beyond ArtLess
“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time.
Michael Kamphuis
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This episode features Mike Kamphuis, whose remarkable path to leadership in Conn-Selmer is anything but conventional. From working sprint-car pit crews and running a DJ business to announcing early ultimate fighting events and competing at a high level in bowling, Mike shares how an unusual series of opportunities shaped the mindset that now drives his work in music education.
What makes the conversation compelling is how those seemingly unrelated experiences connect through one consistent theme: a willingness to say yes, figure things out, and build solutions where none yet exist. That...
Mary Claxton
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Everything about Chris, Phil and Peter screams antiquated (anti-modern). The jokes, the tech struggles, the slow motion wheezing when attempting to sit or stand. However, our guest is the living definition of the modern music educator and performer. Mary Claxton is the director of Teaching and Learning at Music Will - the largest non-profit music program in the United States. Hundreds educators are using their forward thinking curriculum that champions Modern Band. Mary shares with us about gigging on Motown music at night and truly creative classroom experiences by day. And more information than y...
Isaac McMahon
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, we sit down with Isaac McMahon, band director at Brookings High School in South Dakota—a musician, educator, and all-around interesting human whose journey to the podium includes farms, baseball no-hitters, homemade hot sauce, and at least one extremely loud tractor tire incident.
Now in his seventh year of teaching, Isaac leads a thriving program that includes concert band, competitive marching band, pep band, jazz ensembles, music theory, and music exploration. His passion for students and teaching has earned him multiple district “BEST” awards for leader...
Buzz Kemper
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Tune in for a masterclass in mastering, mountain climbing, and music making. Buzz’s stories take you from Devil’s Tower to small-town pharmacy to collaborating with Yo-Yo Ma. So whether you’re a budding sound god, a mountain enthusiast, or just someone who loves hilarious stories from someone who’s done it all—this episode will leave you inspired, amused, and maybe a little more willing to climb those metaphorical—and literal—mountains yourself.
Learn More About Buzz Here:
https://buzzkemper.com/
https://www.instagram.com...
Rodney Dorsey
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Will Chris find a way to expand Beyond the Notes to include kazoo choirs? Will Peter make it through the entire podcast on 1 hour of sleep? Will Phil win an award for longest question ever? All of these questions will be answered - sadly testing the patience of our exasperated commuters. Oh well. The Buzzler and Bandboozler shall provide a short moment of sanity. Our guest has taught successfully in high schools and colleges throughout the country and is now director of bands at Florida State University. He is a great advocate for student...
Sarah McKoin
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, we welcome Dr. Sarah McKoin, educator, conductor, and scholar at Texas Tech University, for a conversation that blends musicianship, mentorship, and corndogs.
Dr. McKoin shares her path into higher education and conducting, reflecting on the moments and mentors that shaped her voice as a teacher and musician. From leading ensembles to preparing future musicians, she speaks candidly about the responsibility—and joy—of guiding students toward artistry, confidence, and curiosity.
What you’ll hear in this episode:
Dr. McKoin’s journey to Texas Tec...Patricia Brumbaugh
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Commuter, you are in for a treat! In this episode, we welcome the extraordinary Patricia Brumbaugh—a trailblazing conductor, educator, mentor, and lifelong advocate for musical excellence.
From her early days studying under legendary music educator John Whitwell to leading high school, collegiate, youth, and community ensembles across the country, Pat’s career reflects resilience, high standards, and deep humanity. Named Outstanding Young Band Conductor in the Nation (1984), she has built programs, conducted at major conferences, and shaped generations of musicians—many of whom are still playing today...
Eytan Wurman
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In this episode of the Beyond ArtLess Podcast, we dig into Common Time Pathways, a smarter, saner way to connect music students and colleges. Born from one band director’s “why is this so hard?” moment, the platform organizes recruiting data and levels the playing field for programs of all sizes—no dusty spreadsheets required.
Founder Eytan Wurman joins us to explain how their matching algorithm pairs students with colleges based on majors, interests, and financial fit, all while keeping data more secure than the locked percussion room. We also look ahead as...
Steven Campbell
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, we’re thrilled to welcome Steve Campbell, tubist with the Minnesota Orchestra, for a conversation that goes well beyond the low notes.
Steve shares what it’s really like to build a career in one of the world’s great orchestras—from the discipline and dedication behind orchestral excellence to the humor, humility, and humanity that keep music-making joyful. Along the way, he reflects on practice, preparation, and the often-unsung role of the tuba in shaping the sound and soul of an ensemble.
