Leadership Decanted
Curious about leaders, leading teams, or leadership? So are Paul Garcia and Kerry "KG" Butler. In fact, they turned their periodic happy hour chats about life and leadership into the Leadership Decanted Podcast. Join Paul and KG as they discuss all things leadership. Each episode of Leadership Decanted asks fascinating questions about leadership and keeps the conversation flowing over a nice bottle of wine.
(6.09) Show up. Step up. Make a difference.
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Can we step up to something before we even know how to do it? Our guest has been doing exactly that since he ran for school captain as the most unlikely of candidates, and then forgot to mention it to his mum.
KG and Paul spent time in the Podcave with George Catsi, a creative producer, academic and community leader who has been president of the Petersham Bowling Club for 20 years and teaches the Master of Creative Industries at JMC Academy. It’s also been 35 years since G...
Cheeky Half Episode (44): Some surprising stats: What leaders should note about resilience.
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Paul & KG get into the stats from Zurich’s Australian Resilience Index, a few numbers that seem to contradict each other, and what a leader might do with all of it (we also recall Episode 4.07 and how social cohesion might be related).
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on any further explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
Some useful resources
Australian Resilience Index, Zurich Australia with Mandala Partners, RedBridge and Accent Research, https://www.zurich.com.au/lat...(6.08) The Mule and the Tightrope Walker: Lessons in 'Both/And' Leadership
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What if the tension we keep trying to fix is not meant to be fixed? It takes a mule, a tightrope walker, a bottle of Shiraz and a mild disagreement over whether paradox is an 'invitation' or a 'demand' to get anywhere near an answer. (Paul votes 'demand'.)
KG and Paul spent time in the Podcave with Wendy K. Smith, a professor of management and co-author of Both/And Thinking, who has spent 25 years playing with paradox - from IBM's move to the cloud to career decisions...
Cheeky Half Episode (43): Values don't 'trickle down' so easily.
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Does a founder's carefully curated set of values survive a growing business, especially as the distance from founder to frontline staff increases? Paul's barely digested thought for this 'cheeky half' is that it doesn't always, and he's calling it 'trickle-down values'. KG has seen it too, and we'd like to know whether you have.
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on any further explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
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If you are interested in a wri...
(6.07) Leadership and Technology, for the Wider Human Experience
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Every keyboard you've ever typed on started life as an assistive device. That's not just a factoid, it's the whole thrust of this episode. If you design for the people the market usually treats as 'niche,' you tend to build something better for everyone else too. This goes from wheelchairs to closed captions to AI training data, and gets more interesting at every stop.
KG and Paul spent time in the Podcave with Pete Horsley, founder of Remarkable, the disability tech accelerator built by the Cerebral...
Cheeky Half Episode (42): Can you be a good leader AND a bad person, at the same time?
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KG recently noticed some conflicting attitudes toward a leader: some people seem to be willing to defend them to the death, and others wouldn't follow them into a fire drill. Same person, same behaviour and two completely different verdicts, which suggests the disagreement may not really be a verdict on the leader at all. Maybe it's about where each of us privately draws the line around a moral or ethical position, and how wildly that line shifts between one person to the next, for reasons most of us have never actually examined.
Paul s...
(6.06) 97 Ways to Get What You Want.
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There's a fairly persuasive myth about power: that once you have enough of it, everything else follows. This episode makes a decent case against that, using nothing more dramatic than a chief executive who can restructure an entire division and still can't get their own kid to tidy their room. If you've ever wondered why some very senior people still don't get listened to, or why some people with almost nothing get listened to constantly, this one's for you.
Join KG and Paul as they chat to Jen...
Cheeky Half Episode (41): Human dignity in the age of AI.
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Paul's been reading something unexpected: Pope Leo XIV's first encyclical, Magnifica Humanitas, arguing that AI should be judged against human dignity, not efficiency. It's a genuinely different take on a topic that mostly produces unreflective panic or unquestioned evangelism.
