21 Hats Podcast

This week, Rob Levin, who is co-founder of WorkBetterNow and who has just published a new book, the “New Talent Playbook,” talks about what he considers to be a talent crisis for small businesses. As Rob points out, you might think hiring would be easy these days given all of the recent corporate layoffs—but the people leaving big businesses are probably not the right hires for smaller businesses. Instead, Rob offers a step-by-step approach that emphasizes building a healthy culture where people want to work.

This week, in Episode 272, Liz Picarazzi and Jaci Russo compare notes with Ted Wolf on their very different journeys to integrate generative AI into their businesses. For Liz, it’s been frustrating. She resisted AI at first—but while she’s ready to go now, her COO, who also happens to be her husband, still isn’t there. That’s one reason Liz says she feels as though she’s been spinning her wheels. Jaci’s path couldn’t have been more different. She jumped in more than two years ago, took every course she could find, and now has custom GPTs talk...

That’s the conclusion of Ilana Preuss, who is founder and CEO of Recast City and who believes that the way to bring back America’s Main Streets, downtowns, and local economies is through small-scale manufacturing. While traditional economic development focuses on what Preuss calls big-game hunting--recruiting big, established companies--she favors looking for ways to support even the smallest of businesses. How can a community do that? Step one, she says, is to find local manufacturers, talk to them, and find out what they need. Go figure!

This week, in Episode 271, we welcome another new voice to the podcast: Channon Kennedy, who takes us inside the side hustle that’s become her second full-time job. Channon is the inventor and patent holder of the Morgan Square, a clever measuring tool—here’s a demonstration—that’s racking up awards, expanding its distribution, and carving out space for a woman founder in a traditionally male-dominated industry. This is a true bootstrap story. Channon’s numbers are modest enough that she still does most of her own fulfillment at night after her day job as a banker—and she loves it. “Eve...

Yes, says Gene Marks, it’s easy to make fun of all of the ways in which AI chatbots can fail (don’t even think about asking them to create an image of a Yorkshire Terrier hitting a homerun), but that’s no excuse to sit on the sidelines. Get the paid version. Get some training. Get your employees some training. And get to work. On what? Gene gives some examples of his favorite use cases.

This week, in Episode 270, we dig into employee ownership with two people who’ve lived it: Kris Maynard and Justin Jordan of Cathedral Holdings, a 100-percent employee-owned ESOP since 2011. Kris and Justin are enthusiastic proponents of ESOPs, but they’re also candid about what can go wrong. Yes, ESOPs come with big tax advantages. But the transaction can be complex. The debt can fundamentally change the risk profile of a business. And perhaps the most under-discussed challenge of all: not all employees embrace employee ownership. Some see it as little more than a glorified retirement plan. And here’s the thing...

This week, Julian Scadden explains how the organization he runs, Nexstar Network, helps the owners of plumbing, HVAC, and electrical firms become better business owners. Along the way, he discusses the challenges home-service businesses are confronting, why Nexstar is member-owned (and what that means), and an intriguing decision he made recently to part ways with the 30 percent of his members who are private-equity backed. Those members represented half the organization’s revenue at the time of the decision. I also ask Julian which is the better path: learning a trade and building a business or buying a business and figuring ou...

This week, in Episode 269, we welcome Ted Wolf, co-founder of Guidewise, as the newest regular member of the 21 Hats Podcast crew—and Ted arrives with a pretty good story. Back when he was building his IT staffing business with his brother, a senior employee walked out. But he didn’t walk out alone—he took key employees, key accounts, and 40 percent of the company’s revenue. At the time, Ted thought it was the worst day of his business life. Turns out, he says, it was his best. Because that disaster forced him to rethink everything—how decisions get made, how profit...

Josh Patrick’s first act was building and eventually selling a successful vending-machine business. His second act was building a thriving consulting practice in which he helped other business owners learn the lessons he’d learned the hard way. In our latest Dashboard episode, Josh, a cancer survivor whose cancer has returned, is exploring two experiences—retirement and death—that he believes most owners are ill-prepared to confront. He’s planning to address that in his writing. As for himself, Josh tells us that he’s not afraid of death, but he is afraid of retirement.

This week, in episode 268, Jay Goltz, Lena McGuire, and Liz Picarazzi discuss a common concern: When does it make sense to buy a building for your business? Under the right circumstances—say, with an SBA loan, a good location, and a little luck—the real estate could end up being worth more than the business itself. But what if the business is just getting started? Or what if the owner is nearing retirement age and may not be around to reap decades of appreciation? Is buying the business still a good idea? Meanwhile, Liz and Lena also compare notes on thei...

