how the Enneagram helps her understand her husband, while Mateo, Josie and Jeannine share how the Enneagram plays a role in their family life. Nikki talks about her experience as a first time attendee to the conference and some memories from training by Dr Jerome “Jerry” Wagner.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: administration@inte...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Renée Rosario and Christopher T. Copeland from the Narrative Enneagram. Renée and Christopher share their history with the Enneagram and how it led them to work at the Narrative Enneagram where they became colleagues and friends. More importantly, they reflect on their trips of walking Camino de Santiago together where they developed their deep friendship, which is present throughout the conversation.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join the email list: administration@in...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we hear brief conversations with Rosemary Hurwitz, Demetrius Parker and The Engagement Committee that consists of Linda Meffert, Sarah McMahill, Roland Legge and Nancy Markow. Rosemary and Demetrius share their origin story with the Enneagram and reflect on the Enneagram community today. We also learn how the Engagement Committee helps the people connect with each other at the conference and their motivation to do this work.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we speak with Russ Hudson and Lynda Roberts of The Enneagram Institute. We hear these two longtime friends and colleagues interact as they share their personal history with the Enneagram. We learn the vast differences that led them to become some of the founding members of the Enneagram. Russ talks about the creation of the IEA and becoming the first vice president for the organization. Lynda reveals some of the things that influence how she engages in the Enneagram, such as her time as a high school math teacher. With...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to storybooth interviews from Laura Lentz, Nancy Irish, Dr. Steven Jacob and Joey Jacob. These vignettes recorded at the 2025 IEA Experience present human stories from the dynamic Enneagram community. We hear what drew these four to the Enneagram and how it transformed their lives. Laura talks about her experience as a returning attendee while Nancy shares her hopes to make connections within the Enneagram community during her first time at the conference. Joey and Jacob chat with each other about the Enneagram, sharing their personal connection with Russ...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Seth “Creek” Creekmore, Lee Fields, Lindsey Marks and Seth Abram speak with Suzanne Stabile, an internationally recognized Enneagram Master who has conducted over 500 Enneagram workshops for over 30 years. As a first time attendee at the IEA Experience, Suzanne was one of the Enneagram Pioneers that participated in the Keynote Panel along with Russ Hudson, Anne Mureé and Micky ScottBey Jones. Suzanne is joined on this episode by her husband and son, Joe and Joel, as they reveal their story with the Enneagram–how they learned about it and has become woven i...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Seth “Creek” Creekmore, Lee Fields, Lindsey Marks and Seth Abram unpack their experience from the recent Enneagram Experience 2025. With the conference based around experience, they capture the human side of the legends and luminaries of the Enneagram community, including Suzanne Stabile, Russ Hudson, Dr. Jerry Wagner and Patrick O'Leary, highlighting more of who they are and how they relate as people rather than solely focusing on their contribution to the Enneagram. They also facilitated shorter conversational interviews with attendees at the conference that will also be shared in future episodes.

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to the Endnote presentation by Chichi Agorom from the IEA Global Conference in 2023. Chichi is a certified Enneagram teacher and practitioner, Associate Faculty with the Narrative Enneagram, and holds a Master of Arts in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and a Post-Master's Certificate in Marriage and Family Therapy. Drawing from the theme of the conference–Unite and Ignite–she discusses how the Enneagram can be used as a tool for our collective liberation, drawing from her book, “The Enneagram for Black Liberation.” She explores how motivation behind our behavior and cont...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Seth “Creek” Creekmore and Ahmad Wazir continue their conversation with Flemming Christensen, founder and owner of Think About It and The Enneagram Institute of Denmark. They talk more about his book, “The Enneagram and why your blind type matters,” and his approach to the Enneagram. He highlights shadow work, which illuminates what we are not aware of about ourselves, and explores it within each Enneagram type. He also discusses the distinction between primary type and blind type.

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IEA Enneagra...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, Seth “Creek” Creekmore and Ahmad Wazir speak with Flemming Christensen, founder and owner of THINK ABOUT IT and The Enneagram Institute of Denmark, about his work with the Enneagram. In this first part of the conversation, we get to know Flemming as he shares stories from his early career, the loss of loved ones, and his discovery of what he calls the “blind type.”

Enneagram Trainings

Throughout the conversation, Flemming reflects on how his relationship with the Enneagram has evolved - from using it a...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we continue listening to Gina Thomas’s presentation about her study that studies the archetypes and their connections with the Enneagram. Gina is an Enneagram teacher who bridges the field with depth psychology, which studies myth, dream and symbol as a way to understand the psyche and she conducted four interviews with 13 focus groups, asking the participants to illustrate their type. She explores the transcendent function for Enneagram Types Six, Three and Four by interpreting each participant’s drawings.

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In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to a presentation by Gina Thomas, MA, an Enneagram teacher who bridges the field with depth psychology, which studies myth, dream and symbol as a way to understand the psyche. Gina talks about her study that studies archetypes and their connections with the Enneagram through her four interviews with 13 focus groups. She initially focused on Enneagram Types Three, Six and Nine for her master’s thesis and then continued her research on the remaining types after she received her degree. She shares the imagery she asked the participants to...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we continue Lisa Morrice’s discussion about the passions by looking at the qualities from the thinking center. This center is about being present in our mind and having the awareness to be mentally still and receptive to insight, intuition and not knowing. Lisa talks about three ways the essential qualities of this center can manifest when they’re present and also the four principles for transforming the passions.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Join...

In this episode of the International Enneagram Association podcast, we listen to a talk from Lisa Morrice about the passions—a recurring emotional pattern associated with our personality types. When we’re not aware of them, they run us pretty much all the time, making us forget ourselves on a fundamental level. Lisa explains how it helps to understand the passions from the three centers by looking at the qualities. She also discusses how the passions play out in each type.

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IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.com

Jo...