Redemptive Living Radio

The 90/10 principle simply means that 90% of the work of relational rebuilding is a husband’s responsibility post betrayal (+ 100% of a husband’s personal work). That 90% means going first, leading the process, holding the weight of the brokenness in the relationship, engaging, initiating, following through, amending, living forgivable and working on being trustworthy.    The 10% that is a wife’s work in the beginning is simply showing up and being a willing participant in the process, grieving, watching, waiting, navigating boundaries and needs, and finding a sense of security. That she has 10% isn’t suggesting that she’s got it easy; quite the opposite...

As I listen to the first part of this episode, I am so thankful we aren’t where we were five months ago with our little puppy.  I will say - we are still considering getting rid of him because while he is much easier for us than he was five months ago, he is still a LOT.  I was giggling with how I was pronouncing words like diarrhea and nope.  Don’t mind me!   In this episode, we wanted to talk about this concept that his recovery, and more specifically his processing is personal but not private.  Jason talks about som...

We are back with part 2 of the lying episode.

We jump in to talking about what helped Jason stop lying:

#1 - Brute force effort to be honest as well as brute force effort to fight the addictive voice inside of him. (Jason said he would argue internally with the man he was fighting to become versus the old, addictive self pulling him back.)

#2 - He came to a place of determination that he could handle the fall out. Out of this shift came one of Jason’s core recovery mantra’s: I’d rather...

We are starting to come to the final bend in the road for Season #7, before we take a break. In this episode - we talk about lying - something that comes up a lot with the gals I connect with on Instagram as well as one of the things that was posted more than once in the question box on IG when I asked for podcast suggestions.   What I always say is: women are willing to do the excruciating work of healing from betrayal - but the lying is what becomes an impasse.   Here is what we are going to wa...

Hey Guys - We are so grateful for Emma’s willingness to share her story.  This is part 2.

SO much richness in this episode - from Thomas’s brokenness and guttural crying to Emma’s vulnerability to the 2nd disclosure and Emma’s awareness of having to move the wall around her heart accordingly.  To Thomas’s ultimate willingness and of course - as mentioned in the last show notes:  Emma’s fortitude and not accepting less.

Emma references a verse that Jason shared with her from Isaiah - hope to the hopeless.  She is referring to Isa...

We are thrilled to have Emma Berry with us on the podcast today!  Emma shares her side of the story with us both this week and next and we are so grateful she was willing to walk us through the ups and downs of her process with her husband, Thomas.  (See links below for Thomas’s side of the story, from several seasons back.)

Ladies - what I want you to be listening for is the fortitude Emma shows through the ebbs and flows.  Fortitude literally means strength under pressure and I believe it’s one of the key...

On this episode, we wanted to unpack what it looks like for men to do recovery out of the wounds (versus living recovery and not making everything about the wounds). Jason starts with explaining a bit more as to what he means by this: in the addiction (or integrity issue) - men are operating out of the wounds. In other words - the acting out mitigates the pain of the wounds. The same can happen in recovery - the recovery work mitigates (or is driven by) the wounds.

On the heels of talking about some of the markers that may point toward him not living with integrity (while in recovery) - we wanted to talk about three things that show sure signs of progress:

The easiest one to see with our eyes is:  humility.  This can look like fast acknowledgements and apologies for doing something wrong as well as fast acknowledgment of continued hurtful habits.

Bonus:  moving from the things I AM guilty for to what I am LIKELY guilty for.

Second - personal accountability to include:  radical ownership for lack of f...

In this episode, we are talking about signs that he may be acting out.  I have a lot of women that wonder (post discovery) - how will I know if he is acting out?  What if I miss the signs?  This episode is for you - AND - we have one bit of caution:  we are NOT trying to insert unnecessary doubt into your mind.  What we share here are potential indicators.  A collection of things that we have seen as red flags prior to confirmation of his acting out.  In addition, you want to look at these as a whole...

We go back to a listener question, this one from IG where a woman asked:  how do I stay with dignity when the acting out was so extensive.  I’ll be honest - as I listen to this episode, I think there is SO much more we could have shared and we didn’t.  I’m making the choice to push it out but read these show notes for some of my additional thoughts that weren’t included in the audio.   Where my mind goes initially is to work at untangling any “judgments” (and I don’t say that word in a negative way...

