Second Life Leader

Randal Thames joins me to explore a question that’s becoming harder to ignore:

What happens when the skills, systems, and assumptions that built your success stop being enough for what comes next?

We started with a simple observation.

Most people think reinvention happens after disruption.

But the people who thrive rarely wait that long.

They see change coming before it becomes obvious.

Randal brings a unique perspective from decades of leadership, innovation, and helping organizations navigate technological shifts that are reshaping industries faster than mo...

Matthew Lamoureux joins the conversation to explore a different kind of leadership and life challenge—one that quietly shapes careers long before people realize it: the ability (and willingness) to reinvent yourself before disruption forces it on you.

We started with a simple tension.

Most people don’t fail because they’re not capable.

They fail because they stay too long in systems that are already changing beneath them.

Matthew brings decades of experience across consulting, investing, and venture capital in Silicon Valley, where reinvention isn’t a concept—it’s a req...

Damon Flowers joins me to unpack something most founders and operators only discover after repeated failure: the real battle isn’t in the market—it’s in the mind.

We started with a simple but uncomfortable pattern.

People don’t usually fail because they lack skills.

They fail because they can’t consistently use them when it matters.

Under pressure, fear shows up. Avoidance kicks in. Old identity patterns take over. And the business reflects it back almost immediately.

What looks like a strategy problem is often an inner a...

David Hanner joins me to unpack one of the most difficult transitions any company faces:

How do family businesses grow without losing the character that made them successful in the first place?

We started with a simple reality.

Growth creates complexity.

And in manufacturing businesses—especially family-owned companies—that complexity compounds fast. Inventory, cash flow, dealer networks, financing, operations, succession planning, modernization. Every decision affects five others downstream.

David brings perspective from inside a multi-generational manufacturing company producing heavy crushing equipment, where growth over the last several year...

Scott Bowman joins me for a conversation that starts in finance—but quickly turns into something much bigger.

We unpack the transition from high-pressure investment banking to leading mission-driven companies focused on sustainability, second chances, and long-term impact.

Scott spent years inside the world of constant travel, deal-making, capital raises, and relentless growth. The work was financially rewarding—but eventually the deeper question showed up:

“What is all of this actually for?”

That question ultimately led him away from the traditional “mercenary” side of finance and toward organizations trying to build som...

Lisa Leveille joins me to unpack a different kind of leadership challenge—one that quietly burns people out long before they realize it: the inability to create boundaries.

We started with a simple observation.

The more capable you are, the more responsibility people hand you.

And in leadership roles—especially in finance—that responsibility expands fast. HR, operations, procurement, reporting, strategy, hiring, vendor management. Eventually, everything starts flowing toward the same person.

That’s where the real problem begins.

Lisa brings perspective from years as a CFO in the c...

Cody Kopas joins me to unpack a different kind of pattern—one that doesn’t show up in headlines, but quietly shapes careers, families, and entire regions: why people leave the Midwest to grow… and then come back to build.

We started with a simple observation.

For decades, talent has flowed out of the Great Lakes region—into coastal cities, into capital-heavy ecosystems, into faster-moving opportunities. But many of those same people return years later, often at a completely different stage of life.

That gap—between where opportunity exists and where people ult...

Robin Goad joins me to unpack a different kind of failure—one that doesn’t show up on balance sheets, but shapes entire lives: the gap between what we’re told about success and how life actually works.

We started with a simple observation. There are entire industries built around preparing you for short phases of life—college, careers, even pregnancy. But almost nothing prepares you for the next 50–80 years of decisions, trade-offs, and consequences.

That gap is where most of the hard lessons live.

Robin brings perspective from over 30 years in corpora...

Enterprise systems leader Kevin Patrick joins me to unpack a problem most companies underestimate—and pay for heavily: employee disengagement.

We started with a stat that should stop any executive cold. Roughly 70% of ERP implementations fail to hit their goals. At the same time, employee disengagement globally accounts for an estimated $8.8 trillion in lost productivity every year.

