Lessons I Learned in Law
Scott Brown is a 'recovering lawyer'. Following years working in international law firms, Scott now runs Heriot Brown, a Legal Recruitment business. His extensive discussions with people across the legal profession have given him insight into what makes lawyers tick. Now, Scott shares those insights with you - to help you in your career. On each episode Scott invites guests to leave their egos at their door, share their professional successes and challenges, as well as the lessons they've learned in law. Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment. Follow Heriot Brown:Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram
Think Like the Business: Lucy Tyrrell at Wordsmith AI on Legal Engineering, AI and Smarter In-House Teams
Lucy Tyrrell, General Counsel at Wordsmith AI, joins Scott Brown to explore how in-house lawyers can evolve by combining legal expertise with technology, process design, and commercial thinking.
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Lucy shares her journey from private practice into high-growth tech environments, culminating in her role at a fast-scaling legal AI startup backed by Index Ventures and General Catalyst. Sitting at the intersection of law and product, she offers a unique perspective on what it means to be an “AI-native” legal function—where lawyers don’t just advise the business, but actively...
🎙️ Step Outside Your Swim Lane: Jonathan Wiseman at Ocado Retail on Influence, Risk and Career Growth
Jonathan Wiseman, General Counsel and Chief People Officer at Ocado Retail, joins Scott Brown to share practical lessons on influence, adaptability, and building a truly commercial legal career.
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Jonathan reflects on his dual role leading both legal and people functions within a fast-growing retail joint venture between Ocado and Marks & Spencer. He shares why the most effective in-house lawyers don’t stay confined to their “legal lane,” but instead operate confidently in the grey areas between legal risk, commercial decision-making, and broader business strategy.
Jonathan’s second l...
🎙️ Perspective, Candour and Strategic Leadership: Rachel Canham at Rentokil Initial (100th Episode Special)
Episode 100: Perspective, Candour, and Strategic Leadership — Rachel Canham, Rentokil Initial
 In the 100th episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Rachel Canham, Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at Rentokil Initial, reflects on what it actually takes to operate as a strategic leader at executive level — across a legal function of around 70 lawyers spanning 90 countries.
 Rachel stepped into her first "top seat" role after a career that took her from private practice through senior in-house roles, and the shift required more than technical excellence. It required a change in mindset and respon...
Lean Into Your USP: Dean Nash at Banco Santander on Momentum, Leadership and Legal Transformation
Dean Nash, Global Chief Operating Officer for Legal at Banco Santander, joins Scott Brown to share practical leadership lessons from operating at scale within one of the world’s largest legal functions.
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Dean reflects on his move away from the traditional General Counsel path into a newly created global operations role focused on transforming a 1,700-lawyer legal organisation. His first lesson centres on identifying and leaning into your unique strengths. Rather than obsessing over weaknesses, he explains how recognising what genuinely gives you energy can unlock unexpected career op...
🎙️ Insight Over Information: Justine Campbell at National Grid on Context, Integrity and Leading at Scale
Justine Campbell, Chief Legal Officer at National Grid, joins Scott Brown to share grounded leadership insights from operating at the centre of a complex, global energy business.
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Justine reflects on what it truly means to influence at senior level in-house. She explains why the most effective lawyers focus on delivering insight rather than just information, understanding business context, stakeholder priorities and the pace at which decisions need to be made.
She also explores how strong legal leadership is built through assembling diverse, high-performing teams. From creating...
Beyond the Title: Kevin Massie on Earning Your Seat at the Table as GC of a FTSE 30
Season 9 of Lessons I Learned in Law opens with a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Kevin Massie, Chief Legal, Risk, Governance and Compliance Officer at Imperial Brands PLC, a FTSE 30 business with 25,000+ employees globally.
Just over a year into the role, Kevin reflects on stepping into one of the UK’s most senior in-house legal positions and why the title alone doesn’t guarantee influence.
