Blue Grit Radio: the Police Performance Podcast: Mindset, Wellness, Leadership

40 Episodes
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By: Eric Tung

Welcome to Blue Grit Radio: the podcast for police officers, first responders, and service-minded leaders who want to elevate their performance in career and life.  Hosted by Eric Tung, an active police leader, trainer, and mentor, this show explores topics, lessons, and resources, for listeners with to achieve professional excellence and personal resilience.Each episode features raw conversations, actionable insights, and interviews with leaders in law enforcement, wellness experts, veterans, and high performers who share their lessons on overcoming adversity, leading with purpose, and creating positive change in their first responder and organizational culture.Whether you’re a rookie, veteran off...

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343: GOOD GRIT - How a Kid is Helping Others Dream Again, and How You Can Help!
Today at 12:00 PM

This job (and life) affords countless examples of inspirational things that humans are capable of.  It's that much more impactful and awe striking when it's one of our youth- shining a beacon of what's possible.

I saw this young man, Atharv, at a local council presentation as he shared about how his personal medical challenges as a kid, and seeing other kids struggling with devastating diagnoses inspired him to start his own non-profit.  He came up with the idea of taking kids' drawings of characters and creating 3D printed renderings, so they could hold their actual creations in...


342: Moral Injury, Police & First Responders, Pathways & Prevention, Dr. Brooke Bartlett returns
08/17/2026


In this episode, Dr. Brooke Bartlett returns and discusses the concept of moral injury, its pathways, contributing factors, and strategies for recognition and support within public safety and military communities.

Key Insights:

The three pathways to moral injuryThe role of perception in experiencing moral injuryContributing factors like organizational policies and societal perceptionsStrategies for peer support and leadership to mitigate moral injuryThe importance of normalizing emotional responses and encouraging open dialogue

You can contact Dr. Brooke on prior Blue Grit Radio episodes 63 and 115.

and https://www.linkedin.com/in/drbartlettphd/

 #moral i...


341: Good GRIT - On & Off Duty Passions, Car Crash Rehab & Police, Limitless Momentum, w/ Ariana Stone
08/10/2026

In this episode, Ariana Stone shares her inspiring journey of resilience, mental health advocacy, and leadership in first responder communities. We explore her personal experiences: grappling with extreme physical injury and rehab, innovative police programs like co-response units, building a brand that is helping first responder mental health, and practical advice for mental wellness and professional growth.

Ariana is an active police officer and the founder of Limitless Momentum. She is a returning guest from the highly popular FTO panel episode, #192.

Find out more at: https://limitlessmomentum.us/

#resilience #mentalhealth #firstresponders #coresponseunits #leadership...


340: Police & Martial Arts, Training, Identity & More! w/ Jason Harney
08/03/2026

Story-telling is a key element core to our human existence, and is one that is unmatched in teaching, depicting, and building understanding.  My guest, Jason Harney, retired Las Vegas Metro sergeant and veteran turned documentary creator joins me to discuss themes emergent from his career, necessity for legitimate training, and complex issues in policing lives and careers.

We explore the dynamics of the policing industry, shifting culture, mental health, the importance of continuous learning, and how to transition into life after policing.  Jason shares with deep perspective from his time on the street, FTO, DT instructor, investigations, re...


339: Highs and Lows, Working K-9 Units & Rocky Mentality w/Chris Bingham
07/29/2026

There's a saying in K-9 work: the only thing two handlers can agree on... is that the third is messed up.  

Luckily this isn't real true, as my guest Chris Bingham and I have much we agree on.  There's another more significant saying in K-9 work - which is that the assignment will bring you the highest highs and lowest lows.  

Chris shares about his career in federal police work, and how his career evolved with key leadership, mentorship, and sponsorship.  We talk about the unique challenges and bonds with our K-9 partners and connect over...


338: Identity and Stoicism for Resilience, w/ Alec Wons
07/21/2026

Alec Wons is something(s) else.  You may recognize he's the name, voice, and mind behind The Chief Exchange podcast.  Getting to flip the mics and get him on the interviewed side of the table, I've truly enjoyed learning more about his own story and how he arrived here, truly innovating the perspective by which we can integrate leadership and wellness- of individuals and organizations.

He's an innovator, an expander, a self-developer.  It didn't take me long in conversations pre-recording to recognize how much of an abundance mindset he carries, mixed with an appreciation with integrating old kno...


