Sunday School Dropouts

In the season 4 premiere, we dive into Jason Stanley's book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, covering chapters 1 through 5. We explore how the same dynamics many of us experienced in high-control religion — the mythic past, propaganda, anti-intellectualism, unreality, and hierarchy — show up in fascist political movements, and why recognizing the overlap matters right now.

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Resources discussed in this episode: 

How Fa...

Last week the post religious/faith deconstruction community was faced with a loss of a voice and advocate in Ryan (RL) Stollar. Ryan’s death has opened up conversations that go beyond just this moment and are causing people to reflect and reconsider grief, humanity, and the complexity of life. In today’s episode, Andrew and Laura discuss some of the themes they have observed in social media spaces, their coaching sessions, and between friends and colleagues.

While this episode will not be focusing on the specifics of Ryan’s death, we will be discussing sensitive topics such a...

In this season finale of Sunday School Dropouts, Laura and Andrew look back on a landmark season dedicated to unpacking the pervasive and lingering effects of purity culture. Reflecting on what they learned, what surprised them, and where they find hope, Laura and andrew explore how these rigid teachings extend far beyond sexual ethics into daily struggles with body image, diet culture, adult friendships, and social media dynamics. A central focus of the episode examines the connection between neurodivergence and high-control religious systems, drawing on insights from their interview with Michelle Moseley to explain why individuals with ADHD or...

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, host Andrew Kerbs is joined by memoirist and ex-Adventist advocate Melissa Duge Spiers to discuss her book, Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows. Melissa shares the incredible twenty-year journey of bringing her story to publication, including a decade where the manuscript sat untouched and the hurdles she faced with major publishers due to legal anxieties surrounding the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The conversation dives into the unique invisibility of the ex-Adventist community compared to groups like ex-Mormons, exploring the deep cultural conditioning that keeps these stories...

Let’s talk about sex, baby! Today sex educator and creator of the Purity Culture Dropout brand and services, Erica Smith, joins us to talk about sex, comprehensive sex education and resources if you’re needing some remedial sex education after abstinence only or purity culture “sex education”. We’ll also be sharing some prayer requests, answering listener questions and generally having a holy time!

Resources mentioned on the podcast: 

Holy Hurt Podcast series by Dr. Hillary McBride

Erica Smith:

Website: https://www.ericasmitheac.com/

IG: @ericasmith.sex.ed

This p...

On today’s episode of Sunday School Dropouts we will be talking to Cody Harman, a certified fitness coach and nutritionist! Cody shares his story of growing up within evangelicalism and purity culture being socialized female, coming out and transitioning. Cody’s lets us in on his process of healing from the shame and harm that was caused by high control religion and offers encouragement and hope on the journey of healing. You can find Cody at the following places:

• Instagram: @mrcoachcody_scoobyprep

• TikTok: @mrcoachcody

• Facebook: Cody Harman

• Twitter: @mrcoachcody

YouTube Ch...

In this episode, Laura is joined by Dan Miller for his fifth visit to the show to dissect the complex intersections of modern masculinity and religious extremism. Using Senator Josh Hawley's book as a primary case study, the discussion explores why certain conservative movements choose the biblical figure of Adam over Jesus as their primary archetype for manhood. This shift reflects a broader desire for a dominant alpha male figure that aligns more closely with imperial power than the humble and sacrificial themes found in the Gospels. The conversation examines how this ideological framework feeds into a larger pipeline...

In this deep dive into the Hulu phenomenon The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, host Laura is joined by licensed marriage and family therapist Ashley Buckner to peel back the layers of drama and reveal the complex psychological machinery underneath. The duo explores how the Mormon influencer pipeline was born from a culture of polished aesthetics and public testimony, and why the sudden shift in financial power—where women become primary breadwinners in patriarchal households—creates such volatile relational friction. From the Momtok aesthetic to the systemic roots of oversharing, this episode examines how religious conditioning prepares women for the...