Kevin’s first lesson centres on work-life balance, but not in the traditional sense. From late-night IPO drafting as a trainee in Canada to naviga...
We are LIVE! With Jim Reid, CLO at Fortis Inc.
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues!
This week, Scott is joined by Jim Reid, Chief Legal Officer at Fortis, the $35bn North American utilities group headquartered in Newfoundland, Canada. Jim’s career shift is one many lawyers dream about but rarely execute—moving directly from partnership at leading Canadian firm Davies into his first-ever in-house role as a general counsel.
In this episode, Jim reflects on the lessons forged during nearly twenty years in private practice and the mindset required to thrive once inside the C-suite. His firs...
Stephanie Lopes, Chief Legal Officer at Volt.io on Courage, Clarity & Stepping Into Leadership
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Stephanie Lopes, Chief Legal Officer at Volt.io, the UK-based fintech scale-up powering global instant payments through open banking. Stephanie joined Volt after a decade in the tech transactions team at Bird & Bird, where she worked closely with the founders from their earliest days and even drafted Volt’s first client contract.
In this conversation—recorded just weeks before she goes on maternity leav...
General Counsel and Executive Team Member at Fugro, Katja Fenton on Leadership, Integrity, Allyship & Stepping Into the C-Suite
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Katja Fenton, General Counsel and Executive Team Member at Fugro, the global geo-data company supporting safer infrastructure, offshore wind development, cleaner energy, and sustainable cities. Remarkably, Katja joined the conversation during her first 90 days—a pivotal moment when lessons feel sharpest, transitions feel largest, and instincts matter most.
Katja reflects on the early months of stepping into C-suite leadership while taking on...
🎙️ Build, Don’t Brew: Andy Cooke on Product Thinking, Influence & Culture at Perk
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Andy Cooke, Chief Legal Officer at Perk, the global business travel and expenses platform. Andy shares a grounded, refreshingly practical look at what it means to build and lead an in-house legal team inside a high-growth tech company.
Drawing on his experience at Perk and his earlier career in private practice and in-house, Andy unpacks three lessons centred on product thinking, influence and...
Perception, Empathy & AI: Carolyn Herzog on Leadership and Legal Innovation at Elastic
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Carolyn Herzog, Chief Legal Officer and Board Secretary at Elastic, the Dutch-headquartered, NYSE-listed global search and AI company. With a career spanning senior legal roles at Symantec, Arm, and now Elastic, Carolyn has led through major transformations in cybersecurity, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence.
In this episode, Carolyn shares three lessons that have shaped her approach to leadership and modern...
🎙️ Courage, Culture & Humanity: Emily Barker on Leading Global Legal at Arcadis
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Emily Barker, Global General Counsel and Executive Committee member at Arcadis, the Dutch-headquartered, Euronext-listed design, engineering, and sustainability consultancy employing more than 32,000 people worldwide.
Emily reflects on stepping into her first executive leadership role, moving beyond legal advice to help shape global business strategy. She shares how courage and optimism, two qualities not traditionally associated with lawyers, can transform teams and drive real-world...
Defining Legal’s Value: James Sullivan on Leadership, Risk and Reinvention in the Crypto Era
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by James Sullivan, an experienced General Counsel and business leader who most recently served as Group General Counsel at Bitstamp, one of the world’s longest-standing cryptocurrency exchanges.
James shares an inside look at what it’s like leading legal in the fast-moving world of digital assets — an industry that blends rapid innovation with complex regulation. With a background spanning GC, Chief Risk Office...
🎙️ From General Counsel to Managing Director: Jonathan Cope on Reinvention and Leadership at RSA Group
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Jonathan Cope, Managing Director of the Specialty Lines business at RSA Group Insurance. After a decade as General Counsel and executive-team member, Jonathan made the rare move from legal leadership into a commercial managing-director role. He reflects on what it’s been like to step out of law after nearly twenty years and into a market-facing position in an industry built on relationships.
