Songwriters on Process

"My ideas are the most plentiful when I just put something out into the world," says Claud. "I immediately start thinking about all the stuff I want to do next time." Some of that stuff comes from consistent journal writing, where their big picture ideas and creative world emerge. But the hard part, as we all can attest, is how to minimize distractions to let those ideas happen in the first place. The secret for Claud is two-fold: never use in flight wi-fi, and always take the new puppy for a walk first thing in the morning without a...

"It's trash that evokes emotion," says Chelsea Rifkin of Wilt referring to her junk journal. The singer for the LA-based band uses this journal as an important part of her songwriting process. The title is literal: "It's a scrapbook of trash that I get throughout the day." 

Rifkin showed me one of the journals. It was filled with napkins, stickers, cards, menus, wrappers--literally anything that might evoke a memory later on. This makes perfect sense because touching and seeing a concrete object from a past event would seem to evoke a more powerful memory than re-reading just y...

"I get a prebiotic soda and some popcorn, then head upstairs to write. And if I'm not feeling it, I leave." Joy Oladokun is nothing if not brutally efficient in her songwriting process. There's no room for wasted time. "I work fast but never in a rush," she says. Oladokun writes most of her songs in a matter of minutes, but that's because she's methodical, not haphazard.

Oladokun likes to write in the morning, ideally among birds. "I love the morning because I get to see the world change," she says. Oladokun sits on the porch in...

“I love to sing out loud there. No one can hear me because everyone is, well, underground,” says Julia Jacklin. And if that’s not the best reason for singing in a cemetery, I don’t know what is. 

Walking is a daily and essential part of Jacklin’s process. “I’m obsessed with walking,” she says. There are two kinds of walks to Jacklin’s process. The first is when she goes with nothing on her mind; this is for filling the well with inspiration. The second is what she calls “intentional walking to get the lyrics right. I alway...

"I like to write at my desk," says Brennan Wedl. It makes me feel like a professor, so it's correlated with discipline in my brain. It's like a writing altar." This tracks with Wedl's penchant for adhering to a writing ritual and its attendant discipline. She's a big fan of Post-it notes, loves to get up early and feel the sun on a morning walk, and believes in the power of a schedule. But as you'll hear, when she really wants to "lock it in," she turns to the power of chewing gum.

Brennan Wedl self-titled debut...

"I have my best thoughts in total comfort and complete boredom," Taja Cheek (known professionally as L'Rain) says. After all, who doesn't prefer a good couch or bed when they write? But when it comes to pure inspiration, Cheek likes to be "alone together": around people but deep in her own thoughts. That's why she loves the New York City subway and what she calls "intentional walking" on the city streets amidst all its distractions. But as you'll hear, nothing beats a good cab ride. 

L'Rain's latest album is fata morgana.

"I like to do things that make me feel integrated with the environment," says Margaret Glaspy. Broadly, Glaspy's process involves a general resistance to technology, which is why we had a great discussion about the benefits of cursive. It should also come as no surprise that Glaspy believes in pen and paper (and very specific kinds) for her lyrics. 

This resistance to technology is borne out the correct belief that it destroys our ability to focus, so Glaspy writes in fifteen minute increments punctuated by short breaks. Glaspy does this for as long as she stays inspired. A...

Ketch Secor of Old Crow Medicine Show is the first person I’ve interviewed to compare the songwriting process to feline copulation. But this unique metaphor actually reflects Secor’s deep introspection: only someone who reads all the time would even consider how these two events are related. And Secor reads. All. The. Time.

Old Crow Medicine Show’s latest album is Union Made.

"You need to be somewhere where you allow yourself to be totally stupid," say Jess Wolfe and Holly Laessig of Lucius. Not great life advice, but it's fantastic advice for the creative process. In other words, the initial stage of any creative process means getting out of your own way and releasing all inhibitions. It's about putting everything down on paper, no matter how stupid, and deciding later whether it belongs. 

Wolfe and Laessig's initial stage involves fantastic word games. One will open a book, close her eyes, then put their finger on a random word. They t...