337: TRUST - How Bosses Trash it and How we Rebuild it, w/ Christine Townsend (pt. 2)
07/15/2026

In this episode, Christine Townsend returns and we highlight key lessons for building, repairing, and fostering trust for leaders.

In the last episode, we discussed her story, various roles in policing and experiences as an impetus to research and dive into all things about the concept.  Here, we discuss the critical role of trust in organizations, especially in law enforcement, exploring how societal shifts, organizational culture, and leadership impact trust levels. 

The conversation offers practical insights on building institutional courage, fostering authenticity, and enhancing self-trust to improve morale, performance, and community relations.

Key To...


336: Broken Trust is Killing Your Organization, and What to Do About it, Christine Townsend pt. 1
07/13/2026

In this insightful interview, Christine Townsend shares her unique journey from journalism to policing and her deep exploration of trust, moral courage, and mental health in first responder communities.  We use her book (Trust) as a jump-off point for key themes that affect every relationship, perception, and organization.

She shares how trust underpins organizational culture, personal resilience, and effective leadership, with practical insights on fostering trust and well-being.

We discuss:

Trust as the foundation of organizational and interpersonal relationsThe role of moral courage in leadership and ethicsMental health challenges and innovative therapies like ketamine-assisted p...


335: Ice Bath, Sauna, Red Light, Vagus Nerve Recovery Every Agency Needs, w/ Rich Ganley
07/09/2026

Our bodies and minds get beat up by the job.  The gear wearing down our posture, backs and hips.  Our mainstays of caffeine and cortisol, the long shifts and hypervigilance rollercoaster that can feel like a crash out, or even scarier... like total numbness.  There's something real, tangible, and scientific we can do about it all.

In this episode, Rich Ganley shares his inspiring journey, focusing on proactive health strategies for first responders. Discover the ins and outs of innovative tools like red light therapy, grounding, sauna, and cold water immersion that enhance recovery, resilience, and overall wel...


334: The Undead or the Un-Living? Crash & Lost Purpose in First Responder Work, w/ Jon Vargas
07/06/2026

How many people are just going through the motions.. surviving...autopilot?  Simply existing, sub-optimally, and not LIVING?  In our high-stress, high-paced first responder careers, it's all too common.  I'm excited to feature Jon Vargas, deep thinker, firefighter, podcast host of the Grab Lives Podcast. 

Jon and I connected on his show, re-aired here in ep. 288, where we discussed the decline of first responder jobs and hypervigilance dynamics. In this follow up conversation, we talk on:

Illusion of control and reactive responseNihilistic collapse and loss of purposeThe role of trust and vulnerabilityPractical strategies for resilience and self-awareness

Jo...


333: Warriors in First Responder Work, Understanding and Supporting the Warrior Archetype
06/29/2026

As first responders, you face intense pressure and trauma daily. But what does it really take to build mental resilience in such demanding roles? In this episode, we’ll explore key insights shared by Matt Domyancic analyzing the Warrior archetype which we often (over)identify with in first responder work.  We discuss fostering meaningful psychological strength and wellness beyond the "go harder" mentality which works...until it doesn't. 

Listen along to explore how understanding how pause, humility, and integrating diverse psychological tools can foster greater resilience and wellbeing within the high-stakes worlds of police, fire, and military. This...


332: Empty Leadership, How to Spot It, and What to Do to Fix It
06/22/2026

In this insightful interview, retired police chief Kristen Ziman shares her leadership journey, the importance of humility, embracing continuous learning, and fostering a culture of curiosity and respect within law enforcement. Discover practical strategies for authentic leadership, overcoming imposter syndrome, and building resilient teams.

Leadership humility and continuous learningBuilding a culture of curiosity and respectful dissentOvercoming imposter syndrome and self-doubtThe role of vulnerability and authenticity in leadershipStrategies for fostering agency culture and influence

Kristen Ziman is a dynamic leader and keynote speaker known for her transformative impact across various industries. With over 20 years of leadership experience, Kristen...


331: Dispatch Saved My Life from Suicide w/ fmr. Officer Tricia Small (First Responder Wellness & Resilience)
06/18/2026

“Saved by the bell.”  The phrase that accompanied a situation with mounting tension… built up the the brink. A moment of dread impending, and then a sound or other type of pattern-interrupt that stops it all…

Former officer Tricia Small joins me in this episode, where she shares her intimate near-last moments on this earth, focused on ending her life while on duty, and her journey through adversity from that moment through today.