Join Paul & KG for this Cheeky Half episode. And if you haven't yet listened to their earlier conversation on this in Cheeky Half 40, it makes a good companion listen.
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on any further explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
<...(6.05) Leading with an Open Heart
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Most leadership conversations happen above the neck. Steve Ray, a groupwork facilitator and open-heart practitioner, thinks that's only half the picture, and arguably the less interesting half. This is an episode about the inner critic, the community of selves, and what happens when a podcast host attempts a live meditation mid-episode and immediately starts contending with his own inner critic.
Join KG and Paul as they chat to Steve, a groupwork facilitator at Group Work Centre and practitioner at The Natural Way of Living, about...
Cheeky Half Episode (40): AI is not just a tool. It's a reflection of who we are.
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KG has spent considerable time carefully avoiding the AI conversation on Social Media. His reward for finally joining that conversation is also our reward - a 'hot take' that turns out to be much more interesting than either the unreflective panic or unquestioned evangelism the hosts have frequently encountered on this topic.
Join Paul & KG as they follow that thread in this Cheeky Half episode. And if you haven't yet listened to their conversation with Dr. Jay Spence in Episode 6.02, "Is AI coming for our...
(6.04) A Kaleidoscope, Not a Recipe: Systemic Leadership in Polycrisis
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Something has seemed fairly obvious in the field of leadership development for a while now: the gap between what people learn and what they're able to apply when they return to their organisations. It shows up as disillusionment, stalled change efforts, and the recurring question of why things that seem so clear in a programme setting become so resistant in practice. It's a gap Liz Skelton has been sitting with, and working on, for over two decades.
Join KG and Paul as they chat to Liz <...
Cheeky Half Episode (39): Did you experience A LOT OF stress yesterday? You aren't alone.
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Gallup publishes its State of the Global Workplace report once a year. This year it's 251 pages of data on engagement, emotions, wellbeing and the general mood of the global workforce. One of its headlines on the 2026 edition? "Global employee wellbeing improved for the first time in three years."
Paul and KG have questions. And Paul calls BS.
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on a written explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
You can find the Gallup State of the Global Workplace: 2026 Report...(6.03) Leading through Consciousness: Seeing Things 'As They Are'.
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If you are a 'dyed-in-the-wool' rationalist, you may not enjoy this episode. However, if every now and again you find yourself asking, "I wonder if there is truth and knowledge beyond what I see and hear - maybe even outside the 'accepted' boundaries I was taught?" then continue!
KG and Paul are enthralled by a most unexpected conversation with Marti Spiegelman, a teacher and practitioner of 'Indigenous Technologies' or, as she herself sometimes refers to them, 'Original Wisdom'.
Join us for the conversation where Marti tak...
Cheeky Half Episode (38): "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."
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Robert Burns' poem, To a Mouse, provides the line (translated into more modern English) to this episode's title. Paul went on that potentially fraught trip (see Cheeky Half 37 for that story!), and he thought he had everything under control - until he didn't.
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on any further explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
And yes, Paul & KG would like to acknowledge their privilege.
Please feel free to send us your thoughts, comments and suggestions any time by
(6.02) Is AI coming for our brains?!?!
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Artificial Intelligence is all over our feeds. It is both, promising and threatening, in equal measure.
As we drink from the fire hose of hallucinatory AI 'information', what are we to make of its reach and its use? We know that many AI tools can parrot back meeting conversations and often provide some useful summaries of the topics that were discussed. But shared language can often lead to a blind and untested assumption of shared meaning. Just because we use the same words; does it necessarily mean we arrived at the same understanding?<...
Cheeky Half Episode (37): From a Mexican Holiday to the 'Sunk Cost' Fallacy.
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How does the capture and death of a drug cartel kingpin, Paul's planned vacation and the phenomenon of the sunk cost fallacy end up as part of the same 'Cheeky Half' conversation? Good question.
Cheeky Half episodes are short. So rather than spending your precious minutes on a written explanation, we definitely encourage you to listen.
