Singing Teachers Talk

40 Episodes
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By: BAST Training

Hosted by BAST Training expect interviews and conversations to inspire and inform singing teachers and singers who are ready to teach. ABOUT BAST TRAINING We are here to help singers gain the knowledge, skills, understanding and qualifications required to be a great singing teacher. We can help you whether you are getting started or just have some knowledge gaps to fill.Start with the Foundition course or level up into a Level 5 qualification.https://basttraining.com | info@basttraining.com | FB & IG @basttraining

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Ep.276 Inside a Singer's Larynx: Live Laryngeal Scoping With Dr Jennifer Rodney
Yesterday at 9:00 PM

What’s really happening inside the larynx when we sing? In this fascinating episode, Alexa is joined by laryngologist and singer Dr Jennifer Rodney - aka Singing Surgeon MD - for a rare look inside the voice in action. From vocal registers and tension to vibrato, breathiness, vocal fry and more, Jennifer brings vocal anatomy to life - and even scopes herself live to show us what’s happening in real time. Whether you’re a singer, voice teacher or simply fascinated by how the voice works, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. Listen to the full...


Ep.275 Starting the New Academic Year on the Right Note with Alexa Terry
09/01/2026

As September rolls around and a new academic year begins, Alexa reflects on what it means to return to singing, teaching and learning with a fresh perspective. She shares some gentle reminders for singers and singing teachers alike about progress, curiosity, collaboration and being a little kinder to ourselves and each other along the way. 

Whether you’re heading back into the studio, starting something completely new, or simply wondering what you want to take into the new academic year ahead, this episode is an encouraging listen to help you step into September feeling inspired, grounded and rea...


Ep.274 The Singer As An Athlete: A Useful Metaphor or a Limiting One? with Line Hilton
08/25/2026

In this episode, Alexa and Line take a closer look at the familiar idea of the singer as a ‘vocal athlete’. Drawing on examples from across the performing arts, they explore what the comparison can teach us about the demands placed on singers, and where it might not tell the whole story. From training and performance to vocal health and wellbeing, this conversation invites us to think differently about what singers ask of their voices and bodies, and how we can better support them along the way. 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST? 

0:24 When did you...


Ep.273 How to Use Repertoire to Build Vocal Technique with Alexa Terry
08/19/2026

What if the ‘right’ song could help bridge the gap between vocal exercises and repertoire? In this episode, Alexa explores how snippets of songs can become useful technical stepping stones. Discover how to analyse repertoire for its vocal demands, identify opportunities for skill-building, and weave them into your lessons so that the singer is always ‘singing.’  

 

About the presenter HERE

 

RELEVANT MENTIONS & LINKS 

Singing Teachers Talk - Ep.205 10 Songs to Inspire Your Singing Lessons 

Singing Teachers Talk - Ep.210 10 Songs to Celebrate Pride in Your Studio 


Ep.272 Rethinking How We Teach Breathing for Singing with Barbara Tanze and Flexiflow
08/12/2026

What do we really know about breathing for singing? Breathing specialist Barbara Tanze returns to explore the evolving science of airflow and pressure regulation in the singing voice. We discuss what research tells us about the diaphragm and respiratory muscles, and why what singers feel may not reflect what is actually happening physiologically. Barbara also introduces the Flexiflow, a tool that gives singers immediate feedback on airflow and pressure, helping them explore breath coordination without complicated anatomical instructions. Along the way, we question what “breath support” really means, whether breath should always come first in vocal training, and how a mo...


Ep.271 Singer & the Self: Rethinking Singing Teacher CPD with Becky Gilhespie
08/05/2026

In this episode, Alexa shares her experience of attending the very first Singer & the Self Singing Teacher CPD Holiday in Slovenia before sitting down with organiser Becky Gillespie to discuss how the event came to life. From voice science, business and wellbeing to spa days, cultural adventures and meaningful conversations, they explore why combining professional development with a holiday created such a unique and inspiring experience for singing teachers. If you've ever wondered what a singing teacher CPD holiday is really like—or whether it's worth it—this episode takes you behind the scenes.


Abou...


