What Came Next

Content warning: stalking, child sexual abuse material, childhood sexual abuse, kidnapping, rape.

Liz is a mother and survivor from New York. When she was 14 years old, the police launched an investigation with her next door neighbor as the subject because they suspected he had a nefarious plan to groom and likely abuse Liz. After several months navigating an eye-opening, life-changing criminal justice process, Liz was left to heal largely on her own as her freshman year of high school ended. In this episode, Liz shares her poignant perspective of what it means to be a survivor and...

Content warning: murder, parricide, matricide, domestic violence, intimate partner violence, elder abuse, child-to-parent violence and abuse, and false reporting.

Rasul T. Freelain is an author and award-winning, retired veteran of the Oak Park Police Department in Illinois. Throughout his 20-year career, he served in roles including Youth Services Supervisor, Patrol Sergeant, and Detective. It was amidst his work with children and families that he recognized the concept of child-to-parent violence, nearly a decade prior to meeting Sheila von Wiese Mack. Over the span of years, Rasul would be a resource for Sheila as she struggled through an...

Content warning: extreme violence, brutality, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, rape, strangulation, torture, domestic violence, criminal threats, kidnapping, and murder. 

Jordan Wulf is a mother, business professional, victim advocate, and survivor of domestic violence from Iowa. After growing up in a small town and dreaming of becoming a teacher, Jordan set out to create a life for herself post-high school. However, her trajectory changed when she began dating her husband-to-be. Over the years of their marriage, Jordan would be a victim to an escalating pattern of coercion, control, and violence. The violence would rise to an unprecedented level i...

Content warning: extreme violence, brutality, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, rape, strangulation, torture, domestic violence, criminal threats, kidnapping, and murder. 

Jordan Wulf is a mother, business professional, victim advocate, and survivor of domestic violence from Iowa. After growing up in a small town and dreaming of becoming a teacher, Jordan set out to create a life for herself post-high school. However, her trajectory changed when she began dating her husband-to-be. Over the years of their marriage, Jordan would be a victim to an escalating pattern of coercion, control, and violence. The violence would rise to an unprecedented level i...

Content warning: emotional abuse, sexual abuse, rape, torture, domestic violence, physical brutality, kidnapping, and murder. 

Jordan Wulf is a mother, business professional, victim advocate, and survivor of domestic violence from Iowa. After growing up in a small town and dreaming of becoming a teacher, Jordan set out to create a life for herself post-high school. However, her trajectory changed when she began dating her husband-to-be. Over the years of their marriage, Jordan would be a victim to an escalating pattern of coercion, control, and violence. The violence would rise to an unprecedented level in October of 2022, when t...

Content warning: bullying, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, systemic abuse, systemic betrayal, self-harm, and suicidal ideation.

Mary Cain is an author, athlete, and non-profit board member that was once hailed as one of the greatest young running talents in the world. But behind her success was a much more complicated story involving the pressures of elite competition, her experience inside the Nike Oregon Project, and the challenges she faced as she tried to find her voice. In the years that followed, and through civil legal accountability, Mary transformed from an athlete into an author and advocate examining the...

Content warning: child abuse, rape, strangulation, asphyxia, and murder.
 
Shelley Hamilton is a co-victim of murder and co-author of the nonfiction book, The Forsaken. She has spent years uncovering the truth behind a deeply personal and complex case that forever changed her family and community, the 1978 murders of Shelley's 24-year-old sister, Rhonda Hamilton Wicht, and Rhonda's four-year-old son, Donnie. Shelley's journey in the criminal justice system over the last 48 years has been truly shocking. From mistrial to conviction to a prisoner's pardon, she has never given up her fight for truth. Alongside journalist Alicia Doyle, Shelley's mission i...

Content warning: domestic violence, intimate partner violence, rape, strangulation, asphyxia, and murder.
 
Shelley Hamilton is a co-victim of murder and co-author of the nonfiction book, The Forsaken. She has spent years uncovering the truth behind a deeply personal and complex case that forever changed her family and community, the 1978 murders of Shelley's 24-year-old sister, Rhonda Hamilton Wicht, and Rhonda's four-year-old son, Donnie. Shelley's journey in the criminal justice system over the last 48 years has been truly shocking. From mistrial to conviction to a prisoner's pardon, she has never given up her fight for truth. Alongside journalist Alicia D...

