Peaceful Exit

Paisley Rekdal, a former poet laureate of Utah, has spent her career writing about history, memory, and loss. These include her own personal losses, as well as collective losses, like from war and immigration. In this episode, Paisley tells Sarah about caring for her father as he died, the complicated emotions that came from that experience, and what poetry uniquely offers grievers. They also discuss her grandmother's choice to die by euthanasia at over 100 years old— what Paisley calls "the gold standard of death"— and why she believes there's a lightness that can follow loss.

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Glaciologist Twila Moon studies Earth's ice, the glaciers and ice sheets that have built up over millennia, but that are now disappearing much more rapidly. In this episode, Twila and Sarah talk about the visceral sensory experience of standing next to a living glacier, and what it's like to watch something that once felt permanent, something that has animated her heart and mind for decades, vanish within her lifetime. They also discuss learning to sit with climate grief, and Twila shares why taking action in the face of overwhelming ecological disaster can actually generate hope.

Estate planning attorney Brittany Cook helps people get their legal affairs in order before they die, and in this episode she and Sarah dig into everything you need to know about wills, trusts, powers of attorney, executors, and why it's never a "set it and forget it" exercise. Brittany breaks down what happens when someone dies without a plan, why communicating your wishes matters just as much as the paperwork itself, and how to manage who gets access to your online accounts after you're gone. Brittany also shares tips for actually starting these conversations, and the three most important...

Psychologist and author Dr. Elaine Kasket is an expert in what's known as the digital afterlife, and in this episode she tells Sarah about the complex intersection of technology, identity, and grief. Elaine covers topics most of us have never even thought about: the rise of grief bots and AI resurrections, as well as the practical challenges of managing our digital footprints after we die. Elaine also explains how technology can shape a legacy, as well as what it truly means to stay human in the digital age.

For more information about Elaine's work...

 Dr. Jessica Zitter and Chaplain Betty Clark have spent over a decade caring for patients together at Highland Hospital in Oakland, California, where Dr. Zitter is a critical and palliative care physician and Betty is the chaplain. Their partnership is at the heart of the documentary, "The Chaplain & The Doctor," and in this episode they tell Sarah what it means to treat the body and the spirit. Betty explains why she doesn't walk into a room because someone is dying, but because they are still living, while Jessica reflects on how Betty has changed the way she doctors. They al...

Thanatologist, horticulturalist, and author Cole Imperi studies death, dying, grief, loss and bereavement. She says we don't have a taboo around death in our culture - but around grief. In this episode, she and Sarah dive into Cole's pioneered concept of "shadow loss," and they break down the six distinct categories where grief manifests, which she also outlines in her book "A Guide to Grief," for teens and tweens. Cole provides a beautiful blueprint for keeping your grief moving, explains why words can act as medicine, and describes how embracing the grieving process can ultimately guide you back home.<...

When Nancy Howard Cobb wrote "In Lieu of Flowers: A Conversation for the Living" in the year 2000, she was ahead of her time. Little did she know that the cultural appetite for stories about mortality would only continue to grow, and that her book would be republished more than two decades later. In this interview,  Nancy explores the deaths of her parents, the loss of a close friend, and the shattering discovery of a marriage built on lies. She also tells Sarah why telling our stories of death and grief may be one of the most vital things we ca...

Death doula Darnell Lamont Walker, author of "Never Can Say Goodbye: The Life of a Death Doula and the Art of a Peaceful End," came to this work young. At just 12 years old, he sat with his dying cousin during the AIDS crisis. At 13, he helped classmates grieve the death of a friend. Darnell shares with Sarah how his grandma's fearless, open-hearted approach to death shaped those early experiences and everything that followed. He explains why grief doesn't have just one face: it can look like starting a garden, running a marathon, laughing hysterically, or crying at a red...

Anne Lamott is known for her piercing honesty, her humor, and her willingness to go to the hard places. She's the New York Times bestselling author of books like "Bird by Bird" and "Traveling Mercies," and she is, appropriately, so many people's favorite writer. In this conversation with Sarah, Anne explores the terrain that has defined so much of her life and writing: loss, grief, faith, and grace. She shares what she's learned from sitting with dying people, including her father and her best friend, and why she's well attuned to find hope - even in the darkest times.<...

Alua Arthur is a death doula and a New York Times bestselling author, most recently for her book "Briefly Perfectly Human." In this episode from 2024, Alua shares with Sarah what it was like fleeing Ghana as a child, and how she found her calling in an unexpected conversation on a bus. They also discuss the transformative nature of confronting mortality, why it's important to set boundaries in grief, and how to address people's natural fears during the dying process.