Ep.270 How to Help Singers Overcome Fear and Build Confidence with Linor Oren
07/28/2026

What happens when a singer desperately wants to sing, but fear, self-doubt and past criticism keep getting in the way? In this episode, Alexa is joined by vocal coach and Sing Anyway author - Linor Oren, to explore singing confidence, stage fright and mindset, questioning what happens when we stop chasing a ‘good’ sound and start exploring what the voice can actually do? Plus, before the conversation begins, Alexa shares her honest review of Sing Anyway and reflects on some of the book’s key ideas, ready for your bookshelves.  

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PO...


Ep.269 How to Help Singers Learn Faster and Retain More with Noa Kageyama
07/21/2026

In this fascinating conversation, performance psychologist Noa Kageyama explores what learning science really tells us about effective practice, mindful learning, and why repetition alone isn't enough. Discover practical, research-backed strategies that can transform the way you plan lessons, deliver them, and help singers structure practice more efficiently, giving you and them fresh ideas to reach those goals.  

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

1:30 What are elite institutions actually looking for? 

2:49 Reflection: The shift in musicians needs/desires  

6:28 Mindful Vs Mindless learning 

14:26 Learning in the beginner...


Ep.268 What Happens When You Fall Out of Love with Performing? with Grace Hancock
07/14/2026

Alexa is joined by singer, songwriter and vocal coach Grace Hancock to explore the relationship between music and craft. Together, they have honest conversations about the moments when making music hasn’t felt good and when it has stopped being joyful for them. They discuss burn out, self-worth, comparison and perfectionism, and how singers can reconnect with their craft in a healthier, more authentic way. As ever, we’re keeping it real on the Singing Teachers Talk podcast.  

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

0:55 Memories of travelling as a performer  

4:06...


Ep.267 Acting Through Song: Practical Tools for Singing Teachers with Molly Marie Walsh
07/07/2026

What makes a performance truly believable? In this episode, Alexa is joined by fellow BAST teammate Molly Walsh to explore acting through song and the power of gesture mapping. Together they unpack practical acting techniques that help singers communicate emotion authentically, make purposeful physical choices, and create performances that are both vocally sustainable and dramatically compelling. From Meisner and SAVI techniques to storytelling and practical teaching strategies, this episode is packed with insights for singing teachers, vocal coaches, performers, and musical theatre students looking to bring any song to life. 

 

WHAT’S IN T...


Ep.266 8 Tips to Make Belt More Impressive with Alexa Terry
06/30/2026

Want a more impressive belt? Before you search for another vocal exercise, you might want to question what you think makes great belting in the first place. In this episode, Alexa Terry shares eight thought-provoking ideas - some that might surprise you. 

 

About the presenter HERE

 

RELEVANT MENTIONS & LINKS 

Amanda Flynn 

Voice Study Centre 

Singing Teachers Talk - Ep.133 Mastering Belt in Musical Theatre  

Emily Kristen Morris 

Singing Teacher’s Talk - Ep.200 The Secret to Powerful Belting and Seamless M...


Ep.265 Why Singers Get Jaw Tension (And What Actually Helps) with Physiotherapist Emer Tully
06/24/2026

In this episode, Alexa is joined once again by physiotherapist Emer Tully to explore the jaw. They unpack why jaw tension isn't always about the jaw itself, how posture, breathing, hypermobility and stress all play a role, and what singers and teachers can do to improve jaw health and function. Whether you struggle with clenching, clicking, or simply want to better understand the biomechanics behind a free and efficient voice, this conversation is packed with practical insights you'll be able to apply straight away. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

2:11 How d...


Ep.264 Gender Equality in the Music Industry: Where Are We Now? with Vick Bain
06/16/2026

In this episode, Alexa is joined by researcher, musician and founder of The F-List, Vick Bain, for an important conversation about gender equality in the UK music industry. Drawing on her PhD research and years of experience, Vick explores the barriers that women and gender-diverse musicians continue to face, from pay gaps and career progression to representation, discrimination and the realities of building a sustainable career in music. It's a thought-provoking discussion that challenges assumptions, shares the evidence behind the headlines, and asks what role we can play in creating a more inclusive future for the artists we teach...