What y...
Andrew Mast
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Welcome to this week’s super spreader episode compliments of Phil Ostrander. After recovering from our Midwest illnesses your hosts welcome Andy Mast, Associate Dean of the Conservatory at Lawrence University. Andy shares his journey from a high school tuba player to a recognized educator and administrator, providing insights into effective mentorship, navigating career transitions, and fostering collaboration across music communities. Whether you're an aspiring teacher, seasoned conductor, or music administrator, Andy’s stories and advice offer valuable guidance for growth and success. PLUS a fun Rappin’ with Songer and a Band Boozler that m...
Compilation 5: 2025 Midwest Clinic Series
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This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
FREE...
Compilation 4: 2025 Midwest Clinic Series
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This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
FREE...
Compilation 3: 2025 Midwest Clinic Series
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This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
FREE...
Compilation 2: 2025 Midwest Clinic Series
Send us Fan Mail
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
REGISTER NOW:
BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):
https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education
FREE...
Compilation 1: 2025 Midwest Clinic Series
Send us Fan Mail
This Beyond ArtLess episode was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2025 Midwest Clinic. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
FREE MUSIC:
Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)
https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0
Beyond The Notes Music Festival (Erika Svanoe “Fanfare on Joy To The World”...
Heidi & Dan Joosten
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A first for the podcast – a brother and sister tandem. Heidi and Dan (and their musician sister Sara) were destined for music from an early age – even though enrolling in college in unrelated fields. Their parents, Beth and Mike Joosten have been music education fixtures in Wisconsin – now taking that approach to their woodworking business. Heidi has been conducting multiple national tours of sound and screen shows, and also continues to compose, play piano and harp. Dan is band director at Edgerton High School and also the Edgerton and Verona Community Bands. Peter, Phil and Ch...
Jodie Blackshaw
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Beyond Artless: Featuring Composer Jodie Blackshaw
In this episode of Beyond Artless, we are honored to welcome Jodie Blackshaw, internationally performed composer, educator, and creative voice whose music speaks with honesty, courage, and deep emotional resonance.
Jodie shares her journey into composition and the stories behind writing music that asks conductors and performers to truly create. From embracing vulnerability in the creative process to navigating the responsibilities of writing meaningful, inclusive repertoire, she reflects on what it means to compose with purpose in today’s musical world.
...Tony Baker
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Once again, this podcast manages to leave our guest feeling both uncomfortable and slightly disoriented. Today’s show features the incredible trombonist, educator, and all-around human gem Tony Baker, Professor of Trombone at the University of North Texas. Tony came prepared to talk about his education, experiences, and mentors—what he didn’t expect was a surprise visit from the 1996 Valleyfair Beach Band (of which he was a proud member). Add in a Band Buzzler, a Band Boozler, and the Coach, and you’ve got one unforgettable episode guaranteed to leave you just as uncom...
Matt Turek
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A giant leap across the pond to Germany for the podcast today with our guest, Matt Turek. Matt has taught in just about every capacity one can - from elementary general and high school band in an urban environment to middle school suburban to now Grade 1-10 Music at an International School on the outskirts of Hamburg, Germany. Matt is not afraid of teaching at any level! Sadly, Peter should be afraid of endless prattle, Chris should be afraid of dated references in the classroom and Phil should be afraid of stumbling into act...
Tony Boldt
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, we sit down with Tony Boldt, a passionate educator and musician from Kasson-Mantorville Schools, whose leadership and creativity continue to shape the musical experiences of young performers in his community.
Tony shares his journey as both a teacher and a performer—reflecting on how music shaped his life, what fuels his work in education, and the joys (and occasional chaos) that come with directing student musicians. With authenticity, humor, and heart, Tony blends musicianship with mentorship in a way that reminds us why mu...
Deanna Swoboda
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Fresh off the heels of our first — and let’s be honest, probably our only — live episode recording at the Wisconsin State Music Conference, we’re back and better than ever with an incredible guest: dynamic tuba artist and educator Deanna Swoboda. From her early inspirations to her innovative “Band Blast Off” program, Deanna takes us on a journey of how she’s brought the mighty tuba into the global spotlight. We dive into her entrepreneurial spirit, her mentorship of women in music, and how she manages to juggle artistry, education, and business w...