For more information about Alua's work, please visit www.aluaarthur.com, and follow her on...

At the end of every episode of Peaceful Exit, Sarah asks her guests the same question: what does a peaceful exit mean to you? There have been many overlapping themes in people's responses, but so far no two replies have been exactly the same. In this compilation episode, we revisit the answers from our amazing season 6 guests: Dr. BJ Miller; Dr. Lucy Hone; Lisa Keefauver; Mary Roach; Jenny George; Kaleel Sakakeeny; Jessica Correnti; Carla Fernandez; Suzanne O'Brien; James Crews; and Dr. Deborah Kado. If you've ever considered how you might answer this question - what does a peaceful exit...

As co-director of the Stanford Center on Longevity at Stanford University, geriatrician Dr. Deborah Kado helps patients live not just longer, but better. In this thoughtful interview, she  shares what her earliest patients taught her about the end of life, and what any of us can do - starting now - to age with dignity and purpose. Dr. Kado also explains why, despite what you might think, older people are some of the happiest folks around, and why a baby born today could reasonably expect to live to 100 years old.

For more information on Dr...

Poet James Crews lost his father when he was just 20 years old, and then, decades later, his mother and both grandmothers died in the same year. In this episode, he talks to Sarah about the different experiences he had with grief across these major losses, and how they've inspired his work, including a number of poems in his latest collection, "Turning Toward Grief." James also explains why even messy, imperfect writing can help carry us forward when we’re grieving. He invites us to ponder two questions in this interview: what do we lose when we turn away from gr...

Suzanne O’Brien is founder and CEO of the Doulagivers Institute and author of the book “The Good Death.” She has trained thousands of people around the world in end-of-life care, with a mission to make death literacy accessible to all. She tells Sarah why she believes that dying is not just a medical event, but a sacred transition — one that can be met with preparation, presence, and even peace. In this conversation, Suzanne also shares what she has learned from decades at the bedside of dying people, how to diminish fear of the natural dying process, and why granny p...

Carla Fernandez, author of the book "Renegade Grief," was just 21 years old when her father José died. She felt ill-equipped to handle her grief alone, so she started reaching out to friends. What began as a simple potluck dinner with other young adults who'd also lost parents grew into The Dinner Party, a nationwide movement with tables in over a hundred cities. At these gatherings, grievers share food, stories, and the complicated reality of loss. In this episode, Carla talks to Sarah about the power of normalizing these conversations, the rituals that help us continue bonds with those we l...

Child life specialist Jessica Correnti helps kids and families navigate loss, change, and big life transitions. In this episode, she tells Sarah why children often experience grief in short emotional "bursts"; why they process grief best through play; and why it's best to talk to kids honestly about death and dying. Jessica also shares  her deeply personal story of pregnancy loss, and how that experience inspired her books, "Forever Connected" and "The ABCs of Grief" series.

To learn more about Jessica's work, please visit https://www.kidsgriefsupport.com/

Animal chaplain Kaleel Sakakeeny was overwhelmed by grief after the death of his cat Kyro. And even though pet loss is an incredibly common experience, Kaleel felt like he had nowhere to turn. So, he took matters into his own hands: Kaleel became an animal chaplain, an ordained pastor, and a pet loss and bereavement counselor. He also founded the nonprofit Animal Talks, which supports people who've lost a pet, and helps others become certified to provide counseling. Kaleel tells Sarah why the death of a pet can cut so deeply, and what we really grieve when we mourn...

Poet Jenny George was always drawn to writing about death and dying, even before she lost her wife to ovarian cancer. In her latest collection of poems, "After Image," Jenny uses the lens of grief to describe caring for and losing her sweetheart, and to explore what it means to live in the shadow of her death. Jenny tells Sarah about the challenges of writing about dying, and also why her grief sometimes makes her feel like "an old baby."

Mary Roach is a New York Times bestselling author and acclaimed science writer who once thought science was boring. She has traveled the world and written fascinating, humorous books about the human body and its curiosities. Today she discusses three of them with Sarah: "Stiff," "Six Feet Over," and her latest, "Replaceable You." They also talk about how our culture got so squeamish about dead bodies, and where we might go after we die.

Learn more about Mary Roach and her wonderful books at https://www.maryroach.net/

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It's time for the annual holiday episode, and this year we're revisiting a few of our favorite conversations from 2025. (It was tough to pick, they are all favorites!) You'll hear excerpts from Sarah's interviews with puppeteer Basil Twist; death educator Joél Simone; poet Danusha Laméris; journalist Oliver Burkeman; and writer-illustrator duo Suzy Hopkins and Hallie Bateman. Each of these guests brought a new perspective on death and grief to our podcast. We are grateful to all of our listeners this year. May your holidays bring you peace.