And yes, Paul & KG would like to acknowledge their privilege.
Please feel free to send us your thoughts, comments and suggestions any time by leaving us a text/voice message via the...
(6.01) Leadership. For Humans. By Humans.
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Fifty! Yes, that's 50.
Episodes, that is.
As we begin our sixth year of Leadership Decanted, we kick it off with our 50th main episode. And what a rewarding conversation this was. In this episode the conversation turns to questions like,
"What if leadership is simply a response to human connection? And not just connection, but also the nurturing and cultivation of those very connections so as to contribute to the lives of those we lead and those we serve?"
What would th...
Cheeky Half Episode (36): 2026 is looking good!
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Welcome back! And thank you for joining us on the first Cheeky Half of Season 6.
Join Paul & KG as they talk about what the sixth year may hold for the show, as well as shaking the dust from their microphones by talking about a whole lot of nuthin'!
And we also welcome back our wonderful supporters, Annandale Cellars. We don't know what wines we're going to get, but we can guarantee they're going to be amazing!
This year we want to make a concerted effort...
(5.11) Endings and Beginnings: We look back on our year
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Five years. Five seasons. 2025 was a milestone year for us in the podcave. And we have you and our wonderful guests to thank for that.
In this final episode of 2025, KG and Paul reflect on the year that was - the many insightful, if not inspirational, conversations. The impact our guests are making both, in their local communities and across the glove. And the wines... oh, the wines!
Thank you all for your continued support. We'd love to step up our engagement with our audience in the c...
(5.10) Leadership: A Profound Expression of Empathy & Compassion
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It's easy to dismiss social barriers as inevitable - the natural friction that comes with 'being different'. But it's much harder to look directly at the systems that keep people unseen, unheard, and separate from opportunity. But what if the work of genuine leadership offered something far more radical: not the removal of barriers through policy or process alone, but the daily practice of seeing people in their wholeness, and moving with them through the discomfort of that recognition?
Shaun Christie-David offers a quiet counterpoint to the usual narratives around social...
Cheeky Half Episode (35): This should go without a hitch...
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We rarely publish 'sequels' for our Cheeky Half episodes, but this one was too good to miss. The saga continues with Paul's plumbing. A complicated, but relatively routine, project has become altogether something else.
Join Paul & KG as they discuss the next chapter of a little story that includes backed-up sewerage pipes, very large native trees, and the need to protect endangered species.
We'd love to hear what you thought of this conversation and any suggestions on this topic for future episodes.
Oh, and if you'd like to take f...
(5.09) Leadership and Global Peacemaking
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Calls for peace have become louder and more urgent across the globe over the last few years. So much so that it's difficult to know how to respond in ways that feel meaningful and relevant. After all, how can a drop in the ocean move an unrelenting tide?
Mandar Apte is proof that an individual, with no initial political, financial or cultural stock, can actually move the needle for real and lasting peace. And whilst the aspiration is global, the work unfolds in our local communities - having started by bridging...
Cheeky Half Episode (34): When things start to get a little 'smelly'...
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Something went wrong with Paul's plumbing. Those in his house, that is. Needless to say, it was a little unpleasant. However, not being one to let a learning opportunity pass him by, there were a couple of things that left him thinking.
Join Paul & KG as they discuss a little story that includes dark, stormy nights, backed-up sewerage pipes, and what happens when you don't spend enough time understanding a problem or an issue before dismissing it as irrelevant.
[Shout out to Naomi for 'inspiring' this conversation!]
We'd love to...
(5.08) Leadership Through Systemic Intelligence
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What makes this conversation so inspiring is the notion that, when we are working with individual leaders to strengthen their leadership practice, we are also supporting their teams, their families and their communities. We are not just supporting the individual but the entire system in which they are located.
Sarah Cornally is a passionate leadership practitioner, and Partner at Acumen Global Partners. She is adamant 'systemic thinking' is the essential lens for anyone navigating the deep complexity of modern organisations. Sarah, KG and Paul dive straight into why understanding systems - rather than...