Kristen Kirch
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The losing battle for interesting banter continues this week. Phil’s most interesting question is about fish fry. Chris inches closer to a podcast sponsorship. Peter details the finer points of Bismarck nightlife. Kristen Kirch saves our hosts from themselves to talk about a life in music education and restaurant ownership. Now director of both the middle and high school bands at Chequamegon, Kristen loves small town teaching. Clearly, her students, parents, administrators, custodial staff, school board and everyone else loves her back. Step back and learn why it is great to teach in a smal...
Allison Mottaz
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This week on Beyond Artless, we welcome the dynamic and delightfully down-to-earth Alli Mottaz, an instrumental music educator, percussionist, and all-around creative powerhouse from Waconia, Minnesota.
Alli shares her journey from dreaming of playing for the WNBA to becoming an award-winning band director (with a soft spot for the Jonas Brothers and crocheting on the side). Now in her ninth year of teaching, Alli opens up about the realities of music education — the laughter, the learning curves, and the lessons that stick long after the bell rings.
What you’ll h...
William Owens
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With over 300 compositions to his credit, Willie Owens is a common name in music education. We sit down with Willie to chat about his 30 years of teaching band in Texas, his approach to honor bands, influential mentors, his recent honorary doctorate from VanderCook, presidential history, and corvettes. Peter brought not one but two beverages, Phil looked confused, and Chris continued to struggle with creating complete sentences. Thank goodness for Eric Songer and his students for another installment of Rapping with Songer.
Check Our NEW Website and c...
Dean Sorenson
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Commuter – nearly every one of you has either conducted or played a chart written by the great Dean Sorenson. We get a chance to chat with Dean about subpar bus driving, almost missing a gig with Rosemary Clooney (George’s mom) and more. Phil was prepared (but you would never know it), Chris sets the bar low with his first question and Peter develops his jazz hands skill set. Specialist/coach Tim Gleason offers pointed critique of hosts and praise for the guest. Eric Songer and his students pose a great question to the host...
Jennifer Rogholt
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In this heartfelt episode of Beyond Artless, we shine a spotlight on Jennifer Rogholt — a dedicated band mom whose tireless support and advocacy for music education has made a lasting impact on students, directors, and entire school communities.
Jennifer shares her perspective on what it means to be a parent, volunteer, and champion for the arts. From late-night band trips to organizing fundraisers, she reflects on the joy, challenges, and profound rewards of supporting young musicians.
What you’ll hear in this episode:
Jennifer’s journey as a p...John McCallister
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We all know John McCallister for the incredible free resources he shares on his website—but there’s so much more to this remarkable human. Join us for an enlightening and joyful conversation with John, whose heart is even bigger than the treasure trove of materials he offers online.
John McCallister AMAZING Website: https://www.johnmcallistermusic.com/
Watch: The Last Repair Shop
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29118186/
Herb Alpert Donation Story
https://abc7.com/post/music-legend-herb-alpert-donates-1-mil...
Reid Wixson
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In mid-season stride, our guest Reid Wixson shares with us on arts advocacy, affording opportunities to all students and Mumbai, India. Peter shares chewing ice cubes, Chris still distracted by the Packer game and Phil continues his quest for an articulate question (or really any coherent question). See if you can guess Paul Kile's Band Buzzler! Don’t forget - Beyond Artless LIVE at the WMEA conference. Thursday, October 30 at 2:45 PM, Monona Terrace Ballroom A. Bring your friends, enemies and frenemies.
https://swhs-instrumental-music.weebly.com/meet-mr-wixson.html
https://www.mprnews...
Jason Caslor
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, we welcome Jason Caslor, conductor, educator, and Director of Bands at Arizona State University. Known for his innovative programming and collaborative spirit, Jason brings a unique perspective to the world of wind band conducting and music-making.
Jason opens up about the art of leading ensembles, the importance of creating meaningful musical experiences, and how conductors can foster creativity, trust, and connection within a group. He also shares personal stories about his journey from Canada to the U.S., lessons learned from mentors, and...
Bob Habersat
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What happens when a music teacher decides to meet students where they are and to develop new ways to engage all learners through music? You get Bob Habersat, owner and author of Shed The Music, who is part teacher, part tech wizard, and potentially a hand model.
In this episode, Bob dives into:
His relentless drive to find new ways to support and connect with his studentsHis amazing suite of videos and curricula available on his website: Shedthemusic.netHow technology can rescue teachers from explaining bass clef until retirementWhat it...Lauren Buss
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This day is a long time coming. After one year teaching, our guest Lauren Buss speaks more intelligently and inspirationally than our hosts combined. Lauren enlightens us on how to play a piano with a sledgehammer, the fine art of crochet and the puzzle of “jeans on” hot-tubbing. Peter, Phil and Chris are blessedly quiet in this episode that introduces all of us to a fabulous first year band director. Tim Gleason attempts to clearly define his role as “coach” on Beyond Artless. Of course, you will have to listen to find out what mystery...
