Room to Grow - a Math Podcast
Room to Grow is the math podcast that brings you discussions on trending topics in math education in short segments. We’re not here to talk at people. We’re here to think and learn with others — because when it comes to mathematics there’s always room to grow!
Learning Mathematics Through Sense-Making
In this episode of Room to Grown, our hosts revisit some topics from past episodes to revisit conversations about what it means to learn mathematics, and what mathematics is important for students to understand in an age of pervasive technology and AI. They confirm their beliefs that learning should be grounded in curiosity, should connect to previous learning, and the tension that educators might feel when they are among coworkers who have a different belief about what teaching mathematics should look like.
Check out these resources to go deeper into these ideas
● Room to Grow...
Math Therapy with Vanessa Vakharia
In this episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie host Vanessa Vakharia, in person! Their conversation explores the concept of math trauma, which Vanessa defines as “a negative experience with math that sticks with you long after the experience is over.” We learn about how Vanessa overcame her own math trauma after failing grade 11 twice, and explore the ways in which teachers can ensure that students have positive, trauma-free learning experiences in math class.
Resources mentioned in this episode and ways to learn more:
Math Therapy book by Vanessa VakhariaThe Math Guru tutor...Decluttering Mathematics in Middle & High School with Ted Coe, Scott Adamson & April Strom
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis learn about a new publication: Decluttering Mathematics: 5 Fundamental Understandings That Unleash Meaningful Student Thinking Grades 6-12. Three of the book’s authors join us to share how that when secondary mathematics instruction is cluttered with disconnected procedures and a focus on computation without meaning, students are essential being handed a huge pile of tiny puzzle pieces without ever building or even seeing the picture on the puzzle box. Ted, Scott, and April call out the clutter and describe how educators can connect the disconnected and focus on what’s impo...
Back to School – Establishing Classroom Culture
In this back to school episode, Curtis and Joanie discuss key ideas for starting the new school year off right, to ensure effective teaching and learning for teachers and students. How do you spend the first day of school with your students? Do you get them working in groups right away like Curtis, learning about them as students and how they engage with math and each other? Or maybe you focus on learning their names and helping them learn each other’s names like Joanie, ensuring a community is built as early as possible.
Our host...
From Roots to Algebra: Why Early Math Mastery Changes Everything
What do kindergarten counting concepts have to do with high school algebra? More than most teachers realize. In this episode, Joanie and Curtis sit down with Erin Wahler-Cleveland, founder of Roots and Wings Math, to explore how deep understanding of early and elementary mathematics lays the groundwork for everything that comes later — and what teachers at every grade level can do to better support that understanding.
Erin opens with a thought-provoking coordinate-plane framework that distinguishes between easy/hard (subjective) and simple/complex (objective). The key insight? As we gain expertise, complex things start to feel simple — and that...
The Math That Matters
In this episode of Room to Grow, Ali Martinez, Chief Program Officer for Math at Student Achievement Partners (SAP), joins Joanie and Curtis for a conversation about the math that matters. In the current era, math teachers face too much content and too little time to feel or be effective in allowing students the chance to learn math deeply.
Aly shared information about SAP’s national initiative to identify essential mathematics content for high school, and to integrate data science competencies. The work builds on COVID-era prioritization efforts and aims to address curriculum overload through systems-level change in...
Data Science for Everyone!
In this episode, Curtis and Joanie sit down with Mahmoud Harding from Data Science 4 Everyone (www.ds4e.com) to explore the growing role of data science in K-12 education.
Mahmoud breaks down the key distinction between data science and data literacy — two terms that are often used interchangeably but carry very different meanings for educators and students alike.
The conversation dives into why data science matters for all educators right now, regardless of subject area or grade level, and why the time to act is today. And taking acti...
Still Standing: Practical Sustainability for Educators
Teaching math in 2026 is demanding in ways that are structural, cultural, and relentless — and yet the conversation about teacher sustainability rarely makes space for what math educators are actually carrying. In this episode, Curtis and Joanie get honest about burnout, purpose, and community in the math teaching profession.
