The Two Cities

In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Kutter Callaway, the William K. Brehm Chair of Worship, Theology, and the Arts and Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Seminary. He is also the author of Be Afraid: What Horror Reveals About Facing the Darkness (IVP Academic). During our conversation, we discuss what horror fiction in film and TV reveals about our fears and how we can find God within the horror genre. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne.

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CW: Abuse, Spiritual Abuse, Grooming, Self-Harm

In this episode, we're joined by special guest Aimee Byrd to help us debrief the three-part docu-series on Netflix, Death of the Pastor's Wife. Aimee is the author of several books, including Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, The Hope in our Scars, The Sexual Reformation, Saving Face, and a few others. Over the course of our conversation, we discussed the grim details of this docu-series and processed together what we can learn from this tragic story as the church. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include...

In this episode we're joined by Dr. Patrick Schreiner, who is Professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology, Gene and Jo Downing Endowed Chair of Biblical Studies, and Director of the Residency Ph.D. Program at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, MO. And he's the author of the book we're discussing in this episode, The Four Senses of Scripture: Learning from Ancient Ways of Reading the Bible (Baker Academic). Over the course of our chat we discuss what the four senses are, what the literal sense compares to the spiritual senses, and what is deficient about the ways...

In this episode, we're joined by Ian Simkins, who is Pastor at Bridge Church outside Nashville, TN, and he's the author of the book we're discussing in this episode, Every Table an Altar: Reclaiming Connection in a World of Division, Distraction, and Loneliness (Zondervan). We talk about what makes meals so significant, what the value is of using the table as a means of community building, and why our kingdom imaginations need to be oriented towards table fellowship after the model of Jesus. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Josh Carroll, Dr. John...

In this episode, we're talking about Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey. We talk about our expectations going into it, what we thought about the small and major changes that Nolan made to Homer's epic, and how we regard the major interpretative moves that were made relative to the representation of the gods and the Trojan horse. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: the Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, and Dr. Brandon Hurlbert. 

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In this episode, we're joined by Professor Paul Anderson, who is Professor of Biblical and Quaker Studies at George Fox University, and he's the Editor of Archeology, Jesus, and the Gospel of John: What Recent Discoveries Show Us (Eerdmans). Over the course of our conversation, we discuss the essay contributions to Professor Anderson's new book and situate those in conversation with recent discussions on the Gospel of John. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Rev. Dr. Chris Porter.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Nicholas Schaser, who is Assistant Professor of Religious Studies at Macalester College in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and the author of A Ransom for Israel: Jesus and Jewish Salvation in Matthew (published by SBL Press). In our conversation, we talk about christology and soteriology in Matthew, and how Dr. Schaser understands Matthew to be showcasing how Jesus secured salvation for ethnic Israel through the cross. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Dr. Logan Williams.

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In this episode, we're joined by Adam La Salle, the author of Perfect Vision: How Seeing Through God's Eyes Gives Us Sight. Adam is someone who has had a lifetime of reflecting on physical sight, forgiveness, the true essence of beauty, seeing through other people's eyes, and perseverance, all of which he discusses with us in this episode. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Stephanie Kate Judd.

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In this episode, we're joined by Professor Christopher Stanley, who is Professor Emeritus of Theology at St Bonaventure University in New York, and he’s the author of a number of books, including the historical fiction trilogy called “A Slave’s Story” that we’re discussing in this episode, with the volumes A Rooster for Asclepios, A Bull for Pluto, and A Ram for Mars. In our conversation, we overview Professor Stanley's historical fiction trilogy, the value of historical fiction as a medium of academic historical investigation, and how much work Professor Stanley put into making this series grounded in scholarshi...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Mathew Kim and his wife, Sarah Kim. Dr. Kim is Professor of Preaching and Leadership at Truett Theological Seminary of Baylor University, and the author of Becoming a Friendlier Church: A Pathway to Genuine Community (published by Baker Academic). In our conversation, we talk about how churches can become more inviting (and not just more extroverted) in order to build better and more authentic community. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian and Dr. Grace Sangalang Ng. 