This week, Greg Shugar, owner of Beau Ties, a men’s accessories business, explains how the tariffs have the potential to destroy the very businesses they are supposed to protect. As Shugar points out, President Trump has said all along that if you make it here, you won’t have to pay the tariffs. Well, Beau Ties makes it here -- but it has to import fabric from overseas because the silk fabric it needs is simply not produced here. And those imports are being taxed at a very high rate. At the moment, Shugar is waiting to hear whether Trum...

This week, in episode 267, David C. Barnett, Kate Morgan, and Sarah Segal tackle a challenge every owner who sells services eventually faces: Clients want to hire you, but you want them to understand they’ll mostly be working with your team. How do you make that clear without scaring them off? For some, it’s a delicate balancing act. For Kate, it’s simple: if a client insists on her personal time, she charges, in her words, “a boatload of cash.” Plus: we dive into another tricky owner decision: how to structure bonus plans that truly drive retention. David is weighing a...

This week, in episode 266, David C. Barnett, Jay Goltz, and Kate Morgan wrestle with one of the trickiest challenges for business owners: how to give employees room to grow without losing sight of the company’s mission. David points out that every business is on its way to obsolescence unless it deliberately evolves—and one way to do that, he says, is by letting employees experiment and try new things. That approach, Jay says, is exactly what led to his building a furniture business. Plus: Kate and Jay agree that while many aspects of running a business can be stressful, noth...

This week, Ted Wolf, who co-founded Guidewise, which helps businesses manage change, offers a slew of valuable AI suggestions for business owners, regardless of how big or small their businesses are and regardless of whether they’re just getting started or they’ve already taken the leap. Those suggestions range from how much to pay for an AI tool to how to protect your data to how to ease employee resistance to how to figure out where to begin. Here’s one step you can take right now: Ted explains how to use ChatGPT to do an instant SWOT analysis compar...

This week, in episode 264, David C. Barnett and Jennifer Kerhin say they’re already making plans for next year: adjusting pricing, conducting employee reviews, and setting budgets. In the past, Jennifer has chosen to restrain growth to give her employees and her processes a chance to catch up. But this coming year? She says she’s ready to “unleash the hounds.” And for the first time, she’s planning to budget for profit first and then force her expenses to fit her margins. Unlike Jennifer, who conducts employee reviews throughout the year, David saves his evaluations for the end of the year...

This week, Kurt Wilkin discusses what he’s learned about selling businesses and how he’s thinking about what he might do next. An entrepreneur, an investor, a mentor, and a former business owner who recently sold a recruiting firm, Wilkin tells us why his acquisition of the firm didn't work out the way he hoped and how he managed to turn it around and sell it. Part of the problem, Kurt says, was that he jumped back into the game too quickly after selling his previous business. It’s a mistake he’s not going to repeat this time.

This week, in episode 264, Mel Gravely brings closure to a story he’s been sharing in pieces over the past year. You may recall that he bought a facilities maintenance company a couple years ago that he was convinced he could scale—only to discover that it was hemorrhaging money. Mel dug in, diagnosed the problem, fixed it, bought out his partners, turned the company profitable—and then decided to shut it down. Why close a business that’s making money? Mel explains the surprising answer, along with three lessons he says he learned. He also joins Jay Goltz in a candid...

This week, Cameron Madill, an entrepreneur who’s married to an entrepreneur, talks about the challenges of building a business while maintaining a relationship. Along with his own experience, Cameron has done lots of research, including interviewing more than 100 couples, and has also started a business to help couples balance marriage and entrepreneurship. Among other things, we discuss the difference between healthy passion for work and unhealthy passion, how to handle the most common issues that come up between entrepreneurial spouses, and the most important lessons Cameron has learned on this journey.

This week, in episode 263, we bring you another 21 Hats Brainstorm. Elan Daniel, who started a small-batch hummus business inspired by a memorable experience in Israel, is trying to figure out his best path to long-term viability. So far, he’s been selling at farmers markets and direct to consumers, making all of the hummus and all of the deliveries himself. Since February, his sales have been growing between 5 and 10 percent a week, but his growth is constrained by his refusal to use preservatives, which adds flavor but limits the product’s shelf life. So how should he proceed: Should he sell...

This week, Eric Stites, founder and CEO of Franchise Business Review, talks about the state of the franchising world. How much money do you need to buy a franchise? How much can you make? What are the hot categories? What are the most common mistakes? We also talk about life on the other side: What makes a business a good candidate to become a franchisor? And is it possible to avoid the tension -- and litigation -- that so often arises between franchisees and franchisors? Plus: If you buy a franchise, are you an entrepreneur? Or are you just buying...

