JUSTUS with Jack & Gonzo
Social justice means applying the law equally to all people. But in practice, that doesn’t always happen. We’re business and trial lawyers with over 60 years experience of practice. Together, we practice law, we seek social justice, and we reveal the conflict between the two. And in this podcast, we bring together guests from a variety of backgrounds to discuss the current issues surrounding social justice and the inequity between these issues and their relation to the legal system. Join with us, so that it’s not Just Us.
109. The struggle to free those who have been wrongly convicted

Statistics show that between two and five percent of those incarcerated were wrongly convicted and are actually innocent. Can you imagine?
How do the wrongly convicted win their freedom? It’s a long and arduous process that begins with a committed attorney and, often, those attorneys are assisted by the nationwide organization, the Innocence Project.
One of those committed attorneys is our guest Charlie Weiss, a long time civil law lawyer in St. Louis, who later in his career was drawn to this work. Often the wrongfully convicted have been in prison for 20 years or mo...
108. MAGA's perspective on Trump's first 100 days (Part 2)

We continue our conversation with MAGA faithful Chuck Cordit about why he thinks Donald Trump's first 100 days in office have been successful.
107. MAGA's perspective on Trump's first 100 days (Part 1)

Donald Trump has the lowest 100-day job approval rating of any president in the past 80 years, with public pushback on many of his policies and extensive economic discontent, including broad fears of a recession.
The concept of the "First 100 Days" refers to the early period of a U.S. president’s new term, typically seen as a symbolic window to set the tone, push key policies and demonstrate leadership. It represents a kind of political version of a first impression.
In the United States, no one talked that much about the importance of a president’s fi...
106. Where our incarceration system falls short

In 1974, Ohio’s prison population was 8,400 Ohioan. By 2011, the number grew to 51,000. Are we any safer as a result? Do all these inmates need to remain behind bars?
Are we just locking up people without adequate attention being paid to things like education, drug treatment, mental health treatment and cognitive therapy? Our guest, Gary Mohr, former Director of the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, wanted to know, and so he called on the late Edward Latessa, PhD, of the University of Cincinnati’s Department of Criminal Justice to find out.
Latessa spent three years visi...
105. Eliminating DEI negatively affects medical care where it's needed most

It’s not intuitively obvious, but discarding DEI can result in even fewer medical professionals serving already underserved communities in rural Ohio. The Trump administration is doing its level best to eliminate DEI on the premise it fosters unlawful discrimination, but as Abraham Graber, Ph.D, points out, DEI promotes diversity and equity so as to achieve better outcomes, and that includes better outcomes in terms of getting more medical students interested in practicing medicine in rural Ohio.
There's been a longstanding problem in rural Ohio suffering from inadequate healthcare. Some counties have just a handful of do...
104. An American success story, from Refugee to American citizen - Bhuwan Pyakurel

Bhuwan Pyakurel, a former refugee from Bhutan, resettled in the United States in 2009. He and his family moved to Ohio in 2014 and he became a U.S. citizen in 2015. They bought their first home in Reynoldsburg and immediately became involved in the community. Bhuwan and his wife, Dil, have been married for 14 years and they have two children, Aditi and Dev, both who attend Reynoldsburg Public Schools. Aditi loves reading and volunteers her time to raise funds to protect the environment. Dev loves sports and plays basketball and soccer, and enjoys skateboarding, karate, chess, and solving the Rubik’s Cu...
103. Trump’s attacks on law firms—part of a bigger plan

If the mob were doing what President Donald Trump is doing, we’d call it a shakedown. By way of several executive orders, he has accused some of the largest law firms in America of unlawful misconduct and, on his own, determined they violated the law and issued punishment. But if the firms capitulate to his demands, they won’t be punished.
Joining us in this discussion is our friend and fellow lawyer, Jim Meaney.
The targeted firms are guilty of simply representing causes Trump can’t stand and represent some of the largest businesses in Ame...
102. The challenges that come with poverty