Content warning: domestic violence, intimate partner violence, rape, strangulation, asphyxia, and murder.
 
Shelley Hamilton is a co-victim of murder and co-author of the nonfiction book, The Forsaken. She has spent years uncovering the truth behind a deeply personal and complex case that forever changed her family and community, the 1978 murders of Shelley's 24-year-old sister, Rhonda Hamilton Wicht, and Rhonda's four-year-old son, Donnie. Shelley's journey in the criminal justice system over the last 48 years has been truly shocking. From mistrial to conviction to a prisoner's pardon, she has never given up her fight for truth. Alongside journalist Alicia D...

Content Warning: criminal threats, professional abuse, image-based sexual abuse, legal abuse, cultic abuse, substance use disorder, driving under the influence, institutional betrayal, domestic violence, intimate partner violence, child-to-parent violence, childhood sexual abuse, sex trafficking, murder, and racism.

Welcome to a special update episode of What Came Next. Since the launch of What Came Next over three years ago, we have had the honor of hosting conversations with nearly 200 incredible survivors and co-victims. Each guest we’ve hosted has brought powerful insight and incredible advocacy to the survivor community, and their work often extends far beyond the scope of...

Content warning: childhood abuse, childhood sexual abuse, sexual assault, rape, abduction, missing persons, gun violence, murder, and mental illness.

Amber Rodgers is a survivor, business professional, and creative from Texas. As early as she can remember, her life was filled with chaos. By the time she was fourteen, she was a multi-crime survivor, and by 19 she would serve as a witness in her best friend’s murder trial. Amber moved forward by cultivating a successful career and loving family, until her past trauma instigated a cascading effect in her mental health and relationships. Although Amber has shared po...

Content warning: childhood abuse, childhood sexual abuse, sexual assault, rape, abduction, missing persons, gun violence, murder, and mental illness.

Amber Rodgers is a survivor, business professional, and creative from Texas. As early as she can remember, her life was filled with chaos. By the time she was fourteen, she was a multi-crime survivor, and by 19 she would serve as a witness in her best friend’s murder trial. Amber moved forward by cultivating a successful career and loving family, until her past trauma instigated a cascading effect in her mental health and relationships. Although Amber has shared po...

*Content Warning: fraud, harassment, catfishing, stalking, sexual abuse, troubled teen industry, childhood abuse, and institutionalized child abuse.

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The Gat...

Deep Cover is a true crime show about double lives, from our friends at Pushkin
Industries. Their new season, The Family Man, is a story about how families can deceive each other and the lengths we’ll go to to protect our loved ones. Elise and Marissa grew up in a seemingly normal house in the suburbs of St. Louis, but it was a house built on secrets. There were things their father never told them—like how he really made his money. One night, the police showed up, raided their house, and seized boxes of evidence. Hours later, the...

Content Warning: legal abuse, divorce, child-to-parent violence, narcissistic abuse, and coercive control.

Vanessa Reiser is a mother, author, survivor, and licensed psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic and cult abuse. She is also the founder of Tell a Therapist, LLC and is best known for her 11-day, 285 mile run across the state of New York - in a wedding dress - to raise awareness for narcissistic abuse. We had the previous honor of hosting Vanessa as a guest on What Came Next in episode 77, entitled “The Treachery of No Empathy,” which first aired on July 5th, 2024. In the episode, her...

Content Warning:  love fraud, intimate fraud, financial fraud, gun violence, and robbery.

Tracy Hall is a mother, author, speaker, business marketing expert, and victim of financial and intimate fraud from Australia. After a series of traumatic events and life changes, Tracy found herself unexpectedly single in her early 40’s. Although she had a full life, she sought an activity partner to grow with. That’s when she met Max Tavita, a Bondi Beach businessman with an active lifestyle and a deepening love for Tracy. Over the next year and a half, he would carefully cultivate a relationship that...

Content Warning: miscarriage, love fraud, intimate fraud, financial fraud, and robbery.

