Saved by the City

This is a paperwork podcast!

We love ourselves a good paperwork movie — that moment when the journalist's eyes get big as they zero in on the final piece of evidence that breaks the whole story wide open. Doesn't get much better than that.

The movies might glamorize it a bit, but we both went into journalism believing that the work matters, that accountability is an effective mechanism for making people and organizations better. That's why the recent turmoil at Christianity Today, where we both began our journalism careers, has hit so hard. 

Recently, the...

AI is haunting us.

Did you see the one with James Talarico writing on a Bible? Or how about the one with the Taliban-like characters roaming the streets of Georgia? This year's midterms have seen an explosion of AI political ads and, to be honest, they're giving us the heebie-jeebies. The midterms are spooky enough without the added horror of, you know, questioning reality.

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy opine on the AI ads, do a rundown of religion in the midterms with RNS politics reporter Jack Jenkins, and turn our attention to a...

Sure, AI can solve math problems ... but can it fix awkward coffee hour conversations?

It's probably no surprise that a lot of pastors are using AI to "do research" for their sermons these days. According to a recent Barna Group survey, half of pastors said they use AI for brainstorming and idea generation. Around one-third said they're using it for graphic design (37%), researching biblical or theological topics (36%), generating discussion questions or small group material (34%) and for administrative tasks (34%).

But then there's also the pastor who made a digital clone of himself to help with pastoral...

Deconstructing a Reconstructionist childhood...

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy consider what it would take to quit — like really quit — the religions of our childhood. Not just the faith, but the community. And, as two eldest daughters with an outsize sense of responsibility, we find the prospect daunting to say the least. That's what makes the women of the Deconstruction Doulas network so compelling — leaving a high-control religious environment takes serious bravery and gumption.

We talk with Margaret Bronson, a co-founder of Deconstruction Doulas, about a more holistic approach to deconstruction and why these former real-l...

Theocrats and technocrats and autocrats, oh my!

The AI apocalypse is nigh and while Katelyn and Roxy are making their end of the world plans, a set of rather strange bedfellows is insisting the real solution to our woes is ... a king?

Have we read this story somewhere before? (cough, the Bible, cough.)

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Bradley B. Onishi about the powerful contingent of Christian Reconstructionists, reactionary Catholics and Silicon Valley magnates who are on a mission to replace American democracy with an authoritarian ruler. After all, who...

Man buns, dabbing, ombre hair and the #girlboss … all things from 2016 that are now deceased.

If a decade ago the girl boss was rising and grinding and leaning in, now she’s on her farm co-op in a prairie dress, warning her Instagram followers about pesticides and Big Pharma. There’s this feeling today that female hustle is kind of embarrassing — very “pick-me” energy — just trying too hard, which is the opposite of cool.

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy offer a postmortem on a trend that we were very much part of. We leaned in, we showed...

Are you a total woman?

We've been waiting literal years for Kristin Kobes Du Mez's new book "Live Laugh Love." And here it is! Just in time for a new season of Saved By the City.

One thing that struck us about Kristin’s new book is how much it centers on consumer products marketed to Christian women. It’s less a history of ideas from the top down and more a history of ideas from the ground up, via the things that white Christian women buy and sell. And so many of those cultural arti...

Can you imagine a church without women? Us either.

For as long as anyone alive today has been going to church, they've found the pews populated with more women than men. It's long been a given in American society that women are more religious than men. They pray more often, they attend church more often, they read their Bibles more often. But in the past quarter century, that gap has steadily been shrinking among young adults. As more young men claimed a religious identity, fewer women did. And in 2025, according to Gallup, young men surpassed young women...

Is it a sin to be a billionaire? What about to own a house when so many are displaced? 

We're in a real "eat the rich" moment as tech billionaires flaunt their wealth on red carpets and flex their power behind presidents — all the while the wealth gap keeps growing and the AI boom threatens the livelihoods of millions. Revolutions have been fought over less. But is hating the rich biblical? Scripture certainly has a lot to say about greed — the love of money being the root of all evil and stuff like that — and the injustices it perp...

Were Weddings Always This...Extra?
In our parents' generation, most weddings took place in a house of worship, followed by a cake and punch reception in the basement or a local VFW hall, and everyone was decked out in polyester. No one was going for a "viral moment," and videographers and photo booths weren't a thing. But something shifted in Roxy's and Katelyn's lifetimes: today, many couples feel every detail of their wedding needs to reflect their unique personalities, and the wedding industry has exploded, to the tune of $1 trillion globally in 2025. No wonder wedding planning feels by...

The evangelicals were right about yoga (kind of).