Hi y’all, you get the B team for the show notes on this episode! Jason here, trying to take up the slack, so these notes will be from my perspective not Shelley’s this time.

Listener Question #1 : How do I help my wife be close to me again?

With this question, we first have to remember that she may not be ready to be close again. If that’s the case, our efforts to draw her close will feel manipulative and selfish. Second, we have to challenge our motives and scrutinize if this is a) abo...

In light of some of the episodes we have produced this season - the deeper pain points, the why work episodes - there is a looming question I have wanted to address with Jason, on behalf of all women.  And here is the question:   Why did you marry me? And what makes me think you want to be with me today?

Maybe better put - convince me that you want to be with me.  And in all fairness - she also has to answer the same question:  do I want to be with him?

Jason shar...

In this episode, we talk about the interplay between the “why” work and the “what now” work.  The why work is heavy in the beginning of the process, and continues to “hum” in the background - but the "what now" begins to take more and more precedence, or at least that is what we hope for.

This wasn’t said in the episode but I want to say - I think the why work oftentimes takes a lot of intentionality (which means time) to take shape.  I don’t want to give the impression that the why work is easy - Jas...

In today's episode - I wanted to talk to Jason about his needs and her needs in the recovery process in a more informal way (as in - we didn’t do a ton of prep work before hitting the record button).  

I started off by sharing that I believe her needs are more important in the recovery process due to the covenant bond being broken (so in other words - one of the natural consequences of the sin of betrayal).

Jason then chimed in and I really like what he said:  his needs aren’t less...

This week we are talking resentment, iced tea, hand towels and dealing with Shelley’s mic situation.  I promise that is going to go away in future episodes - I didn’t realize that I am touching the mic so much!!!   I didn’t realize until about a year ago that resentment is a HUGE part of what he struggles with and has to untangle in his recovery process.  Specifically resentment toward her.  Literally - I had NO clue.   Our working definition of resentment:  demands equanimity and justice, used as a weapon, rooted in vows unfulfilled - and finally - projected at...

In this episode we are continuing to talk about his “why”.  It will be helpful for you to understand the four different categories that we are talking about as you listen to this episode and download the pdf which will be in the podcast freebie email (see link below).  Here are the four categories that go into the why:   Life Situations or Contextual Realities - noteworthy life events from your life between the ages of 6-16 (or beyond). Impact or Wounding - the impact based on the life situation - as Jason spoke about the impacts, he used feeling words, the 3I’...

Alright everyone - here we go - we are officially jumping into Season #7 and we aren’t turning back.  We are SO excited to be with you guys - and we are hoping we can be here for a while - we will see how long we can last!   We are going to be talking about “Why” work in this episode as well as the next one.  This episode is more so laying the foundation for episode #83 where we unpack the roadmap for getting to the why.   Jason states several things out of the gate that I think are important:   If you don’...

Welcome to the official first episode of Season #7! In this episode we wanted to talk to all of you about how to handle the deeper pain points (of hers) that feel like they will never ever go away. How can he help her handle those deeper pain points and how can she handle those deeper pain points.   Jason’s tips for husbands:     First - we can’t judge and don’t have a right to judge how deep the well of grief is. When he judges what is in the well, this just further adds to the sludge in the bottom of...

Hey Guys!  We wanted to re-release an episode from the past pertaining to navigating the holidays well.  The holidays can be really challenging - no matter what - and then throw in Family Systems (see below) + recovery and it’s a LOT.  The happy holidays can feel like the not so happy holidays.

We are so excited to get this season going and before we really get going in January - we wanted to release a couple of episodes this month and then come January, we will be back with all sorts of content.  Here is what we have planned thus far:   Interviews with some of the amazing folks from our team, the 90/10 rule, trusting ourselves post-betrayal, personal recovery isn’t the same thing as relational recovery, the mundanity of recovery, how do we know if he is acting out?, sure signs of progress,  the list goes on.

So here we are!  The final episode of Season #6.

