The Integrated Schools Podcast

 We all want what's best for our kids. But who do we include when we say "our kids"? Just the children in our homes? The kids at our school? In our district? How big are we willing to draw that circle? It might seem like a strange place to start a conversation about school funding, but as it turns out, those questions are at the heart of how we fund our public schools.

We're joined by Zahava Stadler, Director of the Education Funding Equity Initiative at New America, to help us make sense of the complicated world of...

 Ten years ago, Nikole Hannah-Jones wrote a powerful essay about choosing a predominantly Black, low-income public school for her daughter, Najya. That piece helped inspire a generation of parents to think differently about school choice, including many of us at Integrated Schools. Now, a decade later, Hannah-Jones has returned to that decision, this time through the eyes of her 16-year-old daughter, who has some very different feelings about the education she received.

Her new essay, In Fighting for Every Black Child, Did I Betray My Own?, has sparked a national conversation about school segregation, parenting, privilege, and th...

We are back! Welcome to Season 13 of The Integrated Schools Podcast. It’s been almost eight years and over 170 episodes, but as we kick off this new season, we are reflecting on where we find ourselves—as a country, as an organization, and in our own lives. Val is navigating life with a college freshman (who earned a 100% on his first African American Studies test!) and a high school senior, while Andrew is stepping into the classroom for the first time as a high school audio engineering and musical theater teacher. These real-world transitions ground us in the ongoing, messy...

As we wrap up another school year, we're taking a moment to reflect on the conversations, challenges, and lessons that shaped Season 12.

This year, we explored what it means to build belonging, strengthen community, advocate for public education, and stay connected through uncertainty. Along the way, we learned from educators, organizers, authors, students, parents, and community members who reminded us that while the challenges facing our schools are real, none of us are facing them alone.

We also hear from listeners navigating school closures, parent organizing, and the everyday joys of integrated schools. Their stories...

On the 72nd anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education, Andrew and Dr. Val sit down with Cecilia Marshall — granddaughter of Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall and founder of the newly launched Thurgood Marshall Foundation. Together, they reflect on what it means to carry forward a legacy rooted not in individual heroism, but in collective courage, sacrifice, and community responsibility.

Ms. Marshall shares intimate stories of knowing Thurgood Marshall simply as “Grandpa,” and how, only later in life, she came to understand the magnitude of his work and the sacrifices made by the families behind Brown v. Board. The...

We're revisiting our conversation with Dr. Loretta Ross because her book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You’d Rather Cancel, is the Integrated Schools book club pick for this month. You can register for one of our amazing, free book club sessions here.

We’re joined by MacArthur “Genius” and legendary activist Dr. Loretta Ross for a conversation that left us grounded, challenged, and deeply moved. From her early work in reproductive justice and anti-violence movements, to her current mission disrupting “call-out culture,” Dr. Ross offers us a path forward rooted in grace, accountability...

We’re going back to the archives today to revisit a conversation with Heather McGhee. In February of 2021, Heather McGhee’s book, The Sum of Us came out. With a focus on the ways in which racism harms everyone, and the potential good that can come from cross-racial coalitions, the book was exciting to us. When we realized that Integrated Schools was featured prominently in the chapter about education, we were blown away.

The book is based around three main concepts.  The first is the “zero-sum lie of racial hierarchy”, or the idea that progress for people of color neces...

We're joined by YA author, María Dolores Águila to uncover the largely untold story of the 1931 Lemon Grove Incident—the first successful school desegregation case in California, led by Mexican and Mexican American families.

Through her book A Sea of Lemon Trees, Maria invites us into the world of 12-year-old Roberto Alvarez, a child asked to carry the weight of his community’s fight for educational justice.

Together, we explore what it looks like when communities organize, when young people lead, and when stories become a form of power.

We can’t be what we...

What happens when we stop thinking about schools as buildings—and start seeing them as the ecosystems that hold our communities together?

In this episode, we sit with Dr. Mara Tieken to explore school closures not as isolated decisions, but as part of a broader pattern of spatial injustice—where resources, opportunities, and care are unevenly distributed based on where we live.

Together, we wrestle with a hard truth: school closures are often framed as inevitable… but what if they’re actually the result of choices—policies, priorities, and patterns of disinvestment—that we can question?

In this episode, Andrew and Dr. Val are joined by Logan Tilton, a history student at North Carolina Central University and one of the Levine Museum of the New South’s fellowship students. Together, they reflect on what it means to learn history not as a list of dates and names, but as a living story shaped by community, struggle, resilience, and collective memory.