Kyle Grim of Dogwood Tales was born in the wrong century. He really belonged among the Romantic poets, who saw the purity of nature as a source of renewal. I mentioned this to Grim after he told me that a large part of his process revolves around the wonderment of nature. He loves to walk, and in those moments he finds beauty in water, the shadows of trees, and even the ducks. Then again, Grim counts William Faulkner and Breece D'J Pancake among his favorite writers, so his actual influences are more modern. 

The first time I h...

Jim James needs a bigger head. How else to accommodate all the bursts of creativity he has throughout the day? They happen all the time. The My Morning Jacket frontman finds art galleries to be a particularly rich source of inspiration, but he also loves a good walk. Even the middle of the night is productive for James, though he admits that’s because of his insomnia. Who needs to force the process when your day is filled with ideas?

Jim James’s latest album is Wowed Out

You have seen Alicia Witt. Of that I can be sure since she's appeared in so many movies and tv shows. (She starred most recently opposite Nicolas Cage in Longlegs.) But Witt is also an accomplished piano player and singer/songwriter; it's not something she does in her spare time as a hobby. Her upcoming album is her fifth release, and her experience as an actor informs her songwriting process in the attention she pays to her lyrics.

Alicia Witt's latest album is Between Heaven and Earth. The album was inspired by Witt's enduring friendship with David...

Tyler Mabry and Harlow Phillips of Athens-based hey, nothing have been friends since middle school. And when you've grown up with your songwriting partner, you have a good idea of what makes for an efficient writing process. Both have a clear idea of how to set up for success when they write, down to where and when they're the most productive. This includes the secret to editing: try to do it when you're sick.

hey, nothing's major label debut Hound is out on on Music Soup/Interscope Records.

Took a wonderfully deep dive into the songwriting process with David Shaw of The Revivalists. We discuss middle of the night epiphanies, how mishearing a lyric can make for a better lyric, and how reading great literature makes for better songwriting. 

The latest album by The Revivalists is Get It Honest.

Lenny Kaye's tenure as Patti Smith's guitarist and collaborator extends from 1971 to the present, but the 79 year old is only now releasing his debut solo album. The punk icon and pioneer is also the author of three books, so this episode is a deep dive into the writing process across a few genres. As you can imagine, Kaye doesn't believe in creating when the mood strikes; instead, it's a constant in his life. 

Lenny Kaye's debut solo album is Goin' Local

"I don't like closing a book on words, not even my laptop," says Alex Cameron. This is no metaphor. Cameron means this literally because he always wants to be able to see his words. He keeps a giant piece of butcher paper spread out on his table 24/7. This butcher paper contains all of his writing, and I mean all: text message drafts, lists, lyrics, journal writing. Anything that gets written down goes here as opposed to a notebook or laptop or phone, and since he's always walking by the table or sitting at it, he has unfettered access to...

"You don't have to be a tortured artist to write a song, but it's important to write about what you're feeling and not run away from it," Azniv Korkejian (aka Bedouine) says about her songwriting process. As proof, she tells a story about how she sobbed the first time she played one of her new songs for her husband.

As you'll hear, there's no better place to write those songs than the local public library, and Bedouine provides some pretty powerful reasons why. 

Bedouine's latest album is Neon Summer Skin

It's not often (ever?) that I get to talk Hegel, Jung, and Goethe with songwriters. But Dragos Chiriac of Men I Trust and I go deep into philosophy in this episode. I am a huge fan of the band and enjoyed our discussion immensely as we talk about the impact these writers have on Chiriac and why he returns to them over and over.

Lest you think this episode was all about existential angst, we also discussed the relatively simple reason why the band wrote my favorite Men I Trust song "Billie Toppy."

"The failure is not in writing a bad song. The failure is in writing no song." 

Keenan O'Meara has always honored the value of work. Maybe it's because he's also a carpenter by trade, but discipline is his asset even though it's not something that comes naturally. "You have to teach yourself how to work. We've been tricked by the idea of divine inspiration for far too long," he told me. Carpentry has been a boon to his process. "It's great for songwriting. If you ever find yourself out of songwriting ideas, get a carpentry gig." I h...

Jason Newsted blends words and acrylics. Literally. The former Metallica bassist and leader of Jason Newsted and the Chophouse Band is also an accomplished painter, and to get started he'll often write song lyrics (not his own) on a blank canvas, then paint over them. The lyrics serve as a way to stimulate his creative process as his brush strokes move over the words and mix. Newsted gives me a great example of how he recently did this with a Jim Croce song. 

