Saved by the City

You don't want to be THAT tourist.

We all need a vacation and many of us are seeking more than rest or fun on our next getaway. Pilgrimages, retreats, wellness centers — an industry has grown up around the desire to to find transcendence — or at least a bit of mindfulness — while escaping real life. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the cringe factors inherent in spiritual tourism — selfies in temples anyone? — and the true rewards that sacred travel can offer. We are joined by travel writer and spiritual seeker, Pico Iyer, who has turned his curiosity about the...

It's 2025, and the vibes feel a bit...off.

It's been nearly five years since the murder of George Floyd and the national and global protests it sparked. Since then, we've seen local efforts to stop public schools from teaching about racism in America; withdrawal of federal funding for DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) programs; and a broad attitude shift against various progressive causes. How do white Americans, especially white women, stay engaged in the work of racial justice when the headlines have moved on and when 'woke' is considered weak? This week, Katelyn and Roxy speak with...

Pope Francis was a man of the people. Will the next pope be?

After 12 years as the head of the Catholic church — and the most famous Christian in the world — Pope Francis died on Monday (April 21) at 88. A charismatic reformer, the first Latin American pope and the first Jesuit pope, Francis was beloved well beyond the Catholic church. As world leaders, Catholic faithful and cardinals from around the globe travel to the Vatican this week to mourn Francis, talk of his successor has also begun. The Conclave — made all the more intriguing to many by the...

Good Friday and Easter are basically the pinnacle of the Christian calendar. What it all centers on. But in recent years we’ve seen a lot of angst over what Jesus’ death on the cross and his resurrection really mean — and if what people grew up believing about them might be all wrong. We're talking, of course, about PSA — or penal substitutionary atonement theory. For some, this explanation of what happened on the cross has become more obstacle than on-ramp to Christianity. And has left many wondering — why did Jesus have to die, really? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dust...

Chappell Roan says all her friends with kids are in hell. A popular subreddit asks "does anyone else just… not like kids?" A crowd of the usual suspects — pro-natalists, theo bros and mom influencers — pounce on these examples to decry our increasingly "anti-kid" and "childless cat lady" culture. Is this just a recycled generational debate — feminists vs homemakers but this time on TikTok — or is there something new going on here? Are some women (and men too, though maybe to less pearl clutching) just saying the quiet part out loud? That parenthood is really hard and changes your life, not always...

Did you know there are piles of guidebooks meant to help women excel at being the church's first lady? From how to step out of a car when pulling up to church on Sunday, to preparing the perfect casserole, to keeping the kids smiling and still in the front pew. And those dirty dishes in the sink? They could be the talk of the lady's luncheon if you're not careful. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into the pile of expectations put on pastor's wives — and the idea that his ministry must be her ministry.

What’s the woo-iest thing you believe in? Angels and demons? Ghosts? Astrology? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dabble in the metaphysical and get curious about the mystical. We also wonder if maybe we’ve gotten a little too skeptical of the spiritual? Enter our guest today: New York Times columnist, UFO enthusiast and religion apologist, Ross Douthat. We discuss the allure of the supernatural, the dangers of syncretism and why religion is the rational choice.

Katelyn and Roxy both moved to New York City with a dream of starting fresh and the promise of a new life with new adventures, new friends and new romance. And, to be honest, New York delivered on pretty much all of that. It's a great city! But it's not the only city — and moving here cost us too. Money, yes, but also stability and roots and proximity to long-time friends. We've both moved from city to city over the years, and we've gained gifts in each but we've also come to realize that age-old truth: wherever you go, th...

Were you more of a truth person or a dare person? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy revisit some of the Capital T-truths of their youth group days and dare to say "maybe I don't believe that anymore." From hell to dinosaurs to midnight demons, we go there. And we're joined by Erin Hicks Moon, who isn’t afraid to ask the big, thorny questions about modern faith. Questions like: What if this whole Christian thing is just a man-made system used to control people? Why does it feel like so many Christians have lost their ding-dang minds? And, wh...

It's toxic. It's sinful. It's compassion corrupted. It's ruining the world and is definitely at the root of all the bad things. What is this fresh evil? Empathy, of course! Or so says a growing faction of Christians with very loud voices. On this first episode of a brand new season, Katelyn and Roxy try to trace this argument back to its roots and figure out how a trait that seems so virtuous — so Christian — became the bogeyman for a new movement of conservative evangelicals.

