In this episode, we speak with Maddy McCormack, a social worker early in her career, about the realities of stepping into practice with children and families.

Maddy reflects on her route into the role, what day-to-day social work actually looks like, and what she’s had to learn beyond training to be effective in her first year. We explore how she builds relationships with young people and their families, especially in contexts of risk, conflict, and uncertainty.

She speaks candidly about the emotional demands of the work — including doubt, moral distress, and the cases that stay...

 In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed.

Sharon reflects candidly on what it meant to become the focus of public anger—labelled, scrutinised, and ultimately removed from her role—despite leading a service that had been judged as “good” by Ofsted. We explore the personal toll of that experience and the powerful social and political forces that demand accountability in the wake of tragedy.

Drawing on psychoanalytic and social th...

In this episode of the Messy Social Work podcast, we begin with a conversation with Natasha Dube, before Rich and Tim discuss Liz Bosanquet’s new book, Systemic Social Work Practice. The discussion explores how systemic ideas can move beyond theory and into everyday practice, helping practitioners think relationally about families, organisations and the wider systems shaping people’s lives. A conversation about curiosity, context, relationships and what systemic practice looks like in the reality of social work.

Link to Book 

https://uk.jkp.com/products/systemic-social-work-practice

Relational Activism: https://www.r...

In this second bonus episode, Rich, Tim and Charlotte build directly on Part 1, turning their attention to the four remaining ideas from Rich’s blog on resilience in social work and exploring how these play out in practice.

The conversation moves beyond individual productivity and into the ethical and emotional costs of working under sustained pressure. Drawing on Vikki Reynolds’ work, the episode explores burnout not as a personal failing, but as a response to spiritual pain, moral distress and ethical trespassing – the harm that occurs when social workers are repeatedly required to act against their values within...

This episode explores time management as both a practical challenge and a lived experience in social work. Rich shares techniques such as Stephen Covey’s urgent and important quadrants, Cal Newport’s time blocking and the difference between deep and shallow work, while also being honest about how difficult these are to sustain in real practice. The conversation moves into presence, stress and pragmatism, recognising that social workers are often pulled between statutory timelines, emotional labour, family needs and constant interruptions. Tim brings in Barbara Adam’s work on time and temporality, alongside Shakespeare’s “time is out of joint”, to...

This bonus episode picks up where the previous conversation left off. Rich and Tim return to six years of journals to explore the next three themes that emerged — the ones that didn’t fit neatly, resolve cleanly, or offer easy lessons.

They begin with work and purpose, tracing how Rich’s journals reveal a constant back‑and‑forth: ambition and exhaustion, pride and resentment, meaning and burnout. They talk about the pressure to have impact, the cost of carrying work into every corner of life, and what it’s like to slowly admit that a role you can...

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with six years of personal journals and ask a simple but uncomfortable question: what actually changed?

They focus on the first three themes that stood out when Rich reread everything back.

First, Rich reflects on the long arc of his mental health — how early journal entries framed exhaustion, irritability and low mood as problems of discipline, productivity, or personal failure, and how long it took before he had the language to name depression honestly. They talk about what it’s like to believe gratitude should canc...

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined by therapist and writer Jamie Crabb to explore his powerful article Care, and Being Seen in the Presence of the Enigmatic.

Jamie reflects on what care really asks of us when things don’t make sense—when distress can’t be easily named, understood, or fixed. Drawing on his own experience of the care system, his therapeutic work, and psychoanalytic ideas, we talk about what it means to be “seen” when what is being communicated is embodied, relational, and often uncomfortable.

The conversation moves thro...

Janet Kay is a prominent kinship carer, trustee for the charity Kinship, and OBE recipient who advocates for families in England raising relatives' children. Based in Sheffield, she has cared for her grandson since he was 18 months old, advocating for better financial and practical support, and overcoming the "dump and run" lack of resources for caregivers. 

Key Aspects of Janet Kay's Work and Experience:

Professor Jonathan Scourfield is a leading UK academic in social work, currently based at Cardiff University. His work spans child welfare, social care inequalities, suicide and self‑harm research, and working with men across the life course 

This one https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6079816tests if participation quality (i.e., how well families said their voice was heard) was linked to outcomes and finds that yes it was, though not for all outcomes we measured. 

This paper https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/s7f8g_v1 compares FGCs at three stages of t...

A few years ago, Rich carried out an assessment that concluded Juliette couldn’t safely care for her children. It was a difficult moment, shaped by years of substance misuse, trauma, and repeated involvement from services.