Tricia is now an integral part of Code 4 Northwest and its expansion to assist first and frontline responders across the state with a range o...


330: Cultural Competency and Crucial Context - for First Responder, Clinicians, Family, and More
06/15/2026

"Culturally competent." The words get thrown around a lot in discussion, on mental health practitioner profiles, and first responder wellness trainer bios.  But what does it mean, and what does it include? 

In this episode, I am joined by Dr. Stacy Raymond and Lt. David Dachinger (ret.) as we delve into the mental health challenges faced by first responders and how cultural competence, innovative therapies like EMDR, and effective modeling can transform frontline mental health support. 

We discuss their book and resource being not only an expansive resource for first responders, but the clinicians who see...


329: The King Suffers, So Will the Kingdom. Ownership, Wellness, and Organization
06/10/2026

In this episode, Eric explores the timeless lessons from the legend of the Fisher King to highlight the importance of personal and organizational wellness. He emphasizes ownership, self-regulation, and the impact of morale on leadership and team performance.

Key Elements:

The legend of the Fisher King and its relevance to leadershipThe impact of personal wellness on organizational healthStrategies for self-regulation and emotional managementThe role of morale in team performance and leadershipOwnership and responsibility in personal and professional life

Questions, topic ideas and feedback? Send a line!


To stay connected with the latest...


328: The Leadership Forge: Culture by Design w/ Chief Doreen Jokerst & Major Zach Stephens
06/08/2026

This episode explores the critical role of intentional culture building within organizations, featuring insights from Chief Doreen Jokerst and Major Zach Stevens. Topics include leadership development, fostering psychological safety, and practical strategies for creating a positive organizational environment.

Chief Jokerst is a founding member of The Curve, focused on modernizing policing.  Major Stevens is leading the way with hands-on regional leadership models that develops and mentors team members with a true coaching perspective.  

Key topics:

The importance of intentionality in culture buildingLeadership development and mentorship programsCreating psychological safety in teamsThe role of everyday interactions in...


327: Lincoln on Leadership: Key Strategies and Tactics, Book Review
06/03/2026

"Lead by being led."

In this conversation, Eric reviews the book 'Lincoln on Leadership' by Donald T. Phillips, exploring the leadership principles exemplified by Abraham Lincoln during one of the most tumultuous times in American history. 

The discussion highlights key concepts such as the importance of values, flexibility, persuasion over coercion, maintaining hope, engaging with public opinion, empowering teams, and the role of compromise in effective leadership. Eric emphasizes that these lessons are applicable across various fields and industries, making them relevant for leaders at all levels.

Lincoln was known for his high integrity a...


326: Real Responder Resources: What's Next? w/ Code 4 NW, Nick Bauer & Andy McCurdy
06/01/2026

Who helps the helpers?  This is a question that organizations like Code 4 Northwest has been working to answer since before I started in this career nearly two decades ago.

If you didn't know much about first responder wellness or mental health resources, if you were in Washington, you knew about Code 4 NW.  In this episode, I am joined by Nick Bauer (retired Seattle PD Sgt) and returning guest Chief Andy McCurdy.  We talk about the new chapter we are moving into with statewide efforts and true real action for first responder resources.

We explore how Cod...


325: MORE Hiring Q&A for Police and Public Safety Careers
05/28/2026

In this quick episode, I answer questions that help entry-level applicants and those testing for special unit selection as well as promotions.  We cover interview tips and written test insights!

For more information check out other episodes and go to bluegritwellness.com/shop for an extensive guide for testing - so you can learn each step of the process in detail AND how to prepare.

Questions, topic ideas and feedback? Send a line!


To stay connected with the latest and exclusive content:

Subscribe to the FREE newsletter at on b...


324: Police & Purpose - through Unrest, Loss and the Grind, w/ Capt. Kory Flowers
05/26/2026

The past few years highlighted many police leaders hanging up the badge - often with their sharing about how it just wasn't worth it anymore.  I'm glad to be able to connect with and feature Captain Kory Flowers, who shared his enthusiasm and pride in the profession, despite what he, his team, and our industry endured.  I greatly appreciated reflecting on how we are strong, not simply in spite of adversity, but BECAUSE of the adversity.

