Opening up Chaplaincy: an invitation to question and innovate

Martin McGonigle returns as a guest on what is our 50th episode and inspires us with his descriptions of the new community role he has initiated at the Dougie Mac Hospice. Their SPARC team is actively guided in their ambitions, and assisted in their monitoring, by a steering group which helps to drive equality and education through the hospice. Education of clinical staff enables them to have confidence in spiritual assessments and in differentiating care through cultural competence, sharing the responsibility for meeting SPARC needs. A very collaborative approach.

We talk about the importance of self-knowledge and...

Anna (Anne) Vandenhoeck is a professor of pastoral and spiritual care at the Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies at KU Leuven, Belgium. But her curiculum extends into other faculties like medicine and physiotherapy, giving the opportunity not only to teach spirituality to other disciplines but to work towards a shared understanding of what quality of care means. She shares some research about nurses' competence in spiritual awareness and engagement (their 'antenna'). Your feeling of helplessness is an indicator of a spiritual dimension in the conversation and you can be trained to respond in a way that the patients...

Lindsay DeWal realised pretty soon that although her skills in Humanist pastoral care were entirely transferable to the UK context, there are significant differences from her native Holland in the culture and faith tradition which she encountered. Lindsay realised that there is little to no research from a humanist perspective in the UK and embarked on a PhD. We explore with Lindsay what her research tells us about how people within chaplaincy teams feel about their identity and place in their team. The dangers of assumptions we may make about each other are revealed but also the enrichment in...

Conversations for Life offers a way to talk with the living about dying. Mary Matthiesen shares how they have developed the resources and training to have these liberating conversations that give agency and self-determination. Workshops with clinical staff using the conversation cards quickly get to the intimate and unique values that are beyond theory and dogma. We wonder about how we can guard against imposing our own constructions around death and mortality on those we encounter. It is important to allow people to flow with their conversations and to validate (and sometimes expand) their expression of individual issues or...

Lee Barford walks us through the mechanics and opportunities of Artificial Intelligence (AI). We recognise how it can already help people making simple enquiries in Google (“how do I support my neighbour whose partner had died?”) but will it become a tool in chaplaincies with its ability to trawl through vast amounts of digital information and ever increasing sophistication in collating responses? Lee feels that AI will never replace the value-laden, emotionally intelligent authenticity of a human being but undoubtedly people will try to generate an AI who can create a pipeline into our services. We ponder how AI would deal...

Ethel Maqeda explains the way of thinking that underpins the lives of many people across the south of the Africa continent. Ubuntu is a worldview that may not have written texts, but it is an ancient and solid philosophy that has been passed through the generations. A person is only a person through the people around them. Ethel talks about core concepts of connectedness, compassion, solidarity , respect and dignity. All qualities that resonate with the chapIain role. In her community work, she focus is on listening and seeking to understand. Strength comes from working as a team or a community...

Dr Sonya Sharma and Dr Sheryl Reimer Kirkham have done some interesting research into the experiences and practice of chaplains (or spiritual care providers in the Canadian context). Their prayer project looked at where and how prayer featured in the health care environment, taking a broad rather than a theological definition of prayer. In another project they focussed on the experience of female healthcare chaplains and this led to an exploration of the intersectionality between race and and gender. Sonya and Sheryl emphasise the importance of recognising our own positionality in our practice and we discuss together the dimensions of...

Ruqaiyah explains how the Markfield Institute’s Muslim chaplaincy courses came about over 20 years ago, and how trainees are prepared for roles in hospital, prison and university chaplaincy. She offers insights into how Islam is differently structured from Christian faiths which can impact on who comes forward to chaplaincy roles. We reflect on how we can help people seeking a religious steer by explaining the range of options and perspectives (in Islam there are four schools of thought which might offer alternative positions on any given dilemma or choice). We consider how our presence in chaplaincy teams can influence wider un...

Danielle is director of the Sankofa CPE Centre in Chicago which places social justice at the heart of its chaplaincy training and internships. She argues for a shift in our models for chaplaincy and has developed the S.E.L.F model that recognises a hierarchy of needs that call for signposting, psychological first aid and acting as a sounding board ahead of any faith or theological dialogue. Danielle questions the narrowness of some of the what, where and who do chaplaincy in an inspiring and engaging way that can inform an evolution of inclusive community spiritual care.

Terri O'Sullivan works as an Apostate Service Development Officer at Faith to Faithless, an organisation which offers support to people who leave high control religions through peer support, social meetings, speaker events and a helpline. Terri is an ex-JW and understands the pressures and conflicts that arise for apostates who stand to lose their family, community and home, leaving them in a state of vulnerability and isolation. The Faith to Faithless helpline offers trauma-informed pastoral care and advice, recognising the long-term impact of control, judgement and rejection. We reflect on how important confidentiality is to people who disclose any doubt...