Drawing on research from burnout science, teacher identity, and professional resilience, this conversation explores three ideas that don't get discussed enough: why burnout is a systemic signal rather than a personal failure, how math teachers can reconnect with a durable and honest sense of purpose when the hard days st...
I used to think… but now I think…
This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie reflect on topics about which they have changed their minds. Although their minds have changed about different things, in their conversation, they have captured bigger ideas about what goes into changing one’s mind, and have applied that to what goes into changing a teacher’s practice. Importantly, the recognize that change is a highly personal experience and is an inevitable part of continued growth.
As you listen to Joanie’s thoughts about how students develop conceptual understanding, and Curtis’ thoughts about AI in math education, you may wish to...
Instructional Nudges with Zandra de Araujo
This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie welcome Zandra de Araujo to the podcast. Zandra and her colleagues, Sam Otten and Amber Candella created math classroom “Instructional Nudges,” small tweaks to classroom practice that can make a significant impact on student engagement, learning, and sense making of mathematics.
The conversation reveals the origin of the Instructional Nudges project, some specific example nudges and how they work, and the coming soon Instructional Nudges aligned to the Mathematics Language Routines. Everyone will walk away with an idea or two to implement right away in the classroom!
Add...
From Anxious to Explorer: Rethinking Math Class for a Disengaged Generation
This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie discuss two publications they have engaged with regarding technology, adolescents, and learning. The Anxious Generation describes the impact of smart phones and other recent technologies on childhood development, providing an understanding of what is happening internally for students in our classrooms. The Disengaged Teen utilizes research data around modes of learning and how they play out in terms of classroom behaviors. Our hosts make connections between these texts and what these ideas mean for math educators and classroom practices.
Additional referenced content includes:
· Book: The An...
What We Learned in 2025
This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie reflect back on 2025 and all that they learned during the year. A significant number of 2025 episodes of Room to Grow were focused on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating the 10th anniversary of its publication. Curtis and Joanie highlighted how these practices have survived the test of time, and continue to reflect good teaching in mathematics. Additionally, our hosts preview what new topics they are hoping to learn and explore podcast episodes about in 2026.
Additional referenced content includes:
· NTCM’s Principles to Actions...
Centering Student Reasoning in Conceptual Understanding and Procedural Fluency
In this episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie reconsider the balance of conceptual understanding and procedural fluency in math instruction. Although this topic has been discussed before, our hosts acknowledge that there is great nuance and many considerations in considering these two ideas in the teaching and learning of mathematics.
Curtis and Joanie discuss how inquiry-based, discovery-style learning opportunities are more open ended, are student centered, and are less teacher directed. They support these types of lessons in math instruction while recognizing that there are times when an explicit approach where teachers are sharing important...
Developing Mathematical Reasoning with Pam Harris
This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie speak with Pam Harris. Pam is well known and loved for her website, podcast, books, and conference sessions all based on her core belief that “Math is FigureOutAble.” Today’s discussion centers on Pam’s newest publication, Developing Mathematical Reasoning: Avoiding the Traps of Algorithms.
Pam starts with three distortions about math that are common among teachers, students, and the population, and can impact how educators engage students with math in their classrooms. Next the conversation shifts to what is meant by algorithms, and how they differ from strategi...
Changing Classroom Practice
This episode of Room to Grow brings together our 2025 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from Principles to Actions, an NCTM publication. After discussing each of the eight practices in isolation over the last several months, this month tackles the ideas and challenges in actually making substantive change to classroom practice.
Our hosts share ideas for engaging with others in deeper professional learning, coaching, and peer observations, as well as ideas for individual teachers to work on making change in their classrooms. They acknowledge that change is complicated, and encourage listeners to engage in small, incremental steps t...