Meditation, detox cleanses, sound baths, plant-based medicine ... these things were not invented by Gwyneth Paltrow. They did not appear in Brooklyn out of thin air. Many (even most?) of our favorite wellness practices have deep roots in religious traditions. What are we missing when we strip the religion from the ritual? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the well-trod path from deconstruction to wellness and why so many exvangelicals are drawn to these more physical disciplines that often originate in eastern or Indigenous traditions. But what is the...

The Brains Behind the Trump Era

Vice President J. D. Vance recently criticized Pope Leo online over his criticism of the war in Iran. It was a bold move for a Catholic convert, but perhaps not surprising, given the larger ideological commitments that have shaped Vance and his milieu. In a new book, Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right, scholar Laura K. Field tracks the intellectual leaders - scholars, policy wonks, think tankers - who have fueled Trump's political ascendancy. Ranging from Catholic commentator Sohrab Ohmari to former Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban to...

Don't worry, ChatGPT told us to just trust the robots...
In a shockingly short period of time, AI has gone from tech novelty to a part of our everyday lives. More industries are incorporating AI into daily workflow so that employees have more time for creative work - at least in theory. Roxy's and Katelyn's respective professions (journalism and book publishing) are still figuring out the ethical boundaries around AI. Meanwhile, we've all seen the dark side of these tools: deep fakes, chatbots encouraging users to harm themselves, and platforms overrun with AI slop. Do these tools portend...

A special crossover from our friends at Complexified for you this week!

Tim Schrader Rodriguez spent eight years trying to "pray out the gay". He modulated his voice. He stopped listening to music with female lead singers. He sat weekly with a therapist who watched him come apart — and said nothing.

Last week, the Supreme Court ruled 8–1 that therapists have a First Amendment right to pursue conversion therapy with their patients, upending a Colorado ban on the practice.

This isn't history, nor is it a Colorado-only case. Bans that advocates spent years winning in s...

What if Jesus really meant what he said? Like, including all that love your enemy stuff.

The better question maybe is what would happen if Jesus's followers believed he really meant what he said — and acted on it? It could change society and, according to Bart Ehrman, it already has. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Ehrman — a New Testament scholar, agnostic atheist and somewhat unlikely defender of Jesus' most radical teachings — about how Jesus' command to care for people on the periphery shaped the moral "common sense" of the Western world. From public hospitals to dis...

Bro, do you even know your facial thirds?

In an era of overexposure, perhaps looksmaxxing was inevitable. Clavicular, the face of this buzzy new internet phenomenon, tells us an uncomfortable truth we probably already knew: physical attractiveness gets you places. And, in true manosphere fashion, he is taking that to its transgressive extreme — steroid use, appetite suppressants, bone smashing, jaw surgeries, an incalculable amount of supplements and an obsessive fixation on achieving the perfect body ratios. But to what end? 

On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine the looksmaxxers' zealous pursuit of phy...

The Noah's Ark story should come with a content warning.

The Beginner's Bible. The Precious Moments Bible. The Jesus Storybook Bible. Children's Bibles remain an incredibly popular way for parents to teach their kids the faith. Roxy and Katelyn both remember the Bible stories that left a deep impression on them (a female spy! Fake arm hair!). But some of those stories can be confusing or downright scary. And when taught within a legalistic framework, they can turn faith into an obedience training program rather than a relationship with a gracious parent.

That's why our...

Every generation gets its revival story.

In 1971, Time Magazine ran "The Jesus Revolution." In 1998, the New York Times wondered if evangelicals were "on the threshold of a huge spiritual revival." And in 2025, headlines screamed that Gen Z was flocking back to church, that young men were leading a religious resurgence, that Charlie Kirk's death had sparked mass conversions.

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy ask: Is any of it actually true?

Spoiler alert: not really.

We're joined by Ryan Burge, political scientist and religion data aficionado, who brings receipts. Turns out...

Roxy & Katelyn are coming in hot with a deep dive into how the MAGA movement may be losing women.

The Justice Department's seemingly reticent release of the Epstein files has led some prominent figures such as Marjorie Taylor Greene to disavow her ties to President Donald Trump, as many women's cries for justice for survivors grow louder. The MAHA ("Make America Healthy Again") base, led by influencers like Alex Clark, feel betrayed by the administration for letting more toxins such as Roundup to be produced on American soil.

And Trump's women supporters find themselves part...

A Saved By The City Crossover Event!

We're back! ALMOST.

We recently joined another RNS podcast to look at how Christian womanhood has changed—and not in the ways we could have expected. In this episode of Complexified, host Amanda Henderson talks with us about the shift from 1990s purity culture to today’s trad wives, MAGA moms, and warnings against “toxic empathy.”

The three of us unpack how pandemic burnout, influencer culture, and widening political gender gaps reshaped the ideal Christian woman — and why empathy itself has become a flashpoint.

Learn...

A Special Episode from The State of Belief!