Social worker Lisa Keefauver was just 40 years old when her husband died from cancer in her arms. She has since become an outspoken grief activist, helping people identify, understand, live with, and talk about their grief through her book and podcast, "Grief Is a Sneaky Bitch." Lisa tells Sarah why scuba diving is a metaphor for life, how to metabolize your grief over a lifetime, and what to do when grief catches you off guard in the most unexpected moments.

You can find more information on Lisa's work at www.lisakeefauver.com

Psychologist Dr. Lucy Hone studies resilience, a topic that hit especially close to home when her 12-year old daughter Abi and two friends were killed in a car crash in 2014. She tells Sarah how her close knowledge of resilience informed her grieving, why humans are hardwired to cope, and what role her grief over Abi plays in her life now. Lucy also shares practical tips for anyone who is grieving from her first book, "Resilient Grieving," and previews her new book about living losses, called "How Will I Ever Get Through This?," which will be out in 2026.

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Palliative care physician Dr. BJ Miller survived a near-death experience and lost three limbs at just 19 years old. In this intimate conversation, he tells Sarah how confronting mortality reshaped his purpose, and opened his heart to awe, humor, creativity, and love. BJ has been on a mission to redefine end-of-life care through his work at Mettle Health and his book, "A Beginner's Guide to the End." He invites you to challenge the fear and silence around death, and imagine a better way to live — and die.

Peaceful Exit is back with new episodes starting Tuesday, November 11! Host Sarah Cavanaugh is on a mission to dispel people's natural fear surrounding death, dying and grief. This season, she'll talk with a new slate of exciting guests: writer Mary Roach, palliative care physician Dr. BJ Miller, psychologist Dr. Lucy Hone, grief activist Lisa Keefauver, poet Jenny George, and many others. You'll hear how death has brought each of them meaning, connection, and even moments of joy. Not one of us is getting out of here alive - so we might as well talk about it. 

Dacher Keltner is the founding director of the Greater Good Science Center and a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley. He’s one of the world’s leading scientists studying emotions, and his latest book is "Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life." In this episode, Dacher tells Sarah why we need awe, and where (and how) to find it each and every day. He also shares the deeply personal story of losing his brother to colon cancer, and why this relationship was a key source of awe in his...

Journalist Katy Butler spent years listening to hundreds of people’s stories of good and difficult deaths. She’s talked to countless experts in palliative care, geriatrics, hospice, and oncology. Those conversations, paired with lots of research and the story of her own father's challenging death, come together in her deeply practical and existential book, "The Art of Dying Well: A Practical Guide to a Good End of Life." In this episode, Katy tells Sarah what she learned from each of her parents’ deaths, what the research says most people want in their final chapters, and what she'd like for th...

Actress and author Patti Davis spent ten years caring for her father, President Ronald Reagan, as he faced Alzheimer's disease. She joins Sarah to share the hard truths of caregiving for a loved one with dementia, the emotional toll it takes, and the surprising moments of grace that can emerge.

Hospice nurse Barbara Karnes helped set the standard for end-of-life care 35 years ago, when she wrote "Gone From My Sight." It's a little blue pamphlet that uses simple, straightforward language to explain the dying process - and it is still widely used today by hospice agencies across the country. In this episode, Barbara tells Sarah how hospice helps not just the dying individual, but their loved ones too. They also discuss what the dying process looks and sounds like, and what to know if you're helping someone through it.

You can learn more about...

Michelle Hord has lived through any parent's worst nightmare: her ex-husband murdered their seven-year old daughter Gabrielle. She talks about her book, "The Other Side of Yet," and tells Sarah how she transformed her grief into action, hope, and resilience, particularly through founding the nonprofit Gabrielle's Wings. Michelle also discusses the impact of other significant deaths in her life, the unexpected gifts loss can bring, and why it's essential to find love and joy in its aftermath.

Find Michelle’s book at: https://michelledhord.com/the-other-side-of-yet

Learn more about Ga...

This week, we’re re-releasing an episode featuring Sarah's conversation with Michael Wiegers, who gives us a masterclass in poetry. He's the editor-in-chief at Copper Canyon Press, an independent nonprofit press that publishes award-winning poetry. Under his leadership, CCP has published over 400 titles, including winners of the Pulitzer and Nobel Prizes, as well as the National Book Award. If you’ve ever felt that poetry is unattainable, Michael will convince you otherwise. Have you ever wondered why poets are always writing about death? Michael offers Sarah his thoughts, along with an essential poetry reading list.