Almost 200,000 Franklin County residents experience poverty every year. That’s enough to fill the Ohio State University football stadium twice. These residents face myriad challenges, among them: medical debt, lack of access to healthcare, adequate and affordable housing, and affordable childcare.
Danielle Sidner, CEO of Rise Together Innovation Institute, explains that RISE is on a mission to harness the collective power of people and systems to overcome structural racism in Franklin County that contribute to poverty. RISE was created by the Franklin County Board of Commissioners and business and community stakeholders and seeks to achieve equity for ev...
101. Governing by Executive Orders

President Trump has signed more executive orders in his first 10 days and in his first month in office than any recent president has in their first 100 days. Trump critics say the orders greatly exceed his constitutional authority.
Those orders range from tariffs on Mexico, China and Canada, to pauses on foreign aid and crackdowns on illegal immigration to bans on transgender people serving in the military and the use of federal funds for gender-affirming medical care for minors.
Court challenges to Trump’s policies started on Inauguration Day and have continued at a furious pace since...
100. The Role of Religion in Politics

Most Americans go to church expecting to hear about salvation, morality and scripture. They don't anticipate hardball political endorsements. But some churches thrive on delivering politics from the pulpit.
Sure, pastors are citizens, too. And so in other venues, such as op-eds, blogs, books, and other places of influence, a pastor may speak his mind. Even so, he must jealously guard that influence and always speak winsomely. As a gospel minister, he shouldn’t make politics more important than his pastoral duties.
The tax code prevents religious institutions from serving as political machines, a concept in...
99. Where the criminal justice system falls short

The judicial system moves at glacial speed, and it isn’t inclined to accept that it’s flawed. Its shortcomings are most glaring with criminal cases.
If a convicted person is able to come upon new evidence that wasn’t available during the trial, no matter how significant the evidence may be, the process of getting a new trial is slow and doubtful. There’s no guarantee a new trial will be granted.
The first step is for the trial court judge to just agree to a hearing on whether a new trial is warranted. And judg...
98. Kevin Boyce, a Politician with integrity

Two hours before Franklin County Commissioner Kevin Boyce was to be the keynote speaker at the Columbus VA annual MLK lunch, an organizer told Mr. Boyce he could not mention DEI topics or anything deemed "politically charged" due to President Donald Trump's executive orders limiting DEI in the federal government. Unwilling to compromise his values, Kevin withdrew from the event.
“It was an insult to demand that I restrict my comments to not include equity and inclusion, I can’t separate diversity from the memory of Dr. King,”
Kevin Boyce believes that the opposite of poverty...
97. The weath gap continues to expand

There’s an old English song, “It’s the rich what gets the pleasure. It's the poor what gets the pain.” The song holds true today. We talk with Bill LaFayette, the owner of Regionomics, about the expanding wealth gap in America.
In 1980, the income of one percent of Americans was 23 times that of the other 90%. In 2022, the income of the top one percent was 69 times the income of the bottom 90%. In 1965, CEO compensation at the 350 largest publicly traded firms was 21 times the typical worker's compensation. In 2023, CEO compensation was 290 times a typical worker’s compensation.
Some of...
96. We're entering an age of new robber barons

With billionaires like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos circling in President Trump’s orbit, we are witnessing a new age of extremely wealthy business owners seeking to expand their influence on the government. The robbers barons of the late 19th century—JP Morgan, Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie—had nothing on these fellows.
As we moved into the mid-20th century, the wealthy wanted to hide their wealth—as if they were like everyone else. When Fortune magazine first published its list of the wealthiest Americans in the 1970s, the people listed weren’t happy abou...
96. The truth about immigrants in America

Are immigrants a drain on society, or does America benefit from their presence? It’s a hot topic, with Republic politicians telling lies during the last election about Haitians in Springfield eating dogs and cats—and telling these stories solely for the purpose of political gain. What was really stunning is that those lies resonated with some number of people, and Haitians were threatened with violence.
We talk with Flannery Rokey-Jackson of Community Refugee & Immigration Services here in Columbus, Ohio, about two classes of immigrants. Because of the crisis in Haiti, the Haitians were granted temporary protection stat...
94. Let's talk about police shootings.

