Finding Our Way
UX design pioneers and Adaptive Path co-founders Peter Merholz and Jesse James Garrett discuss the evolving challenges and opportunities for design leaders.
78: AI is Expensive, Teaming is Free (ft. Clay Parker Jones)
Show Notes
Peter and Jesse are joined by organization designer Clay Parker Jones, author of Hidden Patterns: A Playbook for More Human Workplaces, who has led organization design work at Airbnb, Undercurrent, R/GA, and August. The conversation covers why roles persist, the importance of indexing on trust over role clarity, the difference between psychological and structural safety, organizational rule of law, and why demonstrating better teams beats trying to convince skeptics.
Clay Parker Jones: https://cpj.fyi, Hidden Patterns book
Jesse James Garrett: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Peter Merholz: https://petermerholz.com/<...
77: Automate All the Things!? A UX Reality Check on AI (ft. Dr Stefanie Hutka)
Show Notes
Intentional Design Leadership Circle
Are you a director-plus design leader looking to connect with others and grow your capabilities? Join Jesse and Peter for the fall cohort of the Intentional Design Leadership Circle, taking place on Wednesdays from October 7th through November 10th. Only 20 seats available for this live online program. Learn more and register.
About this Episode
Dr. Stefanie Hutka, design researcher, Berkeley educator, and author of What Your Machines Should Do, joins us to look to the history of industrial automation for lessons on AI transformation. From...
76: Embrace the Chaos—Design Operations in the age of AI (ft. Z)
Show Notes
Peter and Jesse are joined by Chengying “Z” Zheng, who shares her experience migrating a design team to be AI-first — off Figma and into code. She discusses how design leadership and operations divide the work, what happens to roles and titles when everyone becomes a builder, and how to make good design easier than bad design.
Z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/changyingz/
Z’s Substack: https://changying.substack.com/
Jesse James Garrett: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Peter Merholz: https://petermerholz.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I...
75: The Steady State of Unsteadiness
Show Notes
In this episode, Peter and Jesse compare notes from Config, Figma’s AI study, Lenny’s newsletter survey, and countless conversations to read the current state of design leadership. The signals: existential AI panic has cooled into exhaustion, organizational chaos and leadership churn are the new normal, and design still stumbles on business acumen. Their case for thriving—lead, don’t just design, and reclaim design’s unfinished mandate.
For more from Jesse James Garrett, including his AI transformation practice: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
For more from Peter Merholz, including his newsletter, his consul...
LIMINAL—4: You As A Service (ft. Dave Gray)
Show Notes
Dave Gray, author of Liminal Thinking and founder of School of the Possible, joins Peter and Jesse to examine what’s actually getting in leaders’ way right now: not the disruption itself, but the expertise that blinds them to it. The conversation moves from beginner’s mind to the compression of corporate work, landing on a provocative question — what does your value look like when you define it yourself?
Dave Gray’s School of the Possible: https://schoolofthepossible.com/
Dave Gray on The Practice Economy: https://schoolofthepossible.substack.com/p/the-practice-economy
More on Pe...
73: Charting an Adaptive Path toward AI Transformation
Show Notes
In this episode, Peter and Jesse compare notes from on how AI is reshaping design teams. The conversation moves through the operational chaos of proliferating tools, the urgent need to articulate a value proposition, why design operations got cut right before they were needed most, and the window of expertise power that won’t stay open.
For more about Peter Merholz, his consulting, thought partnership, and teaching offerings: https://petermerholz.com/
For more about Jesse James Garrett, and his AI transformation and leadership coaching offerings: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Je...
72: The Worst Technology Rollout in History (Ft. Paul Ford)
Show Notes
Journalist, technologist, and Aboard co-founder Paul Ford joins Peter and Jesse with the perspective of someone running a services firm in the middle of being remade by AI. The conversation covers the collapsing cost of software, blurring roles, what machines do well and badly, what design’s value proposition becomes, and Paul’s practical advice for staying upright through indefinite change.