In this deep dive into the Hulu phenomenon The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, host Laura is joined by licensed marriage and family therapist Ashley Buckner to peel back the layers of drama and reveal the complex psychological machinery underneath. The duo explores how the Mormon influencer pipeline was born from a culture of polished aesthetics and public testimony, and why the sudden shift in financial power—where women become primary breadwinners in patriarchal households—creates such volatile relational friction. From the Momtok aesthetic to the systemic roots of oversharing, this episode examines how religious conditioning prepares women for the...

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, Andrew and Laura deconstruct the complex intersection of high control religion and the controversial labels of sex and porn addiction. They explore how purity culture utilizes shame-based language and abstinence-only messaging to pathologize normal sexual development, often through influential texts like Every Man’s Battle. The discussion clarifies that neither the DSM nor the WHO recognizes sex addiction as a clinical diagnosis. Instead, the hosts look at Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder through a scientific lens, focusing on impulse control and the nervous system rather than moral failure. By examining how these behaviors of...

In this episode, Andrew is joined by writer and editor Halley Kim to explore the profound intersection of theology, patriarchy, and personal agency. As a former pastor’s wife within conservative Evangelicalism, Halley shares her journey of moving beyond simple theological deconstruction to dismantle the power structures that once defined her life and marriage. Together, they discuss the dehumanizing effects of purity culture and the "anti-knowing" messages that discourage women from trusting their own intuition. Halley offers a unique perspective on the professional and personal costs of questioning the status quo while navigating the slow, redemptive process of building a...

In this episode, we're joined by Nicole Clifton, a coach specializing in faith deconstruction, purity culture trauma, and chronic illness support. Nicole shares her personal journey navigating chronic pain for nearly 20 years while growing up in evangelical Christianity. We explore the often-overlooked connection between purity culture and chronic health conditions, discussing how high-control religious environments create constant hypervigilance and stress that can manifest as long-term physical symptoms. Nicole explains how messages about ignoring bodily signals, maintaining perfectionism, and living in perpetual fear of making mistakes kept her disconnected from her body's wisdom for years.

The conversation dives...

In the conclusion of this two-part series, Andrew and Laura reunite with therapists Julia Postema and Jeremiah Gibson to reveal how purity culture reaches far beyond the bedroom. The conversation pulls back the curtain on the "Internal Panopticon," exploring how religious conditioning manifests as perfectionism, decision-making paralysis, and the compulsive emotional caretaking often found in high-control environments.

The guests discuss how these evangelical patterns are frequently replicated in progressive spaces and social media "call-out" cultures, where rigid performance often replaces human nuance. By shifting from a fixed mindset of "right vs. wrong" to one of growth and...

In the first half of a compelling two-part series, Andrew and Laura are joined by sex therapists and researchers Julia Postema and Jeremiah Gibson to unpack the enduring grip of purity culture. Moving beyond simple deconstruction, the conversation explores how high-control religious environments leave lasting "body memories" that manifest as sexual pain, orgasm gaps, and anxious attachment patterns decades later. From the political "Industrial Complex" of the 1990s to the modern-day "manosphere" and wellness culture, Julia and Jeremiah blend clinical data with raw personal vulnerability to illustrate why cognitive shifts aren't always enough to heal the nervous system. This...

In Part 2 of their conversation with licensed marriage and family therapist Ashley Buckner, the Sunday School Dropouts crew explores the deeper psychological and therapeutic impact of Mormon purity culture. Ashley shares clinical insights into how LDS structures such as worthiness interviews, the Law of Chastity, and confession culture shape a person’s relationship with their body, sexuality, and sense of autonomy. Drawing from both her professional work and personal experience growing up in an unorthodox Mormon community, Ashley discusses the lasting effects purity culture can have on survivors of childhood sexual abuse, including shame cycles, anxiety, disembodiment, and difficulty tr...

