The Deconstructionists

What if accepting evolution didn’t require abandoning faith?

Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray returns to The Deconstructionists to talk about her new book, Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God.

Janet is a science educator, author, and Jesus follower who was herself raised within creationism. In her latest book, she tackles one of the most persistent points of tension between modern science and certain expressions of Christianity: human evolution.

In Part One of our conversation, we dig into the remarkable story of how life developed on Earth and eventually produced us...

After more than ten years of conversations about faith, doubt, theology, identity, and the questions that reshape us, The Deconstructionists is entering its final chapter.

In this special update, John reflects on how the show began, the philosophy that guided it, what has changed in the deconstruction space over the past decade, and why the time feels right to bring the weekly podcast to a close at the end of 2026.

But this isn’t goodbye just yet.

There are still new guests and conversations ah...

What does it really mean to be present with another person?

In Part Two of John's conversation with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, the discussion moves beyond defining modern chaplaincy and into the heart of spiritual care itself.

Rather than offering easy answers or trying to fix people's pain, today's chaplains often practice something much more difficult: accompanying people through uncertainty, grief, trauma, and profound life transitions. In a culture that values certainty, productivity, and quick solutions, this conversation explores the transformative power of simply showing up.

Rev. Sally shares how contemporary chaplains understand...

What comes to mind when you hear the word "chaplain"?

For many of us, it's an older Christian minister carrying a Bible into a hospital room to pray with patients. But what if that image no longer reflects the reality of modern spiritual care?

In Part One of this conversation, John sits down with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, board-certified chaplain, ACPE Certified Educator, and Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at Johns Hopkins Hospital, to explore how chaplaincy has transformed over the past several decades.

Today's chaplains come from an extraordinary range of religious...

What if one of the Bible's most famous stories isn't really about a hero and a villain?

For centuries, many of us have been taught to read the story of Jacob and Esau through a familiar lens: Jacob, despite his flaws, is God's chosen son, while Esau becomes little more than the cautionary tale of the brother who "despised his birthright." But what happens when we slow down, revisit the text, and listen to voices from within the Jewish tradition?

In this episode of The Deconstructionists, John explores one of Genesis' most fascinating—and misunderstood—rela...

In Part 2 of our conversation with grief coach, author, and podcaster Shelby Forsythia, we dive deeper into her brand-new book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now.

Most of us want to help when someone we love is grieving. The problem is that we've never been taught how. Instead, we fall back on clichés, platitudes, and well-meaning advice that often leaves grieving people feeling even more isolated.

Shelby argues that what grieving people need most isn't fixing, solving, or explaining. They need presence.

In this episode, we explore why grief makes people uncomfortable, h...

What happens when grief changes not just your life… but your identity?

In part one of this conversation, John sits down with author, grief guide, and speaker Shelby Forsythia to discuss her new book and the complicated, deeply human realities of loss, healing, and personal transformation.

Together, they explore the myths we inherit about grief, why so many people feel pressure to “move on” too quickly, and how grief can quietly reshape our relationships, spirituality, and sense of self. Rather than offering clichés or easy answers, Shelby approaches grief with honesty, compassion, and a willing...

What if one of the most influential ideas in modern Christianity… didn’t actually come from Jesus?

In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we explore the history and impact of dualism — the ancient belief that spirit is good while matter, bodies, and the physical world are somehow lesser, corrupt, or evil.

From Plato and Greek philosophy to Gnosticism and modern evangelical culture, we trace how dualistic thinking quietly shaped theology, sexuality, purity culture, views of the body, the afterlife, politics, and even the way many Christians understand salvation itself.

We ask questions like:<...

In Part 2 of our conversation, Bart Ehrman returns to discuss his latest book, Love Thy Stranger, and the lasting impact Jesus’ teachings had on moral thought in the Western world.

We continue exploring how ideas surrounding compassion, forgiveness, charity, and care for outsiders emerged within early Christianity — while also wrestling with the ways institutions and political movements have often failed to embody those same values.

In this episode we discuss:

Dr. Bart Ehrman – Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West (Part 1)

In Part 1 of our conversation with renowned New Testament scholar and historian Dr. Bart Ehrman, we dive into his latest book, "Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West".