Cheeky Half Episode (33): There's never a 'Silver Bullet'. Or is there...?
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Our very first live podcast recording with Steve Hearsum (Episode 5.07) is the gift that keeps giving!
Join Paul & KG as they open the space to questions from our audience for our highly engaging guest. The questions are considered, and the ongoing conversation is insightful, offering an unexpected invitation to deeper reflection and vulnerability.
And let us repeat, for your drinking pleasure, the delectable wines provided by our friends at Annandale Cellars on this occasion.
2022 Spinifex Bête Noir Shiraz. 2024 Catlow & Company Nebbiolo 2024 Wanderer Yar...(5.07) Leadership & the Myth of the Silver Bullet (LIVE!)
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Join KG and Paul in Leadership Decanted's FIRST podcast recorded in front of a live audience. Exciting times indeed!
It seems that if we're doing leadership well, then chances are we will regularly experience uncertainty, ambiguity, doubt, and maybe even shame at our inability to find a solution to many of our challenges. Leadership is hard. We know this.
If only there was a ready-made and easily deployable solution to each of these complex situations. There isn't one. We know this too.
And yet we n...
Cheeky Half Episode (32): You're Not the Boss of Me!
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Paul & KG revisit the most recent Cheeky Half conversation to return to a most vexed question: What happens when I express a personal opinion in public that is at odds with my organisation's position? What right does my organisation have to curb my expression if I am in no way seeking to represent them or speak for them?
It's unlikely this conversation goes where you think it's going to go! We think this might even be a topic worth expanding on in a future episode. Please help! What do you think.<...
(5.06) When too much conflict is never enough - Leadership & Negotiation.
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How many of us feel the urge to run away, hide or simply observe the foetal position when faced with the prospect of conflict? What if we were able to reframe that experience and begin to believe - really believe - that too much conflict is never enough? That conflict is the very fuel that drives both, our own growth and positive relationships with our colleagues?
Fiona McKenzie believes just that!
However, we don't just need to reframe our relationship to conflict to allow us to find this path. We also...
Cheeky Half Episode (31): Leadership - You Can Leave Your Hats On.
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Paul & KG are back with their Cheeky Halves after a brief and unplanned hiatus. They have not, however, been idle during this time. In fact, KG in particular has been deep in reflection, wondering about all the leadership hats that might be available to us all, but also having a bit of trouble working out how best to wear those hats. Subsequently they both kick around some ideas around authenticity and risk.
We'd love to hear what you thought of this conversation.
Please feel free to send us your thoughts, comments a...
(5.05) Leadership and Serious Social Play
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Serious. Social. Play. WTF?!?
On this episode, KG and Paul welcomed Chris Maxwell and Marcus Crow, the duo behind the consulting firm 10,000 Hours and the digital product company Pod & Hive to discuss their unique approach to leadership development, built on a conversation that began 18 years ago.
Their methodology centres on what they call "serious social play" - using simulated sandbox environments for teams to practice navigating complexity. These are not typical team-building exercises.
The goal of these games is to shift the focus from the individuals ('nodes') to the...
(5.04) Leadership and the Art of Deep Transformation
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The word 'transformation' is thrown around in all sorts of contexts and in all manner of attempts to sell change. The outcomes are never given, despite best laid plans, and it often falls down not because of process nor technology. The stumbling block is usually us. And it's not about the oversimplified trope of being resistant to change. On many occasions we actually want to see the change succeed - especially if it will make our lives easier. But good intentions are rarely enough.
What is often ignored in both small and large c...
(5.03) Artist, Academic, Activist: Leadership's Many Hats
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After a welcome break over Easter (sorry we forgot to mention it!), KG and Paul get back to the podcave for an amazing conversation with Dr. Rachael Jacobs - artist, academic, activist.
You may have heard the oft repeated phrase, "Bring your whole self to work." What does that even mean? Rachael chats to our hosts about her own deep cultural reconnection through the discovery of dance, as well as how her many paths in life provide a clue to what that looks like for her.