Plus: a sickness story swap and the punishing timeline nobody asked for.

Core memory: flipping the Bible open to a random page, pointing with eyes closed to a verse, and "claiming" that verse as God's answer to the particular problem of that day. Whew. Where did we get that idea? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into those formative experiences with the Bible, many of them shaped by an evangelical approach to Bible reading and interpretation. We reflect on why Bible reading has become so complicated (even triggering?) as adults. What would it take to approach the Bible afresh — or, at least, with curiosity? We are joined by author and th...

Gather 'round with your marshmallows and cups of cheer, it's that time of year to send good tidings and spiced takes. No, that's not a typo, though maybe you can have your cake and eat it too with this year's roasts and toasts. Did you embrace the barrel leg and the ballet flat? Are you pro-pigmy hippo or did you mute baby Moo Deng? And what about the end of Bennifer (again)? Katelyn and Roxy are joined by their first ever co-host, the extra zingy Tiffany Bluhm, as we up vote and down vote our way through the most...

The days are getting short. The nights are getting long. Christ has come but he'll also come again. We're in the now and the not yet. We're waiting, preparing, standing guard. Y'all it's Advent. And this year, we are living that limbo life. Katelyn and Roxy explore the lessons of Advent for those in between seasons and how to live with intentionality when you're not sure what's next. Stephanie Duncan Smith joins the show to share some of her reflections on life through the lens of the liturgical calendar.

Plus: Is there an enneagram type for every...

Picture this: a knock on the apartment door, in sweeps Jonathan Woodward, straight off a flight from Maine, grocery bags in hand. A few hours later, the apartment is heavy with the rich smells of simmering onions, sizzling beef and a stewing redwine sauce. A few more hours later, a few more knocks on the door and a party of four are seated at a table laden with food, wine and .... mics. It's our Thanksgiving special and we invite you to come, enjoy a meal with Katelyn, Roxy and special guests John Schmidt (Roxy's boo) and Jonathan (SBTC beloved...

Were you surprised by this year's presidential election results? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy examine some of the major stories — religion and otherwise — to come out of exit polls. Hello rightward drifting young men. We are joined by award-winning journalist and political observer, Tim Alberta, who offers us both retrospective and prospective, forensics and forecast. We ask what to expect in a second Trump administration — and where might evangelicals fit in.

GUEST:

And yet, there are so many of us who have gone through a divorce and found love again. This week, Roxy talks about the many jagged edges of divorce and the long healing process. Katelyn asks: How can you be a good friend supporting someone facing a divorce? And we are joined by Melissa Moore who shares her own story of divorce recovery and how being divorced has affected her remarriage — for better and worse.

GUEST:

Life is no straight and narrow path and we've taken a few ill-advised turns. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy reflect on our smallest and biggest whoopsie daisies. Well, not all of them. We have a few categories to guide us. For example: what’s your “I shouldn’t have said that regret," and “biggest regret from 1998-2002” and “a memorable fashion regret.” But also, it won’t be that bad, because of course, everyone has regrets. Even Katelyn's 5-year-old nephew — who you will hear from and who has some sage wisdom for what to do when you make a boo boo. And tha...

What's spookier than a coffee hour full of strangers? Katelyn is on the road toward the midwest and a new city means a new church. But how to find the perfect match? It's no easy task and Roxy is here to help — with a super clarifying set of potential church scenarios. Red light: flee and don't look back. Yellow light: take a beat. Green light: go forth in peace. But, for real, what is it people look for when they look for a church? What makes a church good? We are joined this week by veteran religion reporter Adelle M...

If you've "deconstructed" from evangelicalism — or any faith tradition — you know that as your faith has evolved your practices have shifted too. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore what it means to find ways to engage with God, with church and with spiritual practices that feel honest and life giving in this, ahem, season (you can take the girl out of evangelicalism but ...). We are joined by musician — and friend! — Jayne Sugg, whose new album "Belief Is Hard" is a beautiful exploration of her own "faith renaissance."

GUEST:

In this era of political extremes, few of us have gone untouched by polarization. We've had family fights, friendship rifts and, for some, church splits. When did politics become so central, so essential? Is this what idolatry looks like? In these last remaining weeks before America's presidential election, Katelyn and Roxy talk with former Republican darling (turned GOP pariah), Nancy French, about the personal cost of putting politics first. Nancy shares her own story of being disowned by many of her friends after she denounced Trump — and how her faith has sustained her on what's been a lonely journey.