...🎙️ Belief, Balance & Boldness: Portia Thornhill on Leadership and AI at Elixirr
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott is joined by Portia Thornhill, General Counsel and Partner at Elixirr, the challenger consultancy competing with the Big Four. Portia shares her journey from nearly a decade at Allen & Overy to building a thriving in-house career that ultimately led to partnership an exceptional recognition for an in-house lawyer.
Her lessons are grounded in resilience and reinvention. She reflects on stepping away from private practice to focus...
🎙️ Be Bold, Build Your Network: Frankie Williams on Leading Legal in AI at DeepL
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal AI platform built for in-house teams.
This week, Scott Brown is joined by Frankie Williams, Chief Legal Officer at DeepL, an AI-powered language platform transforming how people and businesses communicate across borders. Frankie shares insights from leading a global legal team through rapid growth, reflecting on lessons learned from an in-house career that’s taken her through IPOs, acquisitions, and advisory roles across the London tech scene.
Her th...
Multiple Truths Can Be True: Emilie Mathieu on Leading at Checkout.com
Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law kicks off in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal AI platform built for in-house teams.
Emilie Mathieu, General Counsel at Checkout.com, joins Scott Brown to share her journey from Amazon and eBay into the fast-paced world of fintech, where she now leads legal, compliance, and enterprise risk across a global team of 110.
In this conversation, Emilie reflects on stepping up from managing 14 people to an executive role in one of the world’s most dynamic payments companies. She shares candid lessons about people leadership, decision-making un...
Over-Communicate and Find a Way: Doug McClure on Legal Leadership in Defence at Northrop Grumman
Doug McClure, Senior Counsel at Northrop Grumman, shares lessons learned from more than two decades of in-house practice across heavy industry, infrastructure, and now one of the world’s largest aerospace and defence contractors.
Doug reflects on his eight years supporting Northrop Grumman’s European operations—navigating a highly regulated, high-stakes sector that demands clarity, trust, and creativity. He begins with the cornerstone of his approach: communication. Doug explains why over-communicating, building personal credibility, and managing expectations are non-negotiable for in-house lawyers, particularly when working across global teams and cultural contexts.
His second lesson is all ab...
🎙️ Make Your Boss Look Good: Nick Havers on Leadership, Curiosity and Visibility at Lockton
Nick Havers, General Counsel for Europe and now also Managing Principal at Lockton, the world’s largest privately owned insurance brokers, shares three sharp, experience-driven lessons shaped across more than a decade in the insurance broking sector.
 Nick’s recent promotion to Managing Principal, an honour usually reserved for client-facing, revenue-generating leaders, is a milestone not just for him, but for how lawyers are recognised as true business partners at Lockton. His elevation sends a powerful message: in-house legal leaders can and should have a seat at the table, valued alongside commercial leadership.
 Now sitting on the...
Focus on the stuff that matter: Law is Only Interesting to Lawyers: Pola Karolczyk on Communication, Courage and Career Shifts
 Pola Karolczyk, General Counsel and Chief People Officer at Cowboy, joins Scott to share her dynamic legal journey: from competition law in Poland and US law firms, to regulatory work at Apple, and now building the legal and people functions at a fast-moving e-bike scaleup.
 Pola reflects on three powerful lessons, beginning with the need to ditch legal jargon and speak human. She learned early on that most people, especially in business, aren’t interested in the mechanics of the law, just the outcome. This mindset has shaped her ability to communicate clearly, deliver pragmatic advi...
🎙️ Everything is Figureoutable: Tara Haig on Saying Yes, Showing Up, and Scaling as GC at Multiverse
Tara Haig, General Counsel at Multiverse, joins Scott to reflect on a legal career driven by curiosity, courage, and instinct. From saying yes to opening a New York office two years post-qualification to leading legal, privacy, and governance for one of the UK’s most prominent edtech scale-ups, Tara’s story is all about leaning into discomfort, and figuring it out along the way.Â
Now part of the exec team at Multiverse, a $1.7B AI-powered apprenticeship platform, Tara shares her take on three big lessons: embracing stretch opportunities (even when terrifying), understanding the commercial engine behind your busin...