For centuries, people have debated whether Christianity has been a force for compassion or division. But what if one of the most radical moral ideas in human history came directly from the teachings of Jesus himself?

In this ep...

In Part 2 of our conversation with Lillian Daniel, we move deeper into the tensions at the heart of her story—and the bigger questions it raises for the modern church.

If Part 1 explored what happened, this episode asks what it means.

We talk about accountability, institutional systems, and whether the church is actually capable of handling failure in a way that leads to healing rather than harm.

📚 About Lillian Daniel

Lillian Daniel is an ordained minister in the United Churc...

📝 Episode Summary

Drawing from her new book, Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church, Lillian shares her journey through ministry, the unexpected challenges she encountered, and the moments that forced her to rethink long-held assumptions about leadership, faith, and belonging.

This episode is an honest look at what happens when certainty begins to crack—and why that might not be the end of faith, but the beginning of something more real.

📚 About the Book

Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Be...

What happens when the version of you that survived… isn’t the version of you that’s whole?

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Cristy Carr, we move deeper—beyond awareness and into the work of healing. Together, we explore what it looks like to reconnect with the parts of ourselves that were silenced, shaped, or suppressed by trauma, religious systems, and the need to belong.

This episode isn’t about quick fixes or easy answers. It’s about the slow, often uncomfortable process of becoming whole again.

🧭 Episode Summary

Who were you… before you were told who to be?

For many of us—especially those shaped by religious systems—identity isn’t something we discovered. It’s something we inherited.

Beliefs. Roles. Expectations.

All layered over time until the line between who we are and who we were told to be becomes hard to see.

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, we sit down with Cristy S. Carr to explore the core ideas behind her book The...

Episode: Violence and the Bible – What Do We Do With It?

🧭 Episode Summary

Violence is everywhere in the Bible—and for many, it’s one of the most difficult aspects of scripture to reconcile with the idea of a loving God.

In this episode, John explores one of the most pressing and personal questions facing modern readers of the Bible:

What do we do with the violence in scripture—and what does it mean for us today?

Prompted by...

The Deconstructionists Podcast

Guest: Dr. Michelle Keener

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Keener, we go deeper into the themes of her book, Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors, and what it means to engage scripture after certainty has cracked.

If Part 1 explored how harmful interpretations take root, this episode focuses on what comes after—especially for those navigating trauma, deconstruction, and the loss of familiar frameworks.

In this episode, we discuss:

In this first part of our conversation, we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Keener, author of Comfort in the Ashes: Explorations in the Book of Job to Support Trauma Survivors.

The Book of Job is often cited in conversations about suffering—but just as often, it’s been used to minimize pain, rush people toward answers, or reinforce harmful ideas about God, blame, and endurance. In Comfort in the Ashes, Dr. Keener offers a different approach: one that reads Job through the lens of trauma, care, and lived human experience.

In P...

In Part Two of our conversation with John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, we move from historical foundations to present-day consequences.

Once Jesus is understood within the realities of Roman imperial power, the implications become unavoidable — especially in a moment when Christianity in the United States is increasingly entangled with political authority, violence, and domination.

In this episode, we explore:

In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we’re joined by John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz for the first part of a wide-ranging conversation about Jesus, empire, and why historical context matters now more than ever.

As religion, power, and nationalism continue to collide in the United States, this conversation feels remarkably timely — not because it’s reacting to current events, but because it’s rooted deeply in history.

In Part One, we focus on setting the foundation:

In this deeply moving conversation, John sits down for part two with Valentyn Syniy, a Ukrainian pastor, theologian, and author whose life and ministry have been profoundly shaped by the reality of war.

This interview was recorded under extraordinary circumstances. Scheduling had to account for the very real possibility of Russian airstrikes and power outages. Valentyn’s wife graciously joined the conversation to assist with translation at moments, helping ensure that everything Valentyn wanted to communicate was conveyed with clarity and care.

Together, we explore:

In this deeply moving conversation, John sits down with Valentyn Syniy, a Ukrainian pastor, theologian, and author whose life and ministry have been profoundly shaped by the reality of war.