Russell Peterson
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In this episode of Beyond Artless, Peter brings us the extraordinary saxophonist, composer, and educator Russell Peterson, professor of saxophone, bassoon, and jazz at Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota.
Russell shares his journey as a multifaceted musician—spanning classical, jazz, and contemporary performance—while offering insights into the art of balancing tradition with innovation. From the practice room to the stage, he reflects on the challenges and joys of being a performer and teacher, and the role of music as a bridge between genres, people, and communities.
Wh...
Season 4 Teaser
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Season 1 - "Hope"
Season 2 - "Return of the Jackasses"
Season 3 - "The FCC Strikes Back"
Season 4 - "Still Unfunded, Still Unfunny" - Episode one drops Saturday, Aug 30.
Support the show
Dr. Tim Lautzenheiser
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You've heard the phrase, "needs no introduction." Well, our final guest of Season 3 truly fits the bill—Dr. Tim Lautzenheiser joins us for an inspiring conversation about leading through turbulent times, serving others, and making the most of every moment.
If you’re only tuning in for one episode this season (and we know that’s a real possibility), this is the one to catch.
Thank you, commuters, for an incredible season. We’ll see you in the fall!
Recording Credits
"Tock" - JaRod Ha...
Matt Pivec
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What happens when you get three Gleasons who play tuba in the same ArtLess episode?
Chaos. Pure, brass-fueled chaos.
Fortunately, we’re joined by the ever-talented Matt Pivec, who brings not only his impressive musical accomplishments but also a touchdown story you truly have to hear to believe. Matt shares insights on balancing multiple interests, pushing back against the pressure to specialize too early, and how improvisation in education goes far beyond jazz solos.
The conversation weaves through student engagement, the power of storytelling in the cl...
John Lynch
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Show Notes:
A week late, you say? So is our comedic and musical timing.
You know who does have great timing? Dr. John Lynch, Director of Bands at UW-Stevens Point. It was a real treat to hear about his musical journey—one that’s taken him all around the globe (literally).
In this episode, Dr. Lynch shares his perspective on cultural differences between Australia and the U.S., the importance of repertoire choices, the pursuit of quality in music, and the irreplaceable value of live performance.
Fran Kick
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There are leaders and there are followers. Thankfully, Fran Kick joins us this week to lead us through a delightful conversation. Granted, Peter, Phil and Chris DO get lost multiple times but Fran gracefully get us back on track. Check out Fran's amazing videos, resources, and books including the "Have to, Get to, Want to" video and article in the show notes!
Show Notes:
Learn more about Fran here:
https://www.kickitin.com/
Have to, Get to, Want...
Our Biggest Interview Fail - Sorry Owen! By The Way Who Are You?
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We saved the best for last. Enjoy our final interview from our Midwest 2024 booth. This interview features our good friend Owen. Where is he from? Don't know. What does he do? Not sure? What does he look like? Don't have a picture. Was he fun to interview? YES - in fact, he was amazing! Too bad you won't get to hear it.
We know we continue to meet, and perhaps, surpass your expectations each and every week. You can look forward to five more episodes this season. Who knows what will h...
Midwest 2024 Compilation 2
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This Beyond ArtLess Short was captured during our live recording sessions at the 2024 Midwest Clinic. A heartfelt thank you to Eric Songer and John Stewart for stepping in as guest hosts for several episodes. We’re especially grateful to everyone who willingly stopped by to participate in an interview—and to those who accidentally wandered down the wrong aisle and found themselves part of the action, our sincere apologies!
Want to find out more about the Beyond The Notes Festival or ComMission Possible Project? Click here...
Michael Markowski
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Phil asked one truly insightful question—alongside a few not-so-great ones—but we’re incredibly proud of how much he’s grown. Peter made an impressive comeback in PPTD, while Chris continues to meet challenges head-on (bless his heart). This week’s guest is the complete opposite of your usual hosts—thoughtful, intelligent, kind, and wildly creative. What a joy it was to chat with Michael Markowski about his music, his mentorship, and the magic behind his creative process.
Show Notes:
https://www.michaelmarkowski.com/
Recordin...