🎙️ Eat Your Own Dog Food: Shelley McKinley on AI, Ambiguity, and Owning the Grey Areas
Shelley McKinley, Chief Legal Officer at GitHub and Vice President at Microsoft, joins Scott to share career-defining lessons from two decades at the sharp edge of tech, innovation, and regulation.Â
Now leading GitHub’s global legal, policy, and trust teams, Shelley offers a behind-the-scenes look at the early days of GitHub Copilot, launched before ChatGPT put generative AI on the map, and shares what it really means to advise on emerging technology when the law hasn’t caught up yet. She talks candidly about navigating ambiguity, making smart bets in fast-moving industries, and how the best legal advic...
🎙️ Forget the Patriarchy and Other Lessons in Leadership – Sam Plant, CLO at Müller UK*
Sam Plant, Chief Legal Officer at MĂĽller UK & Ireland, brings a refreshing mix of humility, insight and honesty to this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law. From risk-taking in legal advice to speaking up about gender inequality, Sam shares three candid lessons that challenge the status quo.
Leading the legal and compliance function across one of the UK’s best-known consumer brands—yoghurts, milk, desserts, and a vast B2B logistics network—Sam reflects on a career shaped as much by mistakes as by milestones. He explains why embracing the right kind of mistake can sharpen...
🎙️ Be Liquid, Fill Gaps: David Flavell on Global Experience and Strategic Influence at PepsiCo
David Flavell, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at PepsiCo, shares practical, hard-earned insights from a legal career that has spanned the globe—from Melbourne to Shanghai, Dubai to New York—culminating in one of the most senior legal roles in the Fortune 50.
Now leading a global legal function of 500+ professionals, David speaks candidly about how in-house lawyers can step into a more strategic mindset. He explains why legal leaders must go beyond technical skill and embrace being seen as commercial operators—riding potato trucks (literally), working side-by-side with business teams, and asking the questions no one expects lawyer...
🎙️ Trust Your Gut: Jorrit de Haan on Building Legal from Scratch at Mollie
Jorrit de Haan, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at Mollie, joins Scott to share the honest highs and hidden challenges of building an in-house legal function from the ground up.
Jorrit stepped into his first GC role at Mollie in 2021, tasked with transforming a handful of lawyers working reactively into a fully-fledged legal team. In this conversation, he shares the leadership lessons he’s learned along the way—starting with the golden rule that you can’t spend too much time on hiring. From trusting your gut when bringing people in, to protecting team culture and avoiding the “d...
🎙️ Healthy Laziness & Win-Win Lawyering: Roel Staes on 22 Years at FedEx
Roel Staes, until recently General Counsel International at FedEx, joins Scott to reflect on a 22-year in-house legal career that scaled from Benelux counsel to overseeing a 500-strong international legal, regulatory, security, and government affairs team.
In this wide-ranging episode, Roel shares candid lessons from the top—on everything from managing complexity in global organisations to learning how to communicate with clarity, brevity, and precision. A strong believer in over-communication and having your “memory card” ready, Roel explains why lawyers need to proactively articulate their value, insert themselves into business conversations, and take ownership beyond the job descri...
🎙️ No Jobs for Life: Emma Moloney on Crisis Leadership, Career Pivots, and Speaking Human
Emma Moloney, experienced General Counsel and in-house leader across media and tech, joins Scott to reflect on a career that has spanned continents, contracts, and crises. From early GC roles at National Geographic Channel and News UK, to launching crisis management workshops and mentoring lawyers, Emma’s journey blends legal leadership with creative problem-solving.