Ep.263 The Creative Juggle: Singer, Songwriter and Teacher with India Bourne
06/10/2026

This week, Alexa chats with artist, songwriter, choir leader, and vocal coach India Bourne about life beyond the stage. From touring the world with Ben Howard to building a thriving teaching career, India shares how completing the BAST Foundation Course deepened her understanding of the voice, transformed her songwriting, and enriched her work with singers. She also opens up about balancing creativity, teaching, and motherhood, revealing how life as a mum has shaped her artistry, sharpened her instincts, and helped her to continue creating a sustainable, fulfilling career in music. 

 

WHAT’S IN T...


Ep.262 Breaking Down Barriers: Making Arts Education Accessible for All with RABBLE Theatre
06/03/2026

What happens when arts education becomes truly accessible? In this inspiring episode, Alexa speaks with Georgina from RABBLE Theatre about breaking down barriers to participation, building confidence through performance, and creating meaningful pathways for young people and adults in the arts. From nurturing performers to supporting wellbeing, creativity, and community engagement, this conversation is packed with insights for singing teachers, drama educators, arts leaders, and anyone passionate about the transformative power of creative education. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

3:25 What is RABBLE Theatre?  

5:00 The RABBLE mission 

7:27...


Ep.261 Managing Performance Nerves: Tools For Singers & Singing Teachers with Laura Dumbleton
05/26/2026

Why do performers experience stage fright, even when they love being on stage? In this episode, voice coach and breathwork teacher Laura Dumbleton joins Alexa to unpack performance anxiety, fight-or-flight responses, and practical tools to manage nerves before, during and after singing or public speaking. Expect honest stories, functional techniques, confidence strategies, and advice for singers, performers and vocal coaches navigating stage fright. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

2:39 What is stage fright?  

4:17 Why might a singer experience stage fright?  

5:55 Why has performing not evolved to become...


Ep.260 The Return of In-Person Training: Our Singing Teacher Intensive in Manchester with Line Hilton
05/20/2026

What happens when singing teachers step away from screens and come together in one room? In this episode, Line Hilton shares why BAST is bringing back live, in-person singing teacher training with a special intensive weekend in Manchester, exploring the power of community, CPD, vocal pedagogy, networking, and hands-on learning. Discover who the event is for, what topics will be covered, and why investing in your development as a singing teacher could transform both your confidence and your teaching. Plus, find out how to get your tickets, access an exclusive podcast discount, and join us on 20–21 June. 

 


Ep.259 Can You Teach Singing Without Demonstrating? with Line Hilton
05/13/2026

How important is it that the singing teacher can actually demonstrate the sound they are asking of the singer? This week, Line and Alexa are unpacking the hidden realities behind vocal demonstration, and why giving a demo isn’t always that simple. From physiology and hormones to stamina preservation, this conversation might just make you rethink the expectations we place on ourselves as singing teachers, whilst also recognising the very real importance of keeping our own voices ready.  

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST? 

2:33 How important is it for a singing teacher to demonstrate?  

4...


Ep.258 10 Plus ‘Legit’ Songs for Musical Theatre Singers with Alexa Terry
05/05/2026

In this episode, Alexa dives into the often-misunderstood world of legit musical theatre singing, unpacking what the style really means, why so many performers feel lost when approaching it, and how teachers can guide singers through the journey with confidence. From Golden Age roots to contemporary legit crossovers, she explores key vocal characteristics, common challenges, and practical repertoire suggestions to help singers build versatility without overwhelm. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST 

0:42 Defining ‘legit’ 

4:16 Common technical challenges  

5:44 10+ ‘legit’ song ideas 

 

About the presenter HERE


Ep.257 Inside the Voice Clinic: Common Vocal Problems & What Happens Next with ENT Mr Nicholas Gibbins
04/29/2026

What are the most common vocal issues singers actually face, and how can we prevent them without falling into the trap of overthinking every tiny symptom? In this engaging and refreshingly honest chat, ENT voice specialist Nick Gibbins breaks down the patterns he sees in clinic, alongside practical insights on building vocal stamina and injury prevention. The conversation tackles what can actually be detected via laryngostroboscopy, reflux, hypermobility, rehabilitation, and Nick also tackles some questions from you, the listeners. Expect expert knowledge, myth-busting, and plenty of down-to-earth, relatable discussion that every singer and teacher will benefit from hearing.