That assessment recommended residential rehabilitation.

Juliette went on to take that step.

In this conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Juliette about what was happening in her life at the time, why previous support hadn’t led to lasting change, and what was different about rehab. She shares openly about addiction, domestic abuse, and the reality of tryi...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Connect with Ethan here: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Connect with Ethan here: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in care, and the training required to develop relational skills. Mark emphasizes the significance of peer support and the challenges faced in implementing Open Dialogue in various settings. The conversation also touches on the role of evidence in validating Open Dialogue practices and the future of this approach in mental health care.

Mark's presentation at the Thrive...

In this episode, we speak with Dr Mina Fazel, a British psychiatrist who is Professor and Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Oxford. Her research considers the mental health of children and young people, and how to design effective mental health interventions.

We talk to her about a recent paper: Adolescent consent and Generation Alpha: bridging policy, practice and empirical evidence in healthcare, you can download it here: 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/adolescent-consent-and-generation-alpha-bridging-policy-practice-and-empirical-evidence-in-healthcare/1773C8B49A361BB55747FF7BD80F...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

This week, we speak to Seana, a social worker in a Child in Care Team. 

We explore what her role involves, how she builds relationships with young people, carers, and families, and the challenges she faces—as well as what helps her keep going. 

We’re really grateful to Seana for taking the time to talk with us, especially given how busy the role is. We hope you enjoy her passion, child‑centred practice, and commitment to the work as much as we did.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Chi...

In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative” and calling for learning cultures and belonging in teams. The episode then widens out into ecology, community, and power, touching on what it means to “think global, act local,”...

In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative” and calling for learning cultures and belonging in teams. The episode then widens out into ecology, community, and power, touching on what it means to “think global, act local,”...

Rich and Tim are back in the studio of the Messy Social Work Podcast, shaking off the holiday cobwebs and diving straight into the age-old tradition of New Year’s resolutions. Tim’s on a mission to set some firm boundaries, while Rich is dreaming of carving out a little breathing space—because who doesn’t need that in social work?

But that’s not all. We’ve got our roving news correspondent and Community Care editor, Mithran Samuels, joining us to give the lowdown on what’s changing across children’s social care and what’s on the horizon for...

Rich and Tim are joined by Andrew Turnell to reflect on 2025.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker. 

 We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really about “helping,” and why conflict sits at the heart of the work we do. Donald shares the stories behind some of his most memorable anecdotes—from the baseball bat incident to the £20 haircut—and what they taught him about dignity, power, and human connection.

 We dig into whether there’s space for love in social work, how rights...

Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under intense pressure, Charlotte shares insights from her early career journey, reporting from the frontline and reflects on the relational skills that matter most. 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/i...

Full research and report found here

https://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma.

 We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhood, victim mentality and the victim complex.

 We also reflect on McGarvey’s honesty about his own na...

In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization. 

See paper here which is available OPEN ACCESS. 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.lin...

In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo. 

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. 

Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice.

We talk about:

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersectionality in Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews: 

https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live:

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/02/children-in-care-should-have-choice-of-where-and-with-whom-they-live-says-macalister/

 Applications to register children’s homes are rocketing, such that Ofsted is having to prioritise applications, leaving others having to wait up to 18 months.

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/13/some-childrens-homes-face-waits-of-up-to-18-months-to-register-under-new-ofsted-policy/

 Also, spending on looked-after children ate up all of the increase in spending in children’s services in 2024-25, with such spending pressures generally attributed to significant rises in residential care costs.

In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support.

We explore:

 In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practice. 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

In this episode, Rich and Tim: How to Succeed at Failing, we reflect on the times we’ve got it wrong — professionally and personally — and explore why failure isn’t just inevitable, but essential. From missteps to lessons learned, we talk about how embracing failure can lead to growth, insight, and even unexpected success.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfishe...

In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child protection and foster care often diverge from evidence and practice realities.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social work must be both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. A must-listen for anyone interested in the heart, history, and future of social work.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich...

Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing.

Connect with Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-crouch-257ab2248/

Check out the hopeful disruptors event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/reshaping-the-landscape-of-childrens-social-work-tickets-1374435115429?aff=oddtdtcreator

Relati...

Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/psw-networks-sound-alarm-over-social-work-england-fee-rise/

 In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities. 

Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence. 

Whether you’re looking to improve your day-to-day practice, strengthen your professional voice, or even open unexpected doors, this episode makes the case for why every social worker should write.

Relati...