For many of us—especially those who have never served or lived in a war-torn region—war can feel abstract. Something debated from a distance. Should troops be sent? Should they not? But for Valentyn and millions of others, war is not theoretical. It is daily life. It is uncertainty, fear, loss—and for many, hell experienced in the here and now.

This episode dismantles the most persistent myths surrounding immigration and replaces them with how the system actually works.

We walk through immigration policy historically and in real time—naming the racial roots of U.S. immigration law, explaining why “just do it legally” is not a serious policy position, and breaking down the real costs, timelines, and barriers people face today.

We also look at crime data, benefits myths, economic contributions, and the very real impact current enforcement strategies are having on American farmers and food systems.

This episode steps back and asks a harder question:

What has the church done in moments like this before—and what does faithfulness actually require now?

We begin with church history, tracing how Christians have repeatedly been asked to bless state violence in the name of order and safety. We examine how labels like “criminal,” “terrorist,” and “threat” have historically been used to short-circuit moral responsibility.

We then turn to Scripture—not as proof texts, but as story—allowing the biblical narrative to confront modern assumptions...

When Fear Becomes Policy

In this episode, we address what’s happening right now in the United States as Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operations escalate in visibility, intensity, and violence.

This is not a political episode.

It’s a human one.

We examine verified facts, video evidence, and legal realities surrounding recent enforcement actions, including documented cases involving American citizens, the failure to follow established protocols after lethal force, and the growing pattern of intimidation, escalation, and public spec...

Episode Description

In Part Two of our conversation with Alexander Shaia, we move beyond theory and into practice—exploring what spiritual transformation actually looks like in real life.

In Part One, we traced the foundations of Dr. Shaia’s work and why his approach to the Gospels resonates so deeply with people navigating faith, doubt, and deconstruction. In this episode, we go deeper—into lived experience, inner change, and the courage it takes to move forward when certainty falls away.

Dr. Shaia...

A Holiday Conversation with Dr. Alexander Shaia — 

Part 1

For many people, the holiday season isn’t filled with joy and nostalgia — it’s filled with grief, loneliness, exhaustion, and complicated memories. This episode is especially for those who find this time of year difficult.

In Part One of this two-part holiday conversation, we’re joined by our dear friend Alexander Shaia for a reflective, unhurried dialogue about meaning, presence, and the wisdom found in honoring seasons rather than fighting them.

Rather than offering pl...

Episode Summary:

Part 2 of our conversation with philosopher and friend of the show Peter Rollins goes even deeper into the psychological, existential, and communal dynamics of faith and identity. If Part 1 set the stage, Part 2 pulls the curtain all the way back.

This is one of those conversations that lingers. It’s dense, it’s provocative, and it’s full of the kind of insights that Pete has become known for all around the world.

Resources & References:

Episode Summary:

In this long-awaited return to the podcast, philosopher, storyteller, and longtime friend of the show Peter Rollins joins us for a rich, mind-bending conversation about faith, identity, and the transformative potential of doubt. Peter was one of our earliest guests and someone who understood the heart of this podcast from day one. After far too much time away, he’s back — and this conversation does not disappoint.

In Part 1, we dig into some of the themes Peter has become known for: embracing uncertainty, challenging religious narratives that promise certainty or comf...

🎉 We’ve Launched a Brand New Patreon!

After years of letting our old Patreon quietly collect dust, we’re excited to officially announce that The Deconstructionists Podcast now has a fully rebuilt Patreon — with brand new tiers, fresh content, and one beloved classic perk we kept just for you.

This podcast has always been — and still is — 100% independent. We cover the costs out of pocket, not because it’s easy, but because we believe in the conversations we’re having and in the community that’s grown around this w...

Episode Summary

In this deep-dive episode, we explore one of the most influential — and controversial — doctrines in the history of Christianity: Original Sin.

For many of us, Original Sin was presented as a foundational truth. We were told it explained everything wrong with humanity: our impulses, our desires, our bodies, our failures. But where did this idea actually come from? How did early Christian communities understand human nature? And how did one interpretation, shaped by the life and worldview of Augustine, grow into a theological framework that still impacts psychology, sexuality, gender, and...