Supporting Productive Struggle in Learning Mathematics
This episode of Room to Grow wraps up Joanie and Curtis’ season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions. The final practice in the series is “Support productive struggle in learning mathematics.” This is defined as follows:
Effective teaching of mathematics consistently provides students, individually and collectively, with opportunities and supports to engage in productive struggle as they grapple with mathematical ideas and relationships.
Our hosts begin with discussing the connection to classroom culture, ensuring that students feel safe, emotionally and academically, in order to be willing to struggle. Additionally, the expec...
Build Procedural Fluency from Conceptual Understanding
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Build procedural fluency from conceptual understanding.” This is defined as follows:
Effective teaching of mathematics builds fluency with procedures on a foundation of conceptual understanding so that students, over time, become skillful in using procedures flexibly as they solve contextual and mathematical problems.
Using some discussion about multiplication, our hosts try to differentiate what is meant by conceptual understanding and by procedural...
Pose Purposeful Questions
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Pose Purposeful Questions.” This is defined as follows:
Effective teaching of mathematics uses purposeful questions to assess and advance students’ reasoning and sense making about important mathematical ideas and relationships.
In unpacking this definition, our hosts key in on the importance of planning for questions during instruction to ensure that they are purposeful. They discuss how purposeful questions can assess student think...
Establish Mathematics Goals to Focus Learning
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating its 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Establish Mathematics Goals to Focus Learning.” This is defined as follows:
Effective teaching of mathematics establishes clear goals for the mathematics that students are learning, situates goals within learning progressions, and uses the goals to guide instructional decisions.
In today’s conversation, our hosts unpack the key components of this principle. First, they discuss how learning goals, focused on important m...
Elicit and Use Evidence of Student Thinking
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Elicit and Use Evidence of Student Thinking.”
In Principles to Actions, NCTM describes this teaching practice in this way:
Effective teaching of mathematics uses evidence of student thinking to assess progress toward mathematical understanding and to adjust instruction continually in ways that support and extend learning.
This meaty description provides the fodder for today’s conversation. Our hosts consider what...
Using and Connecting Mathematical Representations
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Use and connect mathematical representations.” Our hosts describe the five representations outlined in Principles to Actions, which include visual, symbolic, verbal, contextual, and physical descriptions of mathematics, but emphasize that the representations are not meant to be a check list to be covered during instruction. Rather, the different representations provide a framework for explore important mathematical concepts through different lenses, allowing students to build and deepen...
Promoting Reasoning and Problem Solving with Tasks
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue the season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Implement Tasks that Promote Reasoning and Problem Solving.” Our hosts being by expounding on the difference between selecting a task and implementing it, and that selecting a good task does not guarantee good implementation. They bust the idea that the only way to engage students in reasoning and problem solving is with a rich task, by considering how educators can weave together procedural learning with conce...
Facilitating Meaningful Mathematics Discourse
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis begin a season 5 series on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating it’s 10th anniversary. This month’s practice is “Facilitating Meaningful Mathematics Discourse.” Our hosts first identify what they mean by discourse and why it is important: that students are able to communicate their mathematical thinking in ways that others can clearly understand for the purpose of furthering their own mathematics learning.
Next, Curtis and Joanie unpack how to get students talking in math class, a necessary condition for meaningful m...
What we’ve learned this year
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis reflect on their personal and professional experiences of 2024 and what they learned. Reflect – conferences, books, podcast guests. Thinking differently about teaching and learning math. Hope you’ll take the time to reflect and capture your own learning.
Curtis and Joanie reference these episodes of Room to Grow which aired in 2024:
· Teaching and Learning Math: Students’ Perspectives Part 1 (aired August 28, 2024) and Part 2 (aired September 17, 2024)
· Routines for Supporting Student Thinking with Grace Kelemanik and Amy Lucenta (aired October 16, 2023)
· Unl...