This week, Jaci Russo and Sarah Segal wrestle with a question that haunts many entrepreneurs: How do you bring your kids into the business—whether for a summer or for good—without messing up the business (or the kids)? For years, Jaci and her husband Michael quietly hoped their son Jackson might one day take over their marketing agency. Their unusual strategy? Never mention it to him—at least not until he’d demonstrated interest and not until he’d proven himself somewhere else. The approach seems to have worked: Jackson has joined BrandRusso, and Jaci has told him he’ll take over...

This week, Shawn Busse, founder of Kinesis, talks about finding ways to market authentically when so many of the standard tools of marketing are in flux. In Shawn’s case, that means holding an annual event where business owners -- and potential clients -- have the opportunity to come together to learn and interact in person. Of course, throwing such an event costs money. It’s a lot of work. And it’s not always easy to strike the right balance between education and promotion, but Shawn believes more businesses should try it.

A few months ago, John Abrams—author of From Founder to Future—joined us to talk about succession strategies and the different ways business owners can share ownership with employees. For his own business, John chose one of the more radical options: he turned his construction firm into a worker cooperative. Perhaps surprisingly, the more he described the co-op model, the more intrigued Jay Goltz became—although, predictably, Jay did retain a degree of skepticism. So we asked John to come back on the podcast to help Jay dig a little deeper: Are co-ops really all about democracy? Does someone on the...

This week, Gene Marks makes a surprising claim: his business is “unsellable.” Never mind that it’s profitable. Never mind that it gave him the freedom to live the life he wanted and that it has left him and his wife financially secure for retirement. According to Gene, the business can’t be sold because it’s too dependent on him and because it has no IP, no exclusivity, and no moat. But is he right? Aren’t those the same challenges faced, for example, by countless HVAC and plumbing companies that private equity firms buy every day? Couldn’t Gene make his...

In a few weeks, I’ll be in Portland, Oregon, for Shawn Busse’s always terrific Catalyst event. That trip has had me thinking about the city’s keep-it-weird ethos, the spirit that’s made Portland a hotbed for creative business building. My upcoming trip has also inspired me to revisit a podcast conversation Shawn and I recorded in early 2024 with Jenelle Etzel, who is founder of Living Room Realty. The boutique real estate agency has more than a hundred brokers and a reputation for doing things differently, but Jenelle didn’t set out to be a business owner. In fact, she...

It was around Memorial Day in 2022 when Coca Cola stunned the beverage world by announcing it was shutting down production of Honest Tea. No one was more surprised than Seth Goldman, who had co-founded the brand and sold it to Coke. But within two weeks, he’d decided to do it all again, and by that Labor Day, bottles of his new venture, Just Ice Tea, were already landing on store shelves. And now, three years later, Just Ice Tea has exploded from $1 million in annual revenue to nearly $24 million to rank 88th on the latest Inc. 5000—more than two deca...

This week, Jimmy Kalb tells us how he built his electrical component business and, perhaps even more impressively, how he put a plan in place that has allowed him to walk away from his CEO role at the relatively young age of 63. One key: Jimmy has long been a process guy. For years, he’s been creating processes and handing them over to someone else to manage -- until he left himself with not all that much to do. Another factor: He only hires people right out of school, which is why his successor is in his early 30s and ha...

This week, in episode 260, Liz Picarazzi tells Jay Goltz and William Vanderbloemen that she’s had a couple of big breakthroughs. For Liz, it’s been a challenging few years dealing with the tariffs while also trying to break into a promising new market. Despite the advice of some very smart people who encouraged her to conquer her first market —urban areas plagued by rats—before expanding into additional markets, Liz has spent several years trying to position Citibin to serve towns, parks, and resorts that need trash bins strong enough to withstand bears. For that investment to pay off, however...

This week, Gene Marks explains why he -- like many other business owners -- long ago gave up on trying to promote his business through Google AdWords and why he’s hopeful that AI will break Google’s monopoly on search. That’s nowhere close to happening, but you can see the changes coming with the arrival of Google Overviews and with businesses trying to figure out what it takes to get discovered on ChatGPT. In the meantime, Gene’s placing his promotional bets on YouTube.

This week, in episode 259, Jaci Russo tells David C. Barnett and Kate Morgan how the hiring of her agency’s first top-level sales person went wrong. About four months ago, when Jaci first told us about this big step, she sounded thrilled. She said her new sales chief was a delight to be around, had hit the ground running, and had already lined up at least one impressive client. Unfortunately, none of that panned out. But Jaci, who is hardly the first business owner to have an important placement go off the rails, offered to walk us through her process to...