It's our first live episode, coming to you from Religion News Service's 90th anniversary symposium and gala (90 years!) in the heart of Manhattan. Our live audience has cocktails, so grab a drink and settle in as we test our audience's NYC knowledge, reflect on the past and future of Saved By the City, and quiz our guests to discover just how deep their religion nerdery goes. It's Saved By the City — live from New York!

GUESTS:

The American Church's relationship with sex has always been a little complicated, but it got a lot more complicated with the explosive popularity of Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker's Every Man's Battle, which trained a generation of Christian men to see themselves as dormant predators and women as their natural enemies. Now, Sheila Wray Gregoire joins Tyler to put Every Man's Battle to the test, and weigh the book's findings against what we actually know about women, sex and purity culture.

We've long admired the kind of radical, intentional community that requires its members to make real commitments and sacrifices — and that holds out a vision of Christian ethics built on Jesus' sermon on the mount. Maybe we've even idealized it. In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy hear from journalist Eliza Griswold about the fate of just such a community and what happened when America's wider societal fractures found them.

Plus, we go on an eras tour through our various Christian phases.

GUEST:

You know that feeling when you have just SO. MUCH. TO. SAY about a particular current event but your podcast is on summer break?? Yeah, it's the worst. Silver lining? We've been saving up that snark for months.

So, here goes, why did JD Vance's comments about how childless cat ladies are ruining America hurt our feelings? You could probably guess but wouldn't it be more fun to listen to the episode?

Plus, some summer reminiscing. And Katelyn and Roxy ask the church: how are you elevating and including the childless (cat ladies or otherwise)? 

In the '00s, America was introduced to J.D. Vance, who pitched himself as a middle man between coastal elites and the rural white Americans he'd been raised around. Hillbilly Elegy was part memoir/part explainer and, at the time, seemed to establish Vance as a moderate conservative who wanted to bridge the partisa cultural, political and religious divide.

In this episode, Tyler and journalist/critic Sam Thielman explore Hillbilly Elegy and chart Vance's strange, subsequent journey to becoming Donald Trump's running mate. 

This week we’re wrapping up the special SBTC summer series, “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life,” and Katelyn’s going out with a bang by asking the Beaty Brain Trust about the joys and challenges of parenthood.

SBTC diehards will likely remember Roxy and Katelyn’s great conversation with Annie Parsons last fall. Annie shared her journey of becoming a single mother by choice. At the time, Roxy and Katelyn agreed they wouldn’t likely go down the path as single people.

We reserve the right to change our minds (and marital status!).

Meeting a man. Moving apartments. Literally just moving.

Maybe it’s a product of living in NYC, but it seems like you can’t walk outside your door these days without dropping mad cash.

It has recently occurred to Katelyn that, whatever big life decisions she makes, they will assuredly require some financial investment. Experts say by age 40, you should have an emergency fund, be debt-free, and have a retirement nest egg. Gulp.

That’s why episode 3 of the SBTC summer series, “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life,” is about the thing we’r...

Behold…the power of man-ifesting.

She’s been on the apps. She’s been to church events. She even went to a speed dating mixer with Roxy back in the day. So maybe it’s time Katelyn mix up her straight in her search for romance. Manifesting—the belief that our thoughts determine our futures—grows out of the positive thinking movement and has a distinctly American bent. Is it all hooey, or is there something to it?

In episode 2 of our SBTC summer series, Katelyn asks the Beaty Brain Trust for tips and tricks on finding r...

Remember when people used to throw “over the hill” parties when folks turned 40? Katelyn doesn’t feel over the hill, but she’s also aging out of the young adult church group, if you know what we mean.

A milestone birthday is a great time to reflect on the life you’ve built and the person you’re becoming and want to become. That’s what this SBTC special summer series is all about. We’re calling it: “Tell Katelyn What to Do with Her Life.”

Katelyn has gathered the Beaty Brain Trust to help her find answers in...

In the late '80s, a historical romance pro named Francine Rivers became a Christian, and decided to combine her creative interests with her newfound faith. The result is Redeeming Love, a runaway hit that repackaged a few verses from the Book of Hosea into a historical romance complete with trauma, betrayal, sex and more trauma. Tyler is joined by novelist Liz Riggs (who is, full disclosure, also his wife) to break down bodice-ripping, slut-shaming epic. 