In this first of a two part conversation on Sunday School Dropouts, Andrew Kerbs and Laura Anderson sit down with Ashley Buckner, LMFT, to explore her journey growing up in an unorthodox Mormon home in Cedar City, Utah, and the lasting impact of purity culture and childhood sexual abuse. Ashley shares what it was like to grow up in a “less than” Mormon family with a Catholic father prior to his baptism, the pressure to perform worthiness, and the shame of being born to parents who were pregnant before marriage. She reflects on how purity culture shaped her understanding of h...

What happens when purity culture and diet culture collide? In this episode, Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs sit down with writer Ashley Dunston to unpack the complicated overlap between evangelical theology, fat phobia, and body shame. Ashley shares her story of growing up in Colorado Springs during the peak of 1990s and early 2000s purity messaging, navigating intense pressure to present a “perfect” family image, and being pushed into gastric bypass surgery at just 19 years old. After losing 100 pounds in a year, she faced not only the physical consequences but the emotional and spiritual fallout that followed.

Toge...

This month we are talking about purity culture and its impact on individuals who grew up male in this system. We are thrilled to have Dr. Bradley Onishi on the podcast today as our professional who has done research on purity culture and client-facing work in this area as well as being a purity culture poster boy himself. Join Brad and Laura as they discuss the unique impacts of purity culture on men, shame, the expectations of being a “Godly man” and what happens when you don’t measure up to that, as well as the importance of men learni...

In this episode, Reverend Brandan Robertson joins Sunday School Dropouts for a deeply honest conversation about growing up queer in the church, surviving purity culture, and finding a faith that no longer requires self-erasure. Brandan shares his journey from a fundamentalist Baptist background through Moody Bible Institute, including repeated discipline for asking hard questions and his experience with conversion therapy, and how those moments ultimately pushed him toward a more expansive and life-giving theology.

Together, we talk about the so-called “clobber passages,” why they’ve been misused to police LGBTQ+ people, how purity culture damages everyone it touche...

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, licensed clinical mental health counselor Michelle Moseley joins Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs to explore the intersection of purity culture and neurodivergence. Michelle shares why rigid religious systems can initially feel safe for neurodivergent people while ultimately causing deep harm through shame, masking, and burnout. The conversation offers insight into why healing often looks less like fixing and more like rest, autonomy, and gently reconnecting with pleasure and self-trust.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

Find Michelle...

In this episode, Laura and Andrew sit down with Trisha Wilkerson to explore the powerful intersections between purity culture, diet culture, and body shame. Trisha shares her journey from 25 years in evangelical ministry at Mars Hill Church to becoming a trauma-informed nutrition coach helping people heal their relationship with food and their bodies.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

Guest Info: 

Website: Personal Website: www.trishawilkerson.com. Business: www.theaftermathagency.com

Social Media: IG: @trisharwilkerson

Book: Everyday Worship: O...

Dan Miller is back, and this time we are talking about the side of purity culture that almost never gets center stage: how it messes with men. While purity culture is usually framed around controlling women’s bodies and desires, Dan helps us unpack how men and those socialized as male are shaped by shame, fear, and some wildly unhealthy expectations. From being taught they are inherently dangerous to being trapped in rigid ideas of masculinity, this conversation looks at how purity culture limits emotional range, intimacy, and even basic self understanding long after people have deconstructed the theology.

Lauren Elise Rogers, certified holistic sexuality educator and embodied intimacy coach, shares her powerful journey from wedding night virgin in a high-control religious environment to becoming a leading voice in sexual health and relationship coaching. This conversation explores the lasting impacts of purity culture and practical pathways to reclaiming agency, pleasure, and authentic intimacy.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

Connect with Lauren: 

Website: www.sexedforyou.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sexedforyou

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/s...