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Alexiana Fry, who is guest researcher at the University of Copenhagen and the author of Esther Keeps the Score: Trauma, Body, and Politics in the Hebrew Bible (SCM Press). Our conversation explores what a trauma-informed reading of Esther would look like, highlighting how much more complexity there is to a biblical narrative that is already quite a complicated story (despite how simply it gets retold so often). Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne, Dr. Brandon Hurlbert, and Rev. Dr. Madison Pierce.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Karen Swallow Prior, the 2025–2026 Karlson Scholar at Bethel Seminary in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and the author of several books, including You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful (Brazos). Over the course of our conversation, we talk about the difference between passion and calling, and how pursuing the transcendentals of the true, good, and the beautiful is the best framework for reconceiving what our callings actually are. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne, Stanley Ng, Rev. Daniel Parham, and Dr. Sy...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Mario Baghos, who is Senior Lecturer in Theology at the University of Notre Dame Australia. He's the owner of the YouTube channel, TERRA SYMBOLICA, and the author of a recent peer-reviewed essay on Orphic legends and Descent into Hades themes in the hit TV show, Twin Peaks. In our conversation, Dr. Baghos brilliantly and breathlessly surveys the full swath of Twin Peaks and the way it coheres with so many iterations of the Descent into Hades motif. It's a fascinating conversation full of nerdy Twin Peaks insights on religious and mythological imagery germane...

In this episode we're joined by Revd Dr Mike Bird, who is Deputy Principal and academic lecturer in theology at Ridley College, Melbourne. He's also the author of numerous books, including the book we're discussing here, the 10th anniversary edition of What Christians Ought to Believe: An Introduction to Christian Doctrine through the Apostle's Creed (published by Zondervan Academic). In our conversation we discuss the enduring value of the Apostle's Creed, and dive into some of its key features as well as some of its missing details. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Zach Wagner, who recently completed his DPhil at the University of Oxford, to talk about his new book, Men of Virtue: How the Fruit of the Spirit Forms Male Character in the Modern World (published by Brazos). In our conversation we talk about how the Fruit of the Spirit relates to virtues, whether the virtues are gendered, and what the Fruit of the Spirit looks like uniquely with respect to male embodiment. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: the Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, and Dr...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Elisabeth Lefebvre (associate professor of Education at Bethel University in Saint Paul, MN) and Dr. Kristin VanEyk (assistant professor of English Education at Hope College in Holland, MI). Together, they are the editors of the new book, Purpose & Joy: Pursuing a Meaningful Career in Christian Higher Education (published by Abilene Christian University Press). In our conversation, we talked about what the essays in their volumes address related to the state of Christian Higher Education, navigating academia over the course of a career, and some helpful tips and tricks for educators of all sorts...

In this episode, we're joined by Haejin and Makoto Fujimura. Together they're the authors of Beauty & Justice: Creating a Life of Abundance and Courage (published by Brazos). Haejin Shim Fujimura is a lawyer, entrepreneur, speaker, and strategist whose work bridges justice, beauty, and cultural transformation. She is the founding attorney of Shim & Associates, a law firm rooted in cultural renewal, and the CEO and cofounder of Embers International, a global NGO working to end intergenerational exploitation and prevent human trafficking. Makoto Fujimura is an internationally renowned artist, writer, and arts advocate. His books include Art + Faith, Silence and Beauty, Refractions, a...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. T. Christopher Hoklotubbe, who is associate professor of indigenous theological studies at Bexley Seabury Seminary in Chicago and NAIITS: An Indigenous Learning Community, and Dr. H. Daniel Zacharias, who is associate dean and professor of New Testament studies at Acadia Divinity College, and an adjunct faculty for NAIITS: An Indigenous Learning Community. Together, they're the authors of Reading the Bible on Turtle Island: An Invitation to North American Indigenous Interpretation (published by IVP Academic). In our conversation, we talk about interpreting the Bible from a North American Indigenous perspective, the distinctive hermeneutical...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Bo Lim, who is professor of Old Testament at Seattle Pacific University in Seattle, Washington, and the author of Contextual Theological Interpretation: An Integrated Model for Reading the Bible (published by Baker Academic). In the course of our conversation we talk about the value and importance of contextualizing our interpretations of scripture to our theological and cultural backgrounds, and we also discuss the relationship between contextual interpretation and historical critical exegesis. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Dr. Brandon Hurlbert.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Elizabeth Backfish (PhD, Trinity International University), who is associate professor of biblical studies at William Jessup University, and Dr. Cynthia Shafer-Elliott (PhD, University of Sheffield), who is associate professor of Hebrew Bible / Old Testament at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. And together they're the authors of Grounded Theology in the Hebrew Bible: Exploring the Cultural Context That Formed Ancient Israel (Baker Academic). In our conversation we discuss the relationship between our biblical texts and material culture on a whole host of issues, highlighting how the two need to be understood together for proper...