In this episode, Emma unpacks the lessons that have shaped her approach. She shares why mastering difficult conversations is a non-negotiable skill for leadership, why least-worst decisions are sometimes the hallmark of senior roles, and how embracing no jobs for life can foster re...
From M&A to Merlot: Jane Hyde on Embracing Career Detours and Speaking Human
Jane Hyde, Group General Counsel and Company Secretary at RWS Group PLC, shares a refreshingly non-linear legal career that took her from City law to investment banking, via a sabbatical in wine tasting — all the way to the executive team of a global AI-enabled language services business.
In this unfiltered episode, Jane reflects on the pivotal moments that shaped her leadership journey. From leaving Freshfields for the trading floor at JP Morgan, to taking a career break and topping the global wine diploma charts, Jane’s path is anything but typical. Her lessons emphasise the value of lear...
People First, Always: Daniel Winterfeldt on Leading with Purpose at Jefferies and Beyond
Daniel Winterfeldt, General Counsel for EMEA and Asia at Jefferies, shares his powerful journey from Wall Street to London and from capital markets partner to in-house legal leader and diversity champion.
In this candid conversation, Daniel opens up about his early experiences as an openly gay lawyer navigating the stark culture shock of moving from New York to London in the early 2000s — a time when being out in the legal profession was far from the norm. This culture gap eventually led him to found the Interlaw Diversity Forum, a not-for-profit organisation driving inclusion, equity, and culture ch...
Trust Your Instincts: Amos Carrington on Finding Fulfilment at Low Carbon
Lessons I Learned in Law with Amos Carrington, General Counsel & Company Secretary at Low Carbon
 Amos Carrington, General Counsel at Low Carbon, talks to Scott Brown about making the leap from private practice to leading a mission-driven renewable energy legal team.
 In this episode, Scott catches up with Amos Carrington, General Counsel at Low Carbon, a fast-growing renewable energy company. Amos shares practical, candid lessons about trusting your instincts, prioritising workplace culture, and seeing feedback as a gift.
He reflects openly on his transition from Herbert Smith Freehills—including his pivotal seco...
From Specialist to Strategic Leader: Mike Sosso on Curiosity, Courage, and Career Growth at BP
Mike Sosso, EVP for Legal at BP, joins Scott Brown to discuss his transition from specialist competition lawyer to strategic global leader of a 400-strong legal team.
In this episode, Scott welcomes Mike Sosso, Executive Vice President for Legal (Group GC) at BP, overseeing a global legal team of over 400 professionals. Mike shares candid insights into his journey from an antitrust specialist to one of the most senior legal roles at BP, highlighting how curiosity, allyship, and commercial thinking shaped his leadership style.
Mike’s three powerful lessons focus on embracing curiosity over certainty, becoming ge...
"From Working Bee to Strategic Leader: How Katja Roth Pellanda Rose to Lead a Global Legal Team of 500+"
In the final episode of Season 6, Scott Brown is joined by Katja Roth Pellanda, Group General Counsel at Zurich Insurance. Katja shares her journey from a corporate law associate to managing a global legal function of 500+ lawyers.
Her story is a masterclass in career growth, highlighting how being visible, strategic, and vocal can elevate your career.
Key Lessons from Katja:
Visibility Matters:Early in her career, Katja focused solely on delivering exceptional legal work, believing it would be enough for recognition. However, she realised that visibility and...
Lawyer to Fintech Founder: Aki Hussain on Small Lessons, Big Impact, and Betting on Yourself
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, we welcome Aki Hussein, a seasoned legal professional turned founder / entrepreneur. As Chief Legal Officer and Co-Founder of TerraPay, Aki shares his unique journey from Big Law to the bustling streets of Nairobi and eventually to founding an international payments company.
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His career exemplifies the intersection of law and entrepreneurship, showcasing how legal expertise can drive impactful innovation.
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We delve into how lawyers can harness their training to succeed beyond traditional roles, with actionable insights for legal professionals considering a shift in th...
