The Other 22 Hours

GRAMMY-nominated songwriter Amythyst Kiah has performed with Moby and Billy Strings and is a member of the supergroup Our Native Daughters. She joins us for a startlingly honest look at the "farce of surface-level success." After a label debut and a whirlwind of global exposure, she found herself "barely hanging on for dear life" amidst the pressure of a rat race industry. We explore her journey to achieve detachment from outcomes, writing for sync licensing (film + TV) as a creative recharge, and the ancient wisdom that helped her trade the self-improvement doom loop for a slower, sustainable creative life.<...

James Victore is an Emmy Award-winning artist and author whose work is held in the permanent collection of the Louvre and has been exhibited many times at MoMA (NYC). Victore has shaped the visual language of institutions from 'The New York Times' to the City of New York. In this conversation, we explore the spiritual gravity of "staying in the pool" when creativity gets hard, discuss the incubation time of the soul, the environmental and creative toll of our want of ease, and the quiet, daily discipline of living consciously in a world designed to keep us asleep.

Singer-songwriter S.G. Goodman has earned critical acclaim, award nominations, and has worked with legends like Tyler Childers, Jason Isbell, and Jim James of My Morning Jacket. In this episode, we discuss the grueling physical and mental requirements of "making it." From working manual labor to stay afloat while not on the road to navigating the complex realities of running a bona fide business, S.G. opens up about scarcity, OCD, and the hard-won wisdom of learning to drive the lawnmower instead of letting it drive you.

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James Victore is an Emmy Award-winning artist and author, whose work is held in the permanent collection of the Louvre and has been on display many times at MoMA (NYC). He has shaped the visual language of institutions from The New York Times to the City of New York. In this conversation, we explore the spiritual gravity of "staying in the pool" when creativity gets hard, discuss the incubation time of the soul, the environmental and creative toll of our want of ease, and the quiet, daily discipline of living consciously in a world designed to keep us asleep.<...

5-time GRAMMY-nominee Hunter Hayes has spent his entire life on the national stage, from performing at the White House at age seven to sharing stadium spotlights with the likes of Stevie Wonder and Taylor Swift. Yet, behind the multi-platinum accolades was a realization that his professional development had far outpaced his personal life. In this episode, we explore the vulnerability of "growing up" in the public eye, the paralyzing fear of not being busy, and how a strict routine can actually provide the ultimate freedom to play. And, we chat about how starting from a place of love is...

Butch Walker has spent decades at the summit of the music industry, producing multi-platinum records for icons like Pink, Katy Perry, and Green Day while fronting his own high-energy solo tours. Yet, despite reaching that peak, he found himself "climbing the hill" so intently that he had forgotten to look at the view, leading to burnout and a desire to step back. In this conversation, we explore the courage required to dismantle an ego-driven path in favor of a soul-driven one, and finding unbridled joy in the simple act of being a "sponge" for new inspiration.

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Kathleen Edwards has been releasing records for over 20 years on labels such as Rounder and Dualtone, she is critically acclaimed by NPR, The New York Times, The New Yorker, and Rolling Stone, and has worked with Jason Isbell, Bon Iver, John Doe, Marren Morris. We talk to Kathleen about winning the lottery, quitting as an ego reset, why musicians are the bottom of the food chain, finishing on a positive, and a whole lot more.

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UMAW (the United Musicians and Allied Workers) is a labor organization that 'Aims to organize music workers to fight for a more just music industry and to join with other workers in the struggle for a better society.' Their campaigns include Fair Pay at SXSW, #MyMerch (raising awareness of venues taking an unfair cut), Justice at Spotify, and probably most prominently, The Living Wage For Musicians Act sponsored by Rep Rashida Tlaib in the US Congress currently. We talk with a representative from UMAW - Damon Krukowski (a working musician, and a founder of late 80's indie rocker...