This episode is a deep discussion about the creative process and what drives us t...

I'd like to call myself an OG Widowspeak fan, as I told Molly Hamilton. I saw them when they opened for 2:54 back in 2011 or 2012 on their first tour, and I became an instant fan.  Hamilton and I go deep into the songwriting process, including how jobs outside of songwriting can be a boon for creativity--in Hamilton's case it's the food industry, and in her husband Robert Earl Thomas's case it's carpentry--and how becoming a new parent changes, well, everything when you're a two-person band and you're married.

The latest Widowspeak album is Roses. 

"Hard work is important, and it feels good. My family put a lot of stake into working hard, so it's been ingrained in me," Nick Allbrook of Pond told me. We did this interview at 6:30am his time, so that's all you need to know about his discipline. 

But hard work means nothing if you're not attuned to your environment. Allbrook has that covered too: "You miss out on all of life's beautiful moments and forget that you're a writer if you're always staring at your phone. Once you put it down, inspiration is everywhere." 

Po...

Go Dawgs! Loved having the Athens-bred Futurebirds on the pod. They're no longer college students at the University of Georgia, of course, but as longtime friends and bandmates they've evolved from students to family men. As you'll hear, their songwriting processes have evolved accordingly.

The latest album by Futurebirds is Far Out Country. 

"If I could sum up my process, it would be this: finish everything," says Ben Gibbard of Death Cab for Cutie. "I finish every song I start even if I know in the first verse that it’s a complete pile of shit. I finish it because there might be a lyrical idea or a theme in the third verse or the chorus or the bridge that I can use somewhere else."

Unsurprisingly, Gibbard calls himself a "completionist." He finishes every song he starts writing, every book he begins reading. It's no mystery why he's so prolific, of...

Greg Mendez has a shelved album concept that he says you can have if you're a songwriter. The plan was to center each song around the rhythm of a different car's turn signal, and the title of the song would simply be the car's name (so "2003 Honda Accord," for example.) It never came to fruition of course, but it illustrates Mendez's hyperfocus on his environment as he mines for song ideas. 

Mendez's latest album is Beauty Land.

The formula is simple. Step one, read great Irish literature. Step two, write killer songs. It's worked pretty well for Euan Manning of Cardinals so far. The Irish songwriter for the Cork-based band rattles off writers who have influenced him, and my god does he have impeccable taste: Flann O'Brien, Martin McDonagh, Kevin Barry, among others. As I always say, a clear through line travels from reading great writing to writing great words. 

The debut album by Cardinals is Masquerade.

"A great way to write is to overwrite. Write more verses than could be contained in a song. Then take the best of what's there," says Rostam Batmanglij. I cannot agree more: good writers know that the first pass is never the time to decide what to keep and what to leave out. Overwriting will always be faster. Just ask Anne Lamott.

Of course, overwriting for Rostam comes easy because when he's not writing, he's thinking about writing. "I'm always collecting building blocks," he says. "Lots of kernels all the time. I've never truly let go of...

"When I'm not self-conscious, I tend to write better stuff. I need the dud sessions before I make progress," says Emma Jansson of Girl Scout. Good writing in the initial stages is indeed all about getting out of your own way and applying the Anne Lamott method. And it's why Jansson often starts her writing process with a pen and paper instead of a keyboard because, as she explains, "I don't edit as much when I use pen and paper. I respect the initial thought more."

Girl Scout's debut album Brink is out now.

"We should see how many disco records were made in the winter," Kevin Drew of Broken Social Scene said. And with that, we ventured into the intersection of songwriting and meteorology: how weather patterns and temperature affect the creative mind. 

The Canadian songwriters I've interviewed tend to be seasonal writers. Many tend to write more during the winter, when they're likely to be holed up inside. Drew and I even dared start a new east coast vs. west coast feud as we pondered whether east coast writers are more productive because their seasons are more defined. But r...

Jena Malone had me at the poet Edna St. Vincent Millay. When the actor/songwriter started our discussion talking about Millay and the profound effect poetry has on her songwriting process, I swooned. There’s a theme here: I’ve had a lot of actor/songwriters on the pod recently (Maya Hawke, Sasha Spielberg, The Wolff Brothers) and it’s not surprising that, given their other day jobs when they’re not singing, language is particularly important in their songwriting process. 