<...


Ep.256 The Neuroscience of Singing: What the Singer's Brain Needs with Heidi Moss Erickson
04/21/2026

A fascinating deep dive into what really happens inside the singer’s brain, this episode explores the surprising intersection of neuroscience, pedagogy, and creativity. Joined by renowned voice expert Heidi Moss Erickson, the conversation unpacks how singing is both incredibly complex and beautifully instinctive revealing why play, imagination, and even a bit of “crazy” can unlock better vocal performance. This episode challenges singers and teachers alike to embrace a more brain-friendly, joyful approach to vocal training.

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?

4:19 Is singing really that complex?

7:58 Nature Vs. Nuture

10...


Ep.255 ‘Stop Faking It! Sound’ Book Review with Alexa Terry
04/15/2026

Get the honest lowdown before you buy in this fun, insightful review episode of Stop Faking It! Sound. Alexa breaks down whether this book really delivers for singing teachers and vocal coaches, without the usual dry, sleep-inducing science. Along the way, Alexa unpacks key concepts in a way that actually sticks, complete with stories and real-world examples. If you’ve ever felt intimidated by sound science or wondered which resources are truly worth your time and money, this episode will help you decide with confidence. 

 

About the presenter HERE

 

RELEVANT MENTI...


Ep.254 Lessons Learned in the First Year of Teaching Singing with Mark Lowman
04/07/2026

Ever wondered what really happens in that all-important first year of teaching? The leap from passion to profession, from ‘maybe one day’ to ‘this is it’ - it’s rarely a straight line. In today’s episode, we’re diving into the journey of Mark Lowman - from a career in hospitality and travel to stepping into life as a vocal coach. What does it take to start from scratch, build a studio, and back yourself when imposter syndrome creeps in? This is an honest look at that first year: the turning points, the practical steps, and the mindset shifts that ma...


Ep.253 The S-Word: Why It's Time to Rethink 'Support' in Singing Teaching with Line Hilton
04/01/2026

Line Hilton hosts the Singing Teachers Talk podcast and challenges the continued, vague use of “support” and appoggio in breath management teaching, arguing that research shows no single correct breathing strategy among elite singers and that singers often misidentify what their respiratory muscles are doing. She explains how singing uses much larger lung-volume ranges than speech, often requiring controlled braking against passive recoil rather than pushing more air, and notes that trained singers don’t have bigger lungs—just better coordination. Drawing on sources including Miller, McCoy, Titze, Sundberg, and EMG research, she reframes “support” as task-specific breath management shaped by ge...


Ep.252 Cross-Training Through a Latin American Lens: A Modern Vocal Pedagogy with Dr Luciano SimÔes
03/25/2026

This week, Alexa is joined by Dr Luciano SimÔes to explore cross-training as a modern vocal pedagogy through a Latin American lens, unpacking how singers can develop flexibility, resilience, and stylistic authenticity across different genres. Drawing on the rich hybridity of Latin American music Luciano shares how cross-training equips singers to navigate diverse vocal demands with both technical freedom and cultural awareness. This conversation challenges the idea of fixed vocal identities, inviting teachers and singers alike to embrace versatility, curiosity, and the vibrant diversity of global vocal styles. 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  <...


Ep.251 10 Plus Songs for Tween Girls with Alexa Terry
03/18/2026

In this episode, Alexa explores how to choose repertoire that sits comfortably within developing ‘tween’ voices while still feeling relevant and exciting for young singers today. From musical theatre gems to contemporary chart hits, the episode offers a thoughtfully curated selection of songs alongside practical considerations around vocal range, lyrical appropriateness, and the ever-evolving cultural world of 9–12 year olds—helping teachers feel a little more in touch (and maybe even a little bit cooler) in the process. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST 

1:10 Defining ‘tween’ 

2:24 Considerations for the tween girl  

5:35 10+ songs...