Chely Wright has sold over 1.5 million records with 90s country anthems like "Single White Female" and "Shut Up and Drive," she released her landmark autobiography, "Like Me" in 2010, becoming the first mainstream country star to come out, and forcing open conversations about LGBTQ identity, after a 10 year absence she returned to The Opry in 2019, released another book 'My Moment' in 2022, and has since pivoted to the corporate world where she is now an SVP. We talk with Chely about this pivot and giving ourselves permission to innovate, consulting your 90 year old self, Ellen's brutally honest advice on losing it...

Jim Keller started in the music industry as part of Tommy Tutone, writing the hit '867-5309/Jenny', then the bands career sank and he left performing, landing as an assistant and then manager for Phillip Glass, Nico Muhly, Ravi Shankar, and others, before 'retiring' and returning to making music by hosting jam sessions with members of The Black Crowes, Levon Helm's band, The Beach Boys, The Wallflowers, The Lumineers, and more. We talk to Jim about the realities of 'crashing and burning', the business and creative divide, the power of honesty, knowing your role, showing up, and a...

Max Wanger is an LA-based photographer who has shot the likes of Taylor Swift, Mandy Moore, Blake Mills, Glen Hansard, Madison Cunningham and past guests of ours Lucius, The Watson Twins, and The Milk Carton Kids, as well as Conde Nast Traveler, Virgin Records, Vans, Nike and many many more. We talk to Max about listening to the lull, doing jobs that pay the bills while protecting play and soul in the work, imposter syndrome, admitting what you don’t know, and how vulnerability deepens community, the long arc of following what makes you happy, and so much more.

Raye Zaragoza has released 4+ records all independently, toured as Tigerlily in the Broadway touring version of Peter Pan (updated for indigenous representation by Native American playwright Larissa FastHorse), wrote the music for the Netflix series 'Spirit Rangers', and has placed songs in a substantial number of TV shows from Greys Anatomy to Station 19. We talk to Raye about the toxic hustle narrative in music and how to unlearn it, listening to your intuition vs. listening to the industry, decentralizing how you identify as an artist, running a successful and supportive Patreon community, and so much more.

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Kris Delmhorst has released 12+ records independently and via Signature Sounds, has written/performed and recorded with Mary Gauthier, Lori McKenna, Grant Lee Phillips, Peter Wolf (lead singer of J. Geils Band), and more, is critically acclaimed by The Boston Globe, LA Times, Pop Matters, and all your favorite songwriters, and has written for tv & film, as well as countless festivals all over the world. We talk with Kris about creative cycles, retreating, and the necessity of disappearing to make real art, trusting your career through slow seasons, motherhood versus touring, sustaining a two-songwriter household, reframing art as a service...

Will Hoge has released 13+ albums both independently and on major labels (Atlantic), has been nominated for Grammy, ACM, and CMA awards, and has toured with NEEDTOBREATHE, Jason Isbell, Lisa Loeb, Sugarland, Michelle Branch and others. We talk to Will about the emotional and professional fallout of writing politically charged songs, the role of parenting in shaping artistic courage and empathy, the difference between surviving the industry and making meaningful art, burnout, staying human, and a whole lot more.

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Malin Pettersen is a Norwegian singer-songwriter and Spellemannprisen winner (Norwegian Grammy), who has released multiple solo records as well as records with her band, Lucky Lips, has toured extensively throughout Europe and America, and has been acclaimed by Rolling Stone, Forbes, No Depression, Paste and even Iris Dement is a fan. We talk with Malin about the illusion of success, cultural duality between Norway and America, the Norwegian government's support for artists,  embracing uncertainty, doubt, and struggle, and so much more.

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Jillian Jacqueline has released 4+ records/EPs on both major and independent labels, she started performing at 8 years old, had a charting song at 12 (with Billy Dean and Suzie Bogguss), has worked with Vince Gill, Suzy Bogguss, Richard Marx, Keith Urban, and Shane McAnally, played the Grand Ole Opry, and toured all over the world. We talk to Jillian about redefining success, industry expectations, motherhood and artistry, maintaining integrity, building community, challenging your identity, and a whole lot more.