Drawing from a powerful fellowship trip to Montgomery and Selma, Logan shares how visiting the Equal Justice Initiative sites and hearing directly from a Selma foot soldier deepened her understanding of history, accountability, and the...

When crisis comes for one of us, it comes for all of us.

In this powerful and deeply moving episode, Dr. Val and Andrew sit down with two parent leaders in Minneapolis—Carina (a White mom and longtime bridge-builder in dual language spaces) and Cisne (a Spanish-speaking immigrant mom and vice president of their dual language parent organization)—to talk about what it means to care for our community when ICE arrives at your doorstep.

What unfolds is a story about more than fear. It’s a story about relationships built long before crisis hit. About...

What does it mean to outlast backlash?

In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Danielle Wingfield—legal historian, law professor, and public education advocate—whose work sits at the intersection of history, civil rights, democracy, and family. Together, we trace the long arc of resistance to public education, from enslavement and segregation to today’s fights over curriculum, parental rights, and school privatization.

Dr. Wingfield helps us see that what feels overwhelming right now isn’t new—it’s cyclical. And that clarity matters. When we understand the playbook, we can respond with intention instead of panic...

 Join the conversation by registering for one of our upcoming Book Club sessions! 

The Integrated Schools Podcast returns with a great conversation with Emily Ladau, disability rights activist and author of Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to be an Ally.

Ladau describes herself as "passionate about having conversations about disability and really engaging people to talk about a topic that they might otherwise feel uncomfortable with and really making it approachable and accessible to them." In the spirit of Dr. Loretta Ross, she models what it means to call people in: to meet other people where the...

As we come to the end of 2025, we wanted to pause together—to reflect on a year that has been emotionally heavy, nationally turbulent, and deeply personal.

This year, our families have been in the midst of big transitions. We talk about what it’s been like to launch a child toward adulthood, to navigate new middle and high schools, and to sit with the uncertainty that comes with parenting when the stakes feel so high. We reflect on the school choices we’ve made—often outside the bounds of prestige or promise—and what it feels like, year...

We’re joined by MacArthur “Genius” and legendary activist Dr. Loretta Ross for a conversation that left us grounded, challenged, and deeply moved. From her early work in reproductive justice and anti-violence movements, to her current mission disrupting “call-out culture,” Dr. Ross offers us a path forward rooted in grace, accountability, and radical love.

We explore what it means to “call in” rather than call out—especially in an era where public shaming feels ever-present and social media rewards outrage. Dr. Ross shares her personal story of trauma, healing, and transformation, and helps us understand how real change happens n...

In this episode, we’re stretching the boundaries of our “big tent”—the messy, hopeful space where we try to build a public education system worthy of all our kids. We sat down with Ms. Keri Rodrigues, President and co-founder of the National Parents Union, for a conversation recorded inside the U.S. Senate building (a first for us!).

Ms. Rodrigues brings her whole self into this work: mother, organizer, daughter of immigrants, former student who didn’t always get what she needed from school, and fierce believer in the power of parents showing up together. While the methods of...

What happens when over 600 educators, students, organizers, and advocates gather in community to center racial equity and storytelling? We found out at this year’s Color of Education Summit in Raleigh, North Carolina.

In this episode, Andrew takes us inside the summit—hosted by the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity—to hear voices from across the state and country. From keynote speeches to hallway conversations, we witness the power of stories to connect, inspire, and catalyze change.

We hear from Dr. Deanna Townsend-Smith, who set the tone with vulnerability, legacy, and a call to co...

 We’re sharing a special crossover: Dr. Val and Andrew join Tabitha St. Bernard-Jacobs and Adam Jacobs, co-hosts of the Raising Antiracist Kids podcast, to talk about parents as partners in building antiracist school communities. We dig into why relationships—especially across lines of race and class—are core to any multiracial democracy, what it looks like for White families to show up without centering themselves, and how we nurture brave, durable school communities together. Along the way, we sit with discomfort, model grace, and keep our eyes on the long game—this is a marathon relay, and we each carry th...

What does it mean to truly know who you are—and how might that knowing shape what you give back to the world? In this episode, we’re joined by Byron Sanders—educator, CEO, community leader, and newly elected Dallas ISD school board member—for a vulnerable, expansive conversation about identity, purpose, and the responsibility that comes with our gifts.