Ep.250 Building a Musical Theatre Rep Folder That Actually Works with Grace Galloway
03/11/2026

In this episode, Alexa is joined by performer and vocal coach Grace Galloway, fresh from her run in Ride the Cyclone in London. Together they dive into one of the biggest questions for musical theatre performers: how to build a rep folder that actually works in the audition room. Grace shares practical advice on choosing songs you can rely on “come rain or shine,” shaping material to fit different auditions, and finding repertoire that highlights your unique selling points as a performer. From audition stages to song cuts and the myth of the “perfect” choice, this episode is packed with hon...


Ep. 249 Why Your Singing Studio Isn’t Growing (And What to Do About It) with Meta Ads Strategist Danny Young
03/04/2026

Do you have a stellar service or a product you truly believe in
 but you’re just not attracting the right people? In this episode Meta Ads strategist Danny Young breaks down how advertising really works in 2026 — and why understanding strategy and buyer psychology matters more than simply “running ads.” From navigating today’s trust recession to building a powerful Connect & Convert Ecosystem, he shares how to turn cold audiences into warm, ready-to-buy clients. You’ll hear how a simple shift in messaging helped one coach scale from six to seven figures, why most business owners waste budget on the wrong obje...


Ep.248 Thyroid Tilt Under the Microscope: Perception vs Physiology with Dr Mathias Aaen
02/25/2026

What’s really happening inside the larynx when we ‘tilt?’ In this episode, Alexa is joined by voice researcher Dr Mathias Aaen to unpack the science behind thyroid tilt - exploring what his latest studies reveal about pitch, vocal fold lengthening, and healthy singing. The pair cut through common misconceptions, translate research into studio-ready language, and ask the big question: are our teaching prompts actually doing what we think they are? If you love practical pedagogy grounded in solid science, this one’s for you. 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

2:58 What is ti...


Ep.247 The 5-Day Challenge: Clarity, Confidence, and Getting Started as a Singing Teacher with Line Hilton
02/18/2026

What if you’re not stuck because you don’t know enough, but because you think you should know everything before you begin? If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by where to start, unsure how to market yourself, or quietly battling imposter syndrome, this episode is for you. We’re exploring why so many singers hesitate to step into teaching — and how a simple 5-Day Challenge might be the reset that brings clarity, confidence, and momentum. Could five focused days change everything? 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST? 

0:52 The things that overwhelm us in singing...


Ep.246 Inside TV Drama Voice Work: Coaching Matt Smith, with Candi Underwood
02/11/2026

How does a singing teacher land a vocal coaching job on a TV drama? In this episode, Alexa is joined by vocal coach, performer and returning guest - Candi Underwood, who shares her experience coaching Matt Smith for the Sky Atlantic adaptation of The Death of Bunny Munro, based on the novel by Nick Cave. They explore how the opportunity came about, what was required on set, and which skills singing teachers already have that translate directly into TV coaching work. Perfect listening for singing teachers curious about taking their work beyond the studio and onto screen.

<...


Ep.245 Technique Meets Artistry: Working with Contemporary Singers with Juliet Russell
02/04/2026

Alexa is joined by vocal performance coach Juliet Russell for a rich conversation about identity, artistry, and contemporary vocal training. Juliet shares how she helps singers identify and trust what makes them unique, evolve their voices alongside life and experience, and connect more deeply with audiences — drawing on her work across major TV formats as well as her one-to-one coaching with artists. We explore how to make vocal exercises more musical and stylistically relevant, how voice science can be translated into practical studio tools, and what Juliet sees as key pillars of contemporary vocal training for singing teachers today. Th...


Ep.244 10 Ways to Help a Singer with Tempo with Alexa Terry
01/28/2026

In this episode, Alexa explores tempo and timekeeping in the voice studio — and why struggling with tempo might not be “just a rhythm problem.” If you find yourself working with a singer who rushes, drags, freezes, or falls apart this episode offers reassurance, perspective, and plenty of practical takeaways — all wrapped up in a very relatable Sunday afternoon analogy.  

 

About the presenter HERE

 

RELEVANT MENTIONS & LINKS 

Karaoke Version 

 

ABOUT THE GUEST 

Alexa runs a singing tuition practice in the South of Englan...