In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Jennifer Matheny, who is associate professor of Christian Scriptures at George W. Truett Seminary, Baylor University, in Waco, Texas, and the author of Hesed, the Seed of the Biblical Story: New Life for Old Testament Theology (published by Baker Academic). As we discuss, the term Hesed is notoriously difficult to translate, but by situating its variegated meanings within the stories and the Story of scripture, Dr. Matheny helps to shed new light on its significance. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Dr. Brandon Hur...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Andrew Remington Rillera, who is assistant professor of biblical studies and theology at The King's University in Edmonton, Alberta, in Canada, and the author of Lamb of the Free: Recovering the Varied Sacrificial Understandings of Jesus's Death (Cascade). Over the course of our conversation, we discuss what the sacrificial death of Jesus means in the NT, how it relates to sacrifices in the Torah, and why Dr. Rillera finds Penal Substitutionary Atonement to be unbiblical and theologically problematic. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr...

In this episode, we’re joined by Professor Andrew Root, who is Professor and Carrie Olson Baalson Chair of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary in Saint Paul, MN. He’s the author of several books, including: Baal and the gods of More: Rescuing Church Growth from Idolatry (published by Baker Academic). In our conversation, we discuss how capitalism has co-opted church growth discussions and turned it into a fertility idol. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. Josh Carroll, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, and Dr. Grace Sangalang Ng.

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In this episode, we're joined by Prof. Cor Bennema, Professor of New Testament at London School of Theology and the author of Imitation in Early Christianity: Mimesis and Religious-Ethical Formation (published by Eerdmans). Prof. Bennema talks about the distinctives of mimesis relative to other kinds of ethical formation/development, and where early Christianity is situated relative to mimesis in Greco-Roman philosophy. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Rev. Dr. Chris Porter, and Dr. Sydney Tooth.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Max Botner, associate professor of New Testament at Jessup University, host of the On the Way podcast, and the author of How Then Shall We Read?A Student's Guide to Interpreting the New Testament (published by Eerdmans). Over the course of our conversation, we talk about how Dr. Botner's book compares to other primers on interpretation and how his book emphasizes the locationality of the interpreter, and the overall aim of faithful interpretation rather than "correct" interpretation. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. Josh Carroll and Dr. John...

In this episode, we indulge in a little April Fool's fun by discussing the best worst movies we've ever seen, and why we absolutely love to watch them ironically and in some cases even unironically. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne, Dr. Brandon Hurlbert, and Rev. Dr. Chris Porter.

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In this episode we're joined by Professor, James F. McGrath, who is Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, and the author of the book that we're discussing in this episode, Beyond Deconstruction: Building a More Expansive Faith (published by Eerdmans). In our conversation, Prof. McGrath says about his own journey of deconstruction and how he wanted to write this book to leave behind "bread crumbs" to help people navigate faith on the other side towards a faith that is more expansive. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr...

In this episode, we're joined by Prof. Kelly M. Kapic (PhD, King's College, University of London), who is Professor of Theological Studies at Covenant College, and the author of several books, including the book that we're discussing in this episode, Christian Life (as part of the New Studies in Dogmatics series published by Zondervan Academic). Over the course of our conversation, we discuss Kelly Kapic's aims to ground his theology of the Christian life in the Triune God, insisting that a theology of Christian life is necessarily theological. We also address how the particulars of Christian life pertain to universals...

In this episode we're joined by Dr. Preston Sprinkle, who hosts the Theology in the Raw podcast and is the author of From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says About Women in Leadership (published by David Cook). In our conversation we talk about what caused Dr. Sprinkle to change his mind on this topic, and we discuss several key issues and passages related to the topic of women in ministry in the Bible. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, and Dr. Grace...

In this episode we're joined by Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Dr. Jeannine Brown, New Testament professors at Bethel Seminary in Saint Paul, Minnesota, to talk about their new book, The Greatest Story Ever Retold: Jesus Narratives From Gospels to Film (with Baker Academic). As we discuss, Drs. Dunne and Brown share how Jesus films provide an external vantage point for thinking about the hermeneutical process of envisioning narratives while we read, making us like the directors of Jesus films inside our heads each time we read. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. Brandon Hurlbert...