Those two numbers aren’t separate problems.

They’re the same problem.

Kevin brings a unique perspective from years in enterprise resource planning and customer success, where failure isn’t just technical—it’s human...

Entrepreneur and marketing strategist Kalen Cotto joins me to unpack what really happens when life, business, and identity all start collapsing at once—and how you actually rebuild from there.

Most conversations about success focus on strategy, tactics, and growth curves. This one doesn’t.

Kalen and I dig into the uncomfortable middle—the part where things fall apart, confidence drops, income disappears, and you’re left trying to figure out what comes next.

From losing momentum in business and rebuilding from almost nothing, to navigating personal setbacks, reputation damage, and starting...

Founders, operators, and executives talk endlessly about strategy, data, and execution—but avoid the deeper forces shaping every decision they make.

In this episode of Second Life Leader, Doug Utberg sits down with Asha LaCount to explore what happens when leadership goes beyond surface-level EQ—and into the uncomfortable, often unspoken realities of energy, identity, and polarity.

This is not a typical leadership conversation.

Asha shares her journey from high-performing consultant to confronting personal health, relationship, and identity breakdowns—despite outward success. What followed was a deeper exploration into emotional intelligence, energy...

Founder and creative professional Preston Zeller joins me to unpack a conversation most workplaces avoid—but everyone eventually faces: grief, and how it reshapes the way we work, lead, and live.

This episode starts with a moment that changes everything. In early 2019, Preston lost his brother unexpectedly to a drug overdose. At the same time, he was navigating intense professional pressure during a major company merger, supporting a young family, and trying to function in environments that had no real framework for processing loss.

What follows isn’t a polished narrative—it’s a raw look at...

Commercial cleaning and AI don’t naturally belong in the same sentence. At least, not at first glance.

But that’s exactly why this conversation matters.

In this episode of Second Life Leader, Doug Utberg sits down with Adam Povlitz to break down what it actually looks like to build an AI-first mindset inside a very human, operationally messy business.

Because the future of AI in service industries isn’t robots replacing people—it’s systems supporting them where failure is inevitable.

What This Conversation Really Explores

Most businesses obsess ove...

Founder and PR strategist Bryce North joins me to break down a counterintuitive truth: the more you try to look like the smartest person in the room, the less people trust you—and the less business you close.

Most professionals believe authority comes from showcasing intelligence, credentials, and polished expertise. This episode challenges that assumption. Bryce unpacks why over-positioning yourself as “the expert” often creates distance instead of trust—and how relatability, humor, and authenticity outperform perfection in real-world business.

We explore the gap between attention and conversion, why viral content doesn’t equal revenue, and how mo...

Entrepreneur and author Tero Moliis joins me to explore a deceptively simple idea: if nothing lasts, what actually matters?

This conversation starts with Tero’s philosophy from his book Life Is a Sandcastle—the idea that everything we build eventually disappears. The question isn’t whether the wave comes. It’s what you do knowing that it will.

Most people interpret nihilism as hopeless: nothing matters, so why try? This episode flips that. If nothing is permanent, you’re free to build, experiment, fail, and rebuild—without attaching your identity to the outcome.

We unpack wh...

Capital gains taxes don’t usually sound like the beginning of a collapse story—but in this episode, they are.

Brett Swarts, founder of Capital Gains Tax Solutions, joins me to break down a hidden risk many investors and entrepreneurs overlook: getting trapped between tax exposure, debt, and timing. What starts as a smart growth strategy can quietly turn into a situation where selling isn’t viable, holding is dangerous, and doing nothing becomes the default.

We unpack the story of “Steve,” a real estate investor who built a $50M portfolio during the boom years—only to lose...

Entrepreneur and speaker Stephen Linton joins me to unpack what it really takes to climb out of the bottom—and why most people misunderstand what drives success in the first place.

It’s easy to look at successful people and assume luck, timing, or some hidden advantage. What you don’t see is the frustration, setbacks, and years of uncertainty behind the scenes. In this episode, Stephen and I break down the reality of rebuilding from nothing—financial struggle, career dead ends, and the mental shift required to turn things around.