We reflect with James Parker about our complementary and overlapping work with our clinical psychologist colleagues. We explore the emotional toll of listening and the role of clinical supervision in processing the impact of what we hear from colleagues about their load, maybe their moral injury. We explore how we can make safe space for people to divulge their struggles and process their emotional or spiritual pain. Working together allows us to cross refer and for people to find their best fit for the conversations they want to have.

We were delighted to have Leon Dundas back as our guest this time talking about Intercultural Fluency. Leon brings not only his wealth of experience of 'quality listening services' but also his vision and humility when talking about how he strives to find the language, cultural references and bridges into other worldviews. It is about hospitality, valuing others worldviews , not in a tokenistic way or smudging out the differences, but striving for authenticity whilst leaning away from the assumption that one (dominant) paradigm is the right one. Leon talks about the risk of 'going in deep' and we look...

Daniel Nuzum is joined by two students (Kate and Paula) from the pilot CPE project that trials a way for UK pastoral carers to gain a professional qualification that is recognised internationally and solidly based in lived experience and clinical practice. The course demands a knowledge of self and a sharing of self that means practitioners have a heightened awareness of ‘who the patient meets when they meet me’. We learn more about the course, the appetite in the NHS to support it and the potential it has to breed a new diverse generation of pastoral carers and healthcare chap...

Chantal shares the course her own bereavement, professional and spiritual journey and how this has informed the OMEGA course that she runs to equip everyday, well people to have conversations about death in their social circles. We note how, through our work roles, we are familiar with this territory and have built our communication skills, but sadly, many people avoid those with a life limiting diagnosis because they feel uncomfortable with the conversation. Stig talks about us ‘stepping forward, rather than stepping back’ and Chantal refers to this a ‘you can talk to me, I can take it’ - a containm...

Jo and Stig start with a short reflection on podcasting so far then they reflect on how we can support people who find themselves as they wait in the timeless zone that can open up in healthcare when waiting for a diagnosis, outcomes of treatment, a bed, a taxi home, an imminent death, a clarity about what next. The recognition of the experience of these liminal or limbo states means listening carefully and acknowledging the frustrations, pain or despair that is unique to each person. Jo feels this most acutely in the Emergency Department where there is little privacy and...

Lyn Baylis explains the complexity and yet simplicity of Pagan beliefs and how the Pagan Seminary course trains people to be knowledgeable about the wide range of Pagan beliefs and to be ready to engage with all people with a spirit of openness and curiosity. The seminary offers accreditation to assist people into chaplaincy roles. Lyn gives examples of a chaplaincy with good inclusive practice but is realistic about how misinformation about Paganism can get in the way. We reflect on what is driving a rise in Paganism, especially in young people, and how this links to heightened environmental concern...

Daniel Grossoehme shares with us how his research agenda explores some of the same territory that he did as a chaplain. He has been researching the role of spiritual beliefs in coping with the impact of cystic fibrosis on families, learning from their experience as to how to help their children live well. We ask about collaborative research and the responsibility of the researcher to help people to find the language and vocabulary to describe their circumstances and feelings. People tell their story in different ways to different people: mixing up the team enriches conversations.

In this wide ranging discussion with Nell Cockell we explore how she works with families in the community where there has been a child with a life-limiting condition who has died. We explore how her role evolved from an initial focus on the staff who knew the families, and the need to 'debrief' not just on a clinical but also an emotional /spiritual plane. We ponder how you find people who are right for the role of pastoral and spiritual care and Nell shares here insights and experiences of walking (sometimes literally) with parents in their grief. Many useful...

Josh talks us through his journey from acting into chaplaincy, qualifying in the MA is Pastoral and Existential Practice he appreciates the colleagues who took a punt on him and gave him the chance to join in chaplaincy with a non-religious worldview. Josh combines his mental health chaplaincy work with teaching acting and voice-overs and draws parallels with the skills he teaches actors in being in the 'now', being open, holding a safe space and suspending judgement. Improvisation calls for a 'wait and see' approach where 'the scene is in the other person' and our reactions are in response...

The challenge of meeting pastoral and spiritual needs in the fast pace and mobility of a large acute hospital is contrasted with the steadier hospice environment leading us to wonder about how to be sure that we are not favouring some folk over others in our visiting practice. Referrals are often the backbone of chaplaincies, but can this skew who gets to see us? On the one hand there may be gatekeepers who expedite a chaplaincy visit because of their own convictions on behalf of a patient, and on the other hand those who might seek to 'protect' their...

