21 Hats Podcast

This week, we welcome a new regular to the podcast team, Rob Levin, co-founder of WorkBetterNow. I first met Rob more than 20 years ago, when we were both experiencing the decline of print media. I was an editor at Inc. magazine, and Rob had started a regional publication for business owners called The New York Enterprise Report. “Starting a print publication in 2003 was not one of the smartest things I've done,” Rob says. But he learned from that experience. In 2018, Rob and a partner started WorkBetterNow, which helps American businesses hire Latin American talent. The business took off during the pand...

Most business owners know the usual ways to finance a startup or acquisition: savings, investors, bank loans, SBA loans. But there’s another option that many owners have never considered—even though Jeremy Ames says his company, Guidant Financial, has helped arrange more than 35,000 of these transactions. It’s called ROBS financing—Rollovers for Business Startups—and it allows entrepreneurs to use money they’ve accumulated in retirement accounts to start or buy a business without taking a taxable distribution and, perhaps most notably, without taking out a loan. There’s no debt and no monthly loan payment. Instead, the owner’s retire...

This week, Paul Downs, Jaci Russo, and Sarah Segal revisit a question that came up on the podcast more than a year ago: Is artificial intelligence going to doom professional service firms like Jaci’s branding agency and Sarah’s PR firm? So far, both Jaci and Sarah are feeling pretty good about their prospects. In fact, they’re seeing changes in the market that suggest AI may be helping rather than undermining their businesses. Paul, meanwhile, has encountered a different kind of AI mystery. For years, his custom conference table business has depended heavily on people finding him through Google...

This week, Lou Mosca raises a question that business owners may not spend enough time thinking about before they sell the business: Once you’ve gotten the price you want, how much do you care what happens to the business? Lou, who owns the consulting firm American Management Services, has spent decades working with owner-operated businesses. More recently, he’s also been trying to work with private equity firms whose portfolio companies need help improving their performance. And that has given him an increasingly close look at what can happen when an owner sells to private equity.As Lou sees it...

This week, Jay Goltz and William Vanderbloemen tackle a problem that business owners may associate with big companies: What happens when an employee becomes convinced that his or her manager is making bad decisions, but going through normal channels just isn’t working? Jay says he absolutely wants employees to speak up, even if that means going over a manager’s head. William agrees that there are times when an employee has to escalate a problem. But as the conversation unfolds, both acknowledge something that can be easy for an owner to underestimate: Speaking up can feel extraordinarily risky to empl...

For a lot of business owners, there comes a point when the obvious choices seem to be: keep running the business or sell it. But Tighe Burke says there’s a third option that owners often overlook: keep the business, hire someone else to run it, and let that person take it places you may not be equipped—or inclined—to take it yourself. Burke, who runs the executive recruiting firm Srch, specializes in finding operators for founder-led businesses. He says one of the hardest things for entrepreneurs to accept is that someone else may actually be better at running their...

Earlier this year, Ted Wolf suggested that Paul Downs should take a serious look at how artificial intelligence might improve his custom woodworking business. Paul was skeptical—but he invited Ted and his team to come visit the shop and see for themselves. This week, Ted reports back. He came away impressed by the business Paul has built but also convinced that Paul has a problem: As Ted sees it, too much of what makes the company work still resides in Paul’s head. Ted believes AI could help capture some of that knowledge, improve everything from estimating to production, and...

Kevin Donnelly was 44 when an unsolicited offer set in motion the sale of the telecommunications company he had spent nearly 20 years building. The business had grown to more than 600 people in 38 cities and about $50 million in revenue, and Kevin says the deal itself worked out well for him financially. But that doesn’t mean he looks back on the experience without regret.What bothers him most is what happened to the people who helped him build the company. After the sale, employees started getting let go, and Kevin came to believe he should have done more—through bonuses, transition planning, or s...

This week, Jaci Russo, Liz Picarazzi, and David C. Barnett talk about something entrepreneurs are always being told they have to do: innovate. But how do you know which ideas are worth pursuing, how much time and money to put into them, and when an experiment starts to become something much bigger? Jaci Russo may be finding out. What started as a prospecting system she built for herself—with AI, verified data, and a simple CRM—has turned into ProspectDaily, a subscription product that attracted more than 100 customers before she even announced it. That has Jaci thinking the tool could do m...

When Nathan Miller started Rentec Direct almost 20 years ago, he wasn’t trying to disrupt an industry. He was a small landlord who couldn’t find affordable software that did what he needed, so he built his own. Other landlords started using it, then paying for it, and over time Rentec carved out a meaningful place in what became an increasingly crowded and well-funded market.Nathan says the company has managed to keep growing not by trying to match its venture-backed competitors dollar for dollar, but by sticking to a fairly simple formula: understand the customer, keep prices reasonable, provide unus...