Stephen shares his journey from ear...

Entrepreneur and leadership pioneer Robert White joins me to unpack what happens when success doesn’t just slow down—it collapses all at once.

Most business conversations celebrate scale, status, and wins.This episode goes in the opposite direction.

Robert White built one of the largest leadership training companies in the world, with operations across Asia and the U.S. He had the house, the jet, the global footprint, and what looked like complete freedom.

Then, in a 90-day span, it unraveled.

His top leadership team walked out overnight—taking people, client...

Call center entrepreneur Richard Blank joins Doug Utberg to unpack what it really takes to build—and survive—25 years in one of the most volatile industries in business.

This isn’t a clean success story. It’s a conversation about attrition, lost clients, rebuilding from zero, and making the decision to keep going when quitting would be easier.

Richard shares how he built a call center in Costa Rica from scratch, scaling through secondhand infrastructure, constant turnover, and unpredictable clients. From losing employees overnight to watching deals collapse, he explains why resilience in people-d...

Storytelling strategist and pitch expert Donna Griffith joins me to unpack how leaders, founders, and professionals can take control of their narrative during moments of chaos—and why the ability to rewrite your story may be the most valuable skill in the AI era.

Most conversations about disruption focus on technology. This one focuses on something more human: how people interpret change, adapt to it, and reposition themselves when the world shifts underneath them.

Donna has spent over two decades helping entrepreneurs, executives, and startup founders transform raw information—data, facts, features, and technical language—into c...

Psychologist and relationship specialist Dr. Sage Breslin joins me to unpack a question many successful people quietly ask themselves: Why do I keep attracting the same destructive personalities?

Most conversations about narcissistic relationships focus on blaming the narcissist or shaming the person who stayed. This episode does neither.

Dr. Breslin and I walk through the deeper dynamics behind what many people describe as the “narcissist magnet” phenomenon — the repeated pattern of high-achieving, empathetic, capable individuals finding themselves in relationships with manipulative or emotionally exploitative partners.

From love-bombing and emotional mirroring to gaslighting and depend...

Marine veteran and recruiting entrepreneur Bob Howard joins me to unpack a simple but brutal metaphor: “If you get dead, walk it off.”

It’s a line Marines joke about with each other — part dark humor, part survival mindset. But it’s also an accurate description of what career transitions often feel like.

In this conversation, Bob and I walk through the realities behind one of the most misunderstood roles in the military: Marine Corps recruiting. On the surface, recruiters look polished and professional. Behind the scenes, the job is a relentless sales environment with uncompromi...

Healthcare executive and leadership author Jim Carlo joins me to unpack a deceptively simple idea: leadership isn’t granted by a title — it’s earned through trust.

In many organizations, the path to management still looks the same. A strong individual contributor performs well, gets promoted, and suddenly finds themselves responsible for leading people without any real preparation for what leadership actually requires.

This conversation explores what happens in that transition.

Jim Carlo reflects on 35+ years in the healthcare industry, including lessons from his earliest leadership roles where, by his own admission, he made m...

Renan Delonier joins me to unpack what happens when you stop talking about AI as a buzzword—and start putting it into real factories with real consequences.

Most conversations about artificial intelligence live in demos and slide decks. This one lives in production environments, broken trust, failed deployments, and hard-earned iteration.

Renan is the CEO and co-founder of OSS Ventures, a venture studio that co-builds software companies exclusively for factories. After visiting more than 800 industrial sites and launching 22 companies inside 3,000 factories, he’s developed a structured approach to identifying operational pain—and solving it with softwa...

Executive producer and creative entrepreneur Diane Strand joins me to unpack a question most operators overlook: What if the arts teach the exact skills leaders need to survive volatility?

We talk about discipline, rejection, resilience, visibility, and why creatives may be better prepared for uncertainty than most executives realize. From auditions and rehearsals to launching seven- and eight-figure ventures, Diane makes the case that the arts don’t just produce performers—they produce entrepreneurs.