Tracy Hall is a mother, author, speaker, business marketing expert, and victim of financial and intimate fraud from Australia. After a series of traumatic events and life changes, Tracy found herself unexpectedly single in her early 40’s. Although she had a full life, she sought an activity partner to grow with. That’s when she met Max Tavita, a Bondi Beach businessman with an active lifestyle and a deepening love for Tracy. Over the next year and a half, he would carefully cultivate a relationship that prom...

Content Warning: suicidal ideation, suicide, neglect, abuse, torture, child abuse, childhood torture, domestic childhood torture, institutionalized abuse, and institutionalized torture.

Ali Davis is a healthcare professional, non-profit founder, and a survivor of alleged childhood torture. She was born in Alaska, and as early as she can remember, the alleged torture that she would face at the hands of her mother had begun. It would take her years to come to recognize the weight of all that she navigated, and to be able to name it appropriately. Amidst her healing journey she launched a non-profit foundation called Pretti...

Content Warning: intimate partner violence, domestic violence, strangulation, and murder.

Nichole Schmidt is a mother, speaker, non-profit founder, victim advocate, and co-victim of murder. Her trajectory changed drastically in August of 2021 with the very public disappearance and murder of her daughter, Gabby Petito. In the wake of her loss, Nichole has transformed her grief into legislative and social change via the Gabby Petito Foundation, a Netflix documentary, a forthcoming book and podcast, and much more. The Broken Cycle Media team is beyond grateful for Nichole’s time, energy, resilience, and advocacy in the wake of her unimaginable lo...

Content Warning: systemic betrayal, institutional betrayal, gun violence, suicide, and murder.

As shared in part one of her story, Jana Guyewski-Lautigar is a mother, educator, social worker, and author from Bastrop, Louisiana. She joins us today to honor her sister, Crystal McCrorry Jones, whose life tragically ended on February 9th, 2023. Her death was deemed an unattended death - when a person passes away without witnesses or medical personnel present -  and thus, requires certain processes and procedures be completed to properly be investigated. Jana has been on a mission since Crystal’s death to compel the local aut...

Content Warning: systemic betrayal, institutional betrayal, gun violence, suicide, and murder.

Jana Guyewski-Lautigar is a mother, educator, social worker, and author from Bastrop, Louisiana. She joins us today to honor her sister, Crystal McCrorry Jones, whose life tragically ended on February 9th, 2023. Her death was deemed an unattended death - when a person passes away without witnesses or medical personnel present -  and thus, requires certain processes and procedures be completed to properly be investigated. Jana has been on a mission since Crystal’s death to compel the local authorities in the small town of Oak Grove to...

Content warning: self-harm, suicidal ideation, domestic violence, intimate partner violence, and suicide.

Jen Higgins is a resident of Arkansas, mother, and founder of Anyway Socks, a company on a mission to help end domestic violence. Jen was inspired to create the company after the loss of her best friend, Brooke. In years prior, Brooke had been surviving and attempting to escape a violent relationship, and Jen was doing her best to be Brooke’s support person. However, it was after the tragic loss of Brooke, that Jen was left with a gaping hole in her heart, and a...

Content Warning: unhousedness, substance abuse, substance abuse disorder, domestic violence, child-to-parent violence, elder abuse, parricide, and murder.

As shared in part one of her story, Robin Lee is a court reporter, mother, survivor, and co-victim of murder from Southern California. Although Robin’s career in the criminal justice system has given her a unique perspective, it was the loss of her beloved mother, Jerri Lynn Boswell, that truly opened her eyes to the realities of the criminal justice processes. Jerri Lynn’s 2021 murder came after years of documented abuse at the hands of her son, Robin’s brothe...

Content Warning: intrafamilial sexual abuse, substance abuse, substance abuse disorder, domestic violence, child-to-parent violence, elder abuse, parricide, and murder.

Robin Lee is a court reporter, mother, survivor, and co-victim of murder from Southern California. Although Robin’s career in the criminal justice system has given her a unique perspective, it was the loss of her beloved mother, Jerri Lynn Boswell, that truly opened her eyes to the realities of the criminal justice processes. Jerri Lynn’s 2021 murder came after years of documented abuse at the hands of her son, Robin’s brother. And after what felt like a neve...