Episode Overview

In this second half of John’s conversation with Pastor Joe Ingle, we continue exploring the deeply human, often heartbreaking realities of prison ministry — particularly Joe’s decades of work with individuals on death row.

If Part 1 introduced the calling and contours of his work, Part 2 steps fully into the emotional, spiritual, and ethical complexities of walking with people whom society has condemned and often forgotten. Joe shares stories from his time working with incarcerated individuals, the end-of-life moments he has witnessed, the failures and blind spots of our...

In this long-awaited and nearly lost conversation, John sits down with Pastor Joe Ingle, a longtime prison minister, advocate, and spiritual companion to people on death row. Joe’s work challenges our assumptions about justice, punishment, compassion, and what it means to show up for people society has thrown away.

This interview was recorded last year and was almost lost forever when the laptop it was saved on died unexpectedly. Miraculously, the file was recovered just in time — and we are finally able to share Part 1 of this important two-part conversation.

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Army Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Kerstin Hedlund. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, we recommend starting there for context.

Kerstin has spent years serving alongside soldiers in moments of grief, trauma, transition, and deep personal struggle. Her work isn’t about offering easy answers. It’s about presence, listening, and holding space for real human complexity.

This conversation is for anyone who has wrestled with suffering, loss, or disillusionment. It’s also for those who care deeply about someone who has serv...

Episode Summary

In this two-part conversation, John sits down with Pastor Kerstin Hedlund, a U.S. Army Chaplain whose story offers a rare window into what faith looks like when it’s lived out in the hardest and most human places.

From her path into military chaplaincy to the deep questions that arise in the presence of trauma and moral injury, Kerstin’s perspective brings theology down to earth — into barracks, hospitals, and battle zones — where hope, compassion, and grief often collide.

Togeth...

Episode: Hell, the Devil, and Atonement Theories

What exactly do Christians mean when they talk about hell? Where did the idea of the devil come from, and why does it look so different across the Bible? And why are there so many different theories of atonement—Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection—when most of us only ever hear one?

In this episode, we dig deep into the history, language, and theology behind three core ideas that have shaped Christianity for centuries:

Episode Description

In this episode, John takes on a question that’s been floating around the public conversation for years — often asked with fear, frustration, or misunderstanding: Is deconstruction a bad thing?

After years of listening to the debate unfold online and in church spaces, it felt like time to finally respond. This conversation is part of our current series tackling some of the most frequently requested topics from listeners — and few have come up as often as this one.

John explores what “deconstruction” actually means, why so many pe...

Episode Summary

You’ve probably heard it before: “The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality.” But is that actually true?

In this episode, we put that claim under a microscope. We dig into the six main passages most often cited against same-sex relationships, examine them in their original language and cultural context, and confront the translation choices and theological assumptions that have shaped centuries of Christian thought.

We also respond to common accusations from fundamentalist circles—that affirming interpretations “don’t take the Bible seriously” or are just “twisting Scripture to fit...

In Part Two of our interview with Sarah Hurwitz, we dive deeper into the big questions raised in Here All Along. Drawing on her experiences in both politics and faith, Sarah reflects on the role of ritual, the meaning of community, and how spiritual practices can ground us in an unsteady world.

In this episode, we discuss:

In this first half of our conversation with Sarah Hurwitz—author, former White House speechwriter, and chief speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama—we explore her journey from the political stage to a deeply personal exploration of faith. Sarah was part of President Obama’s speechwriting team, helping craft some of his most memorable addresses, before turning her attention to spirituality and Jewish identity.

Her latest book, Here All Along: Finding Meaning, Spirituality, and a Deeper Connection to Life—in Judaism (After Finally Choosing to Look There), invites readers to rediscover ancient wisdom and reimagin...

Episode Summary

The Bible is often treated as if it arrived perfectly bound, leather-covered, and gold-edged, straight from heaven. But the reality is far more complex—and far more interesting.

In this episode, we dig into the real history of how the Bible was formed—from its earliest writings to the process of canonization, from the Apocrypha to translation controversies, and why no one alive today has ever held an original manuscript.

We’ll talk about:

• When the books were likely written

• Who scholars t...