The Sunday School Dropouts are back with another episode of answering your questions about religious trauma and the holidays. Many of the questions today centered around finding new traditions post-religion, dealing with family members who don’t understand why you won’t go to church, and how to navigate co-parenting around this time of year when one person has left the church and the other hasn’t. Plus, Andrew and Laura are at it again with another holiday quiz game and sharing some of their own stories of how they celebrated the holidays as they deconstructed. 

This podcast...

It’s the most wonderful time of the year…or is it? The Sunday School Dropouts are taking on your questions today about all things having to do with religious trauma and the holidays! How do you set boundaries with your family that is still in church? Can you tell your emotionally immature family members that they are emotionally immature? Is it ok to tell your kids that you don’t trust churches and religious doctrine anymore? All these questions (and more!) will be answered today. And, you’ll also get to see who wins at holiday jeopardy between Andrew a...

Laura and Andrew sit down with therapist and healing guide Elizabeth DeVaughn for a powerful conversation about what it really takes to move through trauma and come home to yourself. Elizabeth shares pieces of her own story, including the experiences that led her into this work, and opens up about the practices and principles that help people rebuild self trust after years of shame, fear, or being told to disconnect from their own bodies.

They talk about how self awareness and self compassion become the foundation of healing, why so many of our patterns are rooted in...

Laura turns the tables and interviews her cohost, Andrew Kerbs, for an honest and often tender look at what it was like to grow up male in purity culture. Andrew shares stories from his childhood in both the Mormon church and the Seventh day Adventist tradition, unpacking how ideas about worthiness shaped everything from his family dynamics to his sense of self. Together they explore the quiet pressures boys and men face in high control religions, including secrecy around sexuality, the fear of being found out, and the shame that comes from never feeling good enough.

The...

Andrew and Laura sit down with Sherah Pettus from the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery for a real, heartfelt look at how purity culture keeps shaping our bodies, sexuality, and sense of worth long after we leave high control religion. Sherah brings her own story and a liberation-focused perspective to the conversation as they unpack everything from shame and sexual identity to raising kids with autonomy and consent instead of fear.

The episode is full of listener questions, honest reflections, and practical tools for reconnecting with your body, rebuilding self trust, and healing from purity culture’s...

Andrew and Laura hang out with yoga therapist and somatic practitioner Kim June Johnson for a really grounding and honest conversation about what it actually looks like to heal purity culture wounds through Eastern practices. Kim shares her story of leaving evangelicalism, discovering yoga and breathwork, and slowly learning to trust her body again after years of shame and control. They talk about how Western religion often teaches people that they are broken at the core, while Eastern traditions start from the idea that people are already whole and worthy.

Kim also walks through the chakra system...

Andrew and Laura welcome trauma professional and theologian Willow Sipling for an unflinching look at purity culture within the Catholic Church and beyond. Together they dig into how teachings on chastity, celibacy, and confession shape shame, control, and sexuality, especially for LGBTQ+ people navigating doctrines that label desire as “disordered.” The conversation balances honest critique with hope, exploring how survivors of religious trauma can move from rigid rules to pleasure-focused, care-centered ethics that embrace both body and spirit.

Through listener stories, personal reflections, and theological insights, the trio confronts how purity culture continues to haunt relationships, faith, and...

Andrew and Laura sit down with Dr. Bethany Peake, a trauma-informed counselor and spiritual director at the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery, for a raw, thoughtful, and surprisingly hopeful conversation about what happens when patriarchy shapes your idea of God. They dig into how purity culture, control, and the “male gaze of the divine” mess with people’s sense of self, spirituality, and relationships—and how that damage can be undone.

Dr. Peake brings deep expertise and compassion as she unpacks how attachment theory helps explain our spiritual development, why our “God image” matters, and how healing begi...

Andrew flips the script and interviews his co-host, Dr. Laura Anderson, for a raw and honest conversation about growing up in purity culture, how it shaped her relationships and self-worth, and what it took to heal after surviving domestic violence. They talk about the messy mix of high-control religion, gender roles, shame, and the long (and sometimes funny) road to finding freedom and feeling at home in your own body again.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

“Why Does He Do That? Inside the Mi...