Leading from the Centre: Lessons from a GC for Corporate functions at Swiss Re
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown is joined by Nick Raymond, General Counsel for Corporate and Group Functions at Swiss Re, one of the world’s largest reinsurers. Nick shares his unique career journey from private practice at Clifford Chance to leading a global team at Swiss Re, spanning legal functions like M&A, ESG, asset management, and more.
Nick’s reflections on embracing opportunities, lifelong learning, and prioritising team dynamics offer valuable insights for lawyers navigating career growth and leadership challenges.
Listen in as Nick discusses:
Th...Building Trust in Tech: Lessons from Trustpilot’s Chief Trust Officer, Anoop Joshi
In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown is joined by Anoop Joshi, Chief Trust Officer at Trustpilot. Anoop's unique career journey from private practice to leading trust, transparency, and legal operations for one of the world’s leading review platforms offers insights for any lawyer looking to break new ground. With a background that blends law, tech, and business, Anoop shares the key lessons that have shaped his approach to legal practice, leadership, and career growth.
Listen in as Anoop discusses:
Why project management is a powerful skill for any in...Transforming a Legal Team: Sandrine Auffret on Leading at Europe's most valuable Company, ASML
This week on Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown sat down with Sandrine Auffret, Executive Vice President, Chief Legal Counsel, and Company Secretary at ASML. Sandrine invited Scott to ASML’s podcast studio on their impressive Eindhoven campus—a city with a rich legacy in tech and innovation.
Sandrine’s journey from healthcare law to tech is packed with insights. She’s been leading ASML’s legal team as it grew from 37 to over 100, all while adapting to one of the most rapidly evolving industries in the world. They dive into what it takes to lead legal in s...
How to continually develop your career and skill set with Kelly Young
In this episode of 'Lessons I Learned in Law', Scott Brown interviews Kelly Young, General Counsel and Executive Director at Marie Curie, one of the UK's biggest charities.Â
Kelly shares her journey from private practice to in-house counsel, emphasising the importance of authenticity, curiosity, and understanding risk and governance in the legal profession. She discusses her role in building teams and navigating challenges in getting to that position, while also providing practical advice on personal development and setting oneself up for success in a demanding career.
If you're considering a transition from private practice to i...
Why finding what "lights you up" is the secret to a successful career
On this week’s show, Scott Brown is joined by David Lancelot, Chief Legal Officer and EVP for Advocacy at LawVu.Â
With over 20 years of experience building and optimising international in-house legal teams, David is a real leader in legal innovation. In this episode, they explore his career journey—from traditional legal roles to his work at LawVu, a company transforming legal operations through technology.
David shares insights on the evolving landscape of in-house legal functions, highlighting the need for modernisation and a shift in mindset. They discuss how legal teams are moving from risk manag...
High speed delivery of Legal Services with the Chantelle Zemba, Group GC at Deliveroo
On this week's show, I am joined by Chantelle Zemba, Group General Counsel at Deliveroo.
Chantelle falls into the category of someone who was a relectant in-house lawyer. She was seconded to Deliveroo to help out with some fundraising and corporate matters whilst she worked at Norton Rose Fulbright. At that time she was a self confessed deal junkie Corporate Lawyer!
She joined them full time in the Corporate team shortly after and admits she has never looked back...nor had the time to do so!!Â
The amount she has covered in her 10 y...
Mastering Crisis Management and Career Progression in Law with Kate Southwell
In this episode, Scott interviews Kate Southwell, the General Counsel for Corporate and Commercial at Anglo American PLC.Â
Kate relocated to the UK for this huge role with Anglo after 12 years in Switzerland. She shares how she intentionally pursued an international and non-linear career path and we explore some of the benefits of diverse experiences in the legal profession.
As covered in the press, Anglo was subject to an unsolicited takeover bid by a competitor, BHP, in 2024. It was great to speak about this and hear about the role legal plays in such an event...