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Flyte are the British duo of songwriters Will Taylor and Nicolas Hill, who started creating together in grade school before signing to a major label (Island Records), leaving that for indie labels (Nettwerk), working with producers such as Ethan Johns, and collaborating with the likes of The Staves, Laura Marling, and Madison Cunningham. We talk with them about a lot of the inner workings of their songwriting practice and approach to record making, classic British emotional repression, coping, creative confusion, commodification, and a whole lot more.

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Lera Lynn has released 8+ records, written and recorded songs for True Detective (HBO) with T-Bone Burnett and Rosanne Cash (as well as being cast as a character), played Late Night with David Letterman, toured extensively nationally and internationally, and has been praised by NPR, Rolling Stone, Nylon, and other outlets. We go deep with Lera on learning and setting your own boundaries with yourself and with the industry, lived experiences with the impact and bias against women and mothers by the music industry, losing your sense of purpose and finding it again, enjoying yourself, and more.

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Yancey Strickler is a writer and entrepreneur that co-founded Kickstarter (and was CEO for 3 years), Metalabel, The Creative Independent, and A-Corp (Artist Corporations). Essentially, each of these ventures exist to equip creative people with capabilities, knowledge, and tools that make them more powerful. We cover the different facets of this at length, especially his concept of, and push to create Artist Corporations, the systemic exploitation of artists, how DSPs trade convenience for meaning and depth, platform boycotts, "winning" in it's purest sense, and a whole lot more.

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Josh Radnor is an actor, director, writer, singer/songwriter best known as Ted Mosby from the TV show 'How I Met Your Mother'. In addition to 9 seasons of the hit show, he has written and directed multiple films, appeared on Broadway, released multiple solo records of original music, and has a duo with Australian singer/songwriter Ben Lee. We talk to Josh about giving yourself permission to believe in yourself, checking your internal weather and seasons, ayahuasca, the complications and complexities of fame, undervaluing ease, and a whole lot more.

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AJR are a multi-platinum trio of brothers who started busking in NYC in 2005, and have gone on to release 10 records/EPs (mostly independently, with only 1 major label release), rack up 8+ platinum singles (some multi) and 1 platinum record, nominations for Billboard, iHeartRadio, and American Music Awards, and tours selling out places such as Madison Square Garden and the Hollywood Bowl. We talk with Jack and Ryan about vulnerability as strength, being able to laugh at yourself, failing quickly and moving on, staying fresh and agile creatively, connecting on a human granular level, surviving the comment section, and a whole lot...

Dave Hause's spans 30+ years, from Philly-based punk and hardcore bands (like Paint it Black and The Loved Ones) to his solo career, dozens of records and world-wide touring, and starting his own label with his brother called Blood Harmony Records. We talk with Dave about the blue collar work of a creative career, showing up and doing the work, the role and power of anticipation in a creative career, breathing, and a whole lot more.

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Hayes Carll is a Grammy nominated songwriter from Texas, who has appeared on everything from The Tonight Show to Austin City Limits, is championed by The New York Times, Pitchfork and NPR, and has had his songs covered by Kenny Chesney, Lee Ann Womack, Brothers Osborne, Kelly Willis, and the Hard Working Americans. We talk with Hayes about morning routines and self-care on the road, breaking your audience's stereotypes of a former you, journaling, and divesting from outcomes.

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Tami Neilson is a New Zealand-based artist who grew up in a family band, before releasing her own music independently - which has garnered acclaimed by Rolling Stone, No Depression, Mojo, and the Guardian, featured duets with Willie Nelson (and tours with him and Dylan), as well as a New Zealand Music Award for Producer of the Year (one of just 3 women to ever win the award, in any category). We have a wide-ranging, and deeply vulnerable conversation about brain injuries and health scares, the astounding resilience of artists, finding your champions, gate keepers, bucking stereotypes, and a whole...