Hosts Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs sit down with trauma-informed coach and therapist Terri Allred from the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery to unpack how purity culture fuels domestic violence, particularly during Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Terri draws on decades of experience supporting survivors of sexual and spiritual abuse to explain how purity teachings often spiritualize control, suppress autonomy, and normalize submission—creating fertile ground for abuse to thrive. The conversation dives into the emotional, psychological, and spiritual dimensions of violence within fundamentalist spaces, highlighting how isolation, financial control, and misuse of religious authority often go unnoticed or un...

This week, Andrew and Laura welcome the brilliant and hilarious Katherine Spearing—author, practitioner, and founder of Tears of Eden—to talk about everyone’s favorite church obsession: purity culture. You know, that special brand of shame that told you your worth was tied to your virginity and your shoulders were a stumbling block. Katherine unpacks how that messaging messed with an entire generation’s view of sex, self-worth, and spirituality—and how she’s helping survivors heal from it.

They dive into Katherine’s upcoming book, A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts, the “stay-at-home daughter” movement, and the ways spiritual...

Season 3 of Sunday School Dropouts is here, and this time it’s all about purity culture—its origins, its lasting impact, and the process of healing from it. After a summer break, the hosts return ready to unpack one of the most pervasive and misunderstood aspects of modern religion. This season features a range of guests, including therapists, coaches, and individuals from Catholic, Mormon, and evangelical backgrounds, as well as voices from the LGBTQ+ and wellness communities. Together, they explore how purity culture shapes identity, sexuality, and self-worth, and what it means to unlearn those lessons without losing one’s fait...

In the season two finale of the Sunday School Dropouts podcast, Andrew and Laura recap their experiences and favorite episodes from the past season. They share personal anecdotes about the impact of high control religion on finances, trauma-informed therapy, and purity culture.

Laura and Andrew highlight significant episodes such as their conversation with Jo Luehmann about financial trauma and Angela Denker on American boyhood and radicalization. The hosts also discuss their summer plans, which include writing projects and potential future topics for the next season. The episode ends with a nod to future explorations of purity culture...

This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you didn’t, you’re sure to be familiar with Joshua Harris, author of the wildly popular Christian dating, ahem, courting, book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He’s here to share with us about his time inside of high contro...

What are Adverse Religious Experiences (AREs) and spiritual abuse? Aren’t they the same thing as religious trauma? Join Andrew and Laura on this week’s episode to discuss AREs, spiritual abuse, dynamics of power and control, how this relates to fundamentalism and how all of this…isn’t religious trauma? You heard us correctly!  Andrew and Laura discuss all of this AND how these things can result in religious trauma on this episode of Sunday School Dropouts!

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose pra...

In this episode, Laura and Andrew engage in a lively discussion with Janice Lagata about her experiences growing up in evangelicalism, her time at Hillsong College, and the importance of literature and financial therapy. They explore themes of banned books, free speech, and the influence of worship music on personal faith. The conversation is rich with insights and personal anecdotes, making it a compelling listen for anyone interested in the intersections of faith, culture, and personal growth.

In this conversation, Janice Lagata shares her journey from moving to New York and joining Hillsong to her struggles with...

Jo Luehmann shares her journey from being a pastor to deconstructing her faith, focusing on the financial challenges and mindsets that shaped her path. The episode also explores strategies for overcoming financial anxiety and reclaiming autonomy after leaving high-control religious settings.

Resources Mentioned:

Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel

Your First Million by Arlan Hamilton

Your Journey to Financial Freedom by Jamila Souffrant

Keeping Finance Personal by Ellyse Fulmore

We should all be millionaires Rachel Rodgers

The Art of Thinking Clearly by Rolf Debelli