This week, Sarah Segal tells David C. Barnett and Jay Goltz that she has decided it’s time to pay more attention to something that can occasionally get lost amid the other demands of running a business: making money. Sarah’s agency is having a very good year, with revenue growing 40 to 50 percent. But she’s realized that growth alone isn’t enough. She wants to know exactly what it costs to hire each employee, what it costs to service each client, whether her fees are covering those costs—and what has to change if she’s going to hit a 20 percent...

Business owners are being told constantly that they need to figure out how to use AI. Deb Weidenhamer thinks that may be the wrong place to start. Instead, she says, owners should look for the places where their businesses are already struggling: Where are you wasting time? Where are you losing money? Where are customers getting frustrated? Then ask whether AI can help.In this week’s Dashboard, Deb, author of AI for Real Companies: A Practical Guide to Smarter Systems and Stronger Profits, walks us through several examples of businesses that have done exactly that. A pizza shop uses AI...

This week, we revisit a conversation with Laura Zander that we first published last year, shortly after she and her husband Doug sold Jimmy Beans Wool, the business they had spent more than two decades building. Laura had been preparing to sell for years. She had kept the company’s books clean, built systems that could survive without her, and cultivated relationships with potential buyers. In other words, she had done many of the things owners are told they should do to prepare for an eventual exit. And still, when the right buyer finally came along, Laura says the process ne...

I met Lamar Tyler, founder of Traffic Sales & Profit, a couple of years ago at a Zone of Genius conference, where I interviewed him on the main stage. It quickly became clear that Lamar, who helps business owners grow, had a lot of smart, practical advice to offer, and I’ve been following him ever since. He recently posted something on LinkedIn that stopped me: “Staying small as a Black business owner is selfish.” Lamar, obviously, was speaking primarily to Black entrepreneurs, but his challenge applies more broadly. His argument is that owners who have the ability to build larger compan...

This week, we start with a business owner who’s just learned his rent is jumping 40 percent and who sees three options: accept the new rent and essentially work for free, move and start over, or shut down and get a job. But when Paul Downs, Jay Goltz, and Ted Wolf do the math, they see another option—one the owner doesn’t seem to have considered.

From there, the conversation turns to the choices owners make when the answer isn’t obvious. Paul, as it happens, is wrestling with two of those himself. Before the year began, he devel...

Conventional wisdom about selling a business is pretty clear: If at all possible, get your money at closing. Don’t leave a big chunk of the purchase price dependent on the future performance of a business you no longer control. David C. Barnett, who helps people buy and sell businesses, has challenged that conventional wisdom, arguing that earnouts and other forms of deferred payment can sometimes help buyers and sellers get better deals done. Josh Patrick, who has owned and sold businesses himself and advised many other owners through transactions, is more skeptical. Which is why I was kind of ho...

Jaci Russo has had quite a summer. First, her husband and business partner, Michael, underwent an unexpected quadruple bypass. Fortunately, Michael's recovering well, and their branding agency passed an important test: With both founders largely out of commission, the team kept the business running and the clients happy. But that wasn't the only surprise Jaci had to deal with. For the past several years, she and Michael thought they knew exactly how they would eventually leave the business. They had a succession plan. They had a timetable. And they had already begun putting the pieces in place. Now, they're back...

If you've built a successful business, you've likely been told the path to more success is obvious: hire employees, land bigger clients, lock in recurring revenue with retainers. But what if those aren't signs of progress? What if they're traps?This week, I talk with Pia Silva, author of Scale Solo, who argues that many of the traditional rules of entrepreneurship simply don't apply to solopreneurs. She explains why hiring too soon can derail a business, why retainers often aren't nearly as profitable as they appear, and why she'd rather do 10 $3,000 projects than one $30,000 engagement. Along the way, Pia also...

This week, we begin with the story of Paloma Corona, the owner of a thriving preschool in Los Angeles who needed money to expand to a second location. She thought she was borrowing at an annual percentage rate of 13 percent. In reality, the effective APR was 170 percent. She also thought she was taking out a loan. Instead, she was placed in a merchant cash advance—an increasingly common form of financing that can sidestep many of the laws governing traditional loans. The daily payments quickly began draining not only the profits from her business, but also her personal savings. Her bu...

ESOPs are often presented as one of the best ways for a business owner to exit. You preserve your company's independence, reward the employees who helped build it, and create a retirement benefit that can be life-changing for the people who stay with the business. What gets less attention is that ESOPs are still businesses. They can lose customers. They can hit hard times. And because employees' retirement savings are often tied to the company, the stakes can be even higher than they are at a conventionally owned business.This week, Roland Burdett tells the story of Miklos Systems, a...