Content warning: missing persons and murder.

Today, we’re sharing a preview of The Final Hours, a true crime podcast from Crime House, powered by PAVE Studios.

Hosted by Sarah Turney and Kourtney Nichole, The Final Hours examines the moments just before a person disappears. The routines. The timelines. And the small details that often get overlooked, until it’s too late.

Sarah is an advocate for missing and murdered victims whose sister disappeared in 2001. Kourtney is a true crime storyteller and investigator who witnessed firsthand how crime can change a family forever. Toge...

Content warning: sexual abuse, sexual assault, childhood sexual abuse, statutory rape, human trafficking, sex trafficking, and suicide.

This episode originally aired on November 29th, 2024.

Lisa Phillips is a model, actress, survivor, and victim advocate who has spent much of her life all over the world. While cultivating a career in the modeling and acting industries, Lisa even found herself overseas and as a guest on Jeffrey Epstein’s private island. That specific trip would become quite traumatic for Lisa, and although she would never return to the property again, she would soon be trafficked into a...

Content warning: murder.

The cold-blooded murder of a rising college football star stunned the University of
Miami - and now, nearly 20 years later, a former teammate stands trial for the crime.
An investigative series from ESPN’s acclaimed 30 for 30 Podcasts, “Murder at the U”
unravels a story of betrayal, brotherhood, and the long road to justice in one of the
most gripping sports crime stories in recent memory. With in-depth reporting and
jaw-dropping twists, this true crime series explores the shocking death of Bryan Pata
as it finally heads to the courtr...

Content Warning: grooming, domestic violence, physical violence, sexual violence, sexual abuse, childhood sexual abuse, and sex trafficking.

In these two episodes we feature Marina Lacerda, a survivor and mother from Brazil. In her youth, she immigrated to New York with her mother in hopes of forging a new life. Almost immediately, Marina would begin to face sexual and physical violence that normalized a long cycle of abuse. By the time she was 14, Marina would be introduced to Jeffrey Epstein, a man that seemed to symbolize success and wealth, but only added to her trauma. Eventually, Marina would...

Content warning: murder.

The latest season of ESPN's 30 for 30 Podcasts tells the story of a murder that stunned the world of college football, but then inexplicably went cold. In 2006, Brian Pata, a 22-year-old Rising University of Miami football star was executed in broad daylight, steps from campus and months from realizing his NFL dreams.

No murder weapon was found, witnesses were missing, and of what statements could be gathered, some were conflicting. Leads came and went. For nearly a decade, Brian Pata's murder sat unresolved, a long-dormant case defined more by rumor than evidence. Until...

Content Warning: grooming, domestic violence, physical violence, sexual violence, sexual abuse, childhood sexual abuse, and sex trafficking.

Marina Lacerda is a survivor and mother from Brazil. In her youth, she immigrated to New York with her mother in hopes of forging a new life. Almost immediately, Marina would begin to face sexual and physical violence that normalized a long cycle of abuse. By the time she was 14, Marina would be introduced to Jeffrey Epstein, a man that seemed to symbolize success and wealth, but only added to her trauma. Eventually, Marina would play a part in both...

Content Warning: child abuse, domestic violence, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, sexual assault, image-based sexual abuse, cyberstalking, and rape.

Mae Scott is a multi-crime survivor, mother, and author. Her story of survivorship began at the age of 14, when she met the man she would eventually marry. And although their relationship would end violently and her ex-husband would face a potential life sentence for the harm he forced upon Mae, her legal battle did not end there. After navigating the criminal justice processes, as well as a treacherous family and divorce court journey, Mae now uses her experiences...

Content Warning: child abuse, domestic violence, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, sexual assault, image-based sexual abuse, cyberstalking, and rape.

Mae Scott is a multi-crime survivor, mother, and author. Her story of survivorship began at the age of 14, when she met the man she would eventually marry. And although their relationship would end violently and her ex-husband would face a potential life sentence for the harm he forced upon Mae, her legal battle did not end there. After navigating the criminal justice processes, as well as a treacherous family and divorce court journey, Mae now uses her experiences...