You...

This week, we’re re-releasing an earlier episode featuring Sarah's conversation with Episcopal priest, playwright, and former economist Steven Tomlinson. He tells Sarah about his personal journey through grief and healing after the sudden loss of his partner, David. Tomlinson reflects on how community, faith, and the process of writing his play Curb Appeal helped him navigate the complexities of loss. They also discuss the raw realities of losing a partner, and how his understanding of death and resurrection has shifted. Tomlinson's story offers deep insights into finding peace amidst uncertainty.

Basil Twist is a world-famous puppeteer. His first full-length production, Symphonie Fantastique, flipped the audience's concept of the art form by existing entirely underwater in a massive tank. As he looks back on his decades-long career, we talk about what aging feels like, how losing a mentor changed him, and all the wonderful live shows he has collaborated on, and why seeing performances in-person matters. We explore the world of puppetry, and how the veil between being alive and not alive is so thin. He argues the audience does not need to suspend disbelief, but simply to believe.

Quan Huynh's story details the resilience of the human spirit. His book, "Sparrow in the Razor Wire: Finding Freedom from Within While Serving a Life Sentence," is an open, honest look at his life while incarcerated for committing murder. Quan was paroled in 2015, and, just six months later, he started his first company. He has devoted his entire career to helping incarcerated people have the best shot at a second chance. His lessons of internal transformation, healing, and friendship are universal.

You can learn more about Quan and his work here: https://quanxhuynh.com/<...

This mother-daughter, writer-illustrator duo, has created two illustrated books together. The first stemmed from Hallie's painful realization that her mother would die someday. The second from Suzy's heartbreak when her husband of 30 years unexpectedly left her. The three of us talk about the ways that a break up is like a death, all the feelings that come with grief -- including rage -- and how to make your own ritual as a healing tool. Their grief literacy and dark sense of humor made this conversation relatable and models what is possible to talk about in families if only we...

In my conversation with poet Danusha Laméris, we talk about art, poetry, grief, and language. She reads from her latest collection of poems, "Blade by Blade," which is described as a book of hungers. We talk about what that means, how it relates to grief and how grief is rarely isolated. It's always connected to so many other human experiences and feelings. And she would know. We talk about two big losses in her life -- her brother and her son.

Lauren Canaday has lived quite a life. Two lives, if you ask her. In her memoir, Independence Ave: How Individualism Killed Me and Community Brought Me Back, Lauren recounts her dating life and career from statician to hair stylist to hair industry executive. Then the moment that changed everything -- Lauren suffered sudden cardiac arrest and didn't have a heartbeat for 24 minutes. By her husband's quick action and one fierce EMT, she survived, and was miraculously declared cognitively intact. In our converation, Lauren talks about how her endless pursuit for independence was turned upside down by this near death...

Oliver Burkeman's latest book, "Meditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts," is a guide to embracing what he calls the imperfect life. It's the realization that you're never going to sort your life out. So instead of attempting that futile task day after day and viewing your limitations as a human as obstacles to a meaningful life, you embrace them. In our conversation, Oliver and I dig into some common misconceptions about the human condition, why existing in the modern world asks so much of us, and how and why we...

Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer knows grief. Her dad and son died in the same year. Like her latest book, The Unfolding, if this interview were music, it would be in the key of grief. Rosemerry shares how her daily writing practice helped her navigate the days and weeks following her son's death. She also explains how we can hold opposite things that may both be true. We can let go of the tired stories we tell ourselves and find new metaphors that better serve us.

You can find Rosemerry's work and learn more about her...

Joél Simone is a licensed funeral director and embalmer, spiritual death care educator and the founder of the Multicultural Death & Grief Care Academy. She's helping to revolutionize the death care industry by educating practitioners about culturally sensitive protocols and death care for communities of color. In this episode, we talk about everything from restorative art, to various disposition methods, to how Covid impacted the death care industry. Joél also talks about growing up in Beaufort, South Carolina, immersed in the Gullah Geechee culture.

You can learn more about Joél and The Mul...

Rabbi Neil Blumofe is the senior rabbi at Congregation Agudas Achim in Austin, Texas, and has been part of that community for 26 years! Rabbi Blumofe and I talk about how music can help facilitate community and spirituality. If life is improvisation, then Judaism is jazz. And sometimes rock 'n roll. We also talk about forgiveness, belonging, what makes something sacred and how forgiveness is possible at any time.

You can learn more about Rabbi Blumofe's work here: https://theaustinsynagogue.org/rabbi-neil-f-blumofe/