The Covert Narcissism Podcast

Covert narcissism survivors are turning to AI for support, but what happens when it gets your story wrong? In this episode, Renee welcomes back Anne Wintemute, founder of Aimee Says, an AI tool built specifically for people who are in, or recovering from, controlling, manipulative, and abusive relationships.

Anne explains why AI can only be as accurate as the context you give it, and why a missing detail can lead it to a conclusion that feels deeply invalidating to someone in narcissistic abuse recovery. She and Renee talk about the real benefits and pitfalls of AI, why...

Covert narcissism rarely says sorry out loud. Instead, it hands you a gift, plans a nice dinner, or turns on a sudden burst of affection — and calls it even. Renee Swanson breaks down why these gestures work like a reset button, closing the incident without ever offering the three things a real apology requires: accountability, humility, and vulnerability.

She reads a personal story from her upcoming book, This Is Not Okay, about watching her own son learn to accept a Sonic slushie in place of an apology from his father — and traces that pattern all the way back...

Covert narcissism recovery isn't just about understanding what happened to you — it's about finding your way back to yourself. In part two of this conversation, Renee continues talking with psychotherapist and author Amy Lewis Bear, picking up right at the emotional core of this discussion: vulnerability, and why it's often the very thing survivors of narcissistic abuse recovery are most afraid to offer again.

Amy shares two powerful stories from her own therapy practice — clients who spent years walking on eggshells and shrinking themselves inside relationships marked by trauma bonding and emotional dysregulation, and who eventually found the...

Covert narcissism doesn't always look like yelling or control — sometimes it's a completely ordinary conversation that somehow ends with you defending yourself against something you never said. This is what I call a circular conversation: every word you say gets fed through a filter that isn't listening to you, it's listening for a reason to feel attacked, or a reason to be right.

Using real, everyday examples — a comment about milk, a text about being home around 6 — I walk through exactly how neutral statements get twisted into accusations, why doing this to your spouse, the person who's suppos...

Covert narcissism doesn't always look like screaming matches or dramatic blowups — sometimes it looks like a slow, quiet erosion of who you are. In this episode, Renee sits down with psychotherapist and author Amy Lewis Bear, who has spent nearly twenty years helping people through narcissistic abuse recovery and emotionally abusive relationships, and who has lived through this pattern herself.

Amy is the author of From Charm to Harm: The Guide to Spotting, Naming, and Stopping Emotional Abuse in Intimate Relationships, where she identified more than fifty subtle tactics — including gaslighting — used to keep a partner off balanc...

Last week, we asked whether passive-aggressive behavior is always narcissistic. The answer was no — but that still left a big question: how do you actually tell the difference in real time, and what do you do once you know?

This episode gives you both. We go deeper into fear-based and care-based passive aggression — the kind that comes from being afraid of conflict, or from truly not wanting to hurt someone's feelings — and we talk honestly about how this pattern can show up even in survivors of covert narcissistic abuse themselves.

Then we get practical. You'll learn...

Did they make you feel guilty for taking time for yourself? In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, Renee Swanson reads through real responses from her Covert Narcissism Group — the private Facebook community she started in 2018 — after asking members one question: what do you do now, just because you enjoy it?

From napping and puzzles to solo walks, quiet mornings, and leaving the dishes in the sink, this episode explores how survivors of covert narcissistic abuse are reclaiming the small joys that were once used against them. Renee breaks down why covert narcissists sabotage self-care and auto...

Ever asked someone "are you okay?" and gotten a four-syllable "I'm fine" that clearly meant the opposite? That's passive-aggressive behavior — and it's one of the sneakiest patterns to name out loud, because it's built to be deniable.

In this episode, we break down the real signs of passive-aggressive behavior across relationships, family, friendships, and work — with specific examples you'll recognize immediately. Then we tackle the question listeners ask constantly: is all passive-aggressive behavior narcissistic?

The honest answer is no. Some people are passive-aggressive because they're genuinely afraid of conflict, not because they're trying to manipulate you...

What if the episode you already listened to still has more to teach you the second time around?

In this throwback episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, Renee revisits one of the most-requested episodes in the show's history — the original breakdown of the six types of narcissism: grandiose, vulnerable, malignant, communal, somatic, and cerebral. Instead of just replaying it, she reads back her own words from a year and a half ago and reframes them with everything she's learned since, including sharper insight into how covert narcissism shows up differently across each type, and what those patterns ac...

Covert narcissism doesn't just create crisis moments — it leaves your nervous system stuck in a chronic state of hypervigilance long after the argument ends. You can get good at managing the spike, catching yourself mid-reaction, and still lie awake at night with your jaw clenched and your shoulders up around your ears for no reason at all.

