The Mortgage AI Podcast
The Mortgage AI Podcast is a show for lenders, mortgage brokers, loan officers, and operators who want to leverage AI for growth instead of fearing it. Join Jason Frazier for episodes that dive into the tools, strategies, and honest conversations about AI implementation in the mortgage space. We cut through the hype and nonsense to focus on what's actually working today and what you need to know tomorrow.The Mortgage AI Podcast is presented by DIFRNT Coaching and is sponsored by MortgageCon
AI Agents vs Agentic AI... WTF Is The Difference?
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Frazier welcomes Michael McAlister as a co-host on the Mortgage AI Podcast and explains the transition from The MLO Project to focus on AI.Â
They discuss the difference between “AI agents” (a tool that automates specific tasks) and “agentic AI” (an approach where AI is embedded with autonomy across business functions). Miguel describes moving beyond prompt-based assistants to workflows where AI monitors stages, reviews files, drafts communications, and updates systems, which requires standardized inputs, documented rules, and oversight similar to managing employees.Â
He shares using scheduled routines that run early dail...
Jason Kindler: Stop Playing With AI and Start Building With It | MAP Ep. 2
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How Jason Kindler Uses AI to Create Real Leverage in Mortgage
In the first guest episode of the Mortgage AI Podcast, Frazier interviews mortgage broker owner and producing LO Jason Kindler of First Coast Mortgage Funding (400–500M annually) about what the mortgage industry misunderstands about AI and how to use it for real business leverage. Jason says most people still see AI as prompting for images, are distracted by shiny objects, or are afraid to dabble, and he emphasizes starting with a clear objective. He shares practical use cases: building value-first to...
Stop Paying $40 for a $1 Bill! | MAP Ep. 1
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Stop Paying $40 to Win $1: Avoid Rent-Seeking With AI in Mortgage
In the first episode of the Mortgage AI Podcast, Frazier introduces the transition from the MLO Project to the Mortgage AI Podcast and explains his goal of helping loan officers use AI to create real leverage, not just surface-level hype.Â
He shares a game-theory example from economist Martin Shubik’s 1971 “$1 bill auction,” where rational bidding escalates until people pay far more than the prize a dynamic described as rent-seeking: spending time, money, energy, and effort to chase a reward that ca...
Listen Up Buttercups! This Is The End....And The Beginning | Ep. 0
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Episode Zero: Transitioning Growth Notes From The MLO Project to The Mortgage AI Podcast
Frazier announces the final episode of The MLO Project and introduces “episode zero” of The Mortgage AI Podcast, explaining that Growth Notes is pivoting to focus on where the mortgage industry is going and how to create the most impact with AI. Past episodes will remain available, and episode one of the new show launches September 1. Michael will still appear and also run some episodes, sharing firsthand experience from AI projects he’s building, while Frazier drives produc...
Cheap & Easy Leads Are a Myth | Ep. 65
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Google Ads are not dead.
But the cheap-lead fantasy needs to be.
Michael and Frazier dig into the real state of Google Ads, search intent, and mortgage lead generation in today’s market. This episode picks up right after the “Be the Answer” conversation and looks at the other side of the same coin: paid search, consumer-direct funnels, and what actually makes a lead worth chasing.
Michael breaks down what has changed since the low-cost lead days, why cost per lead i...
Become The Answer or Become Irrelevant | Ep. 64
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The old internet rewarded people who knew how to get found.
The new one is going to reward the people who become the answer.
Frazier and Michael are back on the MLO Project, and they are coming in direct, tactical, and very clear on where mortgage content is headed next. The conversation centers on Frazier’s shift toward helping loan officers become the answer in their local markets, not just another name trying to rank, post, or compete with the biggest players online.
For years, loan officers pl...
Leverage and Not AI, Is The REAL Strategy For Brokers w/Chris Nielson | Ep. 63
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AI is moving fast.
Most mortgage teams are still trying to figure out what actually matters.
Frazier and Michael sit down with Chris Nielson at the High Table Mastermind in Myrtle Beach to talk about the real role of AI inside a broker business.
Not the hype.
Not the buzzwords.
The actual use cases that buy back time, simplify operations, and help LOs focus on revenue-producing work.
Chris breaks down how his team is using technology to create an unfair advantage...