High School Mathematics Reimagined Revitalized and Relevant
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis speak with leaders of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM) about their recent publication, High School Mathematics Reimagined, Revitalized and Relevant. Latrenda Knighten, NCTM President and Kevin Dykema, NCTM Past-President share a great overview of how rethinking how and what we teach in high school math can be improved so that more students leave high school prepared. This preparation involves not only knowing more mathematics, but believing in their capability as math learners and in their preparation for whatever path they have chosen for themselves after graduating.
Asset-Based Teaching to Transform Math Class
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis speak with Mike Steele and Joleigh Honey, authors of the recently released book transform your math class using asset-based teaching for grades 6-12. The book and the conversation explore what is meant by “asset-based,” and why shifting to more asset-based approaches supports a broader range of learners.
Mike and Joleigh unpack ideas around asset-based language, including, the language of mathematics, the language students use to talk about math, and the language educators use to talk about students. They also explore classroom and instructional routines, many of whi...
Teaching and Learning Math: Students’ Perspectives - Part 2
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue their conversations with middle and high school students to gain their perspectives on learning math. Our hosts interviewed six students from grades 7-12 in three different sessions. Because all of these conversations were rich with great comments, this is the second of two episodes of Room to Grow devoted to these students’ perspectives; if you haven’t already listened to part 1, we encourage you to do so.
Part 2 focuses on these students’ perceptions on asking questions in class and managing when they don’t understand, as well as t...
Teaching and Learning Math: Students’ Perspectives - Part 1
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis have conversations with middle and high school students to gain their perspectives on learning math. They interviewed six students from grades 7-12 in three different sessions. Because all of these conversations were rich with great comments, the next two episodes of Room to Grow will be devoted to these students’ perspectives.
Part 1 focuses on what the students said their teachers do or don’t do in the classroom that supports their learning. We heard about the importance of being able to talk to others during class...
Part 2: Wisconsin Math Council’s CALL to Action
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis continue their conversation from the Wisconsin Math Council’s annual conference.
Wisconsin mathematics education leaders Mary Mooney and Lisa Hennessey share additional thoughts on the remaining pillars of their conference theme, A C.A.L.L. to Action, embracing the roles of Community, Advocacy, Leadership, and Learning. Additionally, we hear some questions from the session audience. If you haven’t already, be sure to go back and listen to the first episode, then enjoy this month’s conversation.
We encourage you to explore the resources below, r...
Part 1: Wisconsin Math Council’s CALL to Action
In this episode of Room to Grow, we join our hosts at the Wisconsin Math Council’s annual conference. Wisconsin mathematics education leaders Mary Mooney and Lisa Hennessey join Curtis and Joanie for a discussion focused on the conference theme, A C.A.L.L. to Action, embracing the roles of Community, Advocacy, Leadership, and Learning.
Due to the extended nature of this great conversation, this month’s episode features Community and Advocacy. Stay tuned for next month’s continuation of the conversation, focused on Leadership and Learning.
We encourage you to explore the resources below, r...
Making Sense of Mathematics
In this episode of Room to Grow, our hosts discuss ways to support student sense-making in teaching and learning mathematics. Building out on the ideas shared in Episode 3 of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie dive more deeply into what it means for students to “make sense of mathematics.”
They discuss what it looks and sounds like when students are making sense, as opposed to just repeating back learned ideas, and consider which classroom structures and teacher moves might best support students’ sense-making.
They acknowledge that sense-making is not more or less important than learning mathem...
Balancing Instructional Modalities
In this episode of Room to Grow, our hosts look for the balance between instruction that is teacher-driven, traditional lecture-style, and inquiry-based, discovery-style lessons. They recognize the value of both types of teaching, understanding that there is a time in learning for both exploration and for direct and explicit teaching.
The conversation offers explanation of what conditions may require different teaching strategies, based on the goals and content of the lesson as well as how students are responding to and progressing (or not) toward intended learning.
The common theme between these approaches is student sense-making, an...
A conversation with the National Teacher of the Year
In this episode of Room to Grow, our hosts share conversation with Rebecka Peterson, the 2023 National Teacher of the Year (NTOY). Rebecka is a high school math teacher at Union High School in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on leave for the 2023-24 school year to fulfill her NTOY responsibilities. She views the NTOY not as an award, but rather a job, that of spokesperson and ambassador for the teaching profession.
In this conversation, we learn about her teaching journey and the lessons she learned along the way that have shaped her focus in the classroom. She shares how she...
Uncovering Student Thinking
In this episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie consider ways to uncover how students are actually thinking about the mathematics they are learning. Using a real-life, recent incident between Curtis and his sixth grade son, our hosts consider the challenging fact that many students think that success in math class means figuring out what answer the teacher (or the computer program/app, or the back of the book) is looking for.
They posit that when educators are always focused on the mathematics of the moment – what is being learned in a single lesson, week, or uni...
Deep Mathematical Thinking Using Math Milestones Tasks
In this episode of Room to Grow, special guests Sandra Lightman and John Staley help Joanie and Curtis understand the Math Milestones. These one-page resources include 12-14 math tasks that provide a visualization of and engagement with the math standards of each grade. The Math Milestones tasks present grade level math, not as a list of standards or learning outcomes, but as a groups of math tasks, a language understood by teachers and students.
The Math Milestones project was supported by Student Achievement Partners with Sandra and John as critical members of the team. The resources, available f...
Impacting Teaching Practice with Routines for Reasoning
In this episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie continue their conversation with Grace Kelemanik and Amy Lucenta. In follow-up to our previous episode, this conversation shifts to a focus on teachers and how the Reason Routines help them to be more effective with more students.
We begin by talking about what makes teaching hard – including the fact that teachers make a million decisions every day in response to the students in the room and how they are engaging with the content; and that doesn’t even include the day-to-day challenges of interruptions, meetings, grading papers, and o...
Routines for Supporting Student Thinking
In this episode of Room to Grow, Grace Kelemanik and Amy Lucenta join Curtis and Joanie to talk about how routines can provide the “opportunity and support for each and every student develop mathematical thinking and reasoning.” Although routines are used by most educators for a variety of reasons, Grace and Amy focus on “Routines for Reasoning,” which are specifically designed and structured to surface the ways that students are thinking about the mathematics and to better understanding the reasoning of their classmates to reinforce the mathematics content and thinking goals.
In this extended episode, Amy and Grace div...
How Important is Teacher Content Knowledge?
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis host special guest Dr. Katey Arrington to discuss the importance of teacher content knowledge.
Dr. Arrington is the Associate Director of the UTeach Institute at the University of Texas at Austin. She is also serving in the Presidential line for NCSM: Leadership in Mathematics Education from 2022-2026. Previously, she led the K-12 system services work at the Charles A. Dana Center, served as a mathematics coordinator for a growing, diverse district in Texas, instructional coach, and taught in both K-12 and community college systems. Katey earned a P...
Learning Experiences Aligned to Post-Secondary Goals
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis talk about an important role of math education: preparing students for the life they want to pursue after high school. Whether it’s college, trade school, the military, or directly into the work force, a student’s goals and desires should drive their learning experiences throughout their PK-12 years, and the course offerings, counseling and advising, and school system overall should, ideally, prepare all students for the outcomes they desire.
They recognize early in the conversation that this isn’t just about high school, isn’t just about co...
We Don’t Just Teach Math, We Teach Students
In this episode of Room to Grow, Joanie and Curtis explore ideas around the emotional side of learning and how it impacts students in their academic growth. Because we and our students are humans - and humans have emotions - it is impossible to learn without a connection to our emotions, whether those emotions are positive or negative. As educators reflect over the summer and begin to plan for the upcoming school year, we hope you’ll consider the emotional side of your students’ experiences in math class.
Joanie and Curtis suggest planning for the emotional experiences alon...