Captain Kory Flowers shares insights on maintaining purpose, resilience, and positivity in policing amidst challenges like social unrest, personal loss, and th...


323: GOOD GRIT: Reality of Resilience, Donna Brown Returns - Responder Advocate & Trainer, Author, Police Sgt. ret.
05/21/2026

I am grateful to premiere the new GOOD GRIT series, focused on people doing genuinely GOOD stuff out there in the community.  Who better to kick this off than returning guest Donna Brown, mental health advocate, trainer and retired police sergeant?? (from ep. 32!)

Donna, a retired homicide detective and author, shares her insights on resilience, identity, and the importance of gratitude in navigating life's challenges. Donna’s experience as a first responder, her reflections on mental health, and some of her own health challenges and reflections are shared to help us gain pause, presence, and clarity.  Her comm...


322: The REAL Gift of Gab to Build Police Teams and Save Lives w/ Alex Mann
05/18/2026

In this engaging interview, Alex Mann shares insights on the art of communication, de-escalation, and adaptability in policing, drawing from his 28-year career and unique experience in improv comedy. Discover practical techniques for effective community engagement, the importance of flexibility, and how humor can be a powerful tool in law enforcement.

The Importance of Communication in Policing
Improv and Humor as De-escalation Tools
Redefining Winning in Policing
The Art of Adaptability in Policing
Real-World Application of Improv Techniques
Acknowledging Reality and Building Trust
Leadership Through Collaboration and Humility
The Power...


321: No More Performance Evals? Why they aren't Effective and What to do Instead, w/ Chief Scott Hughes
05/11/2026

We all know evals are generally ineffective. They're check boxes, and often don't reflect objectively across the ranks.  

In this conversation, Chief Scott Hughes discusses the importance of mentorship, effective evaluations, and the need for a cultural shift in law enforcement. He emphasizes the significance of regular check-ins and positive recognition to build trust and motivate officers. The discussion also touches on the challenges of traditional performance evaluations and the role of body cameras in providing a more holistic view of officer performance. Ultimately, Hughes advocates for self-reflection and leadership that prioritizes the well-being of officers and t...


320: Ask for Help & Lose your Job? Confidentiality, Therapy Types, Sleep, L&I for First Responders, Police and Military w/ Drs. Thalia Nicholson & Larissa Tate
05/04/2026

In this conversation, Dr. Thalia Nicholson and Dr. Larissa Tate discuss the mental health challenges faced by first responders and veterans, specifically the hurdle of reaching out for help, fearing loss of badge, job, clearance, and more. 

They emphasize the importance of evidence-based treatments, the role of rapport in therapy, and the nuances of confidentiality. The discussion also covers the significance of sleep health and the barriers to seeking help, providing listeners with actionable insights and resources for mental wellness.

02:09: Meet the Experts: Dr. Thalia Nicholson and Dr. Larissa Tate

05:34: Understanding Therapy: Beyond S...


319: What's Hurting and Helping Police and Community: Chaplain Panel Perspective, w/ Jared Altic and Matt Domyancic
04/29/2026

"Pain shared is pain divided."

This conversation delves into the multifaceted role of chaplains in supporting first responders, particularly police officers. I'm joined by chaplain GREATS- Jared Altic (Hey Chaplain! podcast) and returning guest, Matt Domyancic (Tactical Chaplain fmr. police officer).  The insights go far beyond chaplain topics, but they afford us a unique view from their care for community and officers alike.

The discussion highlights the importance of building trust, the difference between proactive and reactive chaplaincy, and the essence of unconditional love in support.  Both chaplains share their experiences and insights on how to...


318: Are you ready for FIFA World Cup?! (And other Major Event Planning, Public Safety, Emergency Management)
04/27/2026

FIFA World Cup will prove to be the largest sporting event the USA has ever seen, and this will occur in just weeks.  This is the sentiment shared from not only commentators and experts in world events, sports, geo-political arenas, but public safety and emergency management leaders across the nation.

This episode explores the complexities of planning for large-scale international events like the FIFA World Cup, featuring insights from Emergency Manager of Arlington, TX Irish Hancock and Adam Saynuck from Activu.  Whether you are finishing up your own agency's FIFA prep or want tangible insights for major ev...