Malone is also a parent, and we discuss the role that motherhood plays in her songwriting process...

All you need to know about Maya Hawke's dedication to wordcraft is summed up in this memory: "The day I fell in love with my husband was the day we got into a fight about free verse poetry versus formal poetry." (Hawke's husband is singer/songwriter Christian Lee Hutson, whom I interviewed last year.)

Hawke is of course an actor (Stranger Things, Inside Out 2, among others) and a visual artist, but she's really a poet, first and foremost. Rarely have I encountered a songwriter with such passion for the literary artistry of the words on the page...

As a bilingual artist, Lolo Zouaï uses both English and French on her new album Reverie. Sometimes it's because the meaning of a word in one language is more precise for the song, while other times the sound of the word fits the melody better. We take a deep dive into Zouaï's songwriting process and discuss why she's not good at late-night writing sessions, why the bathroom is a great place to get rid of writer's block, and why she's much more productive when working on many things at once.

Donovan Woods is the master of the pull quote when it comes to the songwriting process. His words are wise counsel for any songwriter. To wit: "A good song asks questions rather than provides wisdom," and "When I have writer's block, it's because I'm not reading enough."

I'll quibble slightly with the latter quote only because I cannot imagine Woods getting writer's block: the last three minutes of this episode are nothing but Woods listing all the authors who inspire him. And that includes the iconic poet Paul Muldoon, a recent guest on this show whom Woods...

I wasn't surprised when Sasha Spielberg--an actor, visual artist, and musician who records as Buzzy Lee--told me that she once cried listening to the score to E.T., one of her father's most famous movies. I was surprised, however, when she told me that she also cried watching "The Real Housewives of Orange County." But that's why this convo with Spielberg is one of the funnest I've ever done. (And yes, funnest is a word.) As you'll hear, both events are tied to her creative process.

I've interviewed many songwriters with careers in other artistic mediums (Jeff...

Morgan Nagler has co-written with HAIM, Phoebe Bridgers, Kim Deal, Madi Diaz, and Margo Price among others. And now comes her fantastic debut solo album I've Got Nothing to Lose, and I'm Losing It. We go deep into her songwriting process on the pod, including a discussion of why physical movement is so important to the creative process.

My New Band Believe is Cameron Picton's new band after his time as the bassist and sometimes frontman for black midi. We go deep into his songwriting process, including a discussion of how sounds outside the studio affect his songwriting. 

My New Band Believe's self-titled debut is on Rough Trade Records.

It's the return of Carl Newman of The New Pornographers! We were just kids back in 2015 when I first interviewed Newman and we discussed his love of the 10cc song "Dreadlock Holiday." We return to that song in this episode, and we span the entirety of Newman's songwriting process, including a great discussion of why writing badly is so important and why gibberish is a great way to jump start the process.

The New Pornographers' latest album is The Former Site Of  on Merge Records.

"I'm a jacket man," King Tuff (aka Kyle Thomas) told me as we discussed why feeling good is important to the songwriting process. I had mentioned a writer who told me that he must wear a winter coat when he writes--even during the Washington, DC summers where he lives. This is not a complicated idea: if we're in a good headspace, we're more likely to be productive and write good songs. "I want to feel like I'm sparkling and then want the songs to feel like treasure, like candy," Thomas says.

But touch is not the only...

"I very much consider myself a writer," Lindsey Jordan (Snail Mail) says. And any good writer has a ritual. Part of Jordan's ritual involves the balance between keeping the writing process precious and recognizing that too much preciousness can create a rut. Regardless, Jordan's love of reading (and poetry!) makes her one hell of a lyricist. 

Snail Mail's latest album is Ricochet.

Nate Ruess's songwriting catalog includes his Grammy winning band Fun; his co-write and co-performance with P!nk on "Just Give Me a Reason"; and songs for Hayley Williams, Kesha, and Young Thug. After feeling no urge to write for ten years, he's back with the first new material in twenty years for his band The Format.  Their new album is Boycott Heaven. And as you'll hear, nothing gets Ruess in the songwriting groove quite like a good, long run along the beach.