We’re sharing a special episode from The State of Belief — a wide-ranging conversation with Religion News Service reporters Jack Jenkins and Adelle M. Banks on the faith angles you don’t hear in the standard year-end news wrap. From immigration and church-state battles to DEI backlash, workplace shocks, and the shock of an American pope, they trace what 2025 revealed about power, justice, and public trust — and what questions we should be asking as 2026 approaches.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can we talk about the beard hair in the sink?

Getting engaged is exciting! But saying goodbye to singleness is not so straightforward — especially when you've spent years defending and celebrating the single life. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy admit letting go of being single felt more complicated than they expected. Sure, you have someone else to eat with ... but you also have to figure out who is getting groceries. You gain a life partner ... but you lose a lot of alone time. Did we make an idol out of singleness? Maybe. But also our joy in...

There's even an ICE Nativity.

Baby Jesus in zip ties. Mary and Joseph in gas masks. Roman centurions wearing ICE vests. This December, nativity scenes are getting political. Lake Street Church in Evanston, Illinois sparked national attention with their ICE-themed nativity. Sean Hannity called it "woke" and a "war on Christmas." The Daily Show covered it. But it's just one example of clergy around the country participating in immigration activism — getting arrested outside detention centers, accompanying people to immigration hearings, taking food and the Eucharist to migrants too afraid to leave their homes. 

On this epi...

They’re stylish, savvy, with podcasts, book deals, and massive Instagram followings. And they’re calling women back to the kitchen.

A new wave of conservative Christian women, many balancing high-powered platforms and hard-charging careers with old-fashioned family values, are gaining influence by promoting traditional gender roles, homemaking aesthetics, and “biblical womanhood.” But beneath the sourdough and matching family outfits is a politically resonant ideology that’s shaping national conversations around gender, faith, and power. On this LIVE Saved By the City episode, recorded in Austin at the Texas Tribune Festival, Katelyn and Roxy host a lively panel to l...

Exploring the mystical, the skeptical, and the spiritually surprising with Ross Douthat.

What’s your woo level? In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy run through their most mystical instincts—angels, ghosts, manifesting, energies, astrology—and ask whether modern Christians have grown a little too allergic to spiritual experience. Then New York Times columnist and UFO enthusiast Ross Douthat joins to talk about the persistence of the supernatural, why he thinks religion is still the most rational bet, and the dangers of patchwork spirituality. A funny, curious, and unexpectedly grounding conversation about what might be lurking just beyond the em...

Let's call it 'passion fatigue'...

In the days of the early 'aughts, as Millennials began embarking into the workplace, companies noticed these young employees wanted a mission — wanted to feel connected to the work they were doing, even inspired by it. No longer was a paycheck enough, these bright-eyed twentysomethings wanted purpose. And in Christian circles, this generational trend was sanctified and spiritualized. Careers became callings. Jobs became vocations. And all of it could and should be done for the glory of God and for the common good. Extra bonus points if your deepest passions met the wo...

Is it the holy spirit or is it a ponytail facelift?

What does it even mean anymore to age with grace in the era of deep plane facelifts and eyelid surgeries and celebrity procedures that have women looking 40 years younger? On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy wrestle with tensions and fears about aging ... about why our faces just do not look like our faces in the mirror anymore. And we ask: Is "having some work done" becoming inevitable? Instagram and TikTok are full of posts on the dramatic changes these procedures can create — and th...

Beware the charismatic pastor?

America has long had a love affair with celebrity — be that of the Hollywood variety or the political ilk. From superstar athletes to celebrity chefs, their woo is not wasted on us. And the history of American Christianity was shaped by men (and a few women) who possessed that irresistible gravitational pull. They held evangelistic revivals, founded denominations and even new religions, and inspired movements. They also sometimes amassed huge amounts of personal wealth, had scandalous affairs and led their followers to commit deadly acts. Charisma has been a powerful tool in the Am...

The one where our BoOoOos take over ...

We're at the height of spooky season, and what could be spookier than two dudes talking theology? Just kidding, Roxy and Katelyn love the two men who are taking over SBTC this week!John Schmidt, Roxy's husband, returns to talk preaching, Fleabag, and lady editors with Jack Brownfield, who is also an Episcopal priest as well as Katelyn's fiancé. John and Jack discuss their respective callings to pastoral ministry, expectations others may have for priests' wives,  and some relationship tips John and Roxy have learned in their first year-plus of ma...

When you're on fire for Jesus — and each other.

It's a tale as old as time: young and zealous evangelical co-eds meet in college, fall head over heels, dream of a life in ministry together ... and also of having sex, something they can't do until they get married. So they do — they tie the knot, in front of friends and family and maybe over the concerns of their parents. God called them together, after all! What could go wrong? 