Paul’s company: https://aboard.com/; Paul’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ftrain/
Peter’s website: https://petermerholz.com/
Jesse’s website: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’...
71: Finding Our Way Live! (ft John Gleason)
Show Notes
For more about The Future Of… Design conference: https://www.thefutureof-conference.com/.
Use code FINDINGOURWAY for 26% off the registration price.
Find out more about Jesse James Garrett and his upcoming live session on AI Transformation at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Find out more about Peter Merholz at https://petermerholz.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design a...
LIMINAL—3: The Waves within Waves
Show Notes
As of publishing this episode, the Intentional Design Leadership Circle starts in 5 days, on April 15.
https://www.eventcreate.com/e/intentionaldesignleadership
There are still a few spots left.
Also, Jesse announced “AI Transformation for Digital Design Teams,” a new online event taking place April 30.
For more information and registration, head here: https://www.eventcreate.com/e/aitransformation4design
For more about Jesse James Garrett, and his coaching and AI consulting practices visit https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
For more about Peter Merholz, his organizational effectiveness, leadership development, and coac...
69: In a World of AI, What is the Work Really About? (ft. Jorge Arango)
Show Notes
For more about Jorge, visit https://jarango.com/
For the Claude skills he discusses, visit: https://github.com/jorgearango/llmapper-skill
To learn more about Jesse and Peter’s Intentional Design Leadership Circle, starting April 15, visit https://www.eventcreate.com/e/intentionaldesignleadership
To join the first Finding Our Way Live! on April 3, visit our event page on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/events/7442678896506068992
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding...
68: AI and Design: Fundamentals and The Future (ft. Dan Saffer)
Show Notes
About the episode:
Dan Saffer—designer, author, and CMU professor—joins Peter and Jesse to take stock of design education at a moment when everything is in flux. What’s worth teaching when the tools change weekly? How do you define quality when AI can spin up a passable prototype in minutes? And what are today’s students teaching their professors about where design is headed?
Special Announcement:
Jesse and Peter are excited to announce the launch of the Intentional Design Leadership Circle, a six week cohort for director and above de...
LIMINAL—2: Liminal Mindset, Skillset, and Leadership
Show Notes
When the ground is shifting and the destination isn’t clear, how do you lead? Peter and Jesse explore the mindset and skills required to navigate the liminal moment—when old ways have dissolved but new ones haven’t taken shape. From core mindsets of maintaining situational awareness and striving for balance, to core skills around communication, persuasion and connection to build lifelines, this is a conversation about what it actually takes to lead through uncertainty.
More about Jesse: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
More about Peter: https://petermerholz.com/
Transcript
LIMINAL—2: Liminal Mindset, Skillset, and Leadership
Show Notes
When the ground is shifting and the destination isn’t clear, how do you lead? Peter and Jesse explore the mindset and skills required to navigate the liminal moment—when old ways have dissolved but new ones haven’t taken shape. From core mindsets of maintaining situational awareness and striving for balance, to core skills around communication, persuasion and connection to build lifelines, this is a conversation about what it actually takes to lead through uncertainty.
More about Jesse: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
More about Peter: https://petermerholz.com/
Transcript
LIMINAL—1: The Liminal Moment
Show Notes
When the old ways no longer hold and the new hasn’t taken shape, you’re in a liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore what it means to lead through that in-between space—navigating uncertainty without retreating to the past, letting go of what defined you, and finding opportunity in the chaos rather than being consumed by it.
More about Peter: https://petermerholz.com/
More about Jesse: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re...
LIMINAL—1: The Liminal Moment
Show Notes
When the old ways no longer hold and the new hasn’t taken shape, you’re in a liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore what it means to lead through that in-between space—navigating uncertainty without retreating to the past, letting go of what defined you, and finding opportunity in the chaos rather than being consumed by it.
More about Peter: https://petermerholz.com/
More about Jesse: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re...