317: New Tools for Nervous System Regulation w/ Emily Ireland and Light Touch
04/24/2026

You carry the weight of the job in your body, whether you feel it or not.  (When you feel it.. you know it!) The nervous system doesn't forget a shift... it keeps score. Today's episode is about what happens when you stop white-knuckling through it and actually give your body a way out. We're talking craniosacral therapy, wellness tech, and the science of a nervous system that's been running hot for too long. This one's for the responder who sleeps like garbage, tries to think and perform through the fog, and wonders why "trying harder" isn't cutting it. 

...


316: Beyond Generational Talk, but what Police Leaders Need to DO about It! w/ Will Akin, Bill Fraass, & Tyler Comeaux
04/22/2026

This conversation explores far beyond the dynamics of generational differences in the workforce, but what responsible police leaders need to know and do about it all. We go into communication, motivators, and succession and strategic planning insights for crucial operations.

Joining me are three police leaders who have done thorough research and work on the topic: Sheriff Will Akin, Capt. Tyler Comeaux, and ret. Capt. Bill Fraass.  The panel discusses the importance of understanding communication gaps, the need for empathy and value in leadership, and the significance of mental health and wellness. They emphasize the necessity of a...


315: First Responder Panel: Identity Pitfalls, Lessons and Tips (pt.2) w/ Megan Amaturo, Rich Creamer, David Smith
04/13/2026

(Part 2 of 2!) In the demanding world of first responders, the concept of identity plays a crucial role in shaping how individuals perceive themselves and their roles. This podcast episode dives deep into the complexities of identity within the first responder community, featuring insights from experienced professionals who share their journeys and the challenges they face.

Host Eric opens the discussion with the observation that identity is a pervasive theme in the lives of first responders. He notes that while there is often a strong camaraderie within the profession, it can lead to an overwhelming sense of identity...


314: First Responder Panel: Identity Pitfalls, Lessons and Tips (pt.1) w/ Megan Amaturo, Rich Creamer, David Smith
04/08/2026

In the demanding world of first responders, the concept of identity plays a crucial role in shaping how individuals perceive themselves and their roles. This podcast episode dives deep into the complexities of identity within the first responder community, featuring insights from experienced professionals who share their journeys and the challenges they face.

Host Eric opens the discussion with the observation that identity is a pervasive theme in the lives of first responders. He notes that while there is often a strong camaraderie within the profession, it can lead to an overwhelming sense of identity tied solely...


313: The Threats Beneath the Surface.. Protecting our Protectors, with Ray Lankin
04/06/2026

According to the American Heart Association, nearly 50% of American adults over 20 have cardiovascular disease. For first responders, the risks are even higher. Worse, research shows that law enforcement officers have a 56% increased risk of dying from heart attacks between ages 55 and 59.

First responders are often celebrated for their bravery and commitment, but what about the hidden threats they face? While we frequently discuss visible dangers like accidents and violence, the psychological and physiological stressors that lurk beneath the surface require urgent attention. In this discussion with Ray Lankin founder of United Diagnostic Services, we will explore the...


312: Transforming & Improving Police Training: Insights from Tony Anderman
04/01/2026

In this conversation, Eric and Tony Anderman discuss the intersection of leadership, training, and culture within law enforcement. They explore the importance of effective communication, emotional intelligence, and the role of mentorship in fostering a positive police culture. Tony shares insights on training strategies, the significance of emotional connections in learning, and the need for continuous evaluation of training effectiveness. The discussion emphasizes the importance of genuine interactions, the power of storytelling, and the characteristics of great trainers in shaping the future of policing.

The power of a genuine smile can enhance community interactions.Effective training must be...


311: Your Body Keeps the Score and STRESS! Tips and Solutions in Somatic work w/ Romay Nichols
03/30/2026

In this conversation, Eric and Romay Nichols delve into the complexities of stress, particularly in the context of law enforcement and first responders. Romy shares her personal journey from experiencing severe stress and panic attacks to discovering the healing power of somatic therapy and breath work. They discuss the biological impact of stress on the body, the importance of nervous system hygiene, and practical applications of breath work for managing stress. The conversation emphasizes the need for intentional practices to process emotions and maintain mental health, especially in high-pressure professions.

Stress is often held in the body and...