Messy and Compliance Do Not Work Well Together w/Jim Bell | Ep. 62
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This one is for every broker owner who thinks compliance is something they can deal with later.
Frazier and Michael sit down with Jim Bell, the guy who helps brokers handle the stuff most people want to avoid:
👉 Licensing
👉 Compliance
👉 Call reports
👉 State exams
👉 Information security
And Jim makes one thing very clear.
Compliance does not have to be scary.
But ignoring it absolutely can be.
This episo...
The Real Cost of Tool Hopping & Half-Assing Your Platforms | Ep. 61
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This one is going to make a few LOs uncomfortable.
Frazier and Michael are calling out one of the quietest money leaks in the mortgage business:
👉 Buying tools you don’t fully use
👉 Switching platforms before building a process
👉 Confusing activity with progress
👉 Building “solutions” that don’t actually create revenue
Because here’s the truth:
A new CRM will not fix a lack of discipline.
A custom-built AI tool will not fix weak follow-up.
And spending your weekend vibe coding a...
Your Excuses Are Bull$hit and You Know It | Ep. 60
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This one pulls no punches.
Frazier and Michael go straight at two of the most common excuses in today’s market:
👉 “I’m not techie”
👉 “I have ADHD”
And they’re not buying either one.
In a market that’s evolving faster than ever, these aren’t just harmless statements—they’re self-imposed ceilings. If you’re using them to justify inaction, you’re already falling behind.
This episode is a reality check on accountability, adaptation, and why the people winning right now aren’t more talented—they’re...
The Industry Lied to You About “The Right Way” to Win | Ep. 59
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Most loan officers aren’t failing because they’re not working hard enough.
They’re failing because they’re building a business that doesn’t fit them.
In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down one of the most overlooked problems in the mortgage industry: misalignment between your strengths and your business model.
You’re told to:
 Prospect like this  Build relationships like that  Post content like themÂBut what if none of that actually fits who you are?
This conversation flips the script—f...
You Can Either Outsell the Shift or Get Crushed By It | Ep. 58
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The market isn’t “getting tough.”
 It’s changing.
And most loan officers are still operating like it’s 2021.
In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down the reality of the new economy—where AI, inflation, global conflict, and shifting consumer behavior are rewriting the rules in real time.
No predictions. No false hope.
Just a blunt question:
👉 If the market flipped tomorrow… would your business survive, thrive, or fail?
Because what worked post-COVID won’t work now.
And th...
Poaching, Data Theft, and Why This Industry Is Broken | Ep. 57
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This one gets heated.
On this episode of The MLO Project, Frazier and Michael break down a real-world lawsuit involving loan officer poaching, data handling, and alleged email surveillance, and what it exposes about the mortgage industry.
Spoiler: nobody looks clean.
From loan officers forwarding borrower files…
To lenders locking people out overnight…
To shady transitions and broken trust…
This episode pulls back the curtain on a problem the industry avoids:
how deals, data, and relationships are handled when people move.
Beca...
Your Pipeline Shouldn’t Look Like a Science Project | Ep. 56
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In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down one of the biggest silent killers in production: overcomplicated CRMs and bloated pipelines.
15 stages. Endless automations. “What if” scenarios everywhere.
It feels productive. It’s not.
This conversation cuts through the noise and shows you how to simplify your pipeline, clean up your CRM, and actually use your system the way it was meant to be used—to close more loans.
Because here’s the truth: Complex systems don’t scale.
What You’ll Learn
 Why most lo...The Internet Is Getting Dumber. Don't Get Dumber With It | Ep. 55
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This episode is a straight shot at the junk flooding your feed.
Frazier and Michael break down the rise of fake engagement posts, real estate mastermind nonsense, AI generated garbage, and why too many people are getting pulled into content that has zero value. From ridiculous Facebook group drama to obvious bait posts and recycled AI takes, this conversation is all about protecting your attention and staying focused on what actually matters.
The big takeaway: in a world full of slop, being real is your edge.
If...
Nothing Says “Helping Veterans” Like Steering & Kickbacks | Ep. 54
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The mortgage industry is buzzing about one headline right now: Veterans United is being accused of steering and deceiving military veterans.
In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down what the lawsuit actually says, what parts of it matter, and why loan officers should be paying attention.
This conversation goes deeper than industry gossip. It touches on the ethics of VA loan marketing, potential RESPA violations, and the bigger issue of how veterans are treated within the mortgage system.