Content Warning: domestic violence, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse, sexual assault, image-based sexual abuse, cyberstalking, and rape.

Mae Scott is a multi-crime survivor, mother, and author. Her story of survivorship began at the age of 14, when she met the man she would eventually marry. And although their relationship would end violently and her ex-husband would face a potential life sentence for the harm he forced upon Mae, her legal battle did not end there. After navigating the criminal justice processes, as well as a treacherous family and divorce court journey, Mae now uses her experiences to bring...

Content Warning: domestic violence, physical, emotional, spiritual, and professional abuse, stalking, child abuse, childhood sexual abuse, and rape.

Nicole Meyer is a mother, educator, and victim-survivor of several types of abuse from Melbourne, Australia. Her journey towards justice and healing was a long, arduous one that spanned 15 years and two countries. Amidst it, Nicole was eventually joined by her sisters, who she would find out were victims of her alleged abuser. The highly publicized nature of their legal battle inspired them to participate in the documentary, Surviving Malka Leifer, and has propelled Nicole to continue to speak...

Content Warning: domestic violence, physical, emotional, spiritual, and professional abuse, stalking, child abuse, childhood sexual abuse, and rape.

Nicole Meyer is a mother, educator, and victim-survivor of several types of abuse from Melbourne, Australia. Her journey towards justice and healing was a long, arduous one that spanned 15 years and two countries. Amidst it, Nicole was eventually joined by her sisters, who she would find out were victims of her alleged abuser. The highly publicized nature of their legal battle inspired them to participate in the documentary, Surviving Malka Leifer, and has propelled Nicole to continue to speak...

Content Warning: domestic violence, physical, emotional, spiritual, and professional abuse, stalking, child abuse, childhood sexual abuse, and rape.

Nicole Meyer is a mother, educator, and victim-survivor of several types of abuse from Melbourne, Australia. Her journey towards justice and healing was a long, arduous one that spanned 15 years and two countries. Amidst it, Nicole was eventually joined by her sisters, who she would find out were victims of her alleged abuser. The highly publicized nature of their legal battle inspired them to participate in the documentary, Surviving Malka Leifer, and has propelled Nicole to continue to speak...

Hi friends,
We wanted to take a moment to wish our audience the healthiest, happiest new year possible. We are endlessly grateful for each of you who listens, shares, and shows up with curiosity and care. We don’t take your listening lightly. Thank you for choosing to spend your time with us, for leaving your hearts open to our guests’ perspectives, and for supporting What Came Next in ways both big and small. This podcast exists because of your time, your trust, and your willingness to engage in these conversations. This week, we encourage you to go back and...

Content Warning: domestic violence, murder, and missing persons.

 Dr. Kelli Boling and Dr. Danielle Slakoff join us today to discuss their impactful research about the creation and consumption of true crime media. They both bring years of experience and expertise to their work in hopes of inspiring true crime to be a more equitable healing space for victims and co-victims. The Broken Cycle Media team has long admired their work and is honored they would join us to talk about their research discoveries and how we can all work to improve the genre for those at the c...

Content Warning: sexual assault, rape, image-based sexual abuse, strangulation, domestic violence, and attempted murder.

As shared in part one of her story, Kelly Sutliff is a survivor, founder of the nonprofit Kelly’s K-9’s: Tails of Courage, and a licensed professional counselor from New Jersey. In 2018, after a devastating grief journey, Kelly decided to return to her search for a life partner. It wouldn’t be long before she met a government contractor promising her the future she desired. However, her entire life changed on December 16th, 2019, when the loving relationship she had been cultivating with her ne...

Content Warning: sexual assault, rape, image-based sexual abuse, strangulation, domestic violence, and attempted murder.

Kelly Sutliff is a survivor, founder of the nonprofit Kelly’s K-9’s: Tails of Courage, and a licensed professional counselor from New Jersey. In 2018, after a devastating grief journey, Kelly decided to return to her search for a life partner. It wouldn’t be long before she met a government contractor promising her the future she desired. However, her entire life changed on December 16th, 2019, when the loving relationship she had been cultivating with her new husband ended violently. After surviving an allege...