Ep.243 House Talent Agency Can Open New Possibilities in Your Singing Studio with Josephine Lancuba
01/21/2026

What if your singing studio could open doors to the industry, too? In this episode, Alexa is joined by talent agent and educator Josephine Lancuba, founder of Studio Talent Collective, to lift the curtain on in-house talent agencies. From creating real audition opportunities for your singers to boosting retention, revenue, and industry credibility, Josephine breaks down how singing teachers can step confidently into talent management. If you’ve ever wondered how to better support your students beyond the studio, this conversation might just have the answer.  

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

1...


Ep.242 Understanding Motor Learning: How It Can Help Us Give Better Singing Lessons with Dr Jenevora Williams
01/14/2026

To kick off the 2026 season, Alexa and Jenevora Williams dive into the fascinating world of motor learning and what it really means for singing and teaching singing. From walking toddlers and chocolate metaphors to the neuroscience behind skill acquisition, the conversation unpacks why learning to sing is far more complex—and far more human—than we often assume. Together they explore implicit versus explicit learning, internal versus external focus, imagination, metaphor, and the role of trust, play, and mistake-making in vocal development. A thoughtful, wide-ranging discussion that invites singing teachers to simplify their language, deepen their listening, and give both...


Ep.241 Is Your Pelvic Floor Affecting Your Voice? A Deep Dive with Physiotherapist Emer Tully
12/17/2025

We’re wrapping up 2025 with a conversation that will change the way you think about the voice forever. Physiotherapist Emer Tully from Neuro Tour joins us to unravel the vital — and often underestimated — role of the pelvic floor in singing. From breathing mechanics to alignment, from recognising tightness vs. weakness, to understanding why singers, dancers, teachers and performers of all kinds should care about this powerhouse of stability, this episode is packed with practical insights and surprising - the perfect finale to a year of rich conversations.  

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?

0:38 Th...


Ep.240 Inside the Master’s Degree: How Postgraduate Study Can Transform Your Teaching & Career with Kaya Herstad-Carney
12/10/2025

Thinking about taking your teaching to the next level, diving deeper into your specialist interests, or even writing a degree of your own? In this episode of Singing Teachers Talk, Alexa is joined by educator, performer, and MA creator Kaya Herstad-Carney, who pulls back the curtain on what a master’s degree in the performing arts really offers. From choosing the right pathway and understanding learning outcomes to balancing study with real life, Kaya shares how her own master’s shaped her career, the unexpected opportunities it opened, and what she’s learned from writing not one but two MA pro...


Ep.239 10 Common Barriers to Being a Singing Teacher. And How to Overcome Them with Line Hilton
12/03/2025

Thinking about becoming a singing teacher but not sure what’s holding you back? In this episode, Alexa and Line break down the most common barriers aspiring singing teachers face. Learn how to get started with what you already know, build confidence step by step, choose the right training, and grow your teaching practice with clarity and purpose. If you’re ready to take the next step in your singing teaching journey, this conversation will help you move forward with confidence. 

 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST? 

0:31 How did Line become a singing t...


Ep.238 10 Festive Songs for Your Studio with Alexa Terry
11/26/2025

Alexa Terry unwraps ten fresh, fun, and fabulously festive Christmas songs to help singing teachers bring new sparkle into their studios, offering a mix of musical theatre treasures, modern pop tunes, heartfelt ballads, and powerful rock renditions that give both students and teachers a welcome break from the usual overplayed holiday hits. With vocal range guidance, technical teaching opportunities, and stylistic notes for each song this episode provides a studio-ready repertoire list designed to keep spirits high and festive performances inspired throughout the busy holiday season. 

 

About the presenter HERE

 

REL...


Ep.237 Beyond the Vocal Tract: How the Brain Shapes What We Hear with Ian Howell
11/19/2025

This week, Alexa chats with the brilliant Ian Howell to explore how we really hear the singers we work with. From psychoacoustics and functional listening to timbre, bias and intention, Ian unpacks the hidden processes behind vocal perception—and how understanding them can transform the way we teach. A deep, fascinating conversation for any singing teacher wanting sharper ears and smarter tools. 

WHAT’S IN THIS PODCAST?  

1:53 What is psychoacoustics?

5:28 How is sound perceived by us?

12:38 What impacts the way we perceive sound?

20:46 Separating function from b...