65: Design—Stuck in the Middle with AI (ft. Christina Wodtke)
Show Notes
Stanford professor Christina Wodtke joins Peter and Jesse in exploring the real contradictions of AI in design and product work: revolutionary prototyping speed versus the need for critical thinking, efficiency gains versus cognitive loss, and loving the technology while hating the exploitative companies building it. She shares exactly what designers and PMs must vigilantly protect.
Christina’s blog: https://eleganthack.com/
Peter’s website: https://petermerholz.com/
Jesse’s website: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Me...
65: Design—Stuck in the Middle with AI (ft. Christina Wodtke)
Show Notes
Stanford professor Christina Wodtke joins Peter and Jesse in exploring the real contradictions of AI in design and product work: revolutionary prototyping speed versus the need for critical thinking, efficiency gains versus cognitive loss, and loving the technology while hating the exploitative companies building it. She shares exactly what designers and PMs must vigilantly protect.
Christina’s blog: https://eleganthack.com/
Peter’s website: https://petermerholz.com/
Jesse’s website: https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Me...
64: The State of Design Orgs—Growth Paths, Quality Standards, and Empowerment Gaps
Show Notes
Peter and Jesse discuss findings from Peter’s survey of 750 UX pracitioners on organizational health. Designers feel good about their work but struggle with quality standards, staffing, and career growth. Senior practitioners are the unhealthiest group. Reporting structure predicts team health. Consulting teams outperform in-house teams, where visionary design capabilities have atrophied and empowerment remains elusive.
Read the 2025 State of UX/Design Organizational Health report, including access to the survey data for your own exploration.
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merhol...
64: The State of Design Orgs—Growth Paths, Quality Standards, and Empowerment Gaps
Show Notes
Peter and Jesse discuss findings from Peter’s survey of 750 UX pracitioners on organizational health. Designers feel good about their work but struggle with quality standards, staffing, and career growth. Senior practitioners are the unhealthiest group. Reporting structure predicts team health. Consulting teams outperform in-house teams, where visionary design capabilities have atrophied and empowerment remains elusive.
Read the 2025 State of UX/Design Organizational Health report, including access to the survey data for your own exploration.
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merhol...
63: AI Means Product Needs UX More than Ever (ft. Christian Crumlish)
Show Notes
Product leader, author, and civic tech veteran Christian Crumlish joins Peter and Jesse to discuss his transition from UX to product management and his experimental AI product manager, Piper Morgan. The conversation explores how product and design roles can be natural allies rather than adversaries, where AI truly adds value versus hype, and how practitioners can thoughtfully adopt new tools while staying grounded in fundamental UX principles and maintaining agency over their practice.
Find Christian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mediajunkie/
Find Jesse at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
...
63: AI Means Product Needs UX More than Ever (ft. Christian Crumlish)
Show Notes
Product leader, author, and civic tech veteran Christian Crumlish joins Peter and Jesse to discuss his transition from UX to product management and his experimental AI product manager, Piper Morgan. The conversation explores how product and design roles can be natural allies rather than adversaries, where AI truly adds value versus hype, and how practitioners can thoughtfully adopt new tools while staying grounded in fundamental UX principles and maintaining agency over their practice.
Find Christian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mediajunkie/
Find Jesse at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
...
62: Design as Differentiator in a World of AI (ft. Andrew Hogan)
Show Notes
Figma’s Head of Insights Andrew Hogan joins Peter and Jesse to explore emerging trends in design practice as AI transforms creative workflows. The conversation examines how role boundaries are blurring across product teams, where AI delivers real value versus hype, and design’s growing opportunity to lead strategic orchestration in increasingly complex digital experiences.
Find Andrew on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahhogan/.
Learn more about Jesse James Garrett and his coaching and consulting at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Learn more about Peter Merholz and his digital book “Design Org Dim...
62: Design as Differentiator in a World of AI (ft. Andrew Hogan)
Show Notes
Figma’s Head of Insights Andrew Hogan joins Peter and Jesse to explore emerging trends in design practice as AI transforms creative workflows. The conversation examines how role boundaries are blurring across product teams, where AI delivers real value versus hype, and design’s growing opportunity to lead strategic orchestration in increasingly complex digital experiences.