After you have spent most of your adult life single, as we have, you recognize the importance of building a network of friends who are more than just brunch buddies. You need those friends who send you soup when you're sick and offer their couch for days on end after a breakup and are more than happy to sit in the hospital waiting room while you recover from anesthesia.

When you're married, these are the expected role of the spouse, but that's not the reality for many of us today. And maybe it was always too much...

Why is it a tough time to be a pastor? Let's count the ways: a pandemic, a racial justice uprising, an insurrection, hyper partisanship in the pews, cataclysmic global wars. This is not to mention all the normal pulpit pressures, like blurry boundaries, pastoral care, complaining stakeholders, etc, etc. etc. Being a pastor is hard y'all! That's why Katelyn and Roxy wanted to talk with seasoned New York pastor, Rich Villodas, who has been pastoring an incredibly diverse church in Queens for 16 years. We wanted to hear what unique pressures pastors face and how congregants can offer true support.<...

Of course there's one for women, too.

In this episode, Katelyn joins Tyler to discuss Captivating, John and Stasi Eldredge's attempt to do Wild at Heart for girls. We dig into the flipside of the evangelical gender binary of the early '00s to explore what the Christian Macho Man playbook meant for all the damsels they were supposed to be rescuing. Also: quite a bit more Lord of the Rings content than we expected! 

APOCRYFUN returns, now as a monthly series as part of the expanding Saved By the City Auditory Multiverse! On each episode...

A dozen religion journalists walk into a karaoke bar...

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy bring you all the hot takes from the world of Religion News Association. And believe you me, there are some real spicy stories to tell. We've got Julie Roys, from the Roys Report, talking investigative reporting on scandalous religion. Kate Shellnutt, of Christianity Today, with a daring provocation. And Sarah Riccardi-Swartz, professor of religion at Northeastern University, delivering the receipts on Eastern Orthodoxy in the manosphere.

A synod on synodality? Sign us up!

For the past three years, the global Catholic Church has been undergoing a period of discernment. One of the main issues of contention? Women's ordination.

Given our interest in women's leadership in Protestant churches, we've been very curious how that conversation happens on the Catholic side. And now that we seem to have some clarity on where the Church will land on the issue, at least in the near term, we wanted to have RNS's Vatican reporter, Claire Giangravé, give us the inside scoop.

Plus, some p...

Limits. Schlimits.

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy have a lot to discuss. Like how a certain subset of evangelical Christians decided purity culture was for the birds and swapped it for "real American beauty" (aka: big boobs, apparently?). Or how the KJV is the best complement to the American Constitution (ironic, no?). 

But, really, we're here to talk limits — and why we're embracing them — with friend and author, Micha Boyett. 

GUEST:

Micha Boyett is an author, youth pastor, podcaster and Down syndrome advocate. She is the author of the new book "...

Do you think you’d like the person your parents picked for you?

Parents being a part of the dating or courting or marriage process is a pretty old idea that has a history in most cultures. But we’ve dropped it almost completely in the U.S. in favor of finding true love ourselves. In fact, our families — and our churches and our communities and our friends — mostly avoid meddling in our dating lives at all. When did dating get so anonymous? And what have we lost along the way? Those are the questions Katelyn and Roxy tack...

This episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by the GOAT, the legend who arguably started the spiritual podcasting genre, the longtime host of On Being, Krista Tippett. This wide-ranging conversation lingers on some of the more salient questions of our time: What is the role of faith in a technological era? Does religion only divide? How can spiritual practices make a difference in a world that needs action?

GUEST:

Another year. Another election heckscape.

Would you talk politics on a first date? Nope. No, definitely not. What about on a 10th? Heck no. In this economy? Americans are not happy with the political landscape at the moment and the general mood going into the 2024 election is, to put it mildly, dread. We're exhausted and this presidential race is a rinse and repeat cycle that it seems no one really wants. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy wade into the shark infested waters of partisan politics — and, we ask, did we go wrong somewhere? Author Michael Wear jo...

Maybe the real soulmates are the friends we met along the way.

As marriage has become the end-all, be-all relationship, friendships have been relegated to the "nice to have" category. But at a time when loneliness is being labeled an epidemic, we wonder if this paradigm hasn't stranded us all on islands of our own making. Katelyn and Roxy look at the significant role friendships have played in our lives — especially as single adult women — and ask how we can continue to cultivate intentional community. We are joined by Laura Tremaine (whose husband is definitely not her best...