Byron shares a deeply personal story of finding his way from trauma to mission, from being driven by what he didn’t want to become to discovering a life of service rooted in community. Alongside reflections on masculinity...

As we launch Season 12 of the podcast, Dr. Val and Andrew reflect on the start of the school year. With big personal transitions, and the country in a state of deep uncertainty, we ask, what now? How can we acknowledge the current state of eduction and find ways to act for justice.

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Vi...

Original Sins: The (Mis)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism is the Integrated Schools Book Club pick for the fall. So we thought we'd revisit our episode with Dr. Ewing. If you've never attended Book Club, it's a wonderful to chance to chat with folks from around the country who are interested in school integration. We have small groups and great facilitators who make sure the conversation flows. Book Club is free! Register now!

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Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields...

The president just signed a truly monstrous piece of legislation into law. Much has been written about the impacts on health, climate and the debt, but there is a lesser known evil lurking in this bill - a national school voucher plan. It's temping to lose hope, but there is something each of us can do.

LINKS: 

Visit our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us an...

As Season 11 comes to a close, we wanted to spend some time reflecting on the lessons we've learned from this season and what we hope for in Season 12. We'll be off for the summer with a few possible bonus episodes, and back for real in the fall. In the mean time, we want to express our deepest appreciation for a number of people who make this podcast run. 

Firstly, to all of our guests, thank you for joining us, for sharing your stories and your wisdom with us. Being in conversation with each of you is a true...

“Having my children in public school was something that I wanted to do with people in my community. It was a commitment that we were making together. And then when I saw folks leaving, it felt like a betrayal.” – Stephanie Forman.

Where we send our kids to school is, for many, a complicated decision. We struggle to weigh multiple factors- curriculum and teachers, diversity of the student body, the commute and hours, not to mention what role we want to play in supporting the institutions where our kids spend 8 hours a day. 

Drs. Stephanie Forman and Lisa Sibbett...

“I hope that you know that I believe you, the community of listeners believes you, and that's good enough.” Dr. Asia Lyons

Dr. Asia Lyons is the host of 'The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators' where she practices archival justice by sharing the stories of Black educators who have left the classroom. Her own journey to education and then out of the classroom led her work both on the podcast, and in creating intentional spaces of healing for Black educators. Dr. Lyons's work focuses on the less sexy, but often more important work of retaining Black educ...

"If we're not centering children’s humanity through love, there's no strategy, no professional book or instructional method in the world that can prepare the teacher to elevate the child." - Dr. Gholdy Muhammad

Identity, skills, intellectualism, criticality, and joy. These are the five pursuits that Dr. Gholdy Muhammad argues are key to education. Our educational system focuses most of its attention on skills while often overlooking the other pursuits to the detriment of all kids. All people need to know who they are and whose they are, need to put the knowledge they gain into action...

“At its inception, in the courts, and as a project, integration was deeply contested and Black people were deeply divided about it. ” – Dr. Noliwe Rooks

The common narrative about integration often frames it as a clear victory—a moment when American education finally confronted injustice. But Dr. Noliwe Rooks argues the reality is far more complicated. In her new book, Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children, she traces the history of Black education, showing how the pursuit of desegregation sometimes led to profound losses for Black communities.

In this conversation, Dr. Rooks discusses the overlooked s...

Last month, integration advocates from around the country gathered for the National Coalition on School Diversity's National Conference to discuss where we find ourselves in this difficult moment.

From policy makers to researchers, school leaders to equity advocates, the conference featured many of the brightest minds focusing on how we build up and support an education system that serves all children well. Despite the challenges to education, especially public education, not to mention multiracial public education, attending the conference was inspiring and sustaining. To see several hundred people gather in the face of pushback...

Public education is touted as the bedrock of democracy, a leveler of playing fields, and our best tool to create active, engaged citizens. And while that vision is powerful, Dr. Eve L. Ewing argues that it was never intended to be those things for Black or Native students. In fact, her new book, Original Sins: The (MIs)education of Black and Native Children and the Construction of American Racism, maintains that schooling in America was created to prepare White kids for leadership, Black kids for subjugation, and Native kids for erasure. 

She joins us to discuss these thre...