As an artist, Ra...
(5.02) Leadership: It's all Bollocks!
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When many of us consider leadership and leadership practice, we may assume specific contexts (corporate, politics, the public domain), and specific ways to 'do' leadership. In fact, from accepted governance processes to the way organisations are structured and even how they might report their outcomes, effective leadership is assumed to include a set of agreed 'rules' - ways of doing this thing that we've come to expect of those in leadership positions.
But what if that doesn't work for you? What if these unquestioned norms are simply 'bollocks'?
KG and Paul...
Cheeky Half Episode (30): Is Leadership in Crisis?
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According to DDI's Global Leadership Forecast 2025 Report, the state of global organisational leadership is nothing short of dire. But how bad is it?
Paul & KG kick around a some of the stats, and reflect on a few infographics to try and get a handle on what might be going on. But more importantly, they ask some uncomfortable questions. If current organisational Leadership across the globe is as bad as the report suggests, then what on Earth is going on with all those corporate wellbeing programs? Have we simply been dazed into a false...
(5.01) From Diapers to Dirt: A Leadership Journey through the Circular Economy.
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[Episode contains explicit language - but not too much!]
In this episode, KG and Paul kick off the year with an inspiring conversation featuring Dr. Jason Graham-Nye, an entrepreneur tackling global environmental challenges through the circular economy. Jason shares how his team is addressing the massive problem of disposable nappy waste in the South Pacific, where nappies make up 30% of household waste and where both, eco-systems and economies are fragile and at risk of collapse.
Their model eliminates plastic waste, creates compost to regenerate soil...
Cheeky Half Episode (29): Leadership and the Need for Endurance
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We're back for Season 5! How amazing is that??!!
We kick things off with Paul & KG catching up, chatting about the year ahead and then quickly digress into a conversation on endurance. This Cheeky Half episode is definitely 'on brand', as it introduces a half-baked idea, and leaves it hanging. Maybe you can help them finish it?
Have a listen (it's very brief). We'd love to hear what you thought of this conversation.
Thanks for coming back for another season. We love that you do, and are grateful for your...
Cheeky Half Episode (28): Looking forward.
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This is it folks! Well, for this year, anyway.
Paul & KG look forward to what may be in store for 2025, and throw around some ambitious ideas in the process.
Have a listen (it's very brief), and let us know what you think! We'd love to hear what you thought of this conversation.
See you in Season 5, kicking off in February 2025. But please, feel free to send us your thoughts, comments and suggestions between now and then.
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(4.10) Our journey in 2024.
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In our final main episode for this season, Paul & KG reminisce over a cracker of a wine! As they sip on a 2022 Toolangi Chardonnay they highlight moments in Leadership Decanted's many conversations over this last year that resonated with them most.
For those of you who might be catching up, or wondering where you might dip your toe next, this episode is a great primer!
We are very much looking forward to spending some time with you in 2025.
Sláinte friends!
Cheeky Half Episode (27): When you feel the world is burning, what then?
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KG has referred to this conversation topic as a little 'spicy'. Though we suspect many of our listeners will feel the heat in different ways, if at all.
Before you listen, be aware this conversation is politics 'adjacent'. However, we do not delve into any political detail, and it is not really a response to an election result. It is, though, a response to the many responses an election result has triggered.
We aren't sure how spicy you'll find it, but strap yourself in and have a glass of milk handy...
(4.09) Leadership and The Wisdom of the Horse.
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Being aware of how we 'show up' in our workplaces, how we interact with our colleagues and what our bodies are telling us in even the most seemingly trivial interactions (am I anxious, tense, relaxed, energised?) is, at least in our experience, a critical set of skills for anyone practicing leadership - at any level.
What if we told you that acquiring this most valuable of skills can be found in the paddock, by exploring your connection with a horse?
Jackie Smith is Founder and Lead Facilitator at The Wisdom of...