When he heard Olivia Jackson talk about her book, (un)certain, Stig was sure that she would make a great guest for our podcast opening up, through the multiple voices in her study, the experience of deconstructing long held and deeply meaningful beliefs. For Olivia the questioning, or uncertainty, started to intrude on her evangelical beliefs as she encountered raw inequality first hand, and began to doubt some of the leadership behaviours she witnessed. We discuss how we regularly come across people with doubts and questions in our chaplaincy work, and the importance of being alongside people, neutral and listening...

Cheryl Holmes has been involved in the Spiritual Health Association in Australia for 20 years, seeing the organisation transform from an interchurch chaplaincy committee to a prominent advocate for compassionate, person-centred spiritual care in health services. Cheryl draws on global sources for the development of coherent and accessible spiritual practice; we talk about the need to take an inclusive approach that encompasses all worldviews, not as add-ons to an established model, but from the outset, making sure our practices give everyone a sense of relevance and belonging. Cheryl is keen to separate out the qualities needed to be a spiritual care...

Liz brings her Buddhist wisdoms to our reflections on the quality of compassion and its roots in our relationships with others and ourselves. Liz is developing her practice in systems-centered training which promotes recognition that we are part of a whole picture instead of just our chaplaincy part, and helps us to recognise ourselves as active members in creating the wider systems that shape ourselves and the organisations we belong to. We share thoughts about our own practice in being with people in their darkness and doubt, wondering about compassion fatigue, boundaries and capacity. Liz explains her commitment to research...

Sue Downie kindly stepped in last minute to share her patient experience and business expertise with us. Sue has been using the services of four acute hospitals in recent years but has never encountered a chaplain or pastoral carer, been signposted to one or see any posters or literature that made her aware that this was a service she might use. Like many, she assumed chaplains mainly came to offer last rights to Christian patients and therefore were not there for her. We ponder how we might influence staff to refer patients, and realise that many of them also think...

Tim Dixon, deputy chaplain at a large mental health trust in the north of England, shares his journey into chaplaincy from the age of 21 and the findings of his PhD in ‘liminal space’ in which remand prisoners (and indeed patients) find themselves. A limbo space which separates a person from what their familiar world, is temporary and in flux and probably leads to a new place yet to be discovered. We discuss how chaplains might help people navigate this period of disorientation and powerlessness. We also reflect on how far chaplains are themselves liminal figures, on the edges and able to p...

Ricarda Witcombe, Sue Miles, Jagdish Singh and Dr Dipankar Bose share their collaborative work at South Warwickshire University NHSFT to build the presence of all faiths and beliefs through an active online Faith Group. In recognition that their chaplaincy team was not diverse, they set out to widen their colleague network through active celebration of festivals and through exploration not only of different approaches and traditions, but also of the communalities that we share as human beings. The benefits of this dialogue for personal and spiritual growth are noted and also the potential to spread the benefits to the wider...

Sylvia cautions against a one-size-fits-all approach to the Jewish patient and advocates for an understanding of Judaism as a Peoplehood based on an ancient unity that offers a sense of indigenous identity, but also of belonging and responsibility to others in that community. We stumble over the name 'chaplaincy' (again) and wonder at its meaning for non-Christians and how this impacts on take-up of any offer to support. Often a Jewish person would look to their own community for support; Judaism does not have a tradition of priesthood in the same way as other beliefs, and therefore the Rabbi is...

Jo and Stig discuss the case study of Lina, a critically ill patient visiting the UK from a remote island. They ponder the challenges and questions that might arise for chaplains in meeting her requests at end-of-life. This prompts reflections on where our personal and professional boundaries might lie on how a team approach can support best practice, but how a diversity of experience and opinion on that team can help to find solutions. The case study reflects how intense and heavy the role of chaplain can feel; how we should strive to be flexible and open-minded; how unpredictably...

Julian shares the course offer for chaplains at St Padarn’s, based as it is in its Christian ethos and pedagogy, but seeking to be welcoming to all. We explore some of the barriers and and bias that make qualifying training more accessible and attractive to some over others and the challenges of redesign of systems and norms that go back decades. We applaud the idea of co-production and user-involvement in the evolution of pastoral and spiritual care services and the tyranny of labelling when our worldviews, faiths and beliefs are iterative and evolving over a lifetime; how building on ou...

Our conversation with Sarah Kerr explores the diversity of traditions (Druidry, Heathenry, Witchcraft, Shamanism, Animism) that come under a Pagan umbrella, including the traditions of paganism in Africa and South America. The Pagan Federation seeks to advocate for a more positive and informed understanding of the ancient beliefs and traditions that were systematically disrupted and discredited over the centuries. The suspicion and fear that was encouraged, meant that it was only 70 years ago that the Witchcraft Act was repealed. Numbers of Pagans are rising, especially amongst the young, with the latest census confirming over 100,000 in the UK, but actual...