In this episode, we're joined by Prof. Andrew Crislip, who is Blake Chair in the History of Christianity at Virginia Commonwealth University, and the author of Emotion in Early Christianity (published by Eerdmans). In our conversation, Prof. Crislip talks with us about what emotions really are, what early Christians thought about five key emotions, and how that thinking evolved within the first five centuries of the church. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: the Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian and Dr. John Anthony Dunne.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Ryan Collman, who is Associate Supervisor at Westcott House, Cambridge, and tutor in New Testament at the University of London, as well as the author of The Apostle to the Foreskin: Circumcision in the Letters of Paul (De Gruyter), which won the Lautenschlaeger Award in 2023. In our conversation, we talk about circumcision in the letters of Paul with reference to ancient practices and perspectives, as well as modern pseudoscientific views about the contemporary practice in America. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Rev. Dr...

In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Ruben Bühner, who is a postdoctoral researcher for New Testament Studies at the University of Zurich and the University of Bonn, and the author of Negotiating Jewishness: Paul’s Ethnicity Between Continuity and Discontinuity (Baylor University Press). Over the course of our conversation, we talk about key passages in the interpretation of Paul that relate to matters of continuity and discontinuity with respect to Paul's Jewish identity and observance of the Torah. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne.

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In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Ian Mills, who is Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics and Religious Studies at Hamilton College and the author of The Hypothesis of the Gospels: Narrative Traditions in Hellenistic Reading Culture (Fortress Press). Over the course of our conversation, we talk about how ancient readers understood the variation in Gospel production as writing on a common hypothesis (or the "gist") about Jesus. Dr. Mills explains to us what the ancient conception of a hypothesis is, and we talk about the various implications that this has for thinking about the relationship of the canonical four...

In this episode, we're joined by Pastor Stephanie Williams O'Brien to talk about the realities of what's happening in Minnesota with the immigration enforcement agency known as I.C.E., and how Christians should respond to the situation. Pastor Steph is Lead Pastor of Mill City Church in Northeast Minneapolis, the co-host with Jo Saxton of the Lead Stories podcast, and author of two books, Stay Curious (Fortress) and Make A Move (Broadleaf). Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: the Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, Dr. Brandon Hurlbert, and Dr. Grace Sangalang Ng.<...

In this episode, Dr. John Anthony Dunne and Dr. Kris Song of The Two Cities team introduce their new book for the pop culture and theology series published by Bloomsbury on the TV show, Twin Peaks. The volume is called Theology, Religion, and Twin Peaks (w/ Bloomsbury). In the episode, we're joined by five of the contributors to the volume, and we each talk about our respective essays. The guests on the episode include:

Trevor Babcock, who is an Assistant Professor of English at Williams Baptist University (Walnut Ridge, AR).

Dana Abu Dbay...

In this episode, we debrief Stranger Things Season 5 with Rev. Dr. Andy Byers, who is Tutor in New Testament at Ridley Hall of the University of Cambridge and the co-editor (with Adam J. Powell) of the volume, Religion, Theology, and Stranger Things: Studies from the Upside Down on Evil, Ethics, Horror, and Hope (published by Bloomsbury). Over the course of the conversation, we talk about our favorite parts of the final season and the finale itself, some of the things that we wished were different about the writing, and some of the key themes that the final season leaves with...

In this episode, we're joined again by Professor Hylen for part two of our conversation on gender. Prof. Hylen is Almar H. Shatford Professor of New Testament and the Director of the Women, Theology, and Ministry Program at Candler School of Theology of Emory University. She is the most recent volume, Gender Mobility: Seven Ideas about Gender in the New Testament Period (published by Oxford University Press). In this conversation, Prof. Hylen explains how interconnected class and status was with gender, which creates the dynamic of there being at least ten genders in the New Testament period, as she argues...

In this episode, we're joined by Professor Susan Hylen, who is Almar H. Shatford Professor of New Testament and the Director of the Women, Theology, and Ministry Program at Candler School of Theology of Emory University. She is the author of Women in the New Testament World (Oxford University Press) and Finding Phoebe: What New Testament Women Were Really Like (published by Eerdmans), which we discuss and overview in our conversation about the role of women in the NT period as Prof. Hylen highlights implications for several named women in the NT. This is part one of two of our...

In this episode, we talk about our favorite Christmas movies. We give some nods to Christmas classics as well as more than a few surprises. Listen and see if your favorites end up on each of our top five Christmas films lists! Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Rev. Dr. Nathaniel Adishian, Dr. John Anthony Dunne, Rev. Daniel Parham, Rev. Dr. Madison Pierce, Rev. Dr. Chris Porter, and Dr. Sydney Tooth.

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