The Mammals (Ruth Ungar and Mike Merenda, who also have a project called Mike & Ruthy) are a band from the Woodstock area with deep roots in the folk scene and traditions of the area, have worked with Arlo Guthrie, and Pete Seeger (amongst others), are critically acclaimed by LA Times, No Depression, NPR, PopMatters, and run the roots music festival called The Hoot. We talk with them about gratitude for the ability to create art and music, having faith in the low moments, being links in the (musical) chain, square dancing, and a whole lot more.

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Dan Reeder is a singer-songwriter and painter originally from Louisiana, who has lived in Germany for decades, released critically acclaimed records via John Prine's Oh Boy Records (as one of the first artists signed to the label, at almost 50 years old), and is somewhat of a cult folk-hero. Dan has toured very infrequently over his 20+ year music career, and we talk about why and his feelings about the concept of touring in general, his approach to staying creative musically and in his visual art, the connections he sees between painting and recording songs, we get an inside look at...

The episode in which we ask the expert all the questions about AI and making music, as it stands today: what can AI actually do? What is it going to be able to do next month? Next year? How do we retain rights? How do you ethically train AI models? Is our work safe? Is it protected? Are musicians done? What about AI bands eating up the streaming money? Drew Thurlow is the former SVP of A&R at Sony Masterworks, Director of Artist Partnerships at Pandora, and part of the A&R/marketing team at Nonesuch Records, and...

Maia Friedman is a solo singer/songwriter, as well as a member of The Dirty Projectors and Coco. We talk with Maia about the ingrained narrative of climbing the endless ladder, mothering while on the road, balancing the needs and the desires of parenthood and career, the economics of touring, navigating schedules in a dual artist-parent household, and a whole lot more.

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Leslie Mendelson is a Grammy nominated songwriter from New York City, a favorite of Jackson Browne and Jakob Dylan, she released her first record on RykoDisc before moving to releasing the past 4+ independently. We talk about self sufficiency in the music industry, learning to record yourself, the lack of female representation in the industry especially on the production/engineering end of the spectrum, the gear buying fallacy, combating perfectionism, and more.

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Tammy Rogers is a founding member of Grammy-winning bluegrass band The SteelDrivers, a founding partner of Dead Reckoning (which is credited as being an early champion of 'americana' music), and is also a storied session musician, touring and recording with the likes of Reba McEntire, Patty Loveless, Trisha Yearwood, The Jayhawks, Buddy Miller, Matraca Berg, Eric Church, Jim Lauderdale, Todd Snider, amongst many others. We talk with Tammy about the importance of the musician's union and collective bargaining, flexibility and rolling with the ups and downs and changes, saying yes to as much as possible early in your career...

Carissa Potter is an artist, author, podcast host (Bad at Keeping Secrets), one of AdAges 24 Most Inspiring People of 2021, and is the founder of People I've Loved - which is found in over 600 stores globally and featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Boston Globe, Martha Stewart Living, Create Magazine, New York Times, Teen Vogue, Real Simple. Carissa has worked with ICA in Boston, BAM/PFA, SFMOMA, De Young Museum, CCA, The Body Shop, Anthropologie, The Color Factory, Urban Outfitters, The Hammer, & Pinterest to name a few. We talk about containing multitudes, social practice, the power of showing up...

Johnnyswim, the duo Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, have been releasing records since 2008, have played The Tonight Show (Leno edition), and the Late Late Show, NPR's Tiny Desk and All Things Considered, their song is the theme to Fixer Upper on HGTV, they've had two TV series chronicling their life (Home on the Road, and The Johnnyswim Show, both on Magnolia Network), they've written and published a book titled "Home Sweet Road: Finding Love, Making Music, and Building a Life One City at a Time", and are currently working on a new creative outlet that we discuss here. We...