The hosts also debate whether loan...
Attention, Traffic, Data. That's The Game Now. Are You Playing? | Ep. 53
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On this episode of The MLO Project with Frazier & Michael McAllister...
Compass pulled 500,000 listings from Zillow overnight. Redfin gets the inventory. Rocket gets the mortgage. And most loan officers are still asleep. Frazier and Michael break down the Compass, Redfin, and Rocket trifecta, what it actually means for your pipeline, and why the loan officers who have been building real relationships are going to be fine while everyone else scrambles.
In This Episode:
What the Compass and Redfin exclusive listing deal actually meansWhy Rocket doesn't need...AI Isn't Taking Your Job. It's Taking Your Borrowers | Ep. 52
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Look, we are going to piss some people off today. Good. That means we're doing our job.
Michael and Frazier are coming in hot on this one, and if you've been spending your weekends hunched over a laptop vibe coding some custom AI tool you think is going to crush it in 2026, you need to hear this episode right now. Like, stop what you're doing and press play.
Here's what went down. On February 5th, two new AI models dropped from OpenAI and Claude, and they weren't just updates...
Did MortgageCon Just Change The Mortgage Event Game? (Again) | Ep. 51
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Fresh off MortgageCon, Frazier and Michael break down what made this event completely different from the typical mortgage conference experience.
From hosting the event inside Universal Studios to AI duels, practitioner-led sessions, and private park access, this wasn’t just another sit-in-a-ballroom event. It was immersive, high-energy, and packed with real, usable insights for loan officers who actually want to grow.
But beyond the experience, the real value came from the content. The recurring themes were clear: don’t lose your humanity in an AI world, stop being a prod...
Real Talk About Paid Ads: Intent Beats Interruption. Every Time. | Ep. 50
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Thinking about running paid ads in 2026? Pump the brakes.
Frazier and Michael are breaking down the truth about paid advertising — what works, what doesn’t, and where most loan officers go wrong. Whether you’re sitting on a 30K marketing budget or barely spending $300 a month, this episode is a tactical deep dive into interruption vs. intent, social vs. search, and why Google still wins if you're serious about ROI.
No fluff. No theory. Just straight talk on what actually drives deals — and what wil...
You Don’t Own the Customer | Ep. 49
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You think that client is “yours”? Think again.
In this episode, Frazier (COVID-stricken but still showing up) and Michael (running on espresso and spite) break down a brutal but necessary truth: you don’t own the customer, you’re just renting attention.
From trigger leads to servicing transfers to Rocket buying Mr. Cooper, the guys explain why your feelings don’t belong in the pipeline and how whining about lost deals won’t get you paid. This is about controlling what you can control — and mastering retention like a pro.
Goals Are Just Greeting Cards for Your Ego | Ep. 48
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It’s a new year, which means your feed is flooded with goal-setting posts, vision boards, and all the same recycled motivation. But here’s the truth: None of that matters without execution. In this episode, Frazier and Michael torch the traditional January BS and get straight to what actually drives success in 2026.
You’ll hear why most loan officers set goals that are more about ego than execution—and how that mindset will keep you broke and burned out. We break down the difference between real commitment and performative goal-chasing, and give...
Headlines: The Reset, The Risk, and The Rise of DSCR | Ep. 47
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In this special New Year's edition of The MLO Project, Frazier and Michael tackle two hot headlines shaping the future of the mortgage industry. From National Mortgage News’ prediction that 2026 will be the industry’s “reset year” to HousingWire’s deep dive on the growing dominance of DSCR loans—this episode is packed with straight talk, strategic insights, and zero fluff.
Frazier breaks down key takeaways from the “2026 reset” article, calling out the recycled advice on chasing shiny objects, while uncovering powerful truths about layered affordability solutions and compliance complacency. Michael fires back with...
Delete the Drama or Stay Broke | Ep. 46
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Some of you need to hear this—not everyone in your life is helping you win.
That includes the guy on your LO team who complains every day.
That includes your "mentor" who hasn’t closed a loan since 2019.
And yes, that might even include family.
In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down a viral Growth Notes topic: removing toxic people from your business and your life. It starts with the clowns in your comment section—but it runs much deeper. From drama in Facebook groups...