Chris shares his journey from evangelical roots, to a liberal seminary, to prison chaplaincy, and then how his practice and beliefs evolved further through community chaplaincy on the streets. We recognise that our lives can become richer through questions rather than answers, through our differences rather than our like-mindedness. We touch on encounters with apostacy and the obstacles to people expressing this freely; on the skills in responding to apostacy without judgement or fear. Chris points out that training for ministry is often about outputs, about the pulpit, but chaplaincy is all about listening at a deep level. We...

Jamie Fearn is doing a PhD on the intersections between spiritual and bodily pain by exploring with co-researchers how they describe their recovery. This proves fertile ground for our discussion about how we encounter trauma in chaplaincy - physical, emotional, moral and spiritual trauma, to do with current circumstances or to do with events in the past. Jamie shares her knowledge of Hakomi which uses mindfulness as a means for connecting people with their inner and physical experiences, building on the principle of unity and interconnectedness. We share examples from our practice and also consider where the boundaries are b...

One year on, Stig and Jo take the opportunity to return to where our podcast started, with a conversation between ourselves about what chaplaincy is all about in the 2020s. Stig suggests chaplaincy is riddled with assumptions and we note how these can be fuelled by prejudice or discrimination. We explore how we need to keep our own assumptions in check and open to change; whether we assume another's thoughts about dying, or their family cohesion, or their sexuality, or their ability to understand, or their ethical stances, or their political views, and so on.  On the other hand, we a...

Amarjodh shares with us how he combines the skills of doctor and chaplain in his approach to pain and distress in others. His life is deeply informed by his Sikh faith and its ethos of altruism and humility. He talks about the 'freedom to delve' into people's beliefs as a chaplain and how a holistic approach recognises that existential distress happens throughout life, especially when faced with adversity or illness. Amarjodh goes on the share the philosophy of the Sikh religion and how it guides people to remember God, to be honest and to share with others (time, knowledge...

In this exploratory and reflective conversation we wonder together about how to ensure that the human side of care is not squeezed out by the staffing and resource pressures in the NHS.  Dr Isobel Morton has worked as a junior doctor through the abnormalities of the pandemic, observing and experiencing the realities of palliative and acute care. She reflects on how the landscape has changed and what may be ahead in terms of palliative care, reminding us that, as chaplains, we need to be engaged in the evolution of services to maximise our reach and contribution. We discuss how chaplaincy c...

Spiritual literacy underpins much of this podcast with Anastasia sharing her Spirituality Wheel (see the resources section on our website) which seeks to establish a universal and accessible format for exploring the spiritual or essential self. Working in mental health chaplaincy, she shares how she uses the Wheel to facilitate individual and group interactions as well as in spiritual assessment and care planning. Anastasia has developed creative and ingenious ways of ‘nourishing’ through poetry, singing and creative writing in ways that validate individual experiences and promote connectivity. Fascinating ideas that push the boundaries on how chaplaincy is framed and understood.

In this broad and wide ranging discussion we explore with Leti Hawthorn the knowledge, skills and attitudes that are needed to be authentically non-judgemental and present with others. Leti shares her journey into interfaith ministry, driven by a recognition of how her own cultural and faith history might limit her ability to show equal compassion; and how much richer her insights and appreciations are with more understanding of other beliefs and worldviews. Leti is an enabler and considers an important part of her role is to support others to engage with the emotional and spiritual, as well as the...

Triggered by the death of her Dad a few days ago,  Jo reflect with Stig on what makes a good death.  They think about how to talk about death and the dangers of assuming that it is always terrible and tragic. As chaplains we must be cautious and tentative in locating just how people might be feeling about their own death or that of their loved one. Death is a wholly individual experience and not a path that we travel more than once, so it is unchartered territory. Some people may be strengthened by the presence of others and ot...

Leon shares his insightful perspectives on how his ethnicity, his faith and his rich life experiences inform his chaplaincy practice. He has lived in different parts of the world and in different communities, worked in healthcare chaplaincy, hospices (children and adults), and currently in prisons with the remit of 'chaplain' but with a breadth of understanding of that role that is informed by his own experiences of oppression and a deep empathy with the patient, staff and prisoner experience. We throw light on concepts of privilege and power that can play out, knowingly and unknowingly, and the chaplain responsibility...

Simon is active in senior levels at the College of Healthcare Chaplains and the UK Board of Healthcare Chaplains and offers his views about the dimension of professionalism in chaplaincy. We look at role boundaries with other professions and wonder about the essential qualities of the role, how to be ‘deeply rooted’ and how this relates to endorsement and inclusion. We explore how to get at the ‘slippery fish’ in conversations, who to prioritise in our engagements and how asking about faith or belief can set us on too narrow a path.