Do police officers get it right more often than not when it comes to shooting a suspected threat? Are police trained adequately in terms of simulated scenarios and stressful situations? Are small police departments able to access the same level of training as police departments in large metropolitan areas? Do people suspected of a crime, who fail to comply with police commands, bear responsibility for being shot?
We talk with retired police officer Bob Meader, who served as a commander at the Columbus Police Academy, about the challenges that come with police work.
As Bob...
93. What's up with the U.S. Supreme Court?

Guessing the outcomes of cases brought before the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) can be challenging, and, sometimes, the court's decisions leave you scratching your head. Jack and Gonzo discuss our current court’s propensity to rule in favor of popular conservative causes.
If the casinos in Vegas took bets on how SCOTUS were to decide a case, the odds makers probably wouldn't give long odds, because you pretty much know how the justices will rule by their political affiliation. Oh, sure, the justices are supposed to look at each case objectively, but we’re all...
92. The First Amendment and FIRE

Does the First Amendment give us the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater? No, and this is one of the very few restrictions on free speech in America. Jack and Gonzo discuss the importance of free speech with Nico Perrino, Executive Vice President of FIRE.
Founded in 1999 as the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, FIRE has worked to advance the cause of free speech and the values of the First Amendment at our nation’s colleges and universities. In 2022, FIRE changed its name to the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression to reflect its br...
91. Your client has autism and is charged with murder. What to do?

Lawyers know how difficult it can be to represent a client with developmental disabilities and how ill equipped our justice system is to protect them. Our guest, McCracken Poston, Jr., is a practicing criminal defense attorney and former member of the Georgia House of Representatives. He just published his new book “Zenith Man: death, love and redemption in a Georgia courtroom,” the true story behind a controversial and unusual murder case.
McCracken’s client, Alvin Ridley, who suffers from autism, was charged with murdering his wife in the late 1990s, only to be found innocent thanks to overlooked, peculiar...
90. Zip codes—the most important social determinant of health

Ever think about the social determinants of health? At the top of the list: zip codes. Neighborhoods can differ dramatically in terms of safety, education, housing, green space, grocery stores, etc. When you lack these things—a world where options are limited—stress sets in, and the sole focus is just getting through each day; there’s no planning for the future. It shouldn’t be a surprise that good things happen when inner-city single moms and their children are given assistance in relocating to affluent suburbs. Listen to the conversation we have with Amy Klaben, president of Families Flourish...
89. Losing Faith in the U.S. Supreme Court

The U.S. Supreme Court has been in the news lately and not because of its popularity. The court’s recent decisions reflect more ideology than neutral analysis and a disregard for the ramifications of those decisions. Certain decisions are not supported by the text of the Constitution, even though some of the justices regard themselves as “textualists.” Some justices display an arrogance that is disquieting. How did we get here? Let’s remember, the justices were confirmed by a senate that is largely dysfunctional because of its own partisanship. Listen to what Jack and Gonzo have to say.
88. Patriotic Millionaires push for political equality, higher wages for working Americans, and a more eqitable tax system

Patriotic Millionaires is a group of high-net-worth Americans who are committed to making all Americans, including themselves, better off by building a more prosperous, stable, and inclusive nation. The group focuses on promoting public policy solutions that encourage political equality, guarantee a sustaining wage for working Americans, and ensure that millionaires, billionaires, and corporations pay their fair share of taxes.
Listen to our conversation with Morris Pearl, former managing director of the investment firm BlackRock, who serves as the chair of Patriotic Millionaires.
87. Dr. Arthur James on Black infants and women and prejudice in the medical system

Dr. James, an OB/GYN and pediatrician, has spent his professional life trying to achieve equality in birth outcomes. Everyone should receive equal medical care, but that’snot the case in America. According to the Centers for Disease Control’s latest report on infant mortallity, babies born to Black women have teh hightest mortality rate. In addition, Black mothers report they aren’t treated as well as white women by medical professionals.
Dr. James explains that achieving equity will require at least three things: (1) respecting all individuals and populations the same, (2) recognizing and rectifying past historical injustices, and (3...
86. How the absence of humility hurts us all

Everyone regards humility as a virtue, but how many of us appreciate its importance or, more importantly, how the absence of humility impedes societal discourse and hurts personal relationships. When we allow overconfidence bias and the Dunning-Kruger effect to control us, we are far too quick to offer opinions, no matter how little we might know, and refuse to listen. It’s as if we’re spring-loaded to spouting an opinion and defending it, not matter how little we might know.
The result: we spend much time arguing about things that may not be true and trying to c...
85. A place for teens in crisis.