"To be White is, is to be raised on lies. Lies that are passed down, generationally that a lot of White folks don't always know that they're passing down." - Greg Jarrell 

Our guest today, Greg Jarrell is an ordained minister, a cultural organizer and the author of Our Trespasses: White Churches and the Taking of American Neighborhoods. Through many years of building community while engaging in anti-racist learning, he has come to realize that he also has a stake in ending White supremacy, advancing racial justice, and building loving, multi-racial communities. He joins us to discuss the...

 Omkari Williams believes deeply in the power of people to change their environments - that through the power of the human spirit, and small, concrete actions, anything is possible, and that true changes requires all types of people. 

Her recent book, Micro Activism: How You Can Make a Difference in the World Without A Bullhorn, is a testament to this idea. In it, she lays out four activist archetypes - The Headliner, The Producer, The Organizer, and The Indispensable. All movements need all four types of activists, and everyone can find themselves in one or more of the arc...

 The 1954 Supreme Court decision, Brown v Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas declared that separate is inherently unequal. The Supreme Court declared that it was in the national interest for kids to learn together. And while progress towards that goal was slow, and often met with resistance, there was an opportunity in the decision to try to heal our nation from the extraordinary wounds caused by slavery, Jim Crow, and persistent separate and unequal opportunities for Black people. In many ways, 1974's Milliken v Bradley decision put an end to that potential. A tragic Supreme Court decision, that led Thurgood...

 Every parent and caregiver wants a crystal ball. We want to see how the choices we make for our kids, from screen time to activities to where they go to school, will impact them when they're older. Choosing an integrating school can feel like a risky choice, and even if we believe that it is the right choice, both for our kids, and our community, it's easy for doubt to creep in.

Susan, a White mom in Lancaster, PA, and her husband, made that choice for their son, Elias in kindergarten. When he was 15, he was at a tr...

 We often talk about race as a social construct. We know that there is more genetic diversity within racial groups than between. And yet, race obviously has real life impacts on people's lives. We have talked on the show in the past about the historical creation of race, and looked at the creation of Whiteness, particularly in relation to Blackness. Our guest today complicates this understanding both by asking us to acknowledge the ways race continues to be created and re-created, particularly in schools, and by asking us to consider the label of Latinx as a racial category rather than an...

The way we fund schools in this country often results in haves and have nots. We have some districts with immense wealth, often bordering districts that are severely under resourced. The work of creating more equitable funding formulae is important and ongoing. At the same time, we have district lines that make for school districts deeply segregated by race and class. The work of desegregating our schools is also important and ongoing. 

And yet, the people working on these two seemingly separate problems rarely work together. Brown's Promise was created to bring these conversations together with the belief...

In the wake of the election results, Dr. Val and Andrew sit down to reflect on what it means for ourselves, for the Integrated Schools movement, and for the institution of public education.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowi...

 As we approach the 2024 election, we wanted to revisit a conversation with one of our favorite guests, Dr. Carol Anderson, the Charles Howard Candler Professor of African American Studies at Emory University. In addition to writing White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Nation’s Divide, One Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression is Destroying Our Democracy, and The Second: Race and Guns in a Fatally Unequal America, Dr. Anderson brings a depth of knowledge about our country's ongoing struggle to become a true, multi-racial democracy that felt particularly relevant in the run-up to the election.

At the core o...

 In the fall of 1963, in Petersburg, VA, 6 young Black girls integrated Stonewall Jackson Elementary School. In the middle of the Massive Resistance era, districts around Virginia and throughout the South were fighting desegregation tooth and nail. From physical violence to the closing of entire school districts, communities were circumventing the Brown v Board decision in whatever ways they could. 

In 1961, Reverend Grady W. Powell, Sr, became the pastor of Gillfield Baptist Church, located in the heart of Petersburg. With a deep commitment to civil rights, and past experience with desegregation attempts in Richmond, Rev. Powell believed it was time for...

Janel George, a Georgetown Law professor, who explores race and justice in education, recently wrote a paper that moved us here at Integrated Schools. Called "Deny, Defund, and Divert: The Law and American Miseducation", the piece outlines historical and modern systemic educational inequalities faced by Black communities, linked to legislative actions and adaptations of White supremacy.

She joins us to talk about legislative lawyering, the importance of community engagement when making public policy, and the ongoing role of systemic racism in our legal and education systems. Ms. George shares her vision for a racially just education system, a...

We're back!! We hope you had a wonderful summer! We're excited to be back in your feeds as a new school year gets underway. As we kick off season 11 of the podcast, we are recommitting to the mission and vision of Integrated Schools, and using the podcast as a platform to invite you in to the conversation.