We start with me needing to loop back to something we discussed in the last episode where Jason said he received feedback from someone saying that sometimes when Jason mentions the past / the timeline, that he is shaming me.  While I don’t think he is trying to shame me - I DO experience shame when certain parts of our story is mentioned.  I wanted to share a point of clarification that didn’t come to me until after we had stopped recording last week.

I’ve wanted...

In this episode - we talk about how he can hold her hostage in the recovery process.  We discuss this concept, of him holding her hostage, two different ways (or avenues or angles or well, you get the point).   The first avenue is how Jason interprets “holding her hostage” which essentially is him holding her hostage for his past wounds and holding her accountable and responsible to heal his past wounds.  This certainly was a dynamic that Jason and I dealt with while we were dating as well as while we were married.     We end up moving into a conversation about Jas...

It’s just me today, popping in to let you know we will be back next week with a fresh episode. I am sharing the quickest of life updates with you guys plus a reminder about a couple of resources that we offer.

We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6.

As we dig into the content of this particular episode - please keep in mind that these situations are SO nuanced.  So please take what we are sharing and consider how it applies to you.  What we share will not work for everyone in every situation.   #1 - Clearly End the Affair -    Our first suggestion for regaining confidence and to be able to go back out into the community with your head high is to consider utilizing a technique from I Don’t Love You Anymore (link below).  In the book, Dr. Clarke suggests that the betrayer (with his wife on the li...

As Jason said early on in this episode - recovery work is painful.  It hurts, it’s scary and no wonder we resist it.  Jason talks about how he went from resisting the recovery work to accepting that there was work to do.  It’s in this process that we make friends with the work.  As Thomas Berry, a coach on our team, says - we go from “got to TO get to”.

How we make friends with the work: 

1 - When recovery calls, we answer the call. 2 - Embrace that it's going to hurt. 3 - We make tim...

Basically, I try to take over during the first five minutes of the episode as I talk about hope.  Then I pass the mic over to Jason and you will probably actually like what he says much more.  I just try to sprinkle in anecdotal comments as I can, you’re welcome.

Hope is a handhold for wives in the following ways…

1 - it gives women a sense of security in the middle of what is a very chaotic experience.

2 - it can reconcile staying.

3 - it can be a reprieve from t...

Get out your thinking caps - this episode is heady and I had to rewind many many times to re-listen while I was working on these show notes.  We are talking empathy (and intimacy and conviction) today.  I believe that empathy is one of the key ingredients that will help her heart heal within the context of the couple-ship.  So developing empathy is KEY.

We talk neuroanatomy:  prefrontal cortex, mirror neurons, cortical hypofrontality and modeling of empathy from others.  We also talk biblical anthropology:  the holy spirit interacting with our spirit and in that there can be a cult...

In this episode, we get real honest about a recent series of arguments we had about money, with the intent of sharing with you guys what engaging in conflict can look like in “late recovery”.  Not that we do conflict perfectly or recovery perfectly (as you will surely hear) but we get questions about what life looks like today - years and years post betrayal and with a lot of recovery work under our belts, collectively.  We laugh a LOT today.  And we have a really sweet marriage.  And we STILL do a lot of arguing and disagreeing.

Ultim...

In this episode, we talk about the value of the full disclosure and some of the reasons that doing a full disclosure (for both him and for her) is incredibly beneficial.  Here are some of those reasons:

- for men:  integration of the story and the acting out - as in, making sense of and connecting dots in his story as a whole which informs the recovery and healing process

- for men:  writing out our stories has been shown via research to help with the healing process at a cellular level

- for...

In this episode, we piggyback off of the last episode on Frontloading and discuss how women can leverage this technique in order to feel safe having certain conversations with him. This technique is essentially giving him a heads up that a difficult conversation needs to be had + insuring he is in an open space to have said conversation well in advance of it starting. I love this technique because it serves as an insurance policy to help protect her from additional hurt and pain. (And can also be considered a gift for him because he isn’t being put on...

In this episode, we talk about Frontloading, a term we first heard from Jennifer Kolari after doing some parenting therapy with her. See the link below for her information.