You’re Owed Nothing. Earn It. | Ep. 45
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This one isn’t for the fragile.
Frazier comes in hot after a no-filter conversation with a loan officer who needed the truth and Michael is right there with him pulling zero punches. This episode dives deep into the entitlement mindset plaguing LOs in today’s market. Just because you used to be good doesn’t mean you still are. Nobody owes you leads, results, or respect just because you show up.
It’s about time we said it out loud:
The reason you’re losing has nothin...
If You’re An Average LO, AI’s Your Replacement Plan | Ep. 44
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We’ve been hearing a lot of noise lately…
“AI is going to replace loan officers in 18 months.”
Cool story. Let’s talk about it.
In this episode, we go straight at the hype.
No fluff. No fear tactics. Just facts.
If you’re tired of the same old doom-and-gloom headlines, this is your reset button.
👉 It’s time to stop reacting and star...
Uncle RICO Has Entered the Chat on Zillow's Lawsuit | Ep. 43
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Zillow just got smacked with a RICO and RESPA class action lawsuit—and your favorite originator tag team isn’t holding back. Frazier and Michael go full Napoleon Dynamite-mode and break down how this case could rock the entire mortgage and real estate ecosystem.
This isn’t just about Flex. It’s about pay-to-play models, illegal referrals, and what needs to happen for real change. Should RESPA be redefined? Are MSAs dead? What does "value" even mean anymore in co-marketing? And what’s the real fix—more regulation, deregulation, or just brutal hones...
Forget What You Know! Build What’s Possible w/Jason Kindler | Ep. 42
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In this special in-person episode of The MLO Project, Frazier and Michael sit down with Florida broker and First Coast Mortgage co-founder Jason Kindler, live from Idaho at the High Table mastermind. It’s a no-fluff conversation about leadership, building efficient operations, crushing limiting beliefs, and redefining what’s possible for mortgage companies heading into 2026.
Kindler opens up about his personal and professional journey, including surviving the crash, getting sober, and rebuilding with intention. He shares how he's preparing his team to not just survive the next boom—but scale...
Striking Out! Why You’re Losing Clients You Closed | Ep. 41
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“Strike Rate, Stale Leads, and Regret”
In this unfiltered episode of The MLO Project, Frazier and Michael go off the rails (and the map) with a fiery breakdown of one of the most neglected goldmines in the mortgage business: your damn database.
Coming off the Accelerate session at Fuse, the guys break down why strike rate conversations are a no-brainer, why most LOs fumble their past client relationships, and why assuming someone else isn’t talking to your past client is the bi...
Are You Paying Attention? Data Is the New Commission | Ep. 40
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In this high-energy episode of The MLO Project, Frazier and Michael come in hot fresh off AIME’s Fuse 2025, breaking down lessons, laughs, and the unexpected win of a 7:00 a.m. breakout session that packed the room.
Michael shares the behind-the-scenes story of his first “legit” Fuse experience, the vibes-only navigation system through the Gaylord Opryland, and why his High-Level Blueprint session had brokers buzzing before the sun came up.
This isn’t another tech talk — it’s a wake-up call for loan officers who...
Got Mortgages? Got Receipts. Got Results w/Abdel Khawatmi | Ep. 39
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Abdel Khawatmi didn’t just show up—he dropped a masterclass.
From building a consumer-direct and partner-driven hybrid model, to running multiple AI-driven systems, to scaling a team while still showing up like a true operator, this episode is everything The MLO Project is about.
Abdel breaks down exactly how he tracks every KPI in his business, uses social media as a brand amplifier (not a direct lead source), integrates AI like Fireflies, ChatGPT, Gamma, and Mortgage Coach to increase speed and...
Why AI Won’t Save Bad Loan Officers w/Luke Shankula | Ep. 38
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After months of build-up, calendar mishaps, and playful trash talk, Luke Shankula finally joins Frazier and Michael on The MLO Project. This episode delivers on all fronts: insights, shade, real talk on AI, marketing, lead gen, and why most loan officers are misusing the tools that should be helping them win.
The trio dives into why AI isn’t a magic wand, how bad sales habits get amplified by tech, and how Luke’s transition from “Loans on Demand” to marketing fundamentals is reshaping how LOs show up online. You’ll a...