Drew Holcomb has released over a dozen records since 2005, independently as well as through Dualtone Records and with Thirty Tigers, on top of popular performances and records with his wife, songwriter Ellie Holcomb, he has toured and written with John Hiatt, Los Lobos, Susan Tedeschi, Avett Brothers, Lori McKenna, Natalie Hemby and others, and he started a subscription record store called Magnolia Record Club which he sold to Dualtone in 2018. We talk to Drew about expensive mistakes both he and Michaela have learned through the years, balancing scheduled creative time and spontaneously chasing the muse, while being gentle with...

J Edward Keyes is a journalist with bylines in Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, SPIN, Entertainment Weekly, Village Voice, and who is now the Editorial Director at bandcamp. As an online record store, and music magazine (bandcamp daily), bandcamp is a central hub to the independent music industry (they pay out 82% of their revenue, versus less than 70% at Spotify, et al). We talk with J Edward about sustain, advocating, and growing a vibrant independent music industry and the unique lane bandcamp has carved, "record store" trends, the role of journalism and music advocates, we as the question - do artist's even...

Greta Morgan is a founding member of The Hush Sound, touring with Fallout Boy when she was still a teenager, releasing records via Fueled By Ramen, before moving on to being a touring member of Vampire Weekend and performing with Jenny Lewis. After contracting long Covid she developed spasmodic dysphonia - a neurological voice disorder characterized by involuntary spasms of the muscles in the voice box. I.E. it is nearly impossible to sing. After writing nearly 350,000 words in journals, she turned her work into a book - "The Lost Voice" (out now via Harper Collins). We talk with...

Major Jackson is a poet, author, and professor who is the recipient of fellowships from Guggenheim Foundation, National Endowment for the Arts, Academy of American Poets, Fine Arts works Center in Provincetown, and the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard, he has been honored by the Pew Fellowship in the Arts, and the Witter Bynner foundation in conjunction with the Library of Congress, awarded the Pushcart Prize, has been published in American Poetry Review, the New Yorker, Paris Review, Orion Magazine, is an elected member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and serves as the Poetry...

Seth Walker is singer/songwriter, guitarist, author, and painter who grew up on a commune in North Carolina, has released 12(+) records, has toured and collaborated with The Mavericks, The Wood Brothers, Paul Thorn, and Raul Malo, amongst others, and wrote a book titled 'Your Van is on Fire," about the life of a touring musician. This conversation centers around mindfulness, presence, and awareness, and we touch on his nomadic creativity (having lived in NC, Nashville, Austin, New Orleans, and NYC), listening closely because peace speaks much quieter than anxiety, shedding the energy from the audience after the show, pointing...

Caitlyn Smith is a singer and songwriter who has released 3 records via Sony and is now releasing music independently, she has a publishing deal with Universal (UMPG) and her songs have been recorded by Garth Brooks, Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers, Meghan Trainor, John Legend, Miley Cirus, Avicii, Lady A, Rascal Flatts, and Chris Isaak amongst others, and she has been nominated or won a Critics Choice Award, ACM and CMT Music Awards. We talk to Caitlyn about not moving from a major label to independence, not believing in writer's block, everyone's horrible first drafts, telling a massive star...

Wilder Woods is the solo project of Bear Rinehart, the lead singer of multi-plantinum, Grammy-nominated, Billboard award winning, multiple Dove award-winning mega rock band NEEDTOBREATHE. We chat with Bear about how his prolific creative output forced his hand on starting Wilder Woods, juggling not only creating but performing with 2 drastically different projects, setting goals and intentions, knowing the path to those goals, internal perception of success and not only allowing things to unfold in their own time but enjoying them for what they are, and a whole lot more.

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Daren Thomas Magee - Real Fun, Wow! - is an illustrator, muralist, and designer based in Ojai California, who has used social media as a creative tool to grow a following (370,000 on instagram currently) and launch a company built on his artwork - selling prints, apparel and housewares of all kinds, and has grown to include multiple employees and collaborations with companies as far reaching as tiles, towels, and candles. We talk with Daren about tuning your instrument to the beauty of life around you, sacrifices you make to live in an inspiring place, play within a system not...