In this episode on narcissistic abuse recovery, Renee explains allostatic load — what happens when a nervous system adapts to years of walking on eggshells, gaslighting, and unpredictable moods in a covert narcissistic relationship, and never fully comes back down. She brea...

Ever ignored a gut feeling on a date because you wanted to "give him a chance"? In this episode, I'm sharing a conversation from Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse — host Dr. Kerry McAvoy sits down with Dr. Jennie Young, a PhD linguist and creator of the viral Burned Haystack Dating Method, to break down how the words men use in dating profiles and early text messages expose who they really are before you've ever met in person.

Dr. Young holds a PhD in rhetoric and discourse studies, specializing in critical discourse analysis — the study of how language reve...

If you've ever felt your chest tighten before your phone even finishes ringing, or braced for a reaction before you've said a single word — you already know what fight or flight feels like in a covert narcissistic relationship. It's rarely one dramatic moment. It's the accumulation: a grocery store phone call, an ordinary dinner plan, a night class — small moments that train your nervous system to expect danger from everyday life.

In this episode, part one of a two-part series on fight or flight and narcissistic abuse recovery, Renee breaks down what's actually happening in your body duri...

In Part 2 of this CNG Community Chat, Renee Swanson continues the conversation with three parents navigating parental alienation and covert narcissistic abuse — this time focused on how to protect the relationship with the children they still have access to, and how to hold onto hope with the ones they don't.

The conversation opens with a powerful explanation of why alienation happens the way it does: narcissists often break down the other parent first, creating chaos and instability, so they can step in as the "fun" or "stable" one by comparison — making it far harder for kids to see...

This isn't my story anymore. It's ours.

In this solo episode, I'm finally announcing something I've been sitting on for a long time: my book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, is coming this fall.

I walk you through the five stages this book moves through — the same stages so many of us move through on the way to healing from covert narcissistic abuse: recognizing, understanding, seeing, untangling, and reclaiming. I share what's inside each stage, including a few passages straight from the pages.

But more than an...

In this CNG Community Chat, host Renee Swanson sits down with three parents who are living through one of the most painful experiences a parent can face: watching a child be turned against them. This conversation covers parental alienation, covert narcissism, high-conflict divorce, and co-parenting with a narcissistic ex — and the very real toll it takes on the parent-child relationship.

Each parent shares the moment they first recognized what was happening. One mother describes how truths that surfaced during her divorce led her adult daughter to accuse her of "victim shaming" her father, and how setting boundaries af...

Have you ever discovered narcissism in your relationship, started reading everything you could find, and then panicked — wondering if you were the one who created the pattern you were seeing? In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, Renee Swanson opens up about a fear she's never shared before: the worry that dwelling on covert narcissism had somehow manifested it in her marriage. She walks through the exact passages from Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists that jumped off the page at her early in her journey, and why recognition is not the same thing as ma...

Narcissistic abuse and predatory behavior often hide in plain sight — and this episode pulls back the curtain on exactly how. In this special crossover conversation, I'm sharing an episode from Dr. Kerry McAvoy's podcast, Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse, featuring her conversation with Don Hennessy.

Don Hennessy is an Irish psychotherapist who has spent decades working directly with abusive men and their partners, giving him a rare, firsthand understanding of how predatory control actually operates. In this episode, Don and Kerry expose the hidden playbook these men use to infiltrate a partner's mind — often so gradually that she...

Narcissistic entitlement rarely looks like arrogance from the outside. Often it looks like two people with "different expectations" — normal disagreements, normal marriage friction. In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, Renee Swanson breaks down why that framing is misleading: in a relationship with a covert narcissist, one partner's expectations are about the relationship, and the other partner's expectations are simply about being served by it.

Renee shares her own story of slowly recognizing this pattern — long after she was living inside it — and unpacks the difference between expectations that include both people and expectations that only ever p...

Part two of this CNG Community Chat picks up where we left off, as four moms go deeper into what it's like to parent through covert narcissistic abuse. They talk honestly about whether they see these patterns showing up again in their kids' own relationships and friendships, and close with the one piece of advice each of them wishes she'd been given back when she was standing right where you might be standing now.

If this resonates, my coaching program can help you work through it one-on-one — learn more here: www.covertnarcissism.com

Want conversations li...

Covert narcissism doesn't always look like rage — sometimes it looks like a warm smile and a locked tower door. In this episode, we break down two Disney stories that map almost perfectly onto real narcissistic abuse patterns: Beauty and the Beast, and Tangled.

The Beast shows the overt side — imprisonment, an explosive temper, a rescue that resets everything, and the exact mechanics of trauma bonding when the source of fear and the source of safety are the same person. Mother Gothel shows the covert side — guilt instead of rage, conditional warmth instead of yelling, isolation dressed up as pro...