Most corporate environments reward stability and caution. The arts reward iteration, discomfort, and persistence. That tension is the heart of this conv...

Wellness entrepreneur and former Mr. America Dr. Chris Zaino joins me to unpack what happens when your body collapses—and how that crisis can become the catalyst for a completely different life.

At 23, Chris had just won Mr. America. Magazine covers. A fitness career taking off. His identity was built on physical strength and appearance.

Then he was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Autoimmune. Incurable. Terminal. Surgery scheduled. Colon removal likely. No guarantee of surviving the procedure. No guarantee of having children.

Within months, he lost 60 pounds and hit public rock bottom.

Th...

BrainChip CEO Sean Hehir joins me to unpack where artificial intelligence is actually headed—and why the dominant “everything in the data center” narrative is incomplete.

Most AI conversations fixate on massive models, GPU farms, and trillion-dollar infrastructure bets. This episode shifts the frame. Sean and I explore the structural reality that power consumption, latency, and grid constraints are forcing AI to decentralize—and what that means for founders, engineers, and the broader economy.

Sean explains how neuromorphic computing and ultra-low-power silicon enable AI inference outside the data center—inside wearables, medical devices, drones, manufacturing systems, a...

Investor and entrepreneur Kevin Steuer joins me to examine whether Main Street investors can compete in a market dominated by algorithms—and whether competing is even the right goal.

Most investing conversations reduce themselves to slogans: “Just buy index funds” or “Learn to trade like the pros.” This episode does neither. Kevin and I unpack the uncomfortable reality that nearly 90% of U.S. equity volume is now algorithmic—and what that means for individuals trying to generate alpha in a machine-driven market.

Kevin shares how he acquired Stock TA, a technical analysis platform that had previously b...

Entrepreneur and EOS implementer Sid Joshnani joins me to unpack what really happens when a business grows fast, becomes dangerously dependent on one client, and nearly collapses under its own fragility.

Most business stories skip the middle — the sleepless payroll nights, the rejected credit cards, the clients who stretch payments while you carry 35 salaries on your back. This episode doesn’t.

Sid shares how his IT services company grew to $3 million in revenue — with one client representing 75% of it — and how that concentration nearly pushed him into bankruptcy. We walk through the tension of chasi...

Patent attorney and former chemist Josh Goldberg joins me to unpack how intellectual property strategy determines whether innovation gets funded—or quietly dies.

Most startup conversations focus on product, growth, and pitch decks. This episode focuses on what founders often ignore until it’s too late: protection. Josh shares why he left drug formulation chemistry to go to law school, and how he now helps innovators—particularly in green tech and scientific industries—turn inventions into defensible assets.

We walk through the uncomfortable reality that patents don’t let you do anything. They let you st...

Jazz musician and humanitarian Rick DellaRatta joins me for a different kind of conversation — one that steps outside traditional business failure narratives and into culture, conflict, and human consciousness.

Rick is the founder of Jazz for Peace, a movement that began as a poem written on the morning of 9/11 while he watched the attacks unfold from less than a quarter mile away. That moment launched what he describes as his “second life” — blending music, philanthropy, and diplomacy in ways that eventually led to a United Nations concert featuring Israeli, Palestinian, and American musicians performing together for peace.

Executive leader and transformation strategist Victoria Pelletier joins me to talk about what happens when success stops feeling like success — and why growth requires stepping into discomfort intentionally.

Most career narratives celebrate upward mobility, titles, and financial wins. This episode looks underneath that surface. Victoria and I unpack the transition from chasing validation and status to building a life anchored in meaning, resilience, and conscious choice.

Victoria shares how a traumatic childhood, adoption, and early exposure to scarcity drove her relentless pursuit of achievement. Becoming an executive at 24, climbing the corporate ladder, accumulating status and ma...

Speaker, author, and entrepreneur Danny Brassell joins me to unpack what happens when collapse isn’t theoretical — it’s personal.