Side hustles have gone mainstream. More employees than ever are starting businesses of their own—sometimes to earn extra income, sometimes as insurance against layoffs, and sometimes because they dream of becoming entrepreneurs themselves. But what does that mean for the businesses they already work for? If you invest months in training an employee, isn’t it fair to expect that person to devote their best energy to helping your company grow? That's not an immediate concern for Lena McGuire, who's still a solopreneur. But as she prepares to hire and train her first employees, she worries about investing in peop...

One thing I've noticed over the years is that business owners love talking about employees who think like owners, who take initiative, solve problems, and don't wait to be told what to do. The harder question, of course, is: How do you actually build a company that encourages people to behave that way? My guest this week thinks most businesses actually encourage people to do the opposite.Dean Meyer is an executive coach who specializes in organizational transformation, and he believes that employee engagement has a lot less to do with perks, personalities, or motivational speeches than it does with...

Nearly 10 years ago, Simon Bedding, who owns a manufacturing company in England, picked up a copy of Boss Life, Paul Downs' memoir about running (and almost losing) a manufacturing company in Pennsylvania. Simon liked the book enough to email Paul. Paul wrote back. And over the years, they've kind of stayed in touch. This year, as we mark the 250th anniversary of the United States spinning off from the United Kingdom, we thought it would be illuminating to get these two business owners together to compare notes. After all, their countries started with the same language and much of the...

Small business owners have plenty to worry about these days. According to John Arensmeyer, founder and CEO of Small Business Majority, his organization's surveys show optimism is slipping as owners grapple with soaring health insurance premiums, rising energy costs, and the higher price of imported goods. And yet, the wave of entrepreneurship that began during the pandemic hasn't faded. In fact, it's still growing. So what's going on? Why are so many people choosing this moment to start businesses? What do they think they're seeing? And perhaps the more important question: What can we do to improve their odds of...

If you’ve owned a business for any length of time, you’ve probably told yourself some version of this: I'll deal with succession as soon as I solve whatever crisis my business is confronting right now. The problem, of course, is that there's always another crisis to solve or opportunity to pursue, and time has a way of passing.

Jay Goltz has spent decades building a collection of successful businesses in Chicago. He knows he needs a succession plan. He knows that if something happened to him tomorrow, there’d be chaos. And he'd very much like to lea...

There have been a lot of stories lately about companies getting hit with surprisingly large AI bills. They start using platforms like ChatGPT or Claude, usage grows faster than expected, and suddenly they're spending far more than they ever imagined. Should small businesses be worried? I invited AI consultant and longtime business owner Alan Pentz back on the podcast to find out. His answer may surprise you: for most small businesses, he says, runaway AI costs aren't the problem. If anything, he thinks they're spending too little.That led us into a wide-ranging conversation about why Alan has changed his...

Most business owners hope to reach the day when someone offers to buy their business. If that day comes, the payoff isn't just financial. It's validation for years of risk-taking, sleepless nights, personal guarantees, and sacrifices that most employees never see. But that success can raise an uncomfortable question: What exactly do owners owe the people who helped them get there? Should employees share in the proceeds when a business is sold? Does an owner have an obligation to find a buyer who will protect the culture and the jobs that have been built over the years? Or is the...

Business owners spend a lot of time preparing for things that could threaten their companies. They buy insurance, build cash reserves, create succession plans, and they worry about recessions, lawsuits, and key employees leaving. But there's one potentially devastating risk that many owners would rather not think about: What happens if the owner's marriage falls apart? This week, David Barnett explains how careful planning—including a prenuptial agreement—helped him avoid the worst-case scenarios when he got divorced. Jaci Russo offers almost the opposite perspective. She says building a business with her husband hasn't strained their marriage—in fact, it may ac...

Jared Bell never planned to own a fencing business. He took a summer job at Butte Fence in 1994, liked the work, and decided to skip college and stay. Thirteen years later, he bought out a partner and took over day-to-day operations—just in time for the Great Recession. The company survived that challenge and has gone on to thrive, but not by following a conventional growth playbook. Bell has expanded the business by repeatedly asking a simple question: Why buy from a supplier when we can do it better ourselves? Over the years, Butte Fence has developed new products, configured mo...

The new pay transparency laws were designed to help job applicants and narrow pay disparities. But they've also had an unintended consequence: Employees now have far more information about what other people are making—and that can raise some uncomfortable questions for business owners. How do you decide what a job is worth? How much should you pay compared to the market? How much should employees know about what their co-workers earn? This week, Jay Goltz, Jennifer Kerhin, and Ted Wolf compare notes on compensation. 

Jennifer explains how her philosophy has evolved from offering below-market pay and maximum fle...