310: The Problem with our "Wellness" Culture: Gurus, Hacks, and Bullies (Police, First Responders, and More)
03/27/2026

I've been seeing something very disturbing in our circles of speakers, clinicians content generators... our "community."  In the wellness space for first responders, there is a disturbing trend: tribalism and negativity. This "cutting down culture" contradicts everything wellness is supposed to promote.  This person has the answer, these people certainly don't... these people are the problem, here is the solution... and so on.

Instead of lifting each other up, we often find ourselves tearing each other down, questioning motives, and doubting contributions.  We're all human, judgement runs high and I am no exception.  However, when the jobs are...


309: Modernizing Police through Effective Training, w/ Capt. Heather Glogolich and Scott Savage (Sgt, ret.)
03/25/2026

This conversation delves into the critical intersections of training, leadership, and culture within policing. The panelists discuss the importance of professional development, the role of experience in decision-making, and the need for a supportive culture that encourages growth and mentorship. They also explore the concept of 'winning' in policing, emphasizing the need for officers to be well-prepared and capable of making sound decisions in high-stress situations. The discussion highlights the significance of community engagement and emotional intelligence in law enforcement, culminating in a reflection on The Curve as a movement aimed at professionalizing policing.

What effective, modern training...


308: Why Police Fail: Media, Public Relations and PIO, w/ Julie Parker
03/23/2026

In this conversation, Eric and Julie discuss the evolution of law enforcement communication, emphasizing the importance of transparency, authenticity, and community engagement. Julie shares her journey from media to law enforcement and highlights the need for police departments to take control of their narratives through effective use of social media. They explore the challenges of communicating during crises, the role of public information officers, and the significance of understanding the audience. The discussion also touches on the importance of sharing positive stories to build trust within the community.

Effective policing requires strong communication and trust-building.Law enforcement has...


307: THE Key to Best Interview and Written Test Tips, for Police and Public Safety Entry, Promotion, Specialty Testing
03/20/2026

Whether you are an entry level applicant, or a veteran officer seeking to get onto that high-speed unit, investigative team, or promote to the next rank, THIS quick episode is for you.  Even if you aren't.. it's still relevant!

I start off sharing a necessary insight for ALL interviews that most people sleep on.  It goes far beyond showing up on time, having good posture, and a solid handshake..

Then I roll into tips and insights of written tests, as it is a common element of entry-level as well as promotional processes (police, fire, etc as...


306: Rock Bottom to Recovery and Resilience: Police, Special Ops, Wellness Coordinator Dylan Ignacio (pt. 2)
03/18/2026

(**Part 2**) In this conversation, Eric and Dylan Ignacio explore the critical importance of wellness in law enforcement. Dylan shares his personal journey into policing, highlighting the challenges he faced with mental health and the strategies he employed to overcome them. They discuss the significance of resilience, positivity, and building healthy habits, as well as the role of community outreach in fostering trust between police and the public. Dylan emphasizes the impact of faith and service on personal growth, encouraging officers to focus on their purpose and the importance of gratitude in their daily lives.

Dylan emphasizes the importance...


305: Police at Rock Bottom, Hard Life and Career Lessons & Lift to Live, w/ Dylan Ignacio, pt. 1
03/16/2026

In this conversation, Eric and Dylan Ignacio explore the critical importance of wellness in law enforcement. Dylan shares his personal journey into policing, highlighting the challenges he faced with mental health and the strategies he employed to overcome them. They discuss the significance of resilience, positivity, and building healthy habits, as well as the role of community outreach in fostering trust between police and the public. Dylan emphasizes the impact of faith and service on personal growth, encouraging officers to focus on their purpose and the importance of gratitude in their daily lives.

Dylan emphasizes the importance of...


304: Rookie to Retiree Panel: Career Tips for Police and First Responders, w/ Greg Grogan and Doug White
03/11/2026

In this engaging panel episode, Eric hosts Doug White and Greg Grogan, both seasoned veterans in policing and podcasting. They delve into the intricate balance between career and personal life, emphasizing the importance of wellness for first responders. 

Doug shares his journey from a 25-year law enforcement career to retirement, highlighting the challenges of identity and the need for self-care. Greg, also with his extensive background in policing and military service, echoes the sentiment that mental health and physical fitness are crucial for new recruits and seasoned officers alike. The conversation flows into practical advice for maintaining b...