Most conversations about success start at the breakthrough. This one starts at the bottom.

After falling victim to a real estate scam that wiped him out financially, Danny had two options: define himself by the loss or rebuild from it. What followed wasn’t a cinematic overnight comeback. It was constraint, recalibration, and a deliberate decision not to declare bankruptcy — paired with an aggressive income target that forced reinvention.

During one of the worst econ...

Leadership advisor and author Greg Morley joins me to unpack what it actually takes to rebound from setbacks—and why resilience isn’t an individual trait as much as a relational one.

Most conversations about adversity focus on grit, mindset, or personal toughness. This episode doesn’t. Greg and I explore what happens after layoffs, career pivots, health crises, and identity shifts—and why the people who rally fastest are rarely the ones who go it alone.

Drawing from over 30 years in global HR leadership, and from interviews conducted for his upcoming book Rally, Greg shares l...

Physician, healthcare entrepreneur, and founder Dr. Vivek Aranki joins me to unpack why most real success is built through failure—and why the willingness to iterate beats chasing innovation for its own sake.

Most business conversations treat failure as something to avoid, minimize, or hide. This episode reframes it as a required feedback loop. Vivek and I explore how meaningful progress—especially in regulated, high-stakes industries—comes from repeated trial, error, and disciplined correction.

Vivek shares his transition from practicing physician to building one of Australia’s largest non-corporate cosmetic medicine groups, now spanning 20 clinics nationwi...

After losing his business in the 2008 financial collapse, Doug Thorpe didn’t pivot to another startup or chase the next trend. He went bankrupt — and then built a nonprofit to help hundreds of people find jobs in one of the worst labor markets in modern history.

In this episode of Second Life Leader, Doug Thorpe joins Doug Utberg to unpack what actually happens after economic collapse — personally, professionally, and psychologically. From running a mortgage-services company wiped out in a 45-day window to navigating unemployment, identity loss, and reinvention, this conversation strips away the sanitized version of resilience.

T...

Entrepreneur, author, and former telecom executive Roy Osing joins me to talk about what it really means to survive getting the s**t kicked out of you—and why meaningful differentiation is the only durable way back.

Most business conversations focus on growth tactics or recovery platitudes. This episode doesn’t. Roy and I walk through the reality of being demoted, sidelined, and underestimated—then rebuilding leverage not through ego or exits, but through performance, patience, and strategic clarity.

Roy shares how he helped grow an early-stage data and internet company to over a billion dollar...

Entrepreneur and martial arts instructor Gary Engels joins me to unpack what it really means to rebuild when everything is stripped away—and why modern resilience requires more than grit.

Most stories about reinvention soften the edges. This episode doesn’t. Gary and I walk through what happens when loss is not metaphorical but literal: a house fire that destroyed everything he owned while raising three children under five, leaving him with nothing but insurance paperwork, a hotel room, and the responsibility to keep going.

Gary shares how that moment forced a recalibration of r...

Healthcare innovator Neal Shah joins me to unpack how artificial intelligence is being used against patients—and how it can be used to fight back.

Most conversations about AI in healthcare focus on efficiency, cost savings, or shiny tools. This episode goes deeper. Neal Shah and I examine how insurers have quietly weaponized AI to deny care at scale—and why patients are losing not because they’re wrong, but because the system is asymmetrically stacked against them.

Neal shares how caregiving for his grandfather with dementia and his wife through years of cancer exposed the re...

Executive coach Tracy Meyer joins me for a conversation most leadership shows avoid: what happens when life doesn’t politely wait for your business calendar.

After losing her father shortly before our originally scheduled recording, Tracy and I talk openly about grief, disruption, and how leaders navigate loss without retreating into performance, denial, or toxic professionalism. This episode isn’t about Instagram resilience or “powering through.” It’s about what loss actually does to people—and how it reshapes priorities, identity, presence, and leadership capacity.

We explore why disruption often exposes the false stability we cling to, ho...