Find Andrew on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahhogan/.
Learn more about Jesse James Garrett and his coaching and consulting at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Learn more about Peter Merholz and his digital book “Design Org Dim...
61: The Paradoxes of Product Discovery (ft. Teresa Torres)
Show Notes
Product Discovery coach, teacher, and author Teresa Torres joins Peter and Jesse to explore the messy reality of organizational change and cross-functional collaboration. She discusses why external coaching has limits, how individual contributors can drive change within resistant systems, and what the rise of AI means for blurring roles between product, design, and engineering teams.
Learn more about Teresa Torres and her teaching at https://producttalk.org/
Learn more about Jesse James Garrett and his coaching and consulting at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Learn more about Peter Merholz and his new digital...
61: The Paradoxes of Product Discovery (ft. Teresa Torres)
Show Notes
Product Discovery coach, teacher, and author Teresa Torres joins Peter and Jesse to explore the messy reality of organizational change and cross-functional collaboration. She discusses why external coaching has limits, how individual contributors can drive change within resistant systems, and what the rise of AI means for blurring roles between product, design, and engineering teams.
Learn more about Teresa Torres and her teaching at https://producttalk.org/
Learn more about Jesse James Garrett and his coaching and consulting at https://jessejamesgarrett.com/
Learn more about Peter Merholz and his new digital...
60: Making the World– Design Education and Social Change (ft. Lesley-Ann Noel, PhD)
Show Notes
Help Jesse and Peter better serve you by sharing a bit more about who you are, what you’re into, and what you’d like to hear from us in this listener survey which should just a few minutes to complete. Thank you!
Summary: Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel, Dean of Design at OCAD, joins Jesse and Peter to discuss her global journey from Trinidad to Toronto, leading design education through relationships over craft, preparing students for social change, and her vision for decolonizing design while navigating the tension between academic values and industry demands.
<...60: Making the World– Design Education and Social Change (ft. Lesley-Ann Noel, PhD)
Show Notes
Help Jesse and Peter better serve you by sharing a bit more about who you are, what you’re into, and what you’d like to hear from us in this listener survey which should just a few minutes to complete. Thank you!
Summary: Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel, Dean of Design at OCAD, joins Jesse and Peter to discuss her global journey from Trinidad to Toronto, leading design education through relationships over craft, preparing students for social change, and her vision for decolonizing design while navigating the tension between academic values and industry demands.
<...59: Design Isn’t Dead, But It’s Seen Better Days (ft. John Gleason)
Show Notes
Help Jesse and Peter better serve you by sharing a bit more about who you are, what you’re into, and what you’d like to hear from us in this listener survey which should just a few minutes to complete. Thank you!
Summary: Peter and Jesse are joined by design and business consultant John Gleason. Coming up through P&G’s famous design initiative, we get his perspective on design beyond digital products, such as consumer packaged goods, we explore some significant parallels across industries and design domains with important lessons on the pi...
59: Design Isn’t Dead, But It’s Seen Better Days (ft. John Gleason)
Show Notes
Help Jesse and Peter better serve you by sharing a bit more about who you are, what you’re into, and what you’d like to hear from us in this listener survey which should just a few minutes to complete. Thank you!
Summary: Peter and Jesse are joined by design and business consultant John Gleason. Coming up through P&G’s famous design initiative, we get his perspective on design beyond digital products, such as consumer packaged goods, we explore some significant parallels across industries and design domains with important lessons on the pi...
58: AI is a Stress Test for Your UX: What Cracks Will It Show?
Show Notes
Jesse and Peter explore how AI is revealing the true value proposition of design teams. They discuss why “whoever controls the prompt controls the product” and why design leaders must understand their organization’s expectations before embracing AI. The more things change, the more they stay the same—AI may be new, but the fundamentals of design leadership remain critical.
Jesse’s presentation “The Elements of UX in the Age of AI” is now available as a digital download. Get your copy today.