This week, Tracy Bech explains how and why she spent six months building, training, and testing her brand new 60 Minute Custom GPT, which is essentially an AI CFO that can perform all kinds of financial analysis on your business. You can interact with it as easily and conversationally as you do with ChatGPT, and it can help you figure out why your margins are off, or how you should expect to perform next quarter, or whether that new service you plan to offer will be profitable. And it’s free.

This week, in Episode 258, Laura Zander tells Mel Gravely and Jennifer Kerhin how she and her husband, Doug, managed to sell their business for precisely the price they wanted. As you may recall, Laura and Doug started Jimmy Beans Wool more than two decades ago as a tiny corner store and turned it into one of the biggest brands in the yarn industry. Years ago, the couple decided they’d be open to selling—but only if the offer was right. With that goal in mind, they made a deliberate effort to get the business sale-ready and to keep it that...

This week, Ben Knepler returns to the podcast to explain why he and his co-founder at True Places concluded they had no choice but to suspend production of their portable, outdoor chairs and go into survival mode. Initially, they manufactured the chairs in China, where they’ve been paying tariffs since the first Trump administration. Last year, at considerable expense, they moved production to Cambodia, which at the time was subject to no tariffs. But since April 2nd, the company has been subjected to a tariff rate that has gyrated from zero to 49 percent to 10 percent to 36 percent to 19 percent as...

This week, in Episode 257, David C. Barnett, Jay Goltz, and Lena McGuire talk about their experiences hiring consultants, advisors, and especially coaches. There are, of course, lots of great business coaches out there, but as the owners explain, it’s easy to be led astray by coaches who don’t really know your industry or who address your specific challenges with their cookie-cutter solutions. And here’s a question: Does it matter whether the coaches were successful in their own entrepreneurial endeavors? “I've seen some of these people in the picture framing industry,” Jay tells us, “these people who were coaching and...

This week, Peter Koehler, who helps businesses with their operations, finances, and succession planning, points out that small businesses are not just mini-versions of big businesses. In fact, he says, they’re an entirely different species, and he believes the federal tax code should treat them as such. In our conversation, he suggests a few changes -- tiered payroll tax rates, a startup tax credit to cover professional services, an expanded qualified business income deduction -- that he thinks might restrain our slide toward ever greater consolidation.

This week in Episode 256, David C. Barnett, Kate Morgan, and Sarah Segal compare notes on how they market themselves—and their businesses—online. All three are active on LinkedIn, but their strategies, investments, and even their goals are quite different. Are they seeking likes? Credibility? Clients? All three? “Sales and revenue are ultimately the metric we have to look at,” says David. “Likes and shares don't pay any bills.” Plus: Kate just spent what she calls “a boatload of cash” to publish a book. David self-publishes on Amazon—for free. And Sarah? She’s not writing a book at all. She hired a VP inste...

This week, Sheela Murthy, who founded and built one of the most prominent immigration law firms in the country, talks about the issues business owners may be confronting during the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown. Among the questions Ms. Murthy addresses: What should owners do if they suspect an employee may be undocumented? If the owner decides to keep the employee, what’s the worst that can happen? How reliable is E-Verify? If you employ people who you suspect may be undocumented, are you helping them or exploiting them?

Last September, we hosted a 21 Hats Brainstorm podcast episode in which BaLeigh Waldrop told us that she was considering buying the family business from her parents. BaLeigh, who has been serving as chief financial officer of the Miller Waldrop furniture business that her great grandfather started, recognized that she was being offered a remarkable opportunity, but she had some concerns. Sales have been off of late, the business is predominantly brick-and-mortar, and most importantly, she would have to work out an ownership structure with her younger brother. The 21 Hats crew of owners and entrepreneurs who joined the brainstorm asked a...

This week, Frank Rimalovski, who is head of both the NYU Entrepreneurial Institute and the NYU Innovation Venture Fund discusses how his programs help young entrepreneurs build businesses — and why sometimes the most valuable lesson he can offer is to NOT start a business. He also talks about whether you can teach resilience, how he views the strengths and weaknesses of venture capital, and what the growing impact of artificial intelligence will be on programs like his.

This week, in Episode 254, Jay Goltz, Mel Gravely, and special guest John Abrams have a frank conversation about what business owners can do to avoid what John calls the “fat-wallets-and-broken-hearts syndrome.” That’s his term for what can happen when an owner sells to private equity and the company ends up getting stripped. Jay, Mel, and John all agree they want no part of that. They all would like to see their businesses continue on without them. And yet, in thinking about succession, they’ve chosen different paths. In a conversation sparked by the recent publication of John’s book, From Found...