I'll Educate You Whether You Want It or Not w/Hammer Helmer | Ep. 37
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Episode Overview
Hammer joins the MLO Project for what might be their most offensive (and honest) episode yet. From lock advice to social media strategy, Hammer breaks down what's actually working in today's market - and what's complete garbage.
Key Topics Covered:
The Rate Game (And Why You're Playing It Wrong)
The Emotional Side of Home Buying
Business Development Reality Check
Social Media Strategy That Actually Works
The Consistency Factor
The Hard Truth...
Stop Obsessing Over Rates | Ep. 36
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Proactivity in Loan Origination: Stop Obsessing Over Rates
In this episode of The MLO Project, hosts Frazier and Michael emphasize the importance of focusing on proactive, everyday actions over obsessing about fluctuating loan rates. They argue that industry success hinges on maintaining consistent communication with clients, having solid systems and processes in place, and focusing on long-term relationships rather than reacting to rate changes. Through lively discussion and practical advice, they advocate for a mindset shift towards creating a robust, dependable business strategy that remains effective regardless of market conditions.
<...
Clickbait B.S.: When Media Headlines Lie | Ep. 35
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In this episode of the MLO Project, hosts Frazier and Michael discuss the impact of media sensationalism, particularly focusing on a recent headline by HousingWire that inaccurately suggested that Equity Prime Mortgage (EPM) could no longer originate FHA loans. The hosts emphasize the importance of reading beyond headlines and understanding the broader implications of clickbait on both individual behavior and the mortgage industry. They also urge listeners to maintain focus on their roles in serving communities and promoting homeownership while being cautious of the distractions and manipulations often present in media and social...
Build a Million-Dollar Network Without Leaving Your Office | Ep. 34
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In this episode of the MLO Project, Frazier and Michael dive into the importance of community in the mortgage industry and announce the launch of MLO Hub - a new platform designed specifically for mortgage professionals to connect, learn, and grow together.
The Community Problem
Why Facebook groups aren't cutting it for professional growthThe challenge of siloed communities in the mortgage industryHow social media distractions hurt productivityThe need for focused, professional spacesIntroducing MLO Hub
A school-like community platform built specifically for mortgage professionalsWhite-labeled...Why Every LO Is Talking About Go High Level (and Why You Should Too) | Ep. 33
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Empowering Loan Officers with HighLevel CRM Solutions
In this episode of the MLO Project, hosts Frazier and Michael dive deep into the benefits of using HighLevel CRM for mortgage professionals. They discuss the value of HighLevel as a single platform for managing leads, marketing, and daily workflows, aiming to make it the number one CRM in the mortgage industry. They also introduce HL4 (HighLevel for Mortgage Pros), a comprehensive support community for loan officers using HighLevel, and share exciting announcements including partnerships, speaking engagements, and an invite-only mastermind event. The episode...
You're Either All-In or You're All-Out w/Darren Copeland | Ep. 32
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In this episode of the MLO Project, Michael and Frazier are joined by special guest Darren "DC" Copeland, owner and founder of Summit Lending. The discussion covers a range of topics including overcoming obstacles, the importance of being coachable, and leveraging AI and modern marketing tactics to stay ahead. DC shares his insights from over 22 years in the mortgage industry, emphasizing the need for discipline, planning, consistent efforts, and the importance of personal branding and online presence. He also highlights the diminishing middle ground in the industry, urging loan officers to go 'all...
Real Talk: Our Hard Lessons From Failure | Ep. 31
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In this episode of the MLO Project, hosts Frazier and Michael dive deep into the topic of failure. They share personal stories of significant setbacks, exploring how these experiences have shaped their professional lives and perspectives. Frazier recounts the collapse of his business relationships and the subsequent reputational damage that forced him to rebuild from the ground up. Similarly, Michael shares his experience of getting expelled from college and the life-changing effects it had. The episode underscores that while failure is a painful and inevitable part of the journey to success, it also...
What's Up Niches! | Ep. 30
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In this episode of the MLO Project, Frazier and Michael discuss the importance of loan officers niching down to maximize their expertise and business opportunities. They hit on common misconceptions about limiting income potential by focusing on a niche market. They share personal experiences and insights on how becoming an expert in a specific area can lead to broader business opportunities and industry recognition.Â
Michael also touches on Empower LO's journey from being perceived as a general lead generation service to becoming the go-to experts in high-level CRM for mortgage professionals. T...