In this two-part CNG Community Chat, four moms sit down to talk about one of the hardest parts of covert narcissistic abuse recovery: watching your children start to see it for themselves. In part one, they share the specific moments — some sudden, some slow-dawning — when their kids realized what was really happening at home, and what daily life looks like now as their relationships with the other parent shift. If you've ever wondered how much your kids really see, or carried guilt about what they've lived through, this conversation will meet you right where you are.

If this...

When one parent shows up as the "nice, generous" one — buying gifts instead of ever offering real repair, gaslighting instead of listening — kids learn to distrust the very signals that are supposed to keep them safe. In this episode, Renee walks through practical, age-specific tools to help kids and teens of a covert narcissist reconnect with their own nervous system: how to recognize an emotional signal before it becomes a full-blown meltdown, how to separate a parent's gaslighting from their own gut-check, and how to teach a child that their feelings don't need anyone's permission to be real. Whether you...

In part two of this community chat, the conversation goes even deeper. We pick back up right where we left off — with Denise sharing what it actually took to go no contact after twenty-seven years of covert narcissistic abuse, including the post-separation hoovering, manipulation, and false self-awareness that so often follows a breakup or divorce with a covert narcissist. She also opens up about hitting a devastating low point before finally realizing that no contact was the only way forward — a moment that changes everything for her.

We talk about triangulation, and how a narcissistic paren...

If you've ever felt like something was missing in a relationship with a covert narcissist — a flatness, a lack of depth, a sense that you're never quite reaching the real person — this episode is for you.

In this episode, Renee breaks down the mask covert narcissists wear using a new framework: not a costume hiding a "true self," but a crown covering an exposed nerve that never developed protection. This reframe explains why the mask never fully comes off, and why even gentle honesty can trigger a reaction that feels wildly out of proportion.

You'll lear...

Some of the hardest questions in a narcissistic relationship don't have easy answers — and "do I stay, or do I go" is one of them. In this episode, I'm joined by three women from our CNG community for a raw, honest community chat about life inside a covert narcissistic relationship, and the impossible in-between of knowing something is wrong but not knowing what to do about it.

These ladies each share their own version of the fog — the gradual awakening to covert narcissism, the years spent believing this was just normal marital struggle, and the moment they fina...

When you finally speak your truth to a covert narcissist, you expect relief. What you don't expect is what comes next.

In this episode — the follow-up to Covert Narcissist Relationships: When You Can't Live the Lie Anymore — Renee Swanson walks through what actually happens in the aftermath of confronting a covert narcissist. Why love bombing feels like hope but is really about control. What a smear campaign looks like and why the people around you believe it. How to recognize when escalation and rage are designed to make you feel like the confrontation was your mistake.

Re...

Do you owe your toxic aging parent everything... or nothing? Clinical psychologist Dr. Lisa Stinson, author of The Obligation Myth: Rethinking What You Owe Your Difficult Aging Parent, joins the show to unpack what happens when a critical, dismissive, or covertly narcissistic parent starts needing care — and why "I do everything" or "I do nothing" was never the real choice.

We dig into the specific family roles that get assigned in childhood — the scapegoat, the golden child, the invisible child, and the enmeshed child — and how each one carries a different wound, gets triggered differently, and needs a comp...

There comes a point in a covert narcissistic relationship when you can no longer live the lie. Not a dramatic breaking point necessarily — sometimes it's a slow erosion that leaves you mentally exhausted, emotionally numb, and physically depleted. Sometimes it's a single moment of devastating clarity you can never unsee.

In this episode, Renee Swanson shares her own story of hitting the wall in her marriage to a covert narcissist — the slow erosion that wore away her mental bandwidth, her emotional capacity, and her physical health, alongside the quiet moment of clarity that changed everything. She breaks down...

Have you ever struggled to explain what's happening in your relationship — where nothing looks "bad enough" to point to, but something feels wrong every single day? In this episode, I'm joined by Anne Wintemute, co-founder and CEO of Aimee Says, an AI companion built specifically for survivors of covert abuse, coercive control, and narcissistic partners.

Anne spent years working directly with survivors navigating the family court system before she and her co-founder Steven asked a powerful question: could AI help survivors document, understand, and ultimately heal from what they'd been through? Today, Aimee Says has helped over 70,000 us...

Overthinking in a covert narcissistic relationship isn't a character flaw — it's what your brain does when it has learned, through real experience, that it cannot afford to relax. If you are in a relationship with a covert narcissist, you already know this feeling: lying awake at 2 a.m. replaying conversations, re-drafting texts, rehearsing arguments before they happen, scanning for a pattern that keeps shifting the moment you think you've found it.