Where do teens in Central Ohio turn when they are scared and feel alone? A teen might have been booted from home after disclosing he’s gay. Sometimes parents are evicted and want a safe place for their daughter to stay. Anger, depression, mood disorders and myriad other problems drive teens to a dark place where they feel alone.
Huckleberry House provides safety for teens in crisis. No matter the issue, teens receive shelter, counseling, compassion and hope. Listen to our conversation with Sonya Thesing, executive director of Huckleberry House.
84. Providing public health care in one of Ohio's poorest counties

Imagine life in Vinton County, Ohio—13,000 people spread across 450 square miles, with little in the way of resources. No Kroger, Giant Eagle or other big box stores, only Family Dollar and Dollar General stores. No emergency medical center. Just one health center with a single dentist who’s booked six to nine months out, and one or two primary care physicians. No behavioral care physician, no obstetrician, no optometrist. Why not solve the problem with telemedicine? Because much of the county doesn’t have sufficient internet, and many people can’t afford a laptop. The residents earn just enough to not q...
83. The invisible shield of public health

There’s a little-known truth: public health saved your life today and you probably don't even know it. Public health makes our lives safer and helps us live longer, but its many successes largely go unrecognized. No small wonder it’s called “the invisibleshield” in a PBS documentary that aired last month. Former Director of the Ohio Department of Health, Amy Acton, M.D., discusses the important role Public Health plays in our lives. But underfunding and lack of public awareness are constant challenges. With Dr. Acton’s foresight, Ohio got through the Covid-19 pandemic, while politicians wanted to deny what...
82. Bill LaFayette on the minimum wage debate

Should the minimum wage pay enough so that workers can be self-sufficient? If not, why not? Large employers, like Walmart and Kroger, pay wages that exceed Ohio’s minimum wage but yet barely keep a person above the federal poverty level. Isn’t there a conflict between capitalism and society’s obligation to protect the most vulnerable workers? Listen to our conversation with Bill LaFayette, owner of local consulting firm, Regionomics.
81. Evangelicals use Christianity for political purposes

The terms “evangelical” and “Christian” have been co-opted by conservatives to push their political agenda. For this group, Christianity is less a means for spiritual enrichment and more a means to steer an ideology, as evidenced by the Seven Mountain Mandate, which urges Christians to take control of seven components of society. Instead of promoting social justice, respecting the dignity of every human being and seeing Christ in all people, the evangelicals use Christianity—and what they espouse as Christianity is far afield from the New Testament—in a coercive way to get what they want. Listen to our conversation...
80. What’s up with banning books?

Why is it we see a wave of people demanding that certain books to be banned? Are these folks voicing their own personal objections based on their own reading, or are they voicing a philosophical bent based on what they’re heard about books? And how is that parents who object to a certain book for their children want the book to be banned for all children? Since when do parents get to decide what’s best for someone else’s children?
Donna M. Zuiderweg, chief community engagement officer for the Columbus Metropolitan Library, explains the process librar...
79. The appeal of selling drugs

When your options are limited, selling drugs is the answer. Our guest, Buddy, grew up in a low income, high crime Cincinnati neighborhood, with four siblings and a single mom who earned a modest wage. Selling drugs was the answer to getting what he needed—clothes, cash, security. Buddy started out by counting cash for established dealers and by 16 was running his own enterprise.
And then at age 21, it came to an end. A competing drug seller told the police what was needed to send Buddy to prison for 30 years. After thinking about life for the first 20 ye...
78. Citizens not politicians in Ohio should be drawing election maps