A health scare in 2015 prompted Julia Beardwood to confront a question many business owners prefer to postpone: What happens when it's time to leave the business? Over the next several years, the founder of the New York City branding agency Beardwood explored a range of possibilities, including selling to an ESOP and pursuing a strategic acquisition. But when the time came, the solution turned out to be much closer to home. Years earlier, Julia had implemented a compensation strategy that gave key employees a meaningful stake in the company's success. What began as a way to motivate and retain talent...

The promise is seductive: Implement the right operating system and your frustrations disappear. Your employees become more accountable. Communication improves. Growth follows. Your business finally runs the way you always hoped it would. That's the promise behind EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System popularized by Gino Wickman's book Traction. Plenty of business owners swear by it. Plenty have spent tens of thousands of dollars hiring EOS implementers to help put it in place. But does it work?

This week, we’re republishing one of our favorite conversations, one in which Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Laura Zander compare notes on...

For years, Kim Robinson worked on the brand side, helping major companies connect with artists and creatives. Eventually, he decided he’d rather be working for the artists themselves. So he launched 3pts, a company that helps creatives handle the business side of their careers—everything from pricing and marketing to partnerships and strategy—so they can spend more time focused on the work they love.The first challenge, Kim says, is convincing artists that thinking about money and business doesn’t somehow compromise their creativity. The second is helping them understand that even the most gifted creatives still need a framew...

This week, Sarah Segal, Jaci Russo, and Lena McGuire tackle a question many service business owners face: Which is the bigger risk—an employee who feels overburdened or a client who feels neglected? The discussion begins with Sarah explaining why she's had to reestablish boundaries with some clients who were texting and calling her employees after hours and bypassing the systems her agency has put in place. Sarah wants her team to be able to disconnect at the end of the day, and she wants clients communicating with the entire team assigned to their account—not developing overly close relationships with...

Sean Joy is head of M&A at Chenmark, a Portland, Maine-based holding company that acquires a handful of small businesses each year. At first glance, Chenmark may sound like a traditional private equity firm, but it isn't. The company is family- and employee-owned, and when it buys a business, the goal isn't to improve it and sell it a few years later. The goal is to own it indefinitely.In our conversation, Sean explains what Chenmark looks for in an acquisition, how it finds businesses to buy, what it's willing to pay, and how it approaches management after a...

This week, we explore some contrasting opinions about artificial intelligence. Paul Downs has serious doubts that AI will ever have a significant impact on his business. Paul, who builds custom conference tables, says his business depends on something AI still lacks: real world experience. While AI can generate impressive images and concepts, he argues that it has no understanding of manufacturing constraints, material properties, production processes, or the capabilities of the people and machines that have to bring an idea to life. “An image of a thing that looks cool is not a design,” Paul says. “A design is a set of...

When Bryan Clayton graduated from college, he discovered he had two options: take an entry-level job and a pay cut—or go back to mowing lawns, which was already making him more money. He chose the lawns. Over time, he built a commercial landscaping business that grew to $10 million in annual revenue before eventually selling it. But even while running that business, Clayton had been thinking about another problem: why was it still so hard for homeowners to hire a reliable lawn service?Despite having no background in technology, Clayton bootstrapped a platform called GreenPal, which connects homeowners with lawn-care sp...

Twenty years ago, Bo Burlingham gave a name to a feeling a lot of business owners had struggled to articulate. In his book Small Giants, Bo profiled companies that had chosen not to chase growth at all costs. Most were bootstrapped, owner-operated businesses that cared less about getting big than about building something enduring, meaningful, and excellent. They weren’t anti-growth. They just wanted growth to be intentional. And for many owners who read the book, the reaction was immediate: “I thought I was the only one who felt this way.” Out of that recognition grew a community—and eventually an organ...

When Eugene Khayman first got involved with Million Dollar Sellers, it was essentially a support group for entrepreneurs building businesses on Amazon. Back then, the opportunity seemed almost limitless. Today, ecommerce feels a lot more complicated. Competition is tougher. Customer acquisition is more expensive. And sellers have many options beyond Amazon. At the same time, Khayman believes Amazon itself has changed—and not for the better. In a recent post on X, he argued that Amazon’s growing fees are “destroying the marketplace it created.” He’s now leading a campaign called Save Our Sellers, aimed at pushing back on policies t...

Michelle Wyatt has replayed the events in her mind countless times, looking for warning signs she might have missed. But even now, she can’t find any. Both employees had passed background checks and drug tests. Both were considered trusted, valued members of the team. And yet, within a span of months, two violent incidents involving employees left Michelle and her company reeling. In this week’s conversation, Michelle joins Jay Goltz, who has dealt with employee violence in his own business, and special guest Sandy Kapell, who’s made a career leading human resources, to wrestle with a question that h...