In this episode, Renee Swanson of the Covert Narcissism Podcast breaks down why the overthinking mind develops in narcissistic relationships, how covert narcissists deliberately create confusion to...

Setting boundaries in a narcissistic relationship isn't just hard — it can feel impossible. In this Community Chat, Renee is joined by 2 ladies from the CNG community for an honest conversation about what boundaries really looked like in their relationships with covert narcissists.

They talk about growing up without healthy boundary models, what happened when they tried to voice even the most basic needs, and how guilt, fear, and exhaustion became part of their everyday lives. Miranda shares what it felt like to finally set a boundary and have it met with encouragement instead of punishment. Nicole opens up...

Covert narcissism and high control religion follow the same rulebook — and if you grew up in one before entering the other, this episode will explain why it all felt so familiar.

In this deeply personal episode, Renee Swanson shares her own experience navigating both a high control religious upbringing and a covert narcissistic marriage — and the moment in a counseling office when she realized the two were running on the exact same operating system. The same rules. The same tools. The same results.

This episode is not about turning anyone away from faith or church. Many...

When someone you love is in real, chronic pain — how do you set a boundary without feeling like a monster? This episode tackles one of the most complex and underaddressed dynamics in narcissistic abuse recovery: what happens when covert narcissism and chronic illness exist in the same relationship.

Prompted by a heartfelt question from a listener in a long-term marriage, this episode explores how legitimate vulnerability — illness, mental health struggles, financial hardship — can become a tool for guilt and obligation in the hands of a covert narcissist. We walk through the caretaker trap, how caring people get condit...

Covert narcissistic abuse doesn't just hurt you — it rewires you. In this episode, Renee breaks down why your fight/flight response gradually turned into fawning, and why that isn't a character flaw — it's survival.

You'll learn why fight, flight, freeze, and fawn aren't random reactions. They're a hierarchy based on how much self-advocacy you feel you have. And in a covert narcissistic relationship, that self-advocacy gets quietly, systematically dismantled — until fawning becomes your automatic default.

In this episode:

Have you ever felt like you were in a relationship that slowly burned you out — and you couldn't quite explain why? In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, host Renee Swanson breaks down Taylor Swift's "Dear John" through the lens of covert narcissistic abuse — and the patterns it reveals are ones you may know all too well.

We're talking about the moving goalposts. The walking on eggshells. The version of someone you keep trying to get back to. The moment you finally stopped picking up the phone. And the long list of "traitors" that tells you ever...

Today my older son moved out. He is 26 years old. And as I watched him go, the last 26 years played through my mind — the good, the bad, and everything in between.

If you are a parent in a narcissistic relationship, you know the fear I am talking about. The one that sits in your chest and doesn't announce itself. The one that whispers — will my child be okay? I lived with that fear for years. I watched my son go through depression, isolation, and seasons so dark I genuinely wondered if I was losing him. In January of 2...

If you’re in a relationship with a covert narcissist, you already know something feels deeply wrong — but you may not have the words for it yet. One of the most destructive and least talked-about patterns in narcissistic abuse is emotional dysregulation. And when a covert narcissist can’t manage their own emotions, the entire family pays the price.

In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, we break down exactly how a covert narcissist’s emotional dysregulation affects your marriage and your kids — and why the damage runs so much deeper than most people realize.

Have you ever looked in the mirror and not recognized the person staring back at you? If you've been in a relationship with a covert narcissist, chances are you know exactly what that feels like.

In this CNG Community Chat, I sit down with three women who each experienced the slow, painful erosion of identity that comes with covert narcissistic abuse. We talk about the moment they realized they had been making themselves smaller, the specific turning points that opened their eyes, and what the journey back to themselves has actually looked like.

From walking...

Here are the fully SEO-optimized versions:

TITLE: Top 10 Signs You're With a Covert Narcissist | Narcissistic Abuse & Relationship Patterns

PODCAST DESCRIPTION: Are you in a relationship that's hard to explain but impossible to ignore? You may be experiencing narcissistic abuse — and not even know it yet.

In this episode of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, Renee Swanson breaks down the Top 10 Signs You're With a Covert Narcissist. Unlike overt narcissism, covert narcissistic abuse is subtle, confusing, and incredibly difficult to identify — which is exactly what makes it so damaging.

If you've been walking on e...

What if the most controlling relationship you've ever heard of isn't happening in a compound somewhere, but behind closed doors in an ordinary home?

In this episode, Renee sits down with Rachel Bernstein, one of the country's leading cult interventionists and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with over 30 years of experience. Together they unpack one of the most eye-opening parallels in psychology: the stunning overlap between cult tactics and covert narcissistic relationships.

If you've ever felt like you needed permission to exist in your own relationship — this episode will explain why.

In th...