Peter has just launched his masterclass “UX/Design Leadership Demys...
58: AI is a Stress Test for Your UX: What Cracks Will It Show?
Show Notes
Jesse and Peter explore how AI is revealing the true value proposition of design teams. They discuss why “whoever controls the prompt controls the product” and why design leaders must understand their organization’s expectations before embracing AI. The more things change, the more they stay the same—AI may be new, but the fundamentals of design leadership remain critical.
Jesse’s presentation “The Elements of UX in the Age of AI” is now available as a digital download. Get your copy today.
Peter has just launched his masterclass “UX/Design Leadership Demys...
57: On Being a Chief Experience Officer (ft. Amy Lokey)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is Amy Lokey, Chief Experience Officer for the enterprise software platform, ServiceNow. We’ll be talking about building a team that unifies product experience with customer experience, defining experience metrics that actually matter, investing in her own...
57: On Being a Chief Experience Officer (ft. Amy Lokey)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is Amy Lokey, Chief Experience Officer for the enterprise software platform, ServiceNow. We’ll be talking about building a team that unifies product experience with customer experience, defining experience metrics that actually matter, investing in her own...
56: Design’s Role in the Evolution of Product Management (ft. Sara Beckman)
Transcript
Jesse: Hey everybody, it’s Jesse James Garrett here. I wanted to let you know before we get into the show, we’ve got a special event coming up this week on Friday, March 28th, we are celebrating the 25th anniversary of the elements of user experience with a live 90 minute virtual seminar at 8:00 AM Pacific, 11:00 AM Eastern.
I will be talking about the elements of UX in the age of AI. We’ll be looking at the connections between the history of user experience design, and the future of artificial intelligence. You do not wa...
56: Design’s Role in the Evolution of Product Management (ft. Sara Beckman)
Transcript
Jesse: Hey everybody, it’s Jesse James Garrett here. I wanted to let you know before we get into the show, we’ve got a special event coming up this week on Friday, March 28th, we are celebrating the 25th anniversary of the elements of user experience with a live 90 minute virtual seminar at 8:00 AM Pacific, 11:00 AM Eastern.
I will be talking about the elements of UX in the age of AI. We’ll be looking at the connections between the history of user experience design, and the future of artificial intelligence. You do not wa...
55: The Maker Mindset Connecting Product, Design, and Engineering (ft. Todd Wilkens)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is Todd Wilkens, part of our leadership at Adaptive Path years ago, who has gone from design leadership to product leadership to fully integrated leadership of design, product, and technology. He’ll talk with us about his...
55: The Maker Mindset Connecting Product, Design, and Engineering (ft. Todd Wilkens)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is Todd Wilkens, part of our leadership at Adaptive Path years ago, who has gone from design leadership to product leadership to fully integrated leadership of design, product, and technology. He’ll talk with us about his...
54: At the Intersection of Design and Business, Be The Anomaly (ft. Roger Martin)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is business strategist Roger L. Martin, former Dean of the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management, who advanced the conversation about design and business with his influential work in the late 2000s.
We’ll t...
54: At the Intersection of Design and Business, Be The Anomaly (ft. Roger Martin)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. Joining us today to talk about what’s next for design is business strategist Roger L. Martin, former Dean of the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management, who advanced the conversation about design and business with his influential work in the late 2000s.
We’ll t...
53: Leading Design Through Continual Evolution (ft. Peter Skillman)
Transcript
Jesse: I’m Jesse James Garrett,
Peter: and I’m Peter Merholz.
Jesse: And we’re finding our way,
Peter: Navigating the opportunities
Jesse: and challenges
Peter: of design and design leadership,
Jesse: Welcome to the next phase. 2025 is the 100th anniversary of the Centralized Design Group at Dutch manufacturing powerhouse Philips. Current Head of Philips Design, Peter Skillman, joins us to share lessons from Philips’ century of design innovation, from light bulbs to the compact disc to healthcare technology.
We’ll also talk about the cu...