Frontloading is the conversation we have prior to an anticipated event (or an anticipated conversation). Keep in mind, it's about a heart attitude, not about a playbook / plan / script. This heart attitude says two things: 1 - Empathy and tenderness will inform me going into this situation well, and 2 - I don’t have to fear fall out. The point of frontloading is to be prepared FOR the hurtful st...

In this episode, we talk about her getting stuck and how this can be (not always, but can be) connected to him NOT doing good, consistent work. Jason recaps a couple of things from episode #68 - What is Good Work (definitely check out that episode if you want to learn more about what “good” work looks like - see the link below.)

We discuss four big things that can cause her to get stuck in the process (when he is not doing good work). These include:

1 - When there isn’t clarity on if he is doi...

So, let’s say he is doing mostly good work. Oftentimes when he is doing this mostly good work, women are faced with a dilemma. Does she accept the good work and lean into it and trust it? OR does she hold him / the good work at arm’s length and continue to watch and wait and keep herself safe?

We start with exploring some of the reasons she runs into this dilemma. These include: 

1 - Unconscious tug of war happening in her heart.
2 - Vows she has made to herself.
3 - Not knowi...

So what exactly is good work? And what does good work look like AFTER the initial stages? Because it seems like some husbands rock that good work early on - and then… they are done?! Jason and I are both encouraging you guys to honestly assess: are the things we list happening in my / his recovery process? And if not - what might it look like to get back on track?

Some of the “good work” is objective (for instance, the formal disclosure or the amount of acting in). But a lot of this “good work” is less concr...

In this episode - we are diving in to a question that Shelley receives quite regularly - why did you stay? And were you / are you embarrassed that you chose to stay?

We start with talking about some of the reasons that can make it embarrassing to stay - for instance, in our culture - there is this notion that when a woman is cheated on, there must be something wrong with her / something she did. I loved it when Jason said - “no amount of bad marriage necessitates or drives infidelity or betrayal”. I’d like to pri...

It’s show time!  Here we go - Season #6 of Redemptive Living Radio is HERE.

On this first episode of the season, we are talking about relapses.  I realize this can be a super tender topic on all fronts.  

Here are some of the questions we answer:

1 - What is a relapse? - In some ways, a relapse is VERY clear and in some instances, it can seem a bit arbitrary.  I think what is key is to look at the primary, secondary and tertiary markers / threats  - see episode #23 - Primary, Secondary, and Tert...

Welcome back to the podcast!!!  We wanted to jump in and do a bonus podcast for you guys ahead of the release of Season #6 which will air in January, 2024.

While it really is a topic near and dear to Jason’s heart - it’s also a PSA for ALL of us as we prepare to be with extended family over Thanksgiving and Christmas.  The holidays can be really challenging - no matter what - and then throw in Family Systems (see below) + recovery and it’s a LOT.  The happy holidays can feel like the not so happy...

This week on RL Radio - NOT going back to the way it was

This is the final episode of Season #5. We had a hard time putting a pin in this Season - we had so much fun laughing with each other (and hopefully with you guys as you listened in). I also realize that we bring out the tears in a lot of our listeners, so for that - well, I’m grateful that you were able to grieve and connect and know that we love you all!

I wanted us to loop back to...

This week on RL Radio - Part Two of Moving Toward Divorce with Elizabeth

Picking up where we left off, I start out with a quick recap of what we discussed in part one and then we continue to dig into more of what it looks like to journey well including having hope. Elizabeth mentions this CS Lewis quote - “One day all the sad things will become untrue.” In other words - holding onto hope includes keeping our eyes on the end goal and NAMING those end goals. Elizabeth challenged the listeners to pause at some poin...

This week on RL Radio: Moving Toward Divorce - Part 1

We are delighted to have another conversation with Elizabeth from the RLW team! As you will hear, we recorded this episode in May on her, as she said, “would be” anniversary.  Oh, the timing. 

We didn’t know this when we recorded the episode, but our podcast producers shared recently that Elizabeth’s first time on our podcast (Episode #48, linked below) is the most listened to episode!  I am SO not surprised.

We received several questions from listeners asking for us to talk more about...