As it turns out, plenty. Such was the case for our guest today, Jen Hatmaker, who marri...

Are you there God? It's me, Mushrooms ...

Katelyn and Roxy are what researchers would call "psychedelically naïve." As in, we've never gone on a hallucinogenic trip before. But we're not necessarily psychedelically negative -- we're fascinated by how many people are using psychedelics for spiritual purposes. So when a new study released this summer from Johns Hopkins and NYU on the effects of psilocybin — as in magic mushrooms — on clergy, we knew we had to do an episode on it.

We're guided through this episode by RNS reporter Kathryn Post, who has been talking with t...

Who is really winning here?

In the wake of Charlie Kirk's very gruesome and very public assassination on September 10, the debate over his legacy has played out in real time and online. The responses to his death revealing just how fractured we've become. Some called him a martyr, modern-day St. Paul. Others pointed to his history of racist and xenophobic rhetoric and wondered why Christians were valorizing someone who had said such hurtful things. Workers were fired for their social media posts. Jimmy Kimmel was suspended. Pastors faced backlash no matter what they said — or didn't say — from...

If every generation of parents has their anxieties, the post-evangelical Millennial parent is perhaps most angsty about how to raise their kids as Christians — without all the baggage. Many parents our age — especially those who grew up evangelical — were raised in a time when Christian parenting books were ubiquitous and none more so than James Dobson's. Dobson, who died this summer, was the founder of Focus on the Family and the impact of his teachings on parenting — from discipline, to parental authority, to obedience, gender and sexuality — is hard to understate. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy examine Dobson's legacy and...

Doug Wilson’s name is suddenly everywhere (and his voice too). The 72-year-old pastor from Moscow, Idaho has become the go-to theologian for Christian nationalism, offering what has been framed as a more moderate, more intellectually rigorous case for a Christian nation. One where women can't vote, immigration is strictly limited to maintain a Christian majority and only Christians (of a certain kind) can hold political office.

From his base in Moscow, Wilson has built a denomination, a network of schools, and a multimedia empire. His church has doubled in size since the pandemic and his denomination ha...

What the holy heck is happening at Hillsong?

The last six weeks have seen a seesaw of scandalous revelations between Hillsong U.S. and Hillsong Australia. The resignation of global senior pastor Brian Houston after revelations of sexual indiscretion. The discovery of allegations of rape by a junior staffer against a former pastor. The departure of several prominent U.S. pastors and Hillsong affiliated churches. A not-so-flattering documentary. And then the leaked report of the Hillsong NYC investigation, which painted a picture of a church leadership rife with abuse, sexual misconduct and secrecy.

This week...

When the clock keeps ticking, you gotta get picking ... a sperm donor, that is.

Ok, but really, as more and more women are single into their late thirties and early forties, the option to have a child through in vitro fertilization becomes a very live question. As much as forty may be the new twenty, the biological timeline for many women still looms large. If you're someone who wants to bear children, waiting for the right partner may feel like a dead end. Or, as our guest today puts it, that's a lot of pressure for a...

Let's get a drink sometime!

New York's a drinking town. Happy hours. Boozy brunches. Martinis and oysters. The city's social life revolves around artisan cocktails and bubbly toasts and late night dive bars. And while the pandemic may have put a screeching halt to the social side of that life, it didn't stop the flow of booze. Restaurants offered craft cocktails to go, the sidewalks became open carry and delivery drinks were an app away. Drinking went from social to solo and it was during that time that both Katelyn and Roxy began to wonder if all...

From Jesus Freak to freaked out.

In this episode, we grapple with "the e-word" and why we struggle to claim the evangelical label. Having grown up fully immersed in that culture and going on to dedicate much of our careers to the movement, we examine our disillusionment and disappointment with its trajectory — and where we go next.

The past five years revealed fractures and hypocrisies that betrayed so much of what we — and a generation of millennial Christians — grew up being taught. Now we wonder: Is evangelicalism worth saving?

Plus: We go on an adv...

This episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by the GOAT, the legend who arguably started the spiritual podcasting genre, the longtime host of On Being, Krista Tippett. This wide-ranging conversation lingers on some of the more salient questions of our time: What is the role of faith in a technological era? Does religion only divide? How can spiritual practices make a difference in a world that needs action?

GUEST:

Founded in 2007 as a "learning community that mobilizes Christians to advance the common good," Q was part of a broader movement of Christian cultural engagement in the mid-aughts and early teens. Much of it influenced by the late Tim Keller.

Today, Q — now THINQ Media — feels emblematic of the broader tensions within evangelicalism around how Christians should navigate what they see as an increasingly hostile culture. The "winsome" approach is increasingly seen as naive, cultural engagement has given way to culture war rhetoric, and terms like "negative world" have entered the evangelical vocabulary. On this episode of the...