Why is it that elected officials can’t draw fair legislative election maps? Despite state constitutional amendments for redistricting reform approved by Ohio voters in 2015 and 2018, Ohio remains heavily gerrymandered because politicians disregarded the mandate they were given. Former Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court Maureen O’Connor struck down as unconstitutional multiple proposed maps. Now as part of Citizens Not Politicians, O’Connor is leading the effort to place a constitutional amendment on this year’s ballot. If the amendment is approved, a commission of 15 citizens—not politicians or anyone politically connected—will be created to handle the matter of...
77. Juvenile detention centers—the last place where you want your child

In theory, juvenile detention centers are places where kids who have committed felonies are helped with their criminal tendencies and behavioral needs, but we’re hearing more about violence than anything else. These are high need kids. Many have suffered trauma—family members murdered, abuse, neglect. Plus, they’re kids; their brains aren’t fully developed. Adding to the problem, Ohio’s Department of Youth Services can’t fill all the openings it has for correctional officers, behavioral specialists and teachers. The system isn’t working. Listen to what award-winning journalist Laura Bischoff learned from her investigation.
76. Dr. Anthony Feinstein on the moral courage of investigative journalists

What makes journalists risk their lives in war zones or imprisonment by autocratic governments? Award-winning psychiatrist Anthony Feinstein offers his expert perspective on the moral courage investigative journalists exhibit and the post-traumatic stress they suffer. Listen to what Dr. Feinstein, author of Moral Courage: 19 Profiles of Investigative Journalists, has learned from treating journalists and studying their trauma.
75. Teaching men to be dads

You might think being a good dad is something that comes naturally, but you would be wrong. Fatherhood has to be learned, and too many men from low-income neighborhoods, where crime rates are high and stable marriages are few, never learn how to be dads. Many kids grow up without the stability of a caring family and good role models; all some kids learn is survival. David Fluellen tells us what his non-profit, Dads2B, does to teach men the kind of things they never learned, like getting involved in their partners’ prenatal care and listening to their partners’ need...
74. Issues 1 and 2 take center stage on the Ohio ballot this November 7.

The big issues on the ballot in Ohio this November 7 are Issues 1 and 2. Both will likely make the national news.
Jack and Gonzo discuss the proposed constitutional amendment protecting a woman’s right to have an abortion, and the citizen initiative proposing a statue to legalize recreational marijuana. Why are these issues on the ballot, and what are the pros and cons being advanced by special interest groups? Listen to the conversation
73. Forgiving the men who killed her son

Rachel Muha did what few of us could ever do: she forgave the two men who murdered her son, Brian, in 1999. After she was alerted by the police that Brian was missing, Rachel started to pray and decided that she had to muster up the strength to forgive the men who had abducted Brian. It wasn’t until days later that Brian’s body was recovered, and even after learning that Brian had been murdered, Rachel extended forgiveness to his killers.
Rachel explains that forgiveness is a refusal to harbor ill will, anger and bitterness. It is an a...
72. Trump losing in court won't be enough to save democracy?

Is columnist David Rothfopf right—Trump losing in court won't be enough to save democracy? There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of the future of democracy—gerrymandering, election finance, voter suppression, and politicians who will change the rules to achieve their goals. The recent campaign to amend Ohio’s constitution, Issue 1, is an example of politicians doing just that.
Maybe people don’t want to live in a democracy. They want what they want and don’t care how they get it. Manipulating the system to achieve a goal is an acceptable strategy—do anything necessary to...
71. A failed criminal justice system

What’s the purpose of our criminal justice system? Retribution or restoration? When we examine the system, we see racial disparities in sentencing and little effort to understand what caused an offender to engage in criminal activity. Being “tough on crime” is a popular slogan with politicians. Sentencing is conducted with little concern for the backstory of the offender. The system fails miserably when it comes to rehabilitation. Listen to our conversation with Sean Wilson, the Organizing Director of Dream.Org, who has 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system.
70. Challenging white supremacy and misogyny in the workplace (part 2)

We continue our conversation with activist Jon Melrod about his efforts in opposing racism, organizing rallies